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You know MysteryKat you just struck something in me with your thoughts on the promos! And that is: that Neal is hanging out with Rumple in the promo for 3×04. What’s up with that? He was all “I need to get back to Emma” “I need to tell her I love her” “I need my second chance”. And now it honestly looks like he ISN’T dying to get back to her.
Why is that I wonder?
The coward thing. He’s being a coward again. That’s the only conclusion I can make. Rumple hasn’t chained Neal to his side – Neal is actively NOT looking for Emma. And from the looks of things, he won’t attempt to find Emma until after 3×05.
That triangle analysis isn’t mine haha, but i’m glad you all appreciated it, because I most certainly did. The similarities are too close to ignore for me. But even if this theory wasn’t out there I wouldn’t believe that a triangle is going to happen anyway because it is completely out of character for Emma to flit between them. She is a strong woman, she will make her decision when she isn’t under the emotional duress of attempting to #SaveHenry (lol ABC have totally got that in my head). And she will stick to her decision. Neal is the obstacle to Captain Swan, it has been said a million times but I feel the need to reiterate it as we get closer to the episode when Neal will return (inevitable some people will be nervous haha).
Neal was introduced as an obstacle to Captain Swan. Neal has consistently continued to be an obstacle to Captain Swan. Every time Neal is mentioned by the writers it is in relation to Captain Swan. Now, if you think about it, who is the obstacle to Swanfire? Not Hook. It’s Neal himself. And that’s not going to change. As I said above, Neal is retaining his old behaviour in running away from his problems, despite it being “the greatest regret of his life”. That’s not True Love.
This season has been so great for us, and will continue to be great. We have been told we’re getting a “first kiss” indicating that more will follow. And as I believe Neal will find the JR5 in 3×06, well that says it all really. Emma will be kissing Killian after Neal comes back into the picture. Neal will be a minor(major!) hiccup to CS from 3×06 until Emma makes her decision, but always remember that he is the obstacle that must be overcome in order for Captain Swan to happen.
Now, pictures!!!
Honestly I can’t decide which is my favourite. *stares mesmerised for 2 whole minutes*
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
I’ll agree on the point about Neal being an obstacle for himself and his own happiness. Not everything has happened TO him but he has made some choices which led him that way as well.
I’m not entirely convinced about the rest until we see it within the episode. He IS trying to get to Emma but he met up with Rumple along the way, had to have a moment to react to that and talk with him, and told him there was a way to save Henry (which is where Emma would be headed) that didn’t involve Rumple having to die. Just because he hasn’t waved and said “cya later, gotta find Emma”, doesn’t mean that he’s not trying to get to her. His priority SHOULD be to find Henry and logically, since he assumes that’s why Emma is in NL which is right, he should be moving toward accomplishing that. We don’t yet know what the spearing of the creepy water creature has to do with anything, but presumably it is to HELP get to where HENRY is which is of the utmost importance. It’s actually refreshing to see him working toward keeping his father alive while actively trying to save Henry. Plus, he has to know that’s where Emma will end up too. HENRY is the priority here and it looks like he knows that.
I completely agree that he has been presented in such a way as an obstacle not only to himself but to CaptainSwan as well. It’s how he was introduced as a romantic interest to Emma, specifically IN an episode showing her present day relationship to Hook. That is extremely significant. We haven’t seen them have a love story episode on their own, only comparing them to Emma/Hook (showing the DIFFERENCES) or Milah/Rumple (showing the SIMILARITIES), whereas we have watched CaptainSwan both play out in real time as well as being directed compared to Snowing and showing the similarities there too.
I’m not worried about Neal spending time with Rumple right now, as long as he doesn’t slide down the slippery slope and end up embracing dark magic. Right now it’s not likely to happen but we don’t know what else these two will go through while trying to get to where Henry and the others are. We’ve only seen them meet up and that Neal doesn’t want to kill the lost boys unnecessarily but is willing to do what it takes, just like everyone else in the group. We just don’t know anything else yet.
So I think he is still trying to get to her but hopefully doing it the right way in focusing on getting to Henry. Sure way to NOT get her back is to ignore the kid and there’s no way he’s gonna do that right now. I really want to root for him becoming not only a good son but a good father. He’s already told Emma he’s not gonna do to Henry what his dad did to him and I believe he was sincere about that.
