Home › Forums › Once Upon a Time › General discussion and theories › The Captain Swan thread!
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August 15, 2014 at 3:24 am #280155surayyaParticipant
Umm, thats really weird- It’s saying there’s 1105 pages in the forum, but it wont let me go to page 1105, I just get get the thread title & the ‘write your post’ box :/ & now I;m back on pg 1104 it says there is no pg 1105? Forum gremlins must be at work again 😉
[adrotate group="5"]August 15, 2014 at 3:26 am #280156surayyaParticipantI was literally just about to post something exactly like that too!
Hahaha, great minds all think alike 😉
August 15, 2014 at 6:39 am #280161ladyParticipantSee to me, it “almost seems OOC” Only IF his actions towards Emma (aka Jail, abandonment, his treatment of her in S2) have been “excused”. The writing was on the wall even back in S1- I dont think Neal fans really truly took to heart that Neal has always been written as the person who cemented Emma’s elephant sized trust issues. They loved the actor & Rumple, so ‘forgave’ Neal his actions- despite the direction of the story. Neal was shown to have a selfish, cowardly streak right from the start & it reared it’s head on a number of occasions, we’ve discussed them many times here- yes, sure he had a change of heart & went back to the apartment to make sure his father didnt kill Emma for breaking her deal with him & he stepped up to be Henry’s father- but that is 2 instances in a long list of not so great actions ie. sending her to jail, abandoning her a number of times, belittling Emma & demeaning her skills/talent, taking her to task for tracking him down, when it was him who had wronged her, his double standards towards others etc. The problem is SF/NF fans gave him a pass & put a more positive spin on these not so great actions actions- they excused them as acceptable or o.k despite the direction of the story telling, so come S3 all the smaller slips didnt count in their eyes & his bigger slips into even ‘less than stellar’ actions seemed to come out of nowhere & were OOC for them- yet here in the CS thread none of us where surprised at all- we saw it coming from way back in S2- I remember thinking they were going to set Neal up as the next DO in S2 & S3 & I wasnt the only one who felt that way… that wasnt because he was Rumple’s son or we didnt want him with Emma, it was purely because he was written with the glimpses of darkness/nastiness & the potential to do very cowardly & ‘dark’ things right from the get go, as was proven in S3, we just didnt put him on a pedestal & refuse to see his actions for what they were. I think many of us saw Hook as darkness working towards lightness & Neal as lightness working its way towards darkness, which put people off of shipping him with Emma.
You’ re reading my mind. 😀 Although I would not dwell on the darkness vs. lightness part( I know it’s importatnt in a fantasy show). Aside from what he is thinking about Emmas superpower and origins, it is also about the choices Neal made regarding her( and Henry later) or rather his actions. SF/NF fans always say he had good intentions. There is this saying: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Most of Neals actions are not so good as his *intentions*, while most of Killian actions towards Emma are rather beneficial for Her. The only unfortunate one I think of, is the whole * Henry kidnapping* situation.
August 15, 2014 at 6:51 am #280162surayyaParticipantI agree lady- which is why I said the bottom line comes down to the End result of Neal’s worst actions with Emma = Emma with even bigger, fully cemented trust issues-that prevent her from loving or trusting anyone for 28yrs, but eventually finding her family as a ‘bright side’.
While the end result of Hook’s worst actions (leaving her in Rumples cell in S2) with Emma = Emma & princesses find the magical squid ink they are looking for & Emma realises, perhaps for the 1st time, how her not letting go of the past can & will directly affect her future if she lets it. 😉August 15, 2014 at 7:12 am #280163PriceofMagicParticipantSF/NF fans always say he had good intentions. There is this saying: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Most of Neals actions are not so good as his *intentions*, while most of Killian actions towards Emma are rather beneficial for Her. The only unfortunate one I think of, is the whole * Henry kidnapping* situation.
Rumple himself said in-show “Intent is meaningless”.
I wouldn’t say Hook was “kidnapping” Henry since that implies it was against Henry’s will. It was more taking without asking. Hook’s intent in that scenario was noble, getting Henry out of Zelena’s reach, however his execution of said intention let him down.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixAugust 15, 2014 at 8:04 am #280164ladyParticipant@surayya I think Hook leaving Emma and other princesse in that cell is nothing compered to Neal living her in prison for a Crime she did not commit. Emma was the first one who left Hook behind. And they have just met each other. No relationship history there. Neal sent his lover to jail. No comperation here.
