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I just rewatched a few of the late S2 episodes the other day and wanted to smack Neal across the face…which was new for me since I usually thought he was fine, just not my particular choice for Emma. Although it did cement my belief that there was no way for SF to work. Neal just made too many wrong decisions FOR Emma, instead of letting Emma CHOOSE for herself (an extremely important theme for Emma, I think most of us here agree on!) for that relationship to ever be salvaged. However, although I totally disagree with his choices, I do still think he wasn’t ‘bad,’ more of an easy pawn for other peoples’ agendas. I did like Neal and Henry’s relationship and do feel that Neal’s purpose to the show wasn’t necessarily over, because paralleling Neal & Henry’s relationship with Neal & Rumple’s could have made for some interesting storytelling. However, with an enormous cast, and multiple storylines, not all can be told and ultimately, the writers chose Neal’s stories were not as integral to the overall plotline to continue with it. (I think this is where the cries of ‘CS fanservice’ stem from.) As others mentioned, that decision could very well have stemmed from the fact that the writers are telling Emma’s story primarily. If this were Henry’s story, or Rumple’s, Neal would still serve much purpose. But because this is Emma’s story, and there was just no way to salvage SF, Neal served his purpose.
As for the ‘Big Bad’ storylines, I would like them to spread them out to a full season. I liked both NL & Oz, but there was so much we didn’t get to see because the writers only had 11 episodes to tell them. As a result, the villains’ motivations seemed (to me) to get ridiculously simplified (jealous of a sister she never knew? he didn’t want to be a dad?) and didn’t really answer the question ‘why are they doing this?’ It also lends more time to spend on the more interpersonal relationships between the characters…however, while this is someone like Jane Espenson’s forte, the EPs tend to enjoy the bigger, shinier aspects more. (Sometimes I wonder how incredibly different OUAT would be if someone like Jane were the showrunner…she really needs to develop her own fantasy show after OUAT ends!)
[adrotate group="5"]Haha, oh yeah – and my thought’s on Jell-O!
It is quite possibly the grossest “food” ever created. Unnatural doesn’t even begin to describe…Hook’s ‘hallucination’ does fit, though.
And my poor pirate – he knows it’s not medicine! Although I do see him thinking it a ‘comfort’ food like chicken soup, so yes, going overboard with it whenever Emma and Henry so much as sniffle…
Milah and Rumple seemed to have rubbed off on Neal. There are parallels of Milah’s behaviour and traits in Neal as well as parallels of Rumple’s traits and behaviour in Neal. Milah was in Neal’s life until he was about 5 or 6 so he would’ve witnessed the state of Rumple and Milah’s marriage and, as that was probably his first example of what a marriage/romantic relationship was, he probably thought it normal because he didn’t know any different.
Rumple and Milah didn’t seem like the type that would argue in front of Bae. They probably pretended everything was fine whilst he was present then let it all out when he was gone.
The two examples are when Rumple returns in Manhattan and the Bar scene in The Crocodile
In the Crocodile, Rumple seemed meek when confronting Milah because he knew Bae was outside whereas Milah, having had a few and unaware Bae was there, just blurted out what she was feeling. When Bae appeared, Milah stopped having a go and got up and left quietly with Bae and Rumple.
In Manhattan, when Milah is having a go at Rumple, Rumple has a go right back.
I think a lot of Rumple’s and Milah’s issues actually had an effect on Bae which helped turn him into the person he was.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixOn the Jell-o thing: I used to like it when I was little, but now I find it rather gross now for multiple reasons, but I can’t eat it anyway because I’m a vegetarian and gelatin comes from the skin, bones, and connective tissues of meat animals. And the texture creeps me out. Back to OUAT though, I got the impression that Hook giving Neal jello was mostly kind of a funny shout-out to those of us who love (are obsessed with?) the show enough to have watched the deleted scenes.
