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@KFChimera wrote:
What I meant was, when I see one sided things like that poster a few pages back implying Hook is the only one who’s “come back” for Emma, it just triggers me to start thinking of all the things that are misleading about this statement as well as other statements that are too one-sided. Leaving aside Hook’s motivations and the bits on August and Neal–how could anyone fault Snowing for putting Baby Emma in the wardrobe when the choice was do that or let her be killed by the Queen’s men? Their original plan was for Snow to go with Emma. We aren’t supposed to infer lack of love for Emma by their actions–we are supposed to infer they loved her very much and had a very hard choice to make. Season 1 hammers this home a lot–sometimes people who love you have to leave you to give you your best shot at a better life. It isn’t that they didn’t fight hard enough for you–but some fights are too stacked to win (without some miracle plot armor or something).
Whatever pain Emma faced as an abandoned child in horrible foster systems, it is something she works through over the course of Season 2. It’s not an instant forgiveness and trust, but it is something that takes time to build, but Emma understands intellectually their sacrifice long before she does so emotionally. Snow didn’t “come back” for Emma–but she was willing to sacrifice being with Charming for her (though the plan fell through), and did sacrifice that when she came after Emma when she jumped into a portal when Emma was falling through. So in my mind, while I might sometimes find Snow to be a bit dramatic/sanctimonious, there ought to be no doubt that Emma loves them and they love her at the end of the finale. Emma isn’t that abandoned loner anymore, just waiting for someone to choose her, to fight for her. She knows her parents would die for her.
Got ya – I see what you mean now.
I tend to take almost everything with a grain of salt when it comes to interpretations (as a couple of times, even in this thread, I haven’t totally agreed with certain hard core statements & I’ve even made some myself in the heat of the moment), so I tend to look for the truths behind the statement- why do they feel so strongly about it & pull those parts out of a post & just mention confirmed details, which may have been forgotten or over looked in the heat of posting.I think I posted something along these lines many pages back now, Hook being the only one to come back for Emma, is more he is the only unrelated character to Emma (ie. he has no blood or familial bond/obligation/drive binding him to return to/for her), who has come back to her- he is the one person she hasn’t had to go find herself 1st.
I’ll try & break this down into easy chunks-
1st yes, Snowing unwillingly chose to send Emma away, However it’s important to remember they are a Prince & Queen with the well being of an entire kingdoms populace on their shoulders, so they choose to do it to save not only themselves & Emma, but EVERY SINGLE being in EF (A&E confirmed this beginning of S2)- as rulers they had no choice, Emma had to be sacrificed for the good of ALL, it wasn’t simply for the benefit of Emma herself (whether they loved her or not, doesn’t change the fact she spent almost 3 decades searching for them because they had to save everyone in their kingdom). It also important to remember Snowing didn’t want to let Emma go through after she was born because Snow couldn’t go through with her- kingdom be damned, but being the people they are, they had to think of everyone & not just themselves & Emma, nor I guess did they fully considered what Emma would go through in sending her through the portal on her own, they only knew she would escape the curse, survive & not know who they were & in return the entire kingdom would be saved. As an aside, not that it will change anything, but I do have to wonder if they would make the same choice over again knowing what Emma went through.
Also until A&E say Regina would have killed Emma, we don’t know that for sure & it is simply pure speculation- esp given she had already enacted the curse, which means she would have broken it before she got to enjoy seeing Snow suffer, so I highly doubt she would have killed Emma- remember they could kill her, she couldn’t touch them in EF & if she couldn’t hang around & watch Snow suffering (which is what she wanted), what good would killing Emma & breaking the curse while still in EF be to her- they kill her as soon as the guards found her with Snow- if Snow didn’t do it herself. Personally I think she would have given Emma to someone else in town or kept her close to her, ensuring she didn’t die & thus break the curse- that would just add to her enjoyment of Snow’s suffering.2nd Henry was the 1st person to actively go find Emma- however one could argue that Emma wasn’t looking for Henry, so that doesn’t count- which is fair enough- gotta love the conversations I have with myself over these things 😉 So I don’t see the Hook coming back as belittling Henry either.
3rd Snow going after Emma in the portal, was a mother going after her daughter, A&E said this in one of the official podcasts, so it is confirmed fact- they also said that Snow realized just how deeply they had hurt & damaged Emma by sending her away, so Snow had to follow- a parents sacrifice is one thing, a strangers sacrifice is another, so again I don’t see Hook coming back as belittling this, as they are both very different circumstances. The love of a parent for their child should always trump romantic love- true or not, as far as I’m concerned.
So to that end, I simply see the above for what it is on the show, Emma having to search for Snowing, because they sent her away in the 1st place Vs Emma not having to go searching for Hook & the bean, because he choose to come back 1st- hope that makes sense.