SF/NF fans always say he had good intentions. There is this saying: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.” Most of Neals actions are not so good as his *intentions*, while most of Killian actions towards Emma are rather beneficial for Her. The only unfortunate one I think of, is the whole * Henry kidnapping* situation.
Rumple himself said in-show “Intent is meaningless”. I wouldn’t say Hook was “kidnapping” Henry since that implies it was against Henry’s will. It was more taking without asking. Hook’s intent in that scenario was noble, getting Henry out of Zelena’s reach, however his execution of said intention let him down.
I agree with you. I’ve used term “kidnapping” in reference to what is being labeled as by some people. 😀 It was a mind short cut hence the misunderstanding. Sorry.
August 15, 2014 at 8:35 am #280167surayyaParticipant@surayya I think Hook leaving Emma and other princesse in that cell is nothing compered to Neal living her in prison for a Crime she did not commit. Emma was the first one who left Hook behind. And they have just met each other. No relationship history there. Neal sent his lover to jail. No comperation here.
Yes- I know & feel the same way. However I wasnt comparing the actions of the guys with each other, only with the outcome of Emma’s emotional state, nothing else 🙂
My point is in terms of potentially crappy out comes for Emma’s suitors- Hook’s ‘worst’ action against Emma (leaving her in a cell without knowing with absolute certainty that she & the others could escape it 1st), compared to the potentially crappy outcomes of Neal’s ‘worst’ action against Emma (abandoning her in jail), the outcome of Hook’s action had far in away less/ if any negative emotional outcome for Emma at all- in fact it highlighted a very important fact- if she let her past rule her future, she was likely going to end up very alone & unloved eventually.
So the bottom line is between her suitors- Neal screwed up in a way that was pretty much impossible for Emma forgive & forget on a “romantic” level story wise. (As in Neal was written as Emma’s tragic past)
When Hook screwed up, Emma came out if not slightly better off, then at least more self aware than she started out story wise. (As in Hook being written as Emma’s catalyst for growing past her emotional damage & towards a ‘HEA’ future)
Hope that makes sense to you now 🙂August 15, 2014 at 8:39 am #280168ellemo78ParticipantI think Hook leaving Emma and other princesse in that cell is nothing compered to Neal living her in prison for a Crime she did not commit. Emma was the first one who left Hook behind. And they have just met each other. No relationship history there. Neal sent his lover to jail. No comperation here.
And you know Hook wouldn’t have left Emma and the princesses in the cell if Emma hadn’t left him on top of the beanstalk first. He was so heartfelt when he contradicted Emma in saying he would have done the same to her. I’ve always been curious to know what would have happened had Emma trusted him and not left him up there. I think I would have enjoyed that storyline. More CS time perhaps and perhaps Hook may not have had the bile directed at him, since leaving Emma & co in the cell (and hitting Belle) seem to be his big crimes.
Actually I have a random question about the final. Why did Hook need Charming’s help to break into the Queen’s castle? He’d done it before in the attempt to ‘rescue’ Belle. Regina even said no-one else had managed to get past her defences before. Was it just the idea of getting Snow and Charming working together for a common goal and that was the reason he ‘needed’ their help?
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
August 15, 2014 at 8:57 am #280169obisgirlParticipant@surayya I think Hook leaving Emma and other princesse in that cell is nothing compered to Neal living her in prison for a Crime she did not commit. Emma was the first one who left Hook behind. And they have just met each other. No relationship history there. Neal sent his lover to jail. No comperation here.
I agree. Being left behind in jail by someone you love I’m sure hurts 10x more than what Hook did to Emma and the Princess Brigade. But Emma did betray Hook first. Hook would not needed to side with Cora had that happened. And was Neal sending Emma to jail really necessary? In the long run?
I don’t think so. I think Emma would still be broken if Neal left her, regardless of the situation but being in jail traumatized her.
Onto some happier news:
https://twitter.com/morrisonaddict/status/500245434971873280
August 15, 2014 at 9:15 am #280171surayyaParticipantWas it just the idea of getting Snow and Charming working together for a common goal and that was the reason he ‘needed’ their help?
Yes this.
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