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@MysteryKat25 wrote:
So I’m trying to *really* focus on the source material as much as I love the thoughts that I’ve been seeing about anything shipper-related. With a long summer and an already heated mess of a triangle, it can’t hurt to go back and see what we really have to work with and have actual things to show for it.
No idea how to put all these things together. Lists will certainly come in handy but some stuff it’s hard to show the similarities without lots of screenshots too. I’ll figure something out when I’m not so tired but loving all the stuff you guys have been sharing here and looking forward to more!
I look forward to your analysis & agree that a number of the parallels on the show are simply to hard to show without pics or gifs.
[adrotate group="5"]Sadly I have no idea how to make gifs, I just enjoy looking at them! Hopefully I can capture what I need to in order to explain with just screenshots (and figure out a concise way to put them together and show what I need them to show.
There are many things with just the wording, but a lot of the biggest set-up, especially for ships, just can’t be done without the pictures! Quotes will only get you so far but with so many parallels being done with the imagery it’s important to include it in the analysis for sure.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
@Surayya wrote:
Exactly, which was part of the point- given this is a shipping thread, hard line statements will be made against opposing ships. so if Neal is your favorite character, you are gonna have to be prepared to see & hear him cast in a not so favorable/positive light with regards to Emma, while in a CS thread- it’s just the nature of shipping threads- it’s no different than SF, Rumbelle, FrankenWolf etc threads (I’m sure people wouldn’t dream of going into a Rumbelle thread & complain about the lack of positive posts for the Cora/Rumple paring if she was their fav, nor a SF thread & expect to see people rallying for Hook’s POV with favorable CS posts if he was their fav etc).
As I said before, there is a distinct difference between bashing the actual character & not having a favorable opinion on a certain character pairing with another.That is NOT what I was talking about. I never said there have to be equal positive threads or posts about the characters/ships or anything like that. Negativity breeds negativity. It quickly snowballs and gets out of hand.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
SwanFire needs to happen so that Emma can get Neal out of her system so that her moving on to someone else feels natural and not a get back at Neal fling.
Emma does still have feelings for Neal, hence why she was getting jealous over Neal and Tamara, but the fact Neal essentially abandoned Emma is something that can’t just be forgotten. Emma may forgive Neal for what he did, she may try and make it work again with him, but she will always have that little worry that he might just up and abandon her again.
Hook and Emma have a lot in common and understand each other but are they too similar to each other that they can’t truly trust one another? Both have been willing to throw the other under the bus- Emma left Hook at the top of the beanstalk, and Hook has switched sides repeatedly depending on which side served him better. He helped Emma and Snow because they were safer company than Cora then switched back to Cora and worked against Snow and Emma. He then helped GOAT because they promised him Rumple’s death then switched sides to help the Charmings because he didn’t want to die. Hook came back because he felt guilty about Bae which all ties back to his feelings about Milah.
Milah and Bae are going to be the ghosts in a CaptainSwan relationship. Question is, will Emma and Hook be able to truly put those ghosts to rest?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix@PriceofMagic wrote:
Milah and Bae are going to be the ghosts in a CaptainSwan relationship. Question is, will Emma and Hook be able to truly put those ghosts to rest?
I think Hook’s already started letting go but letting go of his revenge in the finale. Think about it, that’s been his biggest preoccupation for almost 300 years. That’s a really long grudge.
I think Emma got over Neal a long time ago, but if there’s still some lingering feelings there, it wouldn’t be romantic feelings. It would all lead back to abandonment issues.
Another CS parallel from season one, This one relates to he who shall not be named.
“THANK YOU”
Read Hook’s lips. He says “Thank you” right as he looked up and made eye-contact with Emma. He may only be pretending to be saved but if you would please recall and think about this…
Graham’s final words to Emma are “THANK YOU.”
Then Hook’s first words to Emma are “THANK YOU.”
@KFChimera wrote:
That is NOT what I was talking about. I never said there have to be equal positive threads or posts about the characters/ships or anything like that. Negativity breeds negativity. It quickly snowballs and gets out of hand.
Ok, then I’m confused about what your post was in aid of then? (I’m honestly unclear here, so please don’t take it as an insult or anything).