I like you thought Emma had let her parents in, openly loved & trusted them now as well, but A&E said she hasn’t let them in yet (‘they try, but she hasn’t let them in”- only Henry is completely inside Emma’s circle of trust 😉 )- so I’m not sure what to think about it now … Personally I hope that “Mom, Dad” = Emma letting them in for S3E01, but this is A&E, so they could simply say ‘she thought they were all going to die, so dropped her guard in that moment (like she has in the past) & told them how she felt’, but the walls will be back up again for S3… I hope not though. Although unless they only have a couple of season left, I’ll doubt they’ll drop her mummy & daddy issues totally until close to the last season. So until Adam or Eddy say comment on the depth of her relationship status with her parents, I wont agree or disagree with you on what Emma does or doesn’t feel about her parents, because I simply haven’t seen A&E state it anywhere yet (other than what they said above).
I will make a disclaimer here- if this post is hard to head or makes no sense, I’m very sorry – I’m on meds, so have to work very hard not to addle things up atm & even then there’s no guarantee! It makes perfect sense when I read it, so I can only hope it does to the non-medicated too 😉
I’ll read your analysis in the morning obisgirl – I need sleep before I go cross eyed 😉
[adrotate group="5"]Welcome back Sarah! The most significant thing is probably Adam’s tweet in response to a question about a Hook-Emma-Neal triangle that it would be more like a rhombus. I don’t know how to embed tweets, but it’s been posted somewhere. I’m not sure if there’s been anything new since then, and with it being hiatus–it may be quiet for a bit unfortunately unless there’s another stray tweet.
@Surayya wrote:
I tend to take almost everything with a grain of salt when it comes to interpretations (as a couple of times, even in this thread, I haven’t totally agreed with certain hard core statements & I’ve even made some myself in the heat of the moment),
It’s a shipping thread–fair enough.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
Just found this article and wanted to share. I saw one of the quotes on tumblr and tracked it down. Needed some happy Hook / CS news with the day I’ve been having.
The article is from back in Feb but it has some cute stuff about Colin, twitter and a big chunk on Colin’s audition and how well-liked Hook is by the people on the show directly from Kitsis (with his wife weighing in on the auditioning process – go Kitsis’ wife! – sorry I don’t know her name…) Love her reaction and what the other female executives were saying too! (And this is from all the way back in Feb! First time I’ve been happy about “old” news in a long time). *clings to anything remotely hopeful & happy*
Here’s the part specifically with Kitsis’ comments:
“I will tell you, from the moment Colin auditioned, and I was home and watching it, [it was clear,]” Kitsis said. “My wife never watches auditions with me, and I’m seeing it, staring at it like I’m transfixed, and I hear this, ‘You better (please avoid obscenities) hire him.’ And I turn around and it’s my wife. I’ve never seen a reaction to anybody like I’ve seen with Colin. Like, it’s crazy. Network executives, I have a lot of female executives and they’re like, ‘Is Hook in this one?’ And I’m like, ‘What?’ And they’re like, ‘Can Hook be here?’ [My reply is] ‘This scene is just Henry alone on a slide.’ [And they joke] ‘That’s all right: Hook likes playgrounds!’ Colin has just done an unbelievable job and the character is so much fun.”
<3 it!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
Just found this article and wanted to share. I saw one of the quotes on tumblr and tracked it down. Needed some happy Hook / CS news with the day I’ve been having.
The article is from back in Feb but it has some cute stuff about Colin, twitter and a big chunk on Colin’s audition and how well-liked Hook is by the people on the show directly from Kitsis (with his wife weighing in on the auditioning process – go Kitsis’ wife! – sorry I don’t know her name…) Love her reaction and what the other female executives were saying too! (And this is from all the way back in Feb! First time I’ve been happy about “old” news in a long time). *clings to anything remotely hopeful & happy*
Here’s the part specifically with Kitsis’ comments:
“I will tell you, from the moment Colin auditioned, and I was home and watching it, [it was clear,]” Kitsis said. “My wife never watches auditions with me, and I’m seeing it, staring at it like I’m transfixed, and I hear this, ‘You better (please avoid obscenities) hire him.’ And I turn around and it’s my wife. I’ve never seen a reaction to anybody like I’ve seen with Colin. Like, it’s crazy. Network executives, I have a lot of female executives and they’re like, ‘Is Hook in this one?’ And I’m like, ‘What?’ And they’re like, ‘Can Hook be here?’ [My reply is] ‘This scene is just Henry alone on a slide.’ [And they joke] ‘That’s all right: Hook likes playgrounds!’ Colin has just done an unbelievable job and the character is so much fun.”
<3 it!
Haha, love it 😀
Hook is another example of how great a job they did with the casting on this show.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
@KFChimera wrote:
@Surayya wrote:
I tend to take almost everything with a grain of salt when it comes to interpretations (as a couple of times, even in this thread, I haven’t totally agreed with certain hard core statements & I’ve even made some myself in the heat of the moment),
It’s a shipping thread–fair enough.