He knows he’s screwed up and he’s definitely made some cowardly choices and he’s being very realistic that even when he gets to Emma and Henry, even if he helps save them, he may not get her back. But I don’t think that RIGHT NOW he is being a coward. He’s finally stepping up and doing something and trying to get to them.
We’ll see how his behavior holds in the future and what he does to get there. This season has been all about doing things the right way and I’m still leery about little Roland because that was the easy but highly dangerous plan, especially since he did have other ways he listed of travelling there if he could just find them. He has GOOD reason to want to get to NL ASAP and nobody is questioning that at all. But Rumple had good intention of protecting the children from the Ogre Wars and look what he turned into. Just because we want Neal to be a bit more like the Bae we used to love doesn’t mean that actions and choices don’t have consequences so I’m still a little worried about that.
Neal is definitely an obstacle here. He’s brought up every time in relation to Emma & Hook but it also gives them a common bond. It won’t be easy. There’s still a lot of things that Emma doesn’t know about both guys and she could be thrown for a loop and back again with every new piece of information. They won’t make it easy. She’ll feel pulled in two different directions but the main obstacle isn’t Neal, it’s Emma. It’s trusting herself. This directly stems BACK to Neal among others, but it’s going to be doing the safe/easy thing that people expect her to do, or following her heart.
I’m really hoping that we see some great father/daughter scenes with this because if anybody would understand, it’s Charming. He was engaged to Abigail but KNEW it wasn’t right, that he DIDN’T love her and he needed to be with Snow. Even cursed David got that much right, he knew he wasn’t the man who chose Kathryn and that he loved MM. He still tried to play by society’s rules and do the “right thing” but even then he couldn’t stay away from MM and ended up alone.
Ideally, Emma will see some of herself in her father, have embraced who she is and be the strong independent woman she is and not revert to a place where she feels like a kid with no control. I LOVED her speech to Ashley about not listening to what people want you to do and stand up for who you really are and say “No, this is who I am.” I need Emma to be that person. No matter her choice she needs to back it up.
We’ll know for sure based on how she’s treating people. Even when David chose Kathryn and MM walked off in tears saying he chose her, David still had the longing looks and was drawn to her and eventually sneaking around with her. Keep in mind, this was CURSED Snowing. Emma won’t take it that far (to the sneaking around part) but that doesn’t mean that she’ll automatically be 100% happy.
If she does give Neal a try (and she may even call it that and tell Hook she needs to figure stuff out with him and give it a chance for Henry’s sake which I could see her feeling like, regardless of what advice her parents or anyone else may give her), we may still see longing looks between her and Hook, even if she doesn’t act on them.
Every time Hook’s been injured, even when she should be paying attention to something else, she always looks over at him. And as we know, Hook can’t keep his eyes off her. Whether she tries with Neal or just backs off with both of them until she can figure everything out, I really don’t expect those longing looks to go away, or their closeness or their kindred spiritness. If Regina’s already picking up on it, and that’s BEFORE what comes in a couple of episodes, you KNOW somebody will later on (I vote Charming so they can have a heart-to-heart).
I’m hoping she’s learned enough and has been hurt enough to where she’ll figure it out as quickly as she can process it in and around everything else (which may be awhile) but that she won’t give either of them false hope. Neal is being realistic about the possibility of not getting her back (I struggle with whether it’s being realistic or having a defeatist attitude like he must have when he didn’t bother to try the first time – his words – but I’d like to think he’s learned something so I’ll take realistic for now) and Hook will be very understanding because he knows Emma and he cared for Bae too. It doesn’t mean he won’t fight, it means that he’ll know better than to push her and he’ll understand what she’s going through and be mindful of that, whether he likes it or not. He’s not going to leave town or take off because he thinks he’s lost just because the other guy is alive. He’s in this. For her. He spent 300 years trying to avenge Milah’s death, I don’t think a guy like that could just take off and spend the rest of his life wondering if she was alright. In fact he’d be the guy that’s off to the side, taking care of her, being there for her in any way possible if it meant knowing for sure that she was happy and safe.
