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Regarding Snow, I’ve never found it too surprising that she was more of a Neal fan since her experience is that first love is true love, and so of course the fairytale happy ending has to be her daughter ending up with with her first (and thereby automatically true) love, and doubly so because he was Henry’s father. (Surely you don’t have children with anyone who’s not your true love!) Heck, she probably expected Emma to go join the convent with the fairies since Neal died. So she probably didn’t think Emma would have a problem with naming her brother after him because she assumed Emma would be mourning Neal for the rest of her days anyway.
But yeah, since they said Snow and Charming were going to be “supportive”, I’m guessing any of that conflict will either not be a big deal at all or will be resolved quickly. I just hope the baby gets a nickname really soon!
I also very much agree with missing the “old” Snow, personality-wise. Hopefully we’ll see her come back soon. 🙂
[adrotate group="5"]Fans like that give Oncers a bad name. Those questions are just rude plain and simple. Worst of all, they are targeted at the actors and actresses themselves. There are ways of bringing up points without being rude about it. I have nothing against having an LGBT couple on the show, however because of fans like that, I hope they never have an LGBT couple on the show because why should bullying behaviour like that be rewarded? It is a shame to people who do genuinely want to have a LGBT couple on the show but it is people, SQers, like that that do serious damage to the cause rather than help it.
This is a really really horrible thing to say.
SQers are constantly harassed and marginalised by the rest of the fandom and our actions are constantly exaggerated while people say much worse to us. It’s aggravating. IT’s not enough to say ‘I’m not homophobic but’. You guys get one of the most active threads on the forum – what do we get? We have to keep to our own holes on places like Tumblr while the rest of you call us crazy. Ongoing discussion of Swan Queen as a ship is effectively silenced here.
LGBT representation is a big issue whether you’d “like” to see it or not. Saying you hope we get none just to “Spite” some bullies is an incredibly privileged and horrible thing to say. We are not bullies. A bully is a person who persecuted from a position of power, which people like me lack. If we had power, there would be a Swan Queen thread here. We would have a queer ship on the show. We wouldn’t constantly be misrepresented and shut out of these communities.
Sometimes I break down crying because of how hard it is to be queer and to never just be able to go to the cinema and see a dumb rom com about two girls that fall in love or a big budget blockbuster about a bisexual translady. i’m stuck with artsy indie flicks most of which don’t interest me or are hard to get a hold of and watching Lost Girl. you have no idea what a lack of representation feels like yet you judge us for acting less aggressively than you do towards us. it is painful growing up in a society that celebrates heterosexual love above all, and OUAT is part of that machine.
What bothers me is that there was a time, before I started shipping Swan Queen that I pretty much shipped Captain Swan. But from a feminist perspective there are issues in the relationship, and it makes me mad that I can’t call these out whereas people will nitpick Swan Queen to pieces. Maintext should not be the most important thing when it excludes people like me constantly, and when it’s prone to changing at the whim of the writers(Maleficent’s totally dead guys etc.). i’m just really mad that nobody thought to call out this post, for how awful SQers are meant to be, this really takes the cake. please stop kicking the underdog. that is bullying.
I don't cause commotions, I am one.
It’s like that one SwanQueen fan that insisted that SQ was in all the writing and acting because that is what she saw and anything else was caving into homophobia. I don’t think it is fair to the writers, creators and actors on the show to act like you, a fan, know their character/show better than they do.
Alright, here’s the problem with this.
There likely aren’t any queer people on the writing staff of OUAT. Most of them probably don’t know what queer romance looks like, how people’s sexuality develop or who it would make sense to have as a queer character. They know little about balancing het vs. homosexual relationships.
The problem with making them an absolute authority on what works on their show, is that it’s defending a heteronormative & cisnormative standard. It’s not more important that they get to tell us about their adventures in heteronormativity queer exclusion than it is that we get decent queer representation.
When the queer community tells you a relationship would make sense, you should consider it. Painting us as the bullies is wrong because we do not have the institutional power to force these things. Rather – het relationships are forced on us constantly. The assumption here is that there is nothing homophobic in the motive for Swan Queen not been seen as a valid ship and I contest that.
Let me tell you a bit how writing works – a lot of the best ideas develop without the writer being fully conscious of it. Sometimes when you’re writing – a character, or interaction between characters surprises you. You end up taking things on a whole new path. This is even more so when you have dozens or hundreds of people working on a TV show. It’s very hard to say anything is or isn’t intentional as an absolute – a great example of this is the Bering & Wells ship from Warehouse 13, which started out as having similar chemistry as Swan Queen, and then the actresses ran with it. It effectively became canon, as a result, until the writers straightwashed Myka in the final season. Which still hurts. A lot. I guess they were just friends after all?
Nobody would go to such lengths to defend a relationship needing to remain platonic as people do for Swan Queen(or ships like Bering/Wells), for a het relationship. It would be a sure indication of a crush or sexual tension.
