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Oh I agree, Milah definitely did not have a good first impression on the audience. I’m shocked when I across posts from people who sympathize with her and often times, what those people have to say, are fascinating reads. It does make me sympathize with Milah a little more but I’m definitely not a pro-Milah fan.
Rumple’s my favorite and Hook’s my favorite too. I don’t think Hook was unjustified for going after Rumple, especially after Rumple murdered his love and took his hand. That’s pretty heavy damage right there that warrants some kind of retribution. But the purpose of Milah again, was to explain the rivalry between both men and what drives Hook to vengeance.
[adrotate group="5"]I would love to see Milah fleshed out more. Sadly, I doubt she will be back. I remember Bobby C. saying that Rachel (the actress) got the most hate mail.
That blogger made a good point that I never noticed. Rumple never apologizes to Milah for destroying their lives and marriage. Yet he makes Milah apologize to him.
What is sad is that she is being condemned for abandoning her son, but she left him with a loving parent. Yet Rumple abandoned Bae and left Bae alone and defenseless to hang onto his power. I don’t understand how Rumple being abandoned by Malcolm explains or in a way excuses what he did to Bae or why he wouldn’t move for a fresh start with Milah.
I like Rumple as entertainment. He’s a great character fun to watch and his motivations are understandable, meaning you understand what drives and can see things from his point of view. BUT he is an extremely selfish man. Everything is about him. I think the spinsters did him a disservice raising him to believe that he was a superspecial snowflake that everyone’s life should revolve around his “pain” and needs, without any consideration to others. Maybe it was genetic. Malcolm was similar.
Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.
Rumple projects his anger on people. He’s angry with Milah for abandoning Bae when actually, he’s angry with himself for letting go of Bae’s hand at the portal. I look at that scene on Hook’s ship when he confronts Milah and Hook and it’s all about projecting his anger. Rumple knows he made a mistake but letting go of Bae’s hand but at that point in time, he wasn’t going to openly admit it so he blames his shortcomings on other people.
I know someone like this in real life.
I like Rumple as entertainment. He’s a great character fun to watch and his motivations are understandable, meaning you understand what drives and can see things from his point of view. BUT he is an extremely selfish man. Everything is about him. I think the spinsters did him a disservice raising him to believe that he was a superspecial snowflake that everyone’s life should revolve around his “pain” and needs, without any consideration to others. Maybe it was genetic. Malcolm was similar.
Definitely agree, @sweetgrass! I love Rumple – when he’s in full on Dark One mode. But I don’t care for Mr. Gold. And I don’t think Belle has been fleshed out nearly enough for me, personally, to really like her as a character (I think Disney’s Beauty and the Beast just came out at such an impressionable time in my life – 12ish – and that I related so well to that Belle at that time makes any other Belle pale in comparison, no matter who’s playing her and how well written the story is). Hence, I hate to say it but when it comes to Rumbelle, I’m pretty ‘meh’.
I think the problem is that there are literally so many kinds of romantic love that trying to have them all fit into neat little categories just doesn’t work. Case in point: death – and let’s face it, that’s the big issue here and why A and E most likely babbled on unprepared and came up with this “definition” that left everyone scratching their heads when I think what they were honestly trying to do was make everyone feel better. So back to love and death. Here’s the problem and why we can try to figure this out and still won’t get anywhere until WE are dead. When two people are in love (married or not), together for a short period or long period, have lots of good times or not many good times and then one of them dies and then the other moves on and finds someone else – that person typically doesn’t spend time sitting around trying to define which person it is/was that they loved more/deeper/better/truer, etc. You love the person you are with, you honor the person you WERE with and you have moved on with your life. If you sat around trying to figure out if your previous partner was your True Love or Soul Mate or THIS one is, you wouldn’t have to worry about it long because you would be single in a hot second – if you are thinking like that your answer is clear and you weren’t ready to move on. Most people feel happy to have ANOTHER chance at love. Another situation – divorce and remarriage. At one point you loved your ex so deeply that you wanted to marry them, now you think they are a walking nightmare and OBVIOUSLY your new spouse is your True Love/Soul Mate. But when you were married to your ex you would have said they were. Real life. TV. We spend hours trying to figure out the definitions that A and E threw out to us that can’t possibly trump real life because we are ALL affected by our perceptions of love in real life and WHY it is that we want True Love and Soul Mates defined for OUaT. I’ll be honest – I don’t care because I’m happy with where the show is right now (who am I kidding, I am THRILLED with where the show is). So I don’t care about the semantics. True Love, Soul Mates whatever – I get that the characters I love are some version of deeply in love with each other and meant for each other so it’s good with me. I don’t really have a need to try to analyze it to death. I forgive A and E because I think they were just trying to say that everyone on the show who has been portrayed as loving someone has “truely” loved them – even if it hasn’t been this rarely achieved level of mutual love that they are holding certain couples to. But that doesn’t diminish the fact that they did love each other. It might not always have been healthy, or reciprocated, or meant to be but it was still love. Unfortunately in trying to make people feel better, they just confused everyone. I am just moving on.
