The Captain Swan thread!

[Jennifer]

I loved the date, but I thought the Hook/Rumple interactions were perfect.  I love how the two play off of each other.  And Rumple’s mindgames were great.  I love our pirate but he should know better than play like he did with Rumple.  Rumple is the King of Mind Games, he’s going to win.  Especially when backed into a corner, and especially when it comes to Belle.

yes you are so right.  Killian is so desperate that he is showing his hand and opening himself up to being totally manipulated.

Killian knows Rumple better than any other character on the show… he was obsessed for centuries and combine that with his serious knack for survival I would have expected him to be a little more wary and approached the confrontation with more respect for his adversary skills.  obviously not showing that to Rumple but Killian definitely needed a better plan.

Yes – loved the scenes with the 2 of them and i liked that it showed that they did not really forgive and forgot their history.  Just seemed more realistic.  I found it plausible that Hook gave up revenge for Emma but not that he totally forgot about his history with Rumple.

 

[Jenna_B]

surayya wrote:

@emmajones  @lumee23  @sweetgrass  @polythenepam havent been around in a while either… @Jennifer  @CaptainEala @Kelli Adkins  @jenven  @Aurora  @rogvortex58  @moraha @Vanessa  @zoeandnimo left last season (along with a flood of others) thanks to all the CS/Hook hate &  @rumplegoldfan cant get onto the CS thread- it comes up as hieroglyphics for her … seems this site has been hemorrhaging positive fans 

Pssst….Surayya, I think you calling the folks out is working…Jennifer and Lumee came back from the darkness!  🙂  Who’s next?  And lurkers who are lurking and haven’t posted – come say hi!

Congratulations Lumee!  Wonderful news!

In regard to the hand, I don’t believe Rumple cursed it.  I think Rumple knows exactly how to play Hook…and did so.  Although I don’t have the same problems with Hook trying to blackmail Rumple for his hand as others do, I do think Hook got what he deserved.  Rumple is the king of manipulation and a guy who’s been hunting him for 300 years should know that!  I think it will be interesting, though to see how these men parallel each other…both have a secret from their partner.  We know what Rumple will try to do – hide it from Belle as long as possible.  But will Hook fall into Rumple’s footsteps or did he learn his lesson last season when Zelena kissy-cursed him?  I’d like to think the writers are setting up this little scenario to show how different the men are, and how far Hook as come by having him tell Emma.

[callmeLola]

@surayya waves a magic wand and the lurkers come out to play,  YEA!!   @lumee congrats on the new baby, I hope you are both doing well, and welcome back (@Jennifer too).

@OnceABC twitter just posted this hilarious vine.  I don’t think they care if they get a barrage of hate about CS, they REALLY REALLY  want Killy and Emma taco-time.

<p>Maybe on the second date?? #CaptainSwan https://t.co/4xmt6ScV7w</p>— Once Upon A Time (@OnceABC) October 22, 2014

<script async src=”//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js” charset=”utf-8″></script>

[surayya]

1st things 1st ….

 @Lumee23 & @Jennifer 

Congratulations on your new arrival @Lumee23 😀

 

[surayya]

Snow.  She seems to finally be successfully marrying Mary Margaret-the friend with Snow White-the mom when it comes to Emma.  She was such the excited Mommy before her daughter’s first date and so the excited friend who wanted all the details when Emma got home – and most importantly, she seems to actually be listening to Emma, and seeing for herself how good Killian and Emma are for each other, and showing enthusiastic support.  Emma cannot be backed into a corner, and Snow finally seems to be understanding that – and supporting rather than projecting, which is of utmost importance if she’s going to have any kind of relationship with Emma.  David’s ‘dad’ routine is precious, and I love how Killian just gave him an indulgent smile, letting David have his Daddy moments when he picked Emma up.

I LOVED Snow this episode as well & agree she seems to be a nice merger of both MM & Snow atm- rather than one or the other.
Charming has been growing on me as well- I was having trouble with Charming’s attitude in s3 (ie. its a bit rich to call someone out on always being one thing & one thing only- when he himself was a shepherd before he was ever a prince lol), But he started to really strengthen as a character for me in the last couple of eps of S3 & seems to have solidified that into this great character in S4. I absolutely LOVE his Daddy moments with Emma, they are some of my absolute favorite moments of the whole series.