I’m saying there is homophobic – or rather heternormative motive for Swan Queen not being a thing and there being such opposition to it and I’m tired of people acting persecuted for being called out on that. We all live in a society that is to some degree, homophobic, and puts queer people on a lower rung of importance, including us from representation in all sorts of things. This has a knock on effect, and you’re seeing it in the OUAT fandom. If cannon queer ships were a more common thing, you wouldn’t see the same scuffling.
So again – no, I don’t have sympathy for the writers having “their” story being messed with. Because there are any number of somewhat problematic stalkerish het romance stories out there. It’s much more important, for once, we get to have a gay disney princess type.
I don't cause commotions, I am one.
Just got done reading this meta on which ship’ the poster thinks in most popular & why- I found some points rather interesting:
Anonymous said: Do you think Captain Swan is the most popular ship? Or do you think it’s Swan Queen, Rumbelle, or Snowing? Lol I know it isn’t Swanfire. Sorry but not sorry lol. CS just seems to get so much hate though, but maybe this is due to their popularity?? I don’t really pay attention to polls or facebook etc…Just what I see on tumblr and twitter Hmmm, good question and hard to pin point, but….I’ll come out and say that I do think CS is probably the most popular ship and find my reasons below: Aside from a few vocal, whiney fans, the only polls SF ever wins are “worst couple” or Bagel’s still leading in “Dead Man Walking”. Even somewhat SMF positive sites admit Bagel’s incredibly unpopular. Snowing is largely out because while they are the core family, etc—-they’re really only moderately popular separately and they’ve become quite boring and back burnered. While I don’t take internet polls as gospel (more on that later), Snowing generally barely even registers. tbh, I didn’t even know there WERE still Snowing shippers That said, about polls: internet polls are painfully unscientific—-a group of rabid fans, quickly clearing cookies is all that’s needed to completely skew the results of poll, rendering it meaningless. And nowhere do we see this more than with SQ. Why am I convinced SQ isn’t the most popular? To begin, it’s a crack!ship, so it’s hard, honestly to take it seriously to begin with. Even if many people did support it, most viewers of a show still go with actual, cannon pairings, not fantasy. Not only is it a crack!ship, it’s a crack!ship that will never, ever happen. However, I do think they’re rather vociferous fan base that for some reason feels by winning internet polls (though whatever means necessary), they’ll achieve legitimacy. Ironically, they’re remarkably similar to the Tea Party—-they’re insular (“everyone I know is SQ/a tea partier”) and assume that yelling loudly translates to hard numbers (it doesn’t, with the Tea Party, scientifically conducted polls show only 20% of the country views them in any sort of positive light, down by almost half in just 4 years). Rumbelle is the only ship that’s close or might even beat CS in popularity, in fact many CSers also support Rumbelle. For a variety of reasons, I personally don’t (among other things, SparkleDark much more interesting bad)——but I actually suspect overall most people aren’t all that invested in them. Again, their fans are simply very, very loud. As for why CS engenders so much hate—-here’s an interesting thing diehard SF, SQ and Rumbelle all have in common (and again, share with the Tea Party), even as they’re loudly insisting they’re the most popular, they’re gonna win, stupid , delusional CS losers….they’re also all painting themselves as victims when their ship’s storyline doesn’t go as planned. Even though Rumbelle is a cannon ship and it’s clearly the show’s style to put couples through hell, its shippers are endlessly whining about this. With SF, Bagel is generally in the background to begin with, and the show is pretty obvious about its CS leanings——so there’s a lot of whining, SQ is never gonna happen. So CS is seen the obstacle and the showrunners, the actors and the CS shippers are targets of the other ships’ frustrations. Or more simply, they’re jealous and act like petty b!%@hes because of it. Other sources supporting CS’s popularity: contrary to what other ships claim, ABC’s publicity department is NOT incompetent, they heavily feature Colin because he’s money and what the fans want. Simple, recent example? Today’s VD cards on the Once FB page—-Hook’s received over 100K “likes”, the next most “liked” was Charmz’s at 39K, and this is consistent for Colin’s FB pictures. CS is constantly getting press coverage, being recognized as best this or best that. No other couple makes that extensive a cross over impression. Which translates to not only does the devoted, online fandom (which actually represents a very small percentage of viewership as a whole) like CS, the casual viewer does too. So in reality, there’s no question CS is the most popular girl in school! P.S. sorry this got so long. You hit a subject I’m fascinated by and love to discuss!
http://zumpie.tumblr.com/post/76709008572/do-you-think-captain-swan-is-the-most-popular-ship-or The person makes some good points- Although I dont agree with everything they’ve said, there’s a few generalizations in there that I dont quite agree with.
It’s funny how I don’t see any of the Het ships being called “Crack” ships. You cannot pretend homophobia has no part to play in that. Swanqueen would not be called a crack ship if it was a het ship. Full stop.
My own thoughts on this. Some bad language and general frustration over being oppressed:
Also we don’t even get a thread and you guys have to keep attacking us? Really?
I don't cause commotions, I am one.
