Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › General discussion and theories › The Captain Swan thread!
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August 13, 2014 at 11:42 pm #280065surayyaParticipant
Squee- as much as I’d love for our ship to have some smooth sailing, I’m pretty darn excited for the angst as well- here’s a vid of the lead up to smoochies
I can pass on what is supposed to have been said by Killian for context if folks want it 😉
[adrotate group="5"]August 14, 2014 at 12:00 am #280067surayyaParticipantCant remember if this has been posted here already or not, but just in case link to interview with Colin
August 14, 2014 at 12:16 am #280068ellemo78ParticipantFrom interview above:
“[Hook] might go back to being a little bit of bad boy,” O’Donoghue teases. “Who knows? We’ll see.”I may be in the minority here, but I hope so. I can imagine that trying to be good and changing his ways to be worthy of Emma might be tough on him, especially in a strange modern town, so I can see him slipping backwards a little bit.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
August 14, 2014 at 4:56 am #280076ladyParticipantYou know I really must stop reading anti CS and anti OUAT canon staff….It’s like I’ve been watching entirely different show!
To be honest I’ve come across this forum by accident really. I was serching the net for some info and spoilers regarding next season and I’ve found some kind of rant that the show went downhill becouse of *obvious* reasons. I’ve wanted to know why some think the way they think and are there people who share my point of view.
I would like to belive that I see OUAT like it had been written. For example I ‘ve seen seating up CS from the beginning. In Tallahasse we see Hook that gets Emmas emotional state( open book and abandonment thing). He has never questioned her ability to be a lie detector in oposite to Neal( huge sign there). And there to whole *if I ‘ve known who you are…* coming from Neal in Manhattan. I know it has been discussed already, I just need to point this out again.
The problem with interpratiaton here is that poeple often see thing in *if I were this or that character I would do or should want this or that* way. If I were were in Emma’s place I would not start a relatioship with either Hook or Neal. I am completely diferent person with diferent background. But I can see that Hook has been written to be exactly what she needs to deal with her abandonment issues. Peolpe with them tend to push away anyone who is close to never leaving them and never letting them down. Call it defense mechanism against something that they fear becouse they’ ve never known it. If they succed in pushing people away, their self-fulfilling prophecy cames trute and that confirms they are nor worthy of beaing loved etc. If Emma was in theraphy the goal would be to stick to her no mather what and show her not everyone will leave her even when she pushes them away. That is what Hook does. So that on the topic of chaingin the writting for CS to happen…
I still have same rant to do abut sacrifices, heros selfnesness and altruism. But I will write about this later.
Let’s just say that world is not black and white but in all shades of gray in my opinion.
August 14, 2014 at 7:58 am #280079ladyParticipantTo the second part. I’ve started earlier post becouse I’ve read about how trading his ship for a magic bean was not a selfless hero deed for Hook because it is a material thing and he got the girl. And how Emma shouldn’t be moved by it and *suddenly* reciprocate his feelings.
First of all there is no such thing like selfless deed and altruism. Why? Becouse their definisions declare you don’t have any personal gain whatsoever while perusing it(is that even corect entence?). And when any relation between two human beings, there is alwas some gain. Be it something good or bad for us. Sometimes it is something we can see like: Hook got a chance to see Emma, win her heart etc. It is easier to say Hook gesture was not selfless then, because you can see, let’ s say, on obvious, tangibleout outcome of his actions. When Rumple was giving up his life, his gain was not so obvoius. Some may disagree bu there was a gain- psychological one. His son will see him as a better peroson thous he will redeem himsefl. His lover will get a confirmation that he is a good man, like she always thought. In all in that moment he felt better about himself- and that is a gain. You can’t touch it or see it but it’s still there.
Hook gave up his ship a symbol of many things. Form him as a character it is a great sacrifice. Itwas not only his home now , it was a part of his identity. It still is. He will have to rebuild himself now, struggle to change his was of 300 hundreds years. Emma understands this because she is in a way in similiar situation. She’s got a family now, a huge one, her magic, she’s home. To have this an to keep it she must let go of her previous ways and fears. She must rebiuld herself too and knows Hook is willing to stick beside her and help her. His one step ahead of her and gave up his home for her, something she has been searchig for a long time.
I really love how broken they both are- that’s what makes them interesting together. The can either heal each other or be each other downfall. It is all about the journey.
Not to mention Hook(like other redeeming villians) is a wondelfull mix of gray shades, not bornig whithes like Snowing in the 1 seasnon.
Sorry. I just needed to get it out of my system.
August 14, 2014 at 8:54 am #280081ellemo78Participant@lady, I don’t think I can agree with you more, on both posts.
People see what they want to see, they read their own interpretation into the show. Like all of us they have their shipping glasses on. We’re just lucky that our ship is canon now. But honestly sometimes I just don’t see what they see and even though I don’t agree with their viewpoints, I don’t want to get into an arguement to put my view forward. No matter how much you argue, their view (usually of one particular pirate) is just never going to change. They are always going to see Hook giving up his ship as a way to get into Emma’s pants. Regardless of the fact all throughout ‘NYC Serenade’ he kept imploring “your family needs you.” He could have gone to New York and tried to ingratiate himself into her life if he was a selfish as they proclaim him to be. There’s just no way that you will convince the haters otherwise.