Thankfully I don’t think he’ll have to be that guy for long. I think once Emma knows all the facts, comes to some terms with them, and reconciles who SHE is deep down and what she wants, she won’t leave them dangling. I really think her main obstacle is going to be trusting her instincts and letting herself have what she wants. For once, she’s being put first no matter what and she’s going to be the one causing the massive pain and she’s not going to want to do that. She may put it off for awhile, like she did with the orphan thing because she knew it would hurt Snow, but since this season seems to be all about coming to grips with who you are, once she realizes it, she’ll let the other guy down gently.
It’s be a really big emotional scene when she does because she won’t want to hurt him, especially with the history there. These guys, like her, have been through enough already, but Neal is already on his way to accepting that reality and I think he will find closure in getting to talk it through, much like Emma found closure with the portal (only this will give her even more closure being able to get more questions answered because I’m inclined to think that Neal will open up more about everything because he won’t have much choice not to.
I’m thinking they may have saved any of the Tamara discussion for when Neal is back with the rest of the group. It’s something that Neal has to hash out to and with Emma. It would have been nice to hear it acknowledged before now, but I think it also would have been a waste if he had that conversation with Mulan instead.
Emma and Neal already proved they can be friends and co-parents and Neal is on his way to accepting his fate with her. That doesn’t mean they don’t need to hash things out though because they do: big time. Emma deserves answers, and as a huge Emma fan, I need to see her get those, whether she forgives and sweeps it under the rug or not. (I do think she’ll forgive and they’ll come to terms on it, but I think they have both moved on and just haven’t accepted that yet).
Neal knew she was out there in the world. He had JUST been reminded of the fact that soon he would be able to go after her and tell her why he let it all happen. To beg for forgiveness, and he chose not to. Not only that, he chose to build a life with someone else, someone that he loved. Likewise Emma, after years of not trusting herself because of her relationship with Neal, was able to let herself start to genuinely care about Graham and then he was ripped away from her which threw her walls back up when they were finally starting to come down. He would have made a lot more progress on them had Regina not killed him when she did. Emma didn’t know she would ever see Neal again when she spent time with Hook on the beanstalk and wanted to trust him, but she did he existed somewhere in the world. She spent TWO YEARS looking for him and then gave up and moved on with her life, eventually caring about Graham and now Hook (which started BEFORE Neal “died.”
Seeing the others who have lost their true loves, or thought they would have to learn to exist in a world where the other was alive but not theirs, they spiraled. They COULD NOT HANDLE IT. It’s bad enough to know they’re dead (look at Regina) but to know they exist in the world and aren’t with you? Is unthinkable. Yet BOTH Emma and Neal have had instances where we’ve been shown that they COULD and DID move on, knowing the other one was out there somewhere. That’s been set up for a reason, especially when these are writers that focus on TL and have made a point of showing us what it can make you do when you lose it and then show us that these guys? Aren’t reacting that way.
So far, Neal has been a lot of talk. We know he wants to get back to them and that he hopes to be reconciled with them but he’s always SAID things. He said he regretted leaving her every day, yet moved on without her. Milah said she regretted leaving him every day (according to Hook) but never went back for him. In this instance, he is very much like his mother.
Emma back in Season 1 told MM about David: “It’s one thing to say he wants to but it’s another thing to actually make the choice.” She wasn’t supportive of the idea of MM & David when David was just saying he wanted to be with MM, but when she found out he was actually leaving Kathryn, Emma was all for it.
BOTH Emma and Snow are actions speak louder than words type of girls. Hearing it isn’t enough. Think of Snow in Heart of Darkness when she didn’t know Charming and he was telling her about the potion she took to forget him but that he was her true love and they were meant to be. “Words, words, words. That’s all that love is. And unfortunately for you, love means nothing to me. You know what does mean something to me? Taking action.” Charming kisses her anyway, trying to convince her but she pushes him back because she doesn’t know or love him (she is technically “cursed Snow” at that moment but not cursed as in MM, since she doesn’t have her memories). It’s not until Charming saves her from an arrow which he takes himself instead that she realizes that he must REALLY love her and he’s not just saying it. He’s SHOWING it.
In a medium like television, you SHOW, you don’t just TELL. You can talk about things til you’re blue in the face but until you show it, it’s not 100% and won’t be taken as such. They have shown us what we needed to see in parallels and callbacks to other moments. They’ve shown us how Emma is at times like Snow, and at times like Charming. We’ve seen Hook/Emma be paralled to Snowing, we’ve seen Emma/Neal be paralleled to Rumple/Milah and we were introduced to Neal TO EXPLAIN why Emma reacts that way to Hook.