[surayya]

Is anyone else as confused as I am to whether Rumple actually *did* curse the hand or not? Before the episode I was happy for it to be a mind game, but seeing what Killian did and how upset he was with what he did and just how deep in dept he’s got himself in with Rumple now I want the hand to have been cursed. I bow to you, master manipulator Mr Stiltskin. I think he was at his Machiavellian best in this ep. Although Anna was exceptionally lucky to get the better of him. Wouldn’t be interesting if Hook got his hands on the dagger?

I am confused if canonically it was cursed or not- but what makes the most sense to me, since the ‘cursed’ bit didnt come until After Killian was honest about why he wanted the hand back, is that Rumple saw his vulnerability & went in for the kill (RC has said in an interview “[Rumple] doesn’t care about Hook. Hook came to him, so he started it. To Rumple, he deserves to die, but he deserved to die a long time ago because he tried to kill him, remember. So this is just sort of what goes around comes around.” {I’m assuming he’s referring to the poison hook in NY}… to me that paints a pretty stark picture of who Rumple really is atm- Killian was able to put aside his vengeance against Rumple, for Rumple’s murdering of his 1st love & the maiming of himself in order to move on, find happiness & love again; but Rumple cant/wont let go of his need for vengeance or payback in order to find happiness & love, he just seems to be focused on his own self gratification…. Which I’d find a lot more interesting if Killian wasnt involved lol 😉 )… anyway, where was I… I think Rumple double bluffed Killian, he told him the hand was cursed, as he knew Killian wouldnt believe him, rightly thinking he was just trying to mess with his head, then when Killian started doing OOC things with it, it sowed the seeds of doubt- was it the hand or was it him, after punching Will, he decided ‘crud it is cursed’ & went back to Rumple to backed him into a corner with the next part of the bluff- telling him the hand really isnt cursed- it’s just who he really is at heart, to make an already worried & vulnerable Killian wracked with self doubt & therefore easy pickings to back into a corner- because once you no longer believe in yourself & who you are, it isnt hard for others to take advantage of you (cue Anna Parallel).

Ohhhh, Killian getting his hand (almost wrote hands then lol) on the dagger would be a very nice twist, since the dynamic between them has never been even- At 1st Rumple was a cripple & Killian strong swashbuckling pirate, then Rumple was all powerful DO & Killian a magicless pirate, so there’s never really been a fair balance of power between them (until Killian realised Rumple was lying to Belle about the dagger) – Oh, it could be interesting if Killian somehow gets control of the hat, I mean that would put Rumple in his place- mess with Emma or Killy & you get sucked up the hat Imp 😉

 

I have had a passing thought, that if Hook tells Emma about his dealings with Rumple, could Hook sort of act as spy? Not that the Charmings need to spy on Rumple, but it would be handy to know what he’s up to esp in regard to the Snow Queen, and with Hook in ‘business’ with Rumple there’s a ready made mole.

Another good thought- I to wonder if Killian will cotton on to Rumple’s dealings with Snow Queen & funnel information to Emma & charming about her, it could also be what trips up Rumple where Belle is concerned- it’s one thing to be lying about about giving her the real dagger & using your powers to mess with people, but it’s another kettle of fish to be actively harming people (because I assume sucking people into a hat isnt ‘helping’ them), for your own selfish bid to gain more power with no way for it to be controlled, esp after she told him if he put aside his dark ways they could be together (or words to that effect).

I do admit I LOVE dark Imp Rumple- how I missed his gleeful maliciousness, but yeah- not liking Killian once again backed into a damned if he does, damned if he doesnt corner…again *sigh*

 

 

 

 

[surayya]

Don’t get me wrong, I want Snow to like Hook; I do but she was this way with Neal too without even bothering to get to know him or even have a conversation with him.

That’s a fair point, I’d like to see them get some one on one interaction as well, but I think given Ginny’s just had a baby, that unless they have Killian stay with her to guard her & Neil or something like that, then their interaction together will be limited on screen.

I do think now after watching the episode that Snow is Team Happiness for Emma and it doesn’t really matter who Emma is with as long as she’s happy; which is a good stance to take. I ‘ship Emma with happiness too but I want more than that from Snow. Hook needs to be accepted and cared about by all of the Charming family.