Crystal Princess, I believe POM was talking specifically about a group of Oncers whom happen to ship SQ -in this instance, who were actively campaigning to hijack a Q&A with inappropriately aggressive & assumptive Questions, in a public forum where there are little children in the audience- I dont care what gender anyone is, nor their race or their sexual orientation- when young children are involved, you dont actively aim to degrade others in front of them to vent your frustrations, there is absolutely no reason for it & it’s one of the main ways hate is spread.
POM pointed out that there are ways & ways of voicing objections & I dont disagree with her there, The old saying “you trap more flies with Honey than vinegar” comes to mind 😉
I personally dont have an issue with most SQ shippers or SQ as a crack ship, nor with LGBT couples being on the show- I want to see one for a change- I have a couple of lesbian & gay friends, as well as a bisexual family member, but I’m not going to ship SQ or any other LGBT couple I dont think should be together to prove I’m not homophobic :/ Nor am going to accept it being implied or be told I am homophobic by someone who doesnt know me from a bar of soap, simply because I dont agree that being a bully, to either make a point or get what you want is OK >:(
Gender & racial discrimination goes both ways- I’m sure LGBT people do not like people insisting they are straight, they just dont know it- so why is it ok for LGBT fans to insist the writers are writing SQ on purpose, they just dont know it, it’s that “Do to others as you would have them do to you” thing.
Do I know how it feels to be discriminated against for being LGBT- No, because I’m not LGBT, but it doesnt mean I cant empathize & understand where people who have been are coming from or what it would be like.
However by the same token, I wont sit here & say I was really loving all the septic crap being thrown about by “some” SQ shippers at that point in time it does have a negative impact on the ship as a whole- the same applies to ANY septic shippers- from Snowing, Rumbelle, CS, SF etc. & all crack ships out there. Sadly some people seem to have decided that the Once fandom is the ‘perfect’ place to make a political stand, kind of silly given this is the fantasy play land from A&E brains- not reality. If the show really isnt working for these people, there are other shows out there to watch- the writers, actors & other fans of a magical fantasy show Do Not Need To Be Made The Targets Of Septic Fans, Shipping Frustrations.
I hope this post is coherent, if not sorry, will try edit it later tonight- I’m rushing as have to be out the door in 2mins!There are bullies and unpleasant personalities in all the ships. No ship is excluded. And some hideous things have been said and done in the Oncer community by every single extreme element of every ship. Bullying comes from an innate sense of blistering insecurity, not power. It would be a better place if ALL the harassment/bullying went away, including any from SwanQueen or Captain Swan extremes. But it won’t. Us and them mentality does nothing to further anyone’s cause. Score-keeping is an effort in futility.
I can’t speak for PoM and don’t need to. I see that out-of- context quote as a frustration over very crappy, human behavior. And there is plenty of it everywhere in this fandom.
There is also a very open policy here to start any thread you want. About any topic. However, no one can be forced to participate anywhere or join in on a thread that they are not interested in discussing. You can call anyone out over anything that bothers you. No one is stopping your discussions or opinions or complaints. But no one has to join in just because you have them. They will gather and talk about what interests them.
That is the nature of every message board anywhere on the Internet.
For my part, I will continue to talk about the joy and fun I find in the Captain Swan camaraderie in this thread. I am not interested in SwanQueen, here, and won’t react to attempts of being shamed, patronized or scolded for not being an active participant in something that I don’t see~ as it is written~ nor is of personal interest to me, in my enjoyment of a TV show. No matter who thinks I should, for whatever reason. To each their own joy.
***Always in search of a good flock***
As far as Emma pulling away, I dont mind that we’ll it again, it’s keeping with in Emma’s character- I just hope it’s not as ‘full on’ as it was last season, since it is cannon/ fact Emma dropped her walls for that last kiss, so she’s knows she can do it & love
Otherwise it could get very stale, very quickly.Well if it’s Emma pulling away because she’s feeling guilty over ruining Regina’s relationship, that makes sense. I don’t think it will last long. I mean we’ve already seen in the official promos that Hook and Emma seem to be teaming up again, and in the sneaky bts photos we’ve seen a couple little tender moments, a kiss (full on one at that), and a date so I’m not too worried it will be drawn out like last season. Besides, Emma’s already said she’s not running away anymore, so she’ll have to face up to her feelings sooner than later. Unless Hook does something stupid that sets them both back…
I’m willing to give Snow the benefit of the doubt for last season’s annoyance. If I woke up one morning and was nine months pregnant, I think I would be justified in feeling a little self-centred/anxious/demanding.
And tbh, I don’t think she’ll have any issue with Emma and Hook being together. She didn’t overreact when Emma told Snow she had kissed Hook in Neverland, she just asked ‘why?’ which is perfectly reasonable. It’s David who has his ‘daddy armour’ up when it comes to Emma and boys. And I think that’s actually quite cute.
Yeah, thats kind of what I’m thinking about with Emma’s pulling away as well & as for Snow- Good point about the missing year + preggers thing… although, she was pushy before they got cursed back to FTL, so now I’m on the fence again lol…. I just hope we get to see bad ass Snow again 😉
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