I have faith that this was all done for a reason because the way they’ve set it up heavily implies that this is all foreshadowing the outcome. Otherwise what’s the point of bothering with the parallels? They show us flashbacks that relate to and further explain the mindset, or what is going on in present day. They’re letting us know that Emma is afraid to trust Hook, not because he’s a pirate, but because she can’t be sure of her OWN instincts since the last time she let somebody get to her in a similar situation, she was the one left locked up and she can’t risk the chance because she has to get back to Henry. We see REAL EMOTION on her face about having to leave him behind and how much it is killing her because she DOES believe him but she doesn’t believe HERSELF.
We saw them first meet. We saw how they first connected to each other. There were tons of parallels with the tying up and the forced adventure and the compass and the talk of true love so early on but we also got to see the big moments for Emma and Hook and how their love story will unravel. All we’ve seen of Emma/Neal is a highlight reel of the PAST and how it affecting HER future. It is something to be gotten OVER and LEARNED FROM. It is the definition of an obstacle.
We had none of that from Neal. Soon we are getting an episode revolving around Hook and in present day for THAT episode, EMMA kisses him – and quite passionate swan indeed!. What we don’t yet have is an episode that shows Emma and Neal with their past and their present. We will probably see one at some point but again, the PAST is shown in order to further explain the conflicts of the PRESENT and it will all depend on what they are going through now and what is relevant but it will be VERY interesting to see HOW that unfolds. I expect it to be more an Emma backstory ep like Tallahassee was where it overlaps with Neal because he is the one person that has history with her. But what they choose to show, again, will be very significant.
The fact that we are seeing Hook and Emma’s FIRST kiss and that it was marketed as such makes me think it won’t be the last and it’s just a matter of time.. I call the marketing dept inept all the time but I can’t believe they are that entirely idiotic to hype it up like it’s something we should believe in only to rip it away because “Neal is alive.” That’s called drama, and rich story-telling with layers that will allow Emma to learn more about herself, fill in some gaps from the past, and get closure. If they really wanted to hype the triangle, I would THINK they would be playing up how heavily Neal is fighting to get back to her right now. Trying to make him out to be heroic and brave and doing things the right way this time too and then watching it play out and see if Emma thought it was too little too late. I haven’t seen that yet.
Once he is close to reuniting with the group (unless they totally surprise us and throw a curveball and he’s already back or coming back at the end of 3×05 or something) what the promotional material will be like at that point. I still don’t trust promos are far as I can throw them and people have been asking questions in interviews about what will happen at that point all the time which hasn’t stopped, but I am still curious as to what way they approach it since a lot of their marketing this year has featured Hook and Emma heavily.
This went on WAY longer than I had planned (as per usual). It’s therapeutic to get it out though but if anybody actually enjoys these I salute you. I’m always shocked.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Hi CSers. Sorry to be a bother, but this won’t take but a second of your time. I’ve been really lenient the past few days about spoilers being in this thread without tags. Some posts are better than others but I really wanted to give you guys a chance to celebrate and be joyful without me coming in and spoiling out half your post and pictures. But, it’s been a few days and several pages. I kinda need you guys to work with me on this one. You all write these LONG LONG LONG LONG posts (seriously, I grab water when I see that Kat has posted). And while it doesn’t take me an extraordinary amount of time go through and black out everything that needs to be blacked out, we do have a pretty strict policy and I have *other* things to do. So I’m gonna ask that you please be mindful of that from this point forward.
My thanks.
EDIT
Forgot to mention: there are a few things that I think we’re still having trouble with when it comes to codes. Tweets for example are really impossible to spoil out at this point so you don’t gotta worry about those. I–personally–also don’t care about title unless I’m already spoiling out your post and then I’ll go ahead and spoil out titles. Pictures (for the most part!) do need to be spoiled out if you please (no, you don’t need to spoil out the CS kiss because let’s face it–it’s ALL OVER THE INTERNET) lol.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"EDIT: Understood, @RumplesGirl. You have been nothing but lenient with us, and we appreciate it. I will definitely insert spoiler tags when necessary 🙂
Hi CS fans!! I have been reading you for a short time since 3×01 aired. It hasn’t been easy for me since you guys sure write a lot and I’m not an english native, also I don’t have a lot of time, but I have found myself adicted to your thread. I do love all your analyses and parallels with Snowing! And, the most amazing thing is that almost everything you said actually came true!