Agreed on Snow = team Happiness for Emma- that was my takeaway as well & I hope we get more interaction between them in the following eps, even if it is ‘group’ interaction, at least it will mean Snow is there & present to witness the changes & to interacting with him more…. I’d LOVE & do mean LOVE a Snowing & CS ‘family’ dinner together 😉 – who knows, maybe it’s Snow & Charming that tell Killian he’s part of their family now & want to know whats up, because they notice Emma is worried. I could live with that situation, with Killian spilling the beans to them & it going from there… I almost wonder if the CS/Hook/Rumple angst will be drawn out into part of the cliff hanger- I hope not, cause I might die if I had to wait that long for resolution 😉

[surayya]

I am loving this season so far!

Me too!!! 😀 😀 😀

 

So what is the consensus on the hand? Was it actually cursed and Rumple is playing mind games telling him it wasn’t so Hook thinks he hasn’t changed deep down? Or is Hook still having these pirate-y urges that he is apparently suppressing? I think Rumple is messing with his mind and he did curse the hand but that might just be my optimism/Hook favoritism.

Yep, agreed, see my double bluff theory- I may have over thought it a little I admit 😉

 

Hook blackmailing Rumple is obviously not nice but his intentions are a lot more honorable than Rumple. I think its a pretty stark contrast that Hook blackmailed Rumple to do things for Emma while Rumple is blackmailing Hook in order to increases his magic powers behind Belle’s back. Power is still more important to Rumple than love is. I wonder if he will be the big bad for 4B.

hmmmmmmmmmm, that’s a very intriguing thought that- Rumple being the big bad for a season/part season, like Regina used to be, I like- no LOVE that idea, it could be his version of ‘rock bottom’ before over coming his addiction to magic/power ….. this just went on my “wish list of things I hope they do” 😉

 

All this CS is making me spoiled

You & me both lol 😉

[surayya]

I guess I dont mind the Blackmailing… Rumple CUT OFF Killian’s hand for taking up with Milah – who LEFT Rumple.  Killian didnt steal her.  She was just counting her lucky stars that she found a hot pirate to leave with… but she was leaving by any means or man necessary make no mistake about it.  Whether she was right or wrong, that was on her. The looks on poor Killian’s face through the whole episode was so sad.

I admit, I’m totally with you on here- do I like the fact Killian pushed his advantage a little to hard & gave the DO a prime oppatunity to get inside his head- Nope- but I cant blame Killian for pushing Rumple like he did- Rumple was in the wrong for maiming Killian in the 1st place- he broke his deal with Milah by murdering her, maiming & tormenting Killian- that wasnt leaving them in peace & it also means he has broken more than one deal :/

I liked Rumple and as one person called him ‘IMP’ Rumple… but I thought that he was overcoming the dagger / DO’s power to be a better man.  But 4A so far is proving that he doesnt have the strength, fortitude or desire to really do that.  He is all talk and no action when it comes to being a better man for Belle and Bae’s memory.

THIS! My thought exactly! I love Imp Rumple (which he wasnt messing with Killy when Emma & he are finally so darn happy), but I thought Gold Rumple had learned something when he sacrificed himself to save his son… oh & Belle. I mean he makes this wonderful gesture of pure faith & trust in their love to Belle by giving her the dagger & in the next breath we find out 1) it’s fake, 2) he’s ok with murdering someone & covering it up after telling them all, he’s changed, 3) Is ok freezing his TL to avoid the consequences of his actions 4) At the 1st temptation, he ok with stealing the real dagger back for his own selfish gain 5) Makes Belle look a gullible fool by insisting she use the fake dagger on him to “prove” his innocence before witnesses. 6) When he’s caught lying about the dagger & compelled into helping track the Snow Queen & giving back something he took unjustly in the 1st place, his 1st thoughts are of vengeance & payback rather than to actually give the real dagger back to Belle to prevent further episodes of the same thing o.O The contrast between how much Killian had changed & Rumple hadnt was stark indeed this episode.

Belle deserves what she gets.  Fool me once shame on you, Fool me for the 500th time shame on me.  Not sure how big the speck of good inside of him is but she must have some giant magnifying glass at the library to see it.   A&E have Belle as Rumple’s Trophy Wife and for a character that is supposed to be so smart they make her so ignorant.  I cant feel bad for her or Rumple anymore.

