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There have been one-liner indications (Snow’s “banditry” line in explaining to non-remembering Henry how she knew Emma from jail) that Emma’s past is known. It would be a brain-burp moment if the Charmings didn’t know the specifics of how their daughter wound up in jail, but then, Emma isn’t a glowing symbol of informative openess.
I mostly resist Emma/Neal commentary because he was a total romantic partnership dullard to me and is only a symbol of pain for her, so I can understand any reluctance Emma would have in mentioning his immature betrayal and cowardly part in her past. She has hidden her personal torment behind lies to Henry so why not her parents?
IF they know, however, and went ahead naming their child after a man with direct ties to considerable pain and grief to their daughter, it reeks of insensitive stupidity.
I hope, for that reason, they don’t know the ugly details. I don’t want Snow and Charming to be that dense.
In addition, I hope Hook doesn’t know the actual specifics either. It was certainly very BAD form of Neal and would most likely influence his “Baelfire” memories.
…but, this is a fantasy show and is steeped in suspension of disbelief. (Smile) thinking too hard about any of the stories, whimsy laced or totally WTF moments removes part of the magical fantasy aspect that I count on for my escapism entertainment.
[adrotate group="5"]***Always in search of a good flock***
Snow is full of “insensitive stupidity” through out season 3 particularly in Ariel.
Hook and Charming had agreed together that it would be in Emma’s best interest to VERIFY Pan’s information about Neal being alive THEN tell Emma about it. They intended to tell Emma, they just wanted to make sure it was true rather than going on a wild goose chase. Yet Snow just had to blurt it out because Snow wanted to tell Emma and what Snow wants, Snow gets.
In the echo caves, there were ways of confessing that you want to have another baby and actually have chance to raise a child that don’t involve telling your grown up daughter that the relationship you currently have is not what you wanted. It was as if Snow was implying Emma was at fault because Emma grew up and wasn’t cute and cuddly anymore.
Hook was absolutely spot on when he called Snow “demanding”. Notice though how quick Charming was to get into a fight with Hook when he insulted Snow in Neverland, but after the “demanding” comment, Charming only gave him a look, the “that is my wife” look. Yes Hook tried to deflect by making out he was referring to Zelena, though it was obvious he wasn’t, but you get the sense that Charming was actually agreeing with him but couldn’t admit it because that wouldn’t have been an honourable thing for a husband to do.
Naming the baby Neal most likely came from Snow. She was very pro-Neal despite having no reason to be so pro-Neal. The only way Snowing can know about Neal abandoning Emma in jail and still think positively of him is if they see it from his view as a big sacrifice to get Emma home rather than from Emma’s view that she was abandoned by the guy she loved. Still, at most Neal should’ve been a middle name rather than the baby’s first name. Snowing also need to learn that when something goes wrong, it’s actually possible to be the work of someone else other than Rumple or Regina.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixJust watching some Once clips on youtube and one just happens to be this scene
2 interesting things stick out in this scene.
1. After asking Neal if he knew who she was when they met, when he says no, Emma replies “So if you didn’t know, you were just using me, you just needed someone to take the fall for all the watches that you stole”.
That’s what Emma believed for 11 years. No wonder she has severe trust issues. She met a guy she thought was the love of her life and loved her in return and instead he abandons her to take the fall for his crime.
2. Neal seems shocked that Emma made a deal with Rumple. As he says later to Rumple “I’ve seen what you do to people who break deals”. So why does Neal encourage Emma to break her deal with Rumple by MAKING A DEAL with her? Neal says to Emma she should lie to Rumple, “you do that, you never have to see me again”.
Neal is a mix of Milah and Rumple rolled into one.
I think the choice of not to pursue SwanFire was made during season 2, however I think the choice to kill Neal was not made until halfway through 3A. Season 2 Neal was very bitter towards Rumple. In SSTTR, Neal was telling Rumple to stay away from him, that’s the last words they spoke to each other before Neverland. In Neverland, once Neal found out Rumple might want to kill Henry, he wanted nothing to do with Rumple. Neverland was only about a week timeline wise. By the end of it, Neal suddenly forgave Rumple. It was a nice scene but still, bit of a quick turnaround, almost as if they were suddenly trying to tie up the loose ends of Neal’s story. Unless Neal suddenly got a case of the “I could’ve had it a lot worst”, he should’ve at least still been a bit wary of Rumple.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixYup @priceofmagic . You got it.