@Rumplegoldfan said this in the Soul Mate v True Love thread, and I think it was so spot on, I’m copying and posting here! There’s an elephant in that thread no one’s mentioning – and thank god, because I don’t need Ship War III. But one thing I ultimately find interesting, at least in our thread, is that many of us seem less bothered by the semantics. Maybe because our ship is so strong? Look, I’m not about to say that Neal and Emma weren’t True Love. They were. So were Hook and Milah. And I’m not saying that Emma & Hook’s love is better/worse than their past relationships. Because you can’t compare apples to oranges. It’s a completely different scenario; this Emma and this Hook are not the Emma and Hook that loved Neal and Milah. That’s why I find it amusing when people say Neal ‘had to die because of CS’. No, he didn’t. I think a great many CSers would say Neal didn’t have to die because we weren’t the least bit threatened by the character or the relationships he had with Emma and Hook. So, Soul Mates or not, endgame or not, I don’t really care what label people want to slap on my ship – be it positive or negative. Because I’m loving the story that’s being told in the present.Quick drop in:
I, of course, would love Hook to take Emma on board some ship in the harbor for a romantic candle light dinner out in the harbor under the stars.
Neither Milah nor Rumple were worthy of much admiration. Rumple was just a messed up jerk…to both Milah first, then Bae after. One can sympathize with Milah’s pain and frustration living with a narcissist weakling like Rumple; she pleaded with and gave him chances to help her and them as a couple to have a better life. What we saw on film indicated that he just wouldn’t. People infuriatingly overlook Rumple’s temperamental crappiness, but they hold Milah accountable for hers. Double standards as we know are alive and well in this fandom (grin) And while she chose to leave a toxic man but left her son with a loving (if weak) parent…face it, she left her son. Something I find abhorrent. She was underdeveloped for a reason, though. Her story wasn’t the one being told.
After he became the Dark One, Rumple purposefully murdered her in cold blood. Plain and simple. Murdered the mother of his son. Inexcusable. And far worse than anything Milah did. Magic comes with a price and it also comes with the potential to be a sociopathic scumbag. (but, I happen to like scumbag Rumple for the most part! He is the evil you relish watching because he speaks to the dark side in all of us) When he let go of Bae, though, that was a far worse abandonment in my eyes. He chose pure dark power over his son and let him go into an uncertain and frightening void~ totally and knowingly alone.
Soul Mate/True Love…equally powerful, different subtleties. From my viewpoint, neither one trumps the other. Tearing them apart under a microscope is pointless, and will only lead to fandom meanness in an extended fight over semantics. But bottom line, many want to argue about any reason to tear the writers down because they are still whining about Neal.
That ” elephant” is more of a Wooly Mammoth on this particular message board. I don’t happen to think Emma and Neal were even close to true love OR being soul mates. I think it was Emma’s first foray into fairy dust young attraction/first love and Neal was fairly shallow and Rumple-Cowardly about his part in it. If anyone was out for the *goodies* it was Neal.
How Henry came out of that baggage- laden coupling with the truest heart is the real magic of the show!
And I agree with you again Jenna, Neal really was no threat. His death had to do with the culmination of his story revolving around Rumple, much like Milah’s did. Emma had already made a choice about him, heart wise. He will be remembered leaving his mortal coil having made a heroic gesture and that is fine enough. Anything more is emotional and projected over-statement.
***Always in search of a good flock***
@Rumplegoldfan said this in the Soul Mate v True Love thread, and I think it was so spot on, I’m copying and posting here! There’s an elephant in that thread no one’s mentioning – and thank god, because I don’t need Ship War III. But one thing I ultimately find interesting, at least in our thread, is that many of us seem less bothered by the semantics. Maybe because our ship is so strong? Look, I’m not about to say that Neal and Emma weren’t True Love. They were. So were Hook and Milah. And I’m not saying that Emma & Hook’s love is better/worse than their past relationships. Because you can’t compare apples to oranges. It’s a completely different scenario; this Emma and this Hook are not the Emma and Hook that loved Neal and Milah. That’s why I find it amusing when people say Neal ‘had to die because of CS’. No, he didn’t. I think a great many CSers would say Neal didn’t have to die because we weren’t the least bit threatened by the character or the relationships he had with Emma and Hook. So, Soul Mates or not, endgame or not, I don’t really care what label people want to slap on my ship – be it positive or negative. Because I’m loving the story that’s being told in the present.