I must admit, I almost to this point myself, on another site one poster made a very valid point re Belle:

Belle knows she married the Dark One, but the thing is she keeps pulling for him to change and he keeps not changing. If she were okay with him being dark, that’s one thing, but she’s really not. She says she loves him even with the darkness but her words and actions show that she really wants to change him, that if he doesn’t they can’t be together. “promise me and we can be together” is what she said. This is unfair. Yes he should change because being good is the right thing to do for himself and for everyone. But obviously he needs to make that choice on his own and not be backed into a corner like that. So in a way Belle disrespects him as well. Ultimatums are never the best option, especially with addicts. Giving someone an ultimatum makes a person feel like you are trying to control them, and with someone like Rumple, that’s just going to cause him to find a way to feel in control again.

[ellemo78]

Jennifer wrote:

I guess I dont mind the Blackmailing… Rumple CUT OFF Killian’s hand for taking up with Milah – who LEFT Rumple. Killian didnt steal her. She was just counting her lucky stars that she found a hot pirate to leave with… but she was leaving by any means or man necessary make no mistake about it. Whether she was right or wrong, that was on her. The looks on poor Killian’s face through the whole episode was so sad.

I admit, I’m totally with you on here- do I like the fact Killian pushed his advantage a little to hard & gave the DO a prime oppatunity to get inside his head- Nope- but I cant blame Killian for pushing Rumple like he did- Rumple was in the wrong for maiming Killian in the 1st place- he broke his deal with Milah by murdering her, maiming & tormenting Killian- that wasnt leaving them in peace & it also means he has broken more than one deal :/

I’m not convinced Rumple broke more than one deal. The deal for the bean was to let Milah and Killian go – actually thinking about it, did Rumple agree to those terms? I have a sneaky suspicion he didn’t. He said he wanted to see the bean first, they showed him, Milah asked if they had a deal and Rumple went on a tangent about Milah leaving Bae. So I guess in Rumple’s mind there probably wasn’t technically a deal to break. It’s all a bit eye-for-eye with Rumple and Hook, trying to one-up each other. Hook went too far with using his knowledge of the dagger to his advantage. Yes it worked the first time in regards to the finding who the magic belonged too. That is one deal, Hook’s silence for Rumple’s help. Using the threat of calling out Rumple to Belle wasn’t going to work again, and Hook should have known that. When he asked for his hand I thought he had something different to offer, but no he was silly enough to use the same information. I love Hook but he wasn’t very bright, but in words of Buffy ‘Love makes you do the wacky.’ However he didn’t have anything else to bargain with and I would guess in Hook’s mind Rumple was never going to hand over the hand if he just asked for it.

I think Rumple double bluffed Killian, he told him the hand was cursed, as he knew Killian wouldnt believe him, rightly thinking he was just trying to mess with his head, then when Killian started doing OOC things with it, it sowed the seeds of doubt- was it the hand or was it him, after punching Will, he decided ‘crud it is cursed’ & went back to Rumple to backed him into a corner with the next part of the bluff- telling him the hand really isnt cursed- it’s just who he really is at heart, to make an already worried & vulnerable Killian wracked with self doubt & therefore easy pickings to back into a corner- because once you no longer believe in yourself & who you are, it isnt hard for others to take advantage of you (cue Anna Parallel).

This is my thought as well. I am starting to feel sorry for Belle (which is a miracle for me). She’s still continuing to see the good in him, but that deception is just so evil. Regardless of the fact that Hook ‘blackmailed’ Rumple first. All Hook was going to do was tell Belle about the dagger. That’s it. It was Rumple’s own doing that gave Hook that ammunition. By contrast Rumple has made a man trying to better himself fall back onto doubts and self-loathing; made him into his lackey; framed him with the video tape, all because Hook wanted two hands so he could hold Emma. That is truly evil (and I love Rumple for it!), but of course all I see is ‘but Hook was blackmailing Rumple, Hook deserved what he got’. I’m not sure he deserved that. His little sad face at the end was just heartbreaking. On top of that not only does Hook ‘owe’ Rumple, he also owes Will for not dobbing him into Emma. I was hoping that Will and Hook could have a bro-ship, I think they’d work well together. They even have the same catchphrase 😉

If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness

[Author]

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