And yeah, I’ve said something like this before, but it just doesn’t seem like Neal was ever set up to be particularly sympathetic (or a good love interest for Emma). It seems that way in “Tallahassee” and then it’s even more obvious when we meet him in the present for the first time in “Manhattan” and he acts like a hypocrite and a colossal jerk to Emma (“Dad, I never want to see you again because you abandoned me even though you instantly regretted it and spent hundreds of years trying to get to me. Oh, and Emma, I know I abandoned you and never looked for you even when I knew exactly where you were and that you’d broken the curse, but you should totally forgive me! After I laugh in your face about it, of course.”)
Just had a thought. Was rewatching the scene where Belle said the Swan necklace was born out of true love and I think I’ve thought of a way where she is right yet doesn’t mean SF was meant to be “end-game”.
1. True love isn’t all about romance, it can be caring about someone in a non-romantic way.
2. When Neal gave Emma the keychain, it was given at a time when they did truly love each other (hence “born out of true love”) but time changes people so whilst they still do care about each other, it’s not in a romantic way.All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixYou do get some genuinely interesting opinions and posts in the SF thread. However there are some tumblr posts that appear there that do just make you facepalm and laugh because of the stupidity especially the one about Hook coming out of a strip club.
Are you talking about the promo thread? LOL that was me. I was being funny. I thought it was hilarious Hook was coming out of a bar which says it’s “Ladies Night”. 😀
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
@ellemo78, I’ll get you the link and you tell me if it’s you
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix@ellemo78, I’ll get you the link and you tell me if it’s you
Oh no that’s definitely not me! They obviously don’t have a sense of humour.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
What’s also funny is that Hook thinks Jello has medicinal properties. He understands very few things about our world but jello to him, is medicine. Mark my words, if Emma were sick with the flu or morning sickness, the first thing Hook would bring her is a bowl of jello because he thinks it’ll make her feel better. And I appreciate how the writers kept this affinity for jello in the show by showing him bring Neal jello in 3×15.
Yes it is funny that he thinks it does. I thought him bringing Neal jello was totally cute- loved that bit & agree on his pulling out the jelly as a remedy to help cure whatever ails Emma &/or Henry- I’d give almost anything for a Killy making ‘magic’ Jelly for his sick loved ones scene lol 😉
Another awesome post @Bo-Peeps & I totally agree with you.
You do get some genuinely interesting opinions and posts in the SF thread. However there are some tumblr posts that appear there that do just make you facepalm and laugh because of the stupidity especially the one about Hook coming out of a strip club. And then there are some tumblr posts that are genuinely funny like the Zelena nominating Hook for the ice bucket challenge one.
Hopefully one day, maybe when the negativity dissipates, I’ll have a nosy over there, but for now (I’ve been told) most of the thread is snark & negative comments- which is a shame.
Oh, please do link to Zelena nominating Hook for Ice bucket- I havent seen that yet, sounds like fun 🙂
I did like Neal and Henry’s relationship and do feel that Neal’s purpose to the show wasn’t necessarily over, because paralleling Neal & Henry’s relationship with Neal & Rumple’s could have made for some interesting storytelling. However, with an enormous cast, and multiple storylines, not all can be told and ultimately, the writers chose Neal’s stories were not as integral to the overall plotline to continue with it.
Absolutely agree.
It is quite possibly the grossest “food” ever created. Unnatural doesn’t even begin to describe…Hook’s ‘hallucination’ does fit, though.
On the Jell-o thing: I used to like it when I was little, but now I find it rather gross now for multiple reasons, but I can’t eat it anyway because I’m a vegetarian and gelatin comes from the skin, bones, and connective tissues of meat animals.
Yay- I have a ‘Eww Jello’ friends- we shall stand together against the tide of ‘yummy jello loving’ souls lol (can you tell I’ve been watching & reading epic dramas lately lol) 😛 😉
Milah and Rumple seemed to have rubbed off on Neal. There are parallels of Milah’s behaviour and traits in Neal as well as parallels of Rumple’s traits and behaviour in Neal. Milah was in Neal’s life until he was about 5 or 6 so he would’ve witnessed the state of Rumple and Milah’s marriage and, as that was probably his first example of what a marriage/romantic relationship was, he probably thought it normal because he didn’t know any different.
Another very good point & I love the examples you used.
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