I agree, the shades of grey are what makes them interesting. It is also a fantasy, one can only lay so much reality onto them. If this show was set in the real world then Regina would be up on multiple murder charges, Rumple would be also be up on murder charges, as well as for psychological torture and false imprisionment. Even Snow would charged with accessory to murder. So when they scream for Hook to be punished for his misdeeds, it just doesn’t work. The haters don’t see him trying to make amends for his dark past, all they see is a selfish man doing what he can to get the girl he wants. A girl who, in their eyes, wants nothing to do with him. (I still have no clue where they think Emma says she doesn’t want him around) Nothing he does will ever be good enough for them, or will ever been seen as anything but selfish. Haters gonna hate.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
August 14, 2014 at 9:18 am #280084obisgirlParticipantPlus haters arguments as infuriating as they are will never line up with what is canon (on the show and what is presented in interviews). Jen touched on at SDCC how meaningful it was that Hook gave up his ship for Emma. It’s a very romantic gesture and Emma knows this, she understands it; that’s why she kissed him in the finale. And why she’s with him in season four and going onwards.
I think Emma said it perfectly to Snow in 2×02 that she isn’t used to people putting her first but no one really has. Jen even said that everyone has always made decisions for her and Hook is the first person who actually gives her agency. He knew how critical it was that Emma drink the memory potion in NYS but he never shoved it down her throat. He let her decide. He also stayed true to winning her without trickery. She sought him out in the finale, she went looking for him because she missed him.
I think the reason he didn’t talk about The Jolly Roger earlier because he didn’t want to burden Emma with that knowledge; like how he probably felt in the Echo Caves. Plus, they were super busy tracking Zelena.
August 14, 2014 at 9:51 am #280088callmeLolaParticipantLeaving this here because of the “Good Feels” it gave me reading it this morning 😉 Spoiler tagging the whole thing just in case.
Emma and Killian Committing To Each Other and Taking It To The Next Level
Okay, first of all, God bless the ABC promo people whose hand slipped and included that phrase in the official season 4 description. Second of all, the reason they included that question is because the answer to it is yes. That’s how you set audience expectations; THAT is Emma and Killian’s overriding storyline for season 4. We finally get to see them in a full-fledged love story. On TV shows in general, and especially in OUAT, you don’t float that big of a romantic teaser for the SHOW’S MAIN CHARACTER and her new love interest (confirmed many times by the showrunners to have been the plan all along) only to be like “lolnope” and a giant disappointment. So the fact that we are being asked if Emma and Killian will overcome their damages and commit and take it to the next level means that they will. Which is alone enough to start calling Life Alert, but hang in there.First, the “next step” of being in a formal relationship has already been taken; we’re told at the start of the season that Emma is dealing with having a “stable relationship for once.” So the next step can’t be that they merely agree to date; they’ve already done that, and that was the note they closed last season on — after two seasons of buildup, they are finally and officially together. Something bigger is coming for the end of this season, especially due to the fact that one of the chief themes is never giving up on the people you love (and remember, it was THEIR love. Not just Killian’s love, but THEIR LOVE). In 4A, we’ll see them as their damaged selves, Killian struggling with his “bad boy” side and Emma struggling with her issues, as they try to work out what their relationship looks like. They love each other, but there are challenges and obstacles to be faced, and it’ll be hard.
But then in 4B, we build on all that, and the chief pieces of foreshadowing from season 3: a) the failed TLK, and b) all the wedding talk surrounding Emma. Remember, those are still unresolved, and remember also that it was really, really blatant how they were positioning Killian as the man to fulfill all that. At the end of season 4, once they have passed through the struggle in 22 episodes, faced their issues and fallen even more in love, either one of those is the natural culmination to their story, and I’m honestly inclined to think it may well be an engagement. Just a TLK is possible too, of course, but that alone does not signify “commitment” and “next level.” Killian already gave up his ship for her, and while that was a profound demonstration of love, it served only to start their exploration of a relationship, not to confirm them as IT for all time (even though we know they are). They’re already using a green screen to film a CS kiss in 4×03, so Emma’s magic is probably acting out. Plus we briefly had the TLK light ring in 3×20 when she kissed him to save his life. So while a TLK could be the payoff, I’m still thinking it’s going to be more.
Just look at Emma’s reaction in the 4×03 spoilers. She’s angry at Killian for doing something she didn’t like, he apologizes, and then goes in for a kiss, which she eagerly and passionately accepts. She doesn’t push him away or shut him out. She has already made her choice, and therefore, in the interest of storytelling and the compressed frame of events in which things happen on this show, this is the logical next development; they’re not going to hang around in stasis just dating for the next several seasons. They’re going to move forward. The Walsh storyline was still included for a reason, and all the marriage talk around her, the blatant foreshadowing of a proposal and marriage and eventual pirate babies in 3×22. So yeah. Methinks it be acoming.