Fact: This is a shipping thread about CS, so Hook & Emma’s relationship by definition is cast in the favorable {‘positive’} light- everyone-else with possible romantic ties to her will NOT be cast in a favorable or {‘positive’} light…. no bashing of opposing characters has gone on, only unfavorable {‘negative’} statements (based of facts/events from events on the show), have been made with regards to ‘others’ being in an ‘endgame’ or long term relationship with Emma- there is no way around those types of comments in a shipping thread– hence my confusion??? (If people were hammering Neal as a character outside of his relationship/actions with Emma/Hook ie- saying he should die, or he’s beyond forgiveness etc, then I would understand, but so far that has not happened).Yes, negativity breeds negativity, however as I keep pointing out, there is a big distinction between bashing characters (because you don’t like them) & having an opposing pairing, cast in an unfavorable/ ‘negative’ light based on the events taking place on the show.
ie. No one is saying Neal is a horrid person/character, we are saying we think the idea of SF is horrid given the way things stand now with-in the frame work of the show itself– that is a big difference & perfectly acceptable given this is a shipping thread for Hook & Emma.
Hence my confusion over your posts.Oh! Just had an epiphany! … Could the problem be that Neal has actually done some pretty nasty stuff to Emma- which is fact on the show- the fall out of which, has been drummed into us for 2full seasons, so naturally it gets brought up a lot?
Since what Neal did, affected Emma in a deeply negative way, he is discussed & compared unfavorably/ ‘negatively’ to CS over & over again based on those actions- so I guess if you love Neal, you may get defensive about it, but it honestly cant be helped, because he did what he did & it isn’t actually attacking him as a character (although it may feel like it if he is your fav).
When & if the consequences of his actions get resolved, then I suppose they wont be mentioned near as often & therefore Neal wont be discussed about as often in an unfavorable/’negative’ light, as he will have less unfavorable/’negative’ aspects with regards to Emma/ CS (on account of having redeemed his relationship with her) to be discussed in general. If you are a Neal lover, who also happens to like shipping CS, I guess it will just be a waiting game, until the time comes for Neal to be redeemed in that way, so the heat is off of him in this regard for comparisons.I personally think this is one of the more open minded shipping threads, because most, if not all of us, either don’t dislike, or actually do like Neal/Bae as a character/s & want him to be happy (preferably with someone other than Emma 😉 ), so want to understand SF shippers point of view- we just don’t promote SF views or Neal with-in THIS particular thread.
This thread however should be a safe place to let off steam with others who feel & ship the same as you do, so the odd rant when bombarded by supporters of opposing ships to let off steam is inevitable & I’d hate to think a CS ship mate thought they couldn’t let off steam in a thread promoting their ship, for fear it would be seen as bashing another character.
I guess I just feel that a rant should be seen for what it is (in the context we’ve seen them in so far on this thread)- letting off steam among like minded individuals 🙂Maybe we can hand out Valerian cookies when we feel a shipmate is in need in the future 🙂 😉
@PriceofMagic wrote:
SwanFire needs to happen so that Emma can get Neal out of her system so that her moving on to someone else feels natural and not a get back at Neal fling.
I think almost everyone feels Emma needs to get Neal out of her system & get that past stuff sorted out once & for all.
@PriceofMagic wrote:
Emma does still have feelings for Neal, hence why she was getting jealous over Neal and Tamara, but the fact Neal essentially abandoned Emma is something that can’t just be forgotten. Emma may forgive Neal for what he did, she may try and make it work again with him, but she will always have that little worry that he might just up and abandon her again.
Again, I think everyone knows this to be true (A&E have confirmed it- so it is fact, that she still loves him). It’s just the “type” of love that is currently questioned- ie, Romantic, Friends, remembered 1st/ lost love, love of father of her child etc. & I think we all agree on her having issues creep in if she was to get back with Neal.
@PriceofMagic wrote:
Hook and Emma have a lot in common and understand each other but are they too similar to each other that they can’t truly trust one another? 1) Both have been willing to throw the other under the bus- Emma left Hook at the top of the beanstalk, and Hook has switched sides repeatedly depending on which side served him better. 2) He helped Emma and Snow because they were safer company than Cora then switched back to Cora and worked against Snow and Emma. 3) He then helped GOAT because they promised him Rumple’s death then 4) switched sides to help the Charmings because he didn’t want to die. 5) Hook came back because he felt guilty about Bae which all ties back to his feelings about Milah.
Good question. I think we have to take circumstance into account in answering it tho. I’d say ‘no, they are not to much alike’, for these reasons:
1) Emma did that solely because of the depth of trust issues from the Neal fall out (A&E confirmed this).