First of all, WELCOME!!!!! *throws confetti and coconut shavings in air* As other forum members have said, your English truly is impeccable and better than most native speakers lol. Believe me.
Isn’t it amazing how many Snowing parallels there are? I know Adam appreciated a fan’s comment on parallels on twitter. So, it definitely intentional, which is yet reason #44583923 why CS has been canon since day one.
Funny thing is that I didn’t started to look at OUAT until episode 2×12 aired in my country. I was chanel surfing when I saw the scene from the hospital with a certain pirate and his blond lady… At first I thought that they were a couple and that she was mad at him for cheating on her with Cora… YEP I had no idea what it all was about…LOL Then as the conversation advanced I felt really curios about them… And the concerning on her voice when she said “I pick you” in that moment I clearly saw Emma was worried for him. So I started to look for more of their interactions (thanks Youtube for that!) and I felt in love with their dynamic.
Many naysayers think CSers are overanalytical and read too much into scenes between Swan and our favorite priate. *coughcoughSwanfirefanscoughcough*. If a former non-CSer sees the chemistry, then we are not as crazy as people think we are. Besides, they’re canon now, so I stick my tongue out at skeptics because I damn well can now! hehe
After that I saw all season 2 episodes and waited for season 3 to air. And I wasn’t disappointed! Man they sure have chemistry and I think they deeply care for each other. As much as I hate love triangles (there is always someone that gets hurt, and in the worse scenario one of the characters in the triangle acts selfish and doesn’t thing on the two others feelings…) I like how they are developing this one. As far as we have seen, they are not acting out of character.
Another fantastic point. They are never out of character, and if anything, they are more IN character when they are around each other and their care really does run deep (and as I’d like to say, as deep as Hook’s blue eyes). I know this has been mentioned before, and I have mentioned it before as well, but the slow burn of a budding love is what makes it true love. Snowing gradually built up to a love, and CS will build up to it as well. And, it will be grand. *sighs*
… OH MY GOOD!! Are they actually kissing??? I don’t see Emma kissing him in front of the others it will mean to expose her feeling, and just after what Regina said, but on the other hand if it’s a moment of adreline… who knows? I will personally prefer them to kiss without anyone seeing it, I mean Emma will sure be afraid and freak out, imagine how she will feel with all the others knowing it… but how awesome will it be for them to kiss and then stay like that a second just overtaken for the feelings?? Is it to much to expect? Maybe it is because that will made preatty clear that it was much more than a kiss and I have the feeling that after it Emma will be all : “It was just a moment of passion or I just got carried away…”
Yep, indeed they are kissing, and kissing with love, intensity, passion, raw emotion, and even desperation. I think those ingredients make for a mind-blowing kiss! I would prefer them to kiss in private as well, and I am thinking it is most likely because most of their intense moments have been in private. That’s what makes it special and canon, I think. It’s not for show, but in the moments when no one is looking, we see their true selves.
Again, welcome!!!! I love your thoughts, and you are fitting right in with the rest of these awesome shipmates. *munches on cookies* Thanks for the cookie!
I hope he realizes not all Oncers are ungrateful spoiled fans. There is a lot of nasty out there.
Obisgirl, I totally agree. I could probably write pages on how poorly some fans represent themselves (all shippers) and I feel embarrassed for them. It’s a generous gesture that Adam is responding to kindly to all of his fans, even the nasty ones. I can’t imagine how exhausted he must feel from that. All I will say is that HoroKitsis (yes, I ship it hehe) have creative freedom and rights, ’cause I don’t know…they’re the CREATORS of the show? If you don’t like what they’re dishing, then don’t watch. Why complain about it?