Let’s look at another piece of dialogue from that scene:
Emma: Did you know who I was when we met?
Neal: If I had, I wouldn’t have gone near you.Imagine how hurtful that is for Emma to hear Neal say that to her. Regardless if that was the truth or not, it still hurts her because she loved him, was excited to have a life with him and a home for the first time in her life. And Neal just admitted if he knew who she was, he wouldn’t have gone near her AT ALL. I think that’s why I can’t ‘ship it. Emma Swan is an amazing, beautiful woman and deserves better than that. She needs all encompassing love, love that has faith in her, her abilities and appreciates her for the wonderful person she is. And Hook is all of these things for Emma and more.
and then, there’s this from Hook:
Emma: So, do you think Rumpelstiltskin was right? I’m in the book now. (Hook chuckles) He said everything, besides our little adventure, would go back to normal. Do you think that it is?
Hook: He’s right. Otherwise I’d remember that damned bar wench I kissed. (Emma smiles.)
Emma: How would that prove anything?
Hook: I know how you kiss. I’d have gone after her.But here’s where Hook greatly contrasts with Neal. Had he remembered Emma, he would have gone after her regardless of who she was. As soon as soon as past-Hook met Emma, she was the only one that mattered and I truly present-Hook’s assessment about that meeting. There’s no reason not to believe that past-Hook’s attraction to bar wench Emma would not have turned into love later and if it did, guess what, he doesn’t need to pursue his revenge anymore. He would have given it all up then for the opportunity for a second chance at a happy ending. And we know this is true because he wanted a chance with Bae to start over, for a second chance but he was denied that opportunity.
There have been one-liner indications (Snow’s “banditry” line in explaining to non-remembering Henry how she knew Emma from jail) that Emma’s past is known. It would be a brain-burp moment if the Charmings didn’t know the specifics of how their daughter wound up in jail, but then, Emma isn’t a glowing symbol of informative openess.
They know Emma was in Phoenix jail (& for what) from S1 when Sydney dug up the dirt on her thanks to Regina- Emma however didnt tell them who got her put there- as far as we know.
IF they know, however, and went ahead naming their child after a man with direct ties to considerable pain and grief to their daughter, it reeks of insensitive stupidity. I hope, for that reason, they don’t know the ugly details. I don’t want Snow and Charming to be that dense.
Which is why I fully believe that they dont know what exactly went down & am disappointed that we probably wont ever see them know it- they’ll simply sweep it under the ‘forget about it’ rug. *sigh* Oh well :/
Naming the baby Neal most likely came from Snow. She was very pro-Neal despite having no reason to be so pro-Neal. The only way Snowing can know about Neal abandoning Emma in jail and still think positively of him is if they see it from his view as a big sacrifice to get Emma home rather than from Emma’s view that she was abandoned by the guy she loved. Still, at most Neal should’ve been a middle name rather than the baby’s first name. Snowing also need to learn that when something goes wrong, it’s actually possible to be the work of someone else other than Rumple or Regina.
Agreed.
1. After asking Neal if he knew who she was when they met, when he says no, Emma replies “So if you didn’t know, you were just using me, you just needed someone to take the fall for all the watches that you stole”. That’s what Emma believed for 11 years. No wonder she has severe trust issues. She met a guy she thought was the love of her life and loved her in return and instead he abandons her to take the fall for his crime. 2. Neal seems shocked that Emma made a deal with Rumple. As he says later to Rumple “I’ve seen what you do to people who break deals”. So why does Neal encourage Emma to break her deal with Rumple by MAKING A DEAL with her? Neal says to Emma she should lie to Rumple, “you do that, you never have to see me again”. Neal is a mix of Milah and Rumple rolled into one. I think the choice of not to pursue SwanFire was made during season 2, however I think the choice to kill Neal was not made until halfway through 3A. Season 2 Neal was very bitter towards Rumple. In SSTTR, Neal was telling Rumple to stay away from him, that’s the last words they spoke to each other before Neverland. In Neverland, once Neal found out Rumple might want to kill Henry, he wanted nothing to do with Rumple. Neverland was only about a week timeline wise. By the end of it, Neal suddenly forgave Rumple. It was a nice scene but still, bit of a quick turnaround, almost as if they were suddenly trying to tie up the loose ends of Neal’s story. Unless Neal suddenly got a case of the “I could’ve had it a lot worst”, he should’ve at least still been a bit wary of Rumple.