2) Hook is supposed to be a villain/pirate, yet he trusted Emma totally & was genuinely helping Emma & Snow to get home (again A&E confirmed), when she went & betrayed him- his reaction to that (her leaving him in FTL after having helping her to get home), was to do what he had done for 300yrs previously- relay on himself & do right by himself above all others 1st. In Hook’s case that meant doing what was needed in order to get his revenge 1st & foremost. Emma left no other option for that, than teaming back up with Cora (despite the fact he didn’t like her ‘extreme’ methods- again A&E confirmed), as she was his only other means to get to Rumple (it wasn’t just him being ticked with Emma- there was the fact they weren’t likely to let him go with them anyway, so what choice did he have). Unlike most our other villains, Killian has a code of ethics that he lives by & that colours his actions as Hook, which is why we wanted to go with Emma & Co- he didn’t like what Cora did.
3) Again he had little choice if he wanted his life long goal of revenge- Regina & Cora had betrayed him, nothing he could do would work on Rumple (he’s not magic & Rumple is), GOAT simply offered him the only chance of revenge he had left to him at that point & he took it, but…
4) At that stage he had started to realize there was more to life & to live for, than revenge, esp if the other person had totally moved on (again A&E confirmed), so when they told him his revenge would cost him his life & everyone elses, he had grown enough that his revenge was no longer a good enough reason to die (remember when Rumple was hitting him on the JR with his cane- Hook was more than ready to die for his revenge) & that is why he changed sides (since A&E said he had an issue with Cora killing an entire village, it is also entirely possible he had an issue with GOAT killing everyone in SB too)- not ‘just’ because he didn’t want to die.
5) That was part of the reason he went back, but to them, Neal is presumed dead at this point, so unless A&E say it was the “only” reason he went back, it is pure speculation to say it is. Other factors were in play- as when Emma said “I thought you didn’t care about anyone but yourself?” Killian replied “Maybe I just needed reminding that I could” It can be argued that Emma’s offer struck home upon reflection, as Emma offered Hook the same thing Hook offered Bae- a place to belong/ family, this will likely have had a large impact on his decision to return.@PriceofMagic wrote:
Milah and Bae are going to be the ghosts in a CaptainSwan relationship. Question is, will Emma and Hook be able to truly put those ghosts to rest?
Again good question, but as Obisgiril said, they already are starting to- Hook definitely has (he has put aside 300yrs of revenge for his murdered lover to go out of his way, in order to help Emma) & Emma has in many ways too (Graham & the fact she felt she could actually trust Killian/Hook enough to the point it scared her into feeling she had to lock him up), but I think it will be harder for her until she gets some resolution for what actually happened, up until present.
Suraya, no that is not it. I feel like I’ve already explained it, and I think others got what I meant based on their replies.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
@PriceofMagic wrote:
SwanFire needs to happen so that Emma can get Neal out of her system so that her moving on to someone else feels natural and not a get back at Neal fling.
Emma does still have feelings for Neal, hence why she was getting jealous over Neal and Tamara, but the fact Neal essentially abandoned Emma is something that can’t just be forgotten. Emma may forgive Neal for what he did, she may try and make it work again with him, but she will always have that little worry that he might just up and abandon her again.
Hook and Emma have a lot in common and understand each other but are they too similar to each other that they can’t truly trust one another? Both have been willing to throw the other under the bus- Emma left Hook at the top of the beanstalk, and Hook has switched sides repeatedly depending on which side served him better. He helped Emma and Snow because they were safer company than Cora then switched back to Cora and worked against Snow and Emma. He then helped GOAT because they promised him Rumple’s death then switched sides to help the Charmings because he didn’t want to die. Hook came back because he felt guilty about Bae which all ties back to his feelings about Milah.
Milah and Bae are going to be the ghosts in a CaptainSwan relationship. Question is, will Emma and Hook be able to truly put those ghosts to rest?
I like the points you made Price. I think the biggest obstacle for both CaptainSwan and SwanFire is Emma herself. I don’t know how much she is willing to put herself out there again to get hurt. Both men also have lots of baggage too. I think there will be a struggle for Emma to start a romantic relationship with either guy. Look how long it took for her to open up to her son and parents!
Find me on tumblr: http://allthatglittersonce.tumblr.com
I agree AllthatGlitters. Of course it is a show centered around hope so Emma is capable of forgiveness & believes in second chances. She is never going to be an open, heart on her sleeve type, but she is certainly less walled off and alone than she was when the series started. She will be cautious, but I think she already spent a long time waiting for Neal, so she is not going to need as long to process his “death”, but I think she does need to have Henry back, and ok first because that’s a lot of worry on her mind.
“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass
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