@Captain Eala I love all the parallels you draw from Barrie’s PP. It makes perfect sense to me and I appreciate your input on it! We need more confirmations from people like you who know the source well! Also, I’m on tumblr as well (dork84). I’d love to follow you, so let me know what your url is 🙂
I had completely forgotten that Hook and Neal were referred to as two sides of the same coin! They’re similar *enough* for that to be true, but Hook is definitely the more adult option in the sense of an all-consuming and respectful love that acknowledges it’s time for move forward rather than try to stay young forever, especially in this version. When H&K talked about making PP the villain instead of what we’re used to they said: “To want to be [14] for the rest of your life is dark.” and “What happens to somebody who wants to cling to youth at any cost? For us that is a villain.” Side note just to clarify: Neal isn’t clinging to youth in wanting to be 14 forever at all (he was 14 for long enough!) but in a sense he is clinging to youth in clinging to that young love they once shared and I fully expect them both to realize at some point that it’s not what it was. That was the idea of it, the memory.
You are right on the money, MysteryKat. I think this is such an apt comparison of Hook and Neal. I feel Neal is still emotionally stinted and Hook is more of the adult in that respect. Neal still has a side of selfishness in him, whether it is intentional or not. He can be a bit impulsive and the latest example of that is when he nearly sacrifices Roland’s safety to get to Emma and Henry in NL. That scene bothered me on so many levels.
If we talk about the other side of the coin, I do not think Hook would go that route at all. He is very much calculating, as we all know, and would weigh all the options before deciding on the right one.
Emma will undoubtably be drawn to the idea of it, like Wendy, only to discover that what suits HER better is being offered in the here and now, by someone who understands and appreciates her and can offer her that more adult relationship that isn’t living in the past but in the present and the future, and it is an all-consuming passionate love, not a teenage dream of what love is or can be. It’s not just saying ILY, it’s showing it (among many other things). I love that you brought in the pretend mother vs mother thing! It fits so well. Hook is absolutely showing her that a different kind of love is possible and that when he loves, he loves deeply and loyally. It’s taken him so long to give up everything including the desire to avenge (which he almost gave up once before early on too – it takes something major to fill the void that is left in that situation which is why Emma = major for him). He’s showing her respect and admiration and compliments her. All good things. I know many are offended by his innuendos (I always found him amusing and eyeroll worthy at times like Emma and Snow) but it has always been clear to me that it’s a facade. We get real human moments with him and even though many always seem to doubt whatever he says, I can’t wait for it to be proven.
Yes, this is where I see CS as canon. Hook appreciates Emma for who she is, her strengths and flaws alike. He is patient with her and knows when to cater to her emotions and how. Without going on a Neal rant, I will say (which we all agree on, since it’s been discussed) that he belittles Emma’s abilities and even laughed at her when she mentioned briefly of her struggles. (Forget the exact eppy, I think it was the one right after Manhattan when they are trying to agree on both being part of Henry’s lives despite the crap they went through with each other).
Neal was introduced as an obstacle to Captain Swan. Neal has consistently continued to be an obstacle to Captain Swan. Every time Neal is mentioned by the writers it is in relation to Captain Swan. Now, if you think about it, who is the obstacle to Swanfire? Not Hook. It’s Neal himself. And that’s not going to change. As I said above, Neal is retaining his old behaviour in running away from his problems, despite it being “the greatest regret of his life”. That’s not True Love.
YES! He is his own worst enemy. Neal is setting obstacles for himself because his inner “coward” is still there. If there is any character development to be had, the first thing to go should be his cowardly ways. He is not a bad person, but he needs to acknowledge how he royally screwed up even if he thought what he was doing was right.
Oh, and before I forget, if my memory serves me right, @sweetgrass is new to the forums? If you are, then welcome!! If not, it’s great to see ya! I haven’t been fully active on the boards for a while, so I apologize. This post has been a long thing coming. I have some downtime, so I thought I’d acknowledge all the goodness you all have contributed to this amazing thread.
AND CAN WE JUST TAKE A MOMENT TO APPRECIATE COLIN’S JAWLINE?????
I’ll just leave this here….
Over and out 😉
-Jasmine
Keeper of: Hook's eyebrow action, Emma's eye-rolls, David's sarcasm, Snow's "She's kind of out of town" to Tiny, and Rumple's "Not telling."
RG:
*leaves cookies for RG* (Seriously you are a saint and thanks for all you do, even if it means having to read some of our stuff even though I know you don’t agree. Seriously – saint!!! And I know I’m super long-winded. You poor thing for putting up with my long metas! I try to be good though about the spoiler stuff though…emphasis on try.)