Absolutely agree with all 3 of your points.
Yup @priceofmagic . You got it. Let’s look at another piece of dialogue from that scene:
Emma: Did you know who I was when we met? Neal: If I had, I wouldn’t have gone near you.
Imagine how hurtful that is for Emma to hear Neal say that to her. Regardless if that was the truth or not, it still hurts her because she loved him, was excited to have a life with him and a home for the first time in her life. And Neal just admitted if he knew who she was, he wouldn’t have gone near her AT ALL. I think that’s why I can’t ‘ship it. Emma Swan is an amazing, beautiful woman and deserves better than that. She needs all encompassing love, love that has faith in her, her abilities and appreciates her for the wonderful person she is. And Hook is all of these things for Emma and more. and then, there’s this from Hook:
Emma: So, do you think Rumpelstiltskin was right? I’m in the book now. (Hook chuckles) He said everything, besides our little adventure, would go back to normal. Do you think that it is? Hook: He’s right. Otherwise I’d remember that damned bar wench I kissed. (Emma smiles.) Emma: How would that prove anything? Hook: I know how you kiss. I’d have gone after her.
But here’s where Hook greatly contrasts with Neal. Had he remembered Emma, he would have gone after her regardless of who she was. As soon as soon as past-Hook met Emma, she was the only one that mattered and I truly present-Hook’s assessment about that meeting. There’s no reason not to believe that past-Hook’s attraction to bar wench Emma would not have turned into love later and if it did, guess what, he doesn’t need to pursue his revenge anymore. He would have given it all up then for the opportunity for a second chance at a happy ending. And we know this is true because he wanted a chance with Bae to start over, for a second chance but he was denied that opportunity.
Yep, I’m the same- I cant ship Emma with anything but the deepest, loyalest, strongest of love, it’s nothing less than she deserves & I never got that from Neal, but did/do from Hook/Killian.
Press release relating to our CS…
Hook is dismayed to discover that Emma seems to be avoiding him while she tries to help comfort Regina after being the one responsible for bringing Marian back from the past and into Storybrooke.
The fun is about to begin! Squee! 😀In regard to what Snowing know about Emma’s jail time and who she has to thank for putting here there…I think they don’t know. Simply, because I think Charming would have immense issue with it. Charming seemed…at best, ambivalent toward Neal for the most part. As for Snow, the way they wrote her during S3, yammering on about hope and home and true love and being almost blind to everything around her, I wouldn’t put it past her to still think Neal and Emma are TL, should be together and that there’s nothing wrong with naming the child Neal for that reason.
Snow is the character I have the 2nd most difficult reconciling her EF persona and SB persona (Neal/Bae was the first) I simply do not see Bandit Snow, or even Married EF Snow, in memory-restored Mary Margaret. Although in S1 Mary Margaret was far more meek and timid than EF Snow, she still had the tenacity that really motivated the character. But memory-restored MM is just this watered-down, almost wantingly ignorant person and it drives me nuts.
In regard to the press release – I’m somewhat bummed they’re going the Emma pulls away route. Although it seems like it’ll be short lived and I guess it would be more OOC for Emma to not feel the need to pull away. But hey there, A&E – we saw plenty of Emma running in “I’m so scared” circles in 3B – don’t let it last very long!! Killy needs a break!
Haha, and after posting I hop onto Tumblr and find this gem:
http://hookier.tumblr.com/post/96987840889/awwww-go-ahead-abc-try-to-start-drama-ill
EDIT: I originally put the original post here but I’d have to spoiler out a ton of stuff and I’m way too lazy for that!