Yes, yes yes. I couldn’t agree more. And I also agree with rumplegoldfan. Loves change, people change, it doesn’t make one better than the other.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
I think the main problem with Milah is that the first time we see her, she is being particularly horrible to Spinner Rumple. The audience has gotten to know Rumple throughout season 1, we saw how he was treated in Desperate Souls and to see his own wife treat him like that instantly put Milah on a lot of disliked lists. Spinner Rumple is a very pitiful character to the point that you just want to give him a hug and tell him things will be okay.
Yeah, see despite liking Rumple & knowing his story, I still didnt dislike Milah when she was introduced. But then I wasnt watching through the filter of “poor Rumple” either, frankly much of his pitiful ‘adult’ situation is self induced IMO- I cant abide by people leaning of ‘stuff’ that happens in the past as a reason/excuse for not getting their sh..poop together & getting on with life… From my own observations & experiences living as a ‘victim’ is a choice. All I saw was a woman stuck in a horrible situation (created by her husband’s choices- NOT her choices), who had the balls to walk out of a controlling, loveless marriage, so I applaud her for that. Could she have handled her situation with Rumple better- Of course! I dont hold her leaving Bae against her because A&E addressed that already- Milah “KNEW Rumple was a good father” (being a good husband & being a good father dont go hand in hand- some men are total pigs to their girlfriend or wife, yet worship their children/their own flesh & blood) & that she “didnt feel a pirate ship was a safe place to raise a young child”- fair enough.
Also I don’t think Rumple had much choice other than to tell Bae that Milah was dead, the truth that Rumple had been led to believe was much more horrifying. Rumple didn’t know Milah left of her own accord (and how exactly could he tell Bae that his mother chose to abandon him?), Rumple had been led to believe that Milah had been kidnapped and was going to be raped by a ship full of pirates. Why on earth would he tell his young son that?
He could have told Bae his mother was kidnapped & he (Rumple) wouldnt fight to save her (which is what that line “a man unwilling to fight for what we wants deserves what he gets). But agree he wouldnt have said that & lets face it, they couldnt have had the events play out any other way as they needed Milah to be the wedge between Hook & Rumple & they needed Milah out of the way so Rumple would become the darkone- as Obisgirl said “Milah, like Neal was a plot device” 😉
I would love to see Milah fleshed out more. Sadly, I doubt she will be back. I remember Bobby C. saying that Rachel (the actress) got the most hate mail. That blogger made a good point that I never noticed. Rumple never apologizes to Milah for destroying their lives and marriage. Yet he makes Milah apologize to him. What is sad is that she is being condemned for abandoning her son, but she left him with a loving parent. Yet Rumple abandoned Bae and left Bae alone and defenseless to hang onto his power. I don’t understand how Rumple being abandoned by Malcolm explains or in a way excuses what he did to Bae or why he wouldn’t move for a fresh start with Milah. I like Rumple as entertainment. He’s a great character fun to watch and his motivations are understandable, meaning you understand what drives and can see things from his point of view. BUT he is an extremely selfish man. Everything is about him. I think the spinsters did him a disservice raising him to believe that he was a superspecial snowflake that everyone’s life should revolve around his “pain” and needs, without any consideration to others. Maybe it was genetic. Malcolm was similar.
Agree with everything you say here sweetgrass- everything 🙂
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@Rumplegoldfan said this in the Soul Mate v True Love thread, and I think it was so spot on, I’m copying and posting here! There’s an elephant in that thread no one’s mentioning – and thank god, because I don’t need Ship War III. But one thing I ultimately find interesting, at least in our thread, is that many of us seem less bothered by the semantics.
Generally, I agree with you. Although I have seen at least one SF fan in that thread that has a very laid back position on everything. I think I said a couple of times that we’re getting hung up on semantics as opposed to actually talking and discussing the similarities and differences which is something I was looking forward to for reasons (*cough cough, my true love meta). <– It’s on my mind 24/7, what can I do?
I think mostly when it comes to the board here, things have calmed down a lot since Neal’s death. I notice when there’s a CS new/spoiler posted now, rarely anyone (and I mean, SF fans) post a response to it. I think they just ignore that stuff when it comes out. Indifference isn’t any better but it would be worse if there was a massive denial about the way things are too.
I do agree that in general things have toned down…here and elsewhere. Ijust get sensitive because I do try to understand allnpoints of view which can prove difficult at times. In some ways it’s unfortunate because I still feel a great divide even when it comes to non-ship conversations. But that could change for the positive…amicability during the hiatus can turn into a more friendly atmosphere when the season starts and I hope it does once we have more to discuss than a season that was as amazing for some as it was devastating for others
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