I have…no idea how to black out a lot of this. General spoiler tags don’t seem to do much when using a quote to respond to somebody (and likewise, twitter coding gets screwed up too and all we end up with is gibberish). I only JUST learned yesterday how to post the twitter quotes to begin with!
Pictures I haven’t tried messing with at all yet, I usually just link to whatever but yes, THAT picture will be hard to erase from the internet much less discussion all over this forum, especially in our own little corner where we can be whatever we want to be and now I’m quoting Cinderella so time to end that thought or I’ll have to be afraid I’ve finally cracked (not entirely out of the realm of possibility).
ON TO CS:
YES! It is IMPOSSIBLE not to appreciate that beautiful jawline! CAN NOT WAIT! (We love Hook for many many reasons but it would be pointless to refute that he is in fact, very good looking!)
It is impossible to completely ignore half of the triangle when it DOES have some baring on our half. It sucks cause I’d much prefer to have tunnel vision but it would be pointless to act like he didn’t directly affect who Emma is now, or the fact that he will likely, eventually join back up with the group might affect things for a bit.
That said, I do not have time to keep talking in circles trying to remind myself why this is going to be good for us so I am going to try to focus on the wonderful points going for CS instead:
- They’ve been hyping it all season (and even before – lots of Hook and Emma pictures)
- SHOW, not TELL (they keep showing us Hook is doing the right things; he backs up what he says and is “TRULY HELPFUL” according to JMO (yay! We knew he had it in him!)
- In that same vein, we are seeing Hook and Emma play out including their first kiss which we didn’t see for Hook/Milah OR Emma/Neal
- This is very important because Hook has loved Milah and been trying to avenge her death for 300 years so this is HUGE and MEANINGFUL to him
- Emma is finally trusting HERSELF and embracing who she really is, even if that’s sometimes painful to those around her
- Precedence has already been set this season that thinking it’s the last time you’ll get a chance to say something (aka: what you do for closure before they or are all of you are gone) doesn’t always jive with what you’d want to say if you had more time
- We’re seeing Emma move FORWARD and move ON now that she has had some of those questions answered and has a little bit of closure and knows she can trust her instincts because they were right
- Seeing Emma move on (again) is HUGE. They keep drilling into us that it is almost impossible to move on when you think the other person is out there but it is equally tough when the person you love is dead – yet days later we are seeing a real and genuine connection forming between Hook and Emma. For her, she’s lost Neal twice: once over a decade ago, and again very recently, but she is not spiraling like everyone else who has lost love is. Similarly, we’ve been SHOWN & TOLD that Neal had moved on, even though he still deep down loved Emma, and she has been shown that as well
- Emma is the product of true love and naturally drawn to it – just like the camera is naturally drawn to showing us Hook, Emma, or both when true love is mentioned
- Hook’s happy ending – cue Emma shot; Emma being the product of true love – go to Hook
- “We want the same thing”
- “We understand each other”
- “What we need is right in front of us” – Hook walks right in front of Emma
- This has been established FROM THE BEGINNING
- Neal’s first onscreen appearance as a romantic option for Emma showed him in the PAST and only showed us enough of their story to explain why she was reacting the way she was to HOOK
- Milah & Hook’s relationship was shown in the past too, and only to show us what makes him the man he is today as well
- For all Hook’s flirting, we’ve never seen him kiss ANYONE but we will and it will be Emma!
I actually saw an interesting point earlier that made me think maybe we’ve been going about this all the wrong way. We’re assuming the worst: a full-blown love triangle which is what the MEDIA hypes and we’re reminded that Neal is “dead” and all that jazz, but what if there really isn’t much of one? The WRITERS haven’t been hyping it. They say what they always say, have hope and keep watching. Wait for it to play out. #nospoilers.
The way it’s been marketed so far this year (to me) is that Emma and Hook have a real chance (and to me, are the real thing). That doesn’t mean it will be easy (and with this show of course it won’t! The battle only begins when you find the person you’re supposed to be with! The rest is in finding a way to stay together!
As has been pointed out, Neal was brought in as an obstacle and in order to move forward with ANYONE 100% Emma has major PERSONAL issues that she needs to deal with. This is coming in a season where she is having to embrace who she is deep down in order to get her son back. This is a GOOD THING. Emma and Neal having big scenes is a GOOD THING. They need to talk. Emma needs her answers.