As for Snow, the way they wrote her during S3, yammering on about hope and home and true love and being almost blind to everything around her, I wouldn’t put it past her to still think Neal and Emma are TL, should be together and that there’s nothing wrong with naming the child Neal for that reason.
I hope not. I think I would be done with Snow’s character if she still holds a torch for Neal and continues to talk about he was Emma’s true love next season. If Snow does this, seriously, she needs to stop forcing her beliefs onto other people, especially Emma. Emma already said to her in the season 3 premiere that they have different experiences. Emma’s life is not going to directly mirror Snow’s life and I don’t expect that to be the case, because if it were, Neal would be the love story going forward, not Captain Swan.
The one promising thing about how Snow and Charming might react to CS next season is this:
Will Snow and Charming be supportive parents when it comes to Hook and Emma’s relationship?
KITSIS: Yes.In regard to what Snowing know about Emma’s jail time and who she has to thank for putting here there…I think they don’t know. Simply, because I think Charming would have immense issue with it. Charming seemed…at best, ambivalent toward Neal for the most part. As for Snow, the way they wrote her during S3, yammering on about hope and home and true love and being almost blind to everything around her, I wouldn’t put it past her to still think Neal and Emma are TL, should be together and that there’s nothing wrong with naming the child Neal for that reason.
Season 3 Snow was so annoying. Whilst season 2 Snow had her moments, season 3 Snow just seemed very self-centred all of the time.
Snow is the character I have the 2nd most difficult reconciling her EF persona and SB persona (Neal/Bae was the first) I simply do not see Bandit Snow, or even Married EF Snow, in memory-restored Mary Margaret. Although in S1 Mary Margaret was far more meek and timid than EF Snow, she still had the tenacity that really motivated the character. But memory-restored MM is just this watered-down, almost wantingly ignorant person and it drives me nuts.
I agree. Season 1 Snow was great, even MM was okay. But memory restored Snow seems to have taken a nose dive into MM territory and is seemingly content to play wife and pop out a few kids. Snow has become more of a damsel in distress character rather than the self-sufficient character she was in season 1.
In regard to the press release – I’m somewhat bummed they’re going the Emma pulls away route. Although it seems like it’ll be short lived and I guess it would be more OOC for Emma to not feel the need to pull away. But hey there, A&E – we saw plenty of Emma running in “I’m so scared” circles in 3B – don’t let it last very long!! Killy needs a break!
I don’t mind Emma pulling away from Hook and I can actually identify with that feeling. You don’t want to leave yourself emotionally vulnerable because you worry that if you open yourself up too much, you’re going to get rejected just for being you. It’s a natural response to put up a front so that the real you stays protected.
This is going to be the real test for Hook. It’s not just a case of he’s won Emma’s heart and that’s it. He needs to be there for Emma even though it seems she’s pushing him away. He needs to be patient with Emma, encourage her but don’t pressure her. Hook needs to continue showing Emma that he loves her, even if she’s not being all lovey dovey towards him. When Emma feels comfortable around Hook and feels confident that he isn’t going to abandon her, then she’ll start being more affectionate towards him on a regular basis. Hook has a difficult, time-consuming task ahead of him, he needs to show Emma that he’s up to it.
I hope not. I think I would be done with Snow’s character if she still holds a torch for Neal and continues to talk about he was Emma’s true love next season. If Snow does this, seriously, she needs to stop forcing her beliefs onto other people, especially Emma. Emma already said to her in the season 3 premiere that they have different experiences. Emma’s life is not going to directly mirror Snow’s life and I don’t expect that to be the case, because if it were, Neal would be the love story going forward, not Captain Swan.
The one promising thing about how Snow and Charming might react to CS next season is this:
Will Snow and Charming be supportive parents when it comes to Hook and Emma’s relationship?
KITSIS: Yes.Snow’s always seemed to have the view of “I believe this therefore it must be right” and she does like to push her views on to others. I see Charming being the more supportive of CS of the two. That’s not to say he’s secretly planning a CS wedding, but he’s probably supporting along the lines of “Emma’s an adult now and can make her own decisions. I’m here if she needs me” whereas Snow will probably be more “I think it’s too soon after Neal but I won’t say anything. I’ll wait and see how it plays out”.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
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