Exactly, which was part of the point- given this is a shipping thread, hard line statements will be made against opposing ships. so if Neal is your favorite character, you are gonna have to be prepared to see & hear him cast in a not so favorable/positive light with regards to Emma, while in a CS thread- it’s just the nature of shipping threads- it’s no different than SF, Rumbelle, FrankenWolf etc threads (I’m sure people wouldn’t dream of going into a Rumbelle thread & complain about the lack of positive posts for the Cora/Rumple paring if she was their fav, nor a SF thread & expect to see people rallying for Hook’s POV with favorable CS posts if he was their fav etc).
As I said before, there is a distinct difference between bashing the actual character & not having a favorable opinion on a certain character pairing with another.As far as I can recall there hasn’t been any actual ‘bashing’ of Neal or SF shippers in this thread- he has mostly been talked about in reference to reasons why we ship CS over SF & as above, hard line statements will be made- it’s the nature of the thread- even if most of us do like Neal &/or Love little Bae- this is still the CS thread.
I honestly cant remember any mention of Neal that doesn’t have a correlation to Emma or Hook & therefore CS, so I don’t see anyone as having crossed any lines into ‘bashing’ & while I may not agree with every said, I do agree with much of what is said- ranting or not (but I suppose that’s because Hook/Killian & Emma are my both my very favs {followed closely by Snowing} & I ship CS 😉 ).
Anyway… back to lighter things, like the joys of shipping CS 😀
Here are some neat CS themed pics I found on my online wanderings & thought I’d shared for everyone’s enjoyment-
Tangled/CS
POC/CS
Obisgirl your analysis was interesting & made some very valid points.
I agree with all most everything you said 🙂😀 Just saw this on tumblr & had to share:
http://captainswanouat.tumblr.com/post/51655090405/xEdited to add also found this on the same tumblr account:
“Look, I gave the book to him because I wanted Henry to have the most important thing anyone can have. Hope. Believing in even the possibility of a happy ending can be a very powerful thing.” — Mary Margaret to Emma, 1×01 ‘Pilot’
“What I’ve tried to maintain within her is that there is always this flame of hope, even if it’s the tiniest flame. […] there is this little flame, and you see glimpses of it at times with the Sheriff and with Hook.” — Jennifer Morrison
So we see here, Snow is telling us point blank that the single most important thing in life is hope. They told us this right from the get-go, in the pilot. It’s a very strong element reinforced time and time again in this show. The writers always say, “have hope” and we’ve seen that it’s important, both in show canonically and out of show canonically.
JMO literally plays Emma maintaining a little flame of hope inside her — keeping in mind that hope is the most powerful thing there is — and we see glimpses of that with Graham (who it cannot be denied she cared about, had feelings for) and with Hook.
Hook. Not any other current suitor. Hook. That is significant. That is important.
As a side note, it’s quite clear — if not explicitly stated — that Neal took Emma’s hope away. His actions in leaving her in prison for 11 months, pregnant and alone, took away all of her hope that she could be love. All of the hope that there could be someone out there who wouldn’t leave her.
While I dont totally agree with the last point, it is a very, very nice catch 😀
Obisgirl you weren’t kidding about Snow Falls & Tallahassee! I’m looking over the transcripts for earlier eps right now to jot down some thoughts / quotes (not gonna do the actual rewatch for a bit but I’m multi-tasking the fast way at the moment) and a lot of things jumped out at me that I remember from Snow Falls but never remotely connected to Tallahassee til now. Once I get it all sorted & grab screenshots I’ll post my thoughts on it all but it’s making me feel lots better so far! 🙂
Going to great lengths to back away a bit from what we think we’ve seen to what was actually shown and taking the shipper goggles off to a degree (when I find something positive for CS of course I’m happy but I’m also trying to analyze everything here on top of the million other things I’m doing.)
I’ve noticed many times in the past dealing with completely unrelated stuff, that sometimes we’re pretty darn sure that so and so said this when in actuality, the wording was quite different (anybody remember how many times we’ve been around the bend and back on where Bae was supposed to end up because the BF said he was supposed to go to a land without magic except that she didn’t actually say that to him? Yeah me neither – I’ve lost track).
So I’m trying to *really* focus on the source material as much as I love the thoughts that I’ve been seeing about anything shipper-related. With a long summer and an already heated mess of a triangle, it can’t hurt to go back and see what we really have to work with and have actual things to show for it.
No idea how to put all these things together. Lists will certainly come in handy but some stuff it’s hard to show the similarities without lots of screenshots too. I’ll figure something out when I’m not so tired but loving all the stuff you guys have been sharing here and looking forward to more!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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