Needless to say, we will die. [/spoiler]
EDIT: I’m not getting my hopes up over the last bit of foreshadowing as I see that as a series finale type thing
August 14, 2014 at 10:11 am #280092ladyParticipantLeaving this here because of the “Good Feels” it gave me reading it this morning 😉 Spoiler tagging the whole thing just in case.
Emma and Killian Committing To Each Other and Taking It To The Next Level Okay, first of all, God bless the ABC promo people whose hand slipped and included that phrase in the official season 4 description. Second of all, the reason they included that question is because the answer to it is yes. That’s how you set audience expectations; THAT is Emma and Killian’s overriding storyline for season 4. We finally get to see them in a full-fledged love story. On TV shows in general, and especially in OUAT, you don’t float that big of a romantic teaser for the SHOW’S MAIN CHARACTER and her new love interest (confirmed many times by the showrunners to have been the plan all along) only to be like “lolnope” and a giant disappointment. So the fact that we are being asked if Emma and Killian will overcome their damages and commit and take it to the next level means that they will. Which is alone enough to start calling Life Alert, but hang in there. First, the “next step” of being in a formal relationship has already been taken; we’re told at the start of the season that Emma is dealing with having a “stable relationship for once.” So the next step can’t be that they merely agree to date; they’ve already done that, and that was the note they closed last season on — after two seasons of buildup, they are finally and officially together. Something bigger is coming for the end of this season, especially due to the fact that one of the chief themes is never giving up on the people you love (and remember, it was THEIR love. Not just Killian’s love, but THEIR LOVE). In 4A, we’ll see them as their damaged selves, Killian struggling with his “bad boy” side and Emma struggling with her issues, as they try to work out what their relationship looks like. They love each other, but there are challenges and obstacles to be faced, and it’ll be hard. But then in 4B, we build on all that, and the chief pieces of foreshadowing from season 3: a) the failed TLK, and b) all the wedding talk surrounding Emma. Remember, those are still unresolved, and remember also that it was really, really blatant how they were positioning Killian as the man to fulfill all that. At the end of season 4, once they have passed through the struggle in 22 episodes, faced their issues and fallen even more in love, either one of those is the natural culmination to their story, and I’m honestly inclined to think it may well be an engagement. Just a TLK is possible too, of course, but that alone does not signify “commitment” and “next level.” Killian already gave up his ship for her, and while that was a profound demonstration of love, it served only to start their exploration of a relationship, not to confirm them as IT for all time (even though we know they are). They’re already using a green screen to film a CS kiss in 4×03, so Emma’s magic is probably acting out. Plus we briefly had the TLK light ring in 3×20 when she kissed him to save his life. So while a TLK could be the payoff, I’m still thinking it’s going to be more. Just look at Emma’s reaction in the 4×03 spoilers. She’s angry at Killian for doing something she didn’t like, he apologizes, and then goes in for a kiss, which she eagerly and passionately accepts. She doesn’t push him away or shut him out. She has already made her choice, and therefore, in the interest of storytelling and the compressed frame of events in which things happen on this show, this is the logical next development; they’re not going to hang around in stasis just dating for the next several seasons. They’re going to move forward. The Walsh storyline was still included for a reason, and all the marriage talk around her, the blatant foreshadowing of a proposal and marriage and eventual pirate babies in 3×22. So yeah. Methinks it be acoming. Needless to say, we will die. [/spoiler]
Good feelings received:)
Regarding that green screen while filming a Kiss… I think it could go two ways: Emma’s magic reacst to her emotions and we will get some magical fireworks or someone is observing them trough a magical mirrow or something like that.
😀
August 14, 2014 at 11:30 am #280096Bo-PeepsParticipantI certainly hope we see twists and turns for our feisty couple! The actors love that as well. If it was all easy sweetness and light it would bore everyone (grin). Passionate people need a little pot stirring to keep them satisfied.
I wouldn’t expect any less from the creators. Idea people create well, ideas! And the characters bring those to entertaining life 🙂
While Hook and his Lady Swan are solidly affectionate and have been purposefully and carefully written to be that passionate couple, they have obstacles to tackle that still will propel them forward and for those of us gathered here to bask, celebrate and even become an angst-pummeled part of that dramatic joy, it’s all still GOOD.
To @lady…ignore the petulant killjoys. Those who choose to embrace that mindset continue to grasp at delusion and wallow in denial. They seem to thrive on sucking the joy out of even their own world by toxically clinging to the venom and hate. They also seem to be oblivious that at this point, the rest of the fandom, having given them time and space to react to a fictional happening on a TV show…don’t care what they post anymore.
But we welcome you to vent anything here, anytime! We are kindred spirits 🙂
Regarding the possible but unlikely return of Graham…loved his accent (grin) and his affinity with the beautiful beasts of the world, but he was a bit of a submissive! (Oh the 50 shades of irony in that statement!) And while there was some good quick chemistry between he and Swan, it didn’t seem very substantial or up to the level of intensity to match Emma’s challenging personality and demons to vanquish!
and as usual, the spoilers have sucked me in, bigtime! I am looking forward to ALL the new drama…and costumes..in the world of ONCE.
***Always in search of a good flock***
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