She may be pulled between them a bit and that’s understandable. Her past that she thought she was finally done with and finally moving on from will be staring her in the face and finally saying everything she ever wanted to hear!
But that doesn’t mean that she’ll forget Hook or what she’s seen in him or how perfectly he fits with her and understands her and what a great team they are. It might take a little while for her to be able to process it because THE MISSION AT HAND IS TO SAVE HENRY so even if she’s 100% sure never wants to give Neal a second chance, I don’t see her standing in the middle of the jungle screaming at him about having made a choice and that’s it. It’s far from over *sniff*
The interesting thing I saw was about how Neal would ultimately take it. He may very well pick up on the Emma/Hook dynamic even if she’s trying to stay neutral and can’t currently process her lovelife during to #OperationHenry.
Neal is already very aware of his mistakes. He knows that there is a very REAL chance that Emma won’t take him back and that’s without adding Hook into the picture at all. We don’t know the full extent of their relationship but it did not end on good terms and Neal could very well be extremely angry with him (and I’m sure he will be) but ultimately he will be more angry with HIMSELF because he knows that his actions ALONE could stop Emma from being with him again, not just because Hook has stepped into the picture without him knowing about it (and the Emma/Hook thing started before either had him back in their lives – it was set up that way all along, Neal just hasn’t been aware of it and it really starts now which he still isn’t aware of).
So I could see a couple of things happening:
1) Neal flips out like Rumple (only not in such an extreme manner) and blames Hook for everything and brings up a lot of dirty laundry (which Emma needs to know and process but again, that’s an obstacle so makes perfect sense) and not take into account anything he’s done himself
OR, more likely:
2) Neal accepts some of the blame for it and finds a way to deal with it. He did care about both of them at one point and I really think that regardless of the Emma situation, Hook will reach out to him and try to mend things. After all, Bae was the reason he gave up revenge the first time and I think it’s something that HOOK has regretted every day since. It would parallel nicely because Neal would be coming to tell Emma what he regretted and show remorse, and Hook would be doing the same with Neal.
Neal may or may not accept it. He may tolerate Hook but they might never be the best of friends again. We just don’t know.
I think seeing Emma happy would lessen it a bit once he lets it go. He told August “If I knew she was ok then I could move on” so I’d like to think the man who was hurting so much back then over what he did would still feel that way. I think they are ALL learning from the past and Neal doesn’t want to make Rumple’s mistakes. They don’t have to be best friends but they did all mean something to each other once and I think they’ll all feel and accept that there’s a LOT of remorse going around, for all of them.
We have already seen what a great team of co-parents Emma and Neal can be (those were my favorite scenes of them ever) and we know that when Bae was younger, before he learned why Hook took care of him, that Hook was actually really good with Bae. He’s bound to have some fond memories of that too, especially since he drew the P S compass thing on his cave wall like Hook taught him on the ship. The other things drawn were sentimental as well, like the Darling Family sketches.
There’s more than enough pain to go around and we’ve all been dreading this huge blowout from the triangle and especially thinking of Bae as the little kid who couldn’t let it go that he thought Hook was just like Rumple, but where else have we seen/heard that? Henry flipped out on Emma and said she was just like Regina but he came back too. Now, from what Peter has said, Henry may have some well-deserved issues with Emma (and likewise Neal but he won’t blame Neal because he didn’t know – probably won’t blame him for leaving Emma in jail either because he believes in her destiny and knows it wouldn’t have happened otherwise), but I feel that Henry will come around eventually.
If Neal is supportive and backs Emma up and explains to Henry that she has to do what’s right by her and he doesn’t know the whole story and she had a good reason for him not knowing (aka: she couldn’t find him) and that she’s happy with Hook, Henry will eventually come around. The kid was totally fine with Tamara until Emma made a good point about her being evil. He won’t LOVE it but I think ultimately they can convince him he should be happy to have his whole dysfunctional family around. After all they keep saving Regina and she’s tried to kill them multiple times! (But is reforming and eventually Henry will learn to love RH and Roland as well!)
I really think it will take awhile, Henry may want to go stay with Neal or Regina for a bit which will devastate Emma of course. And when Regina starts dating it’ll be interesting to see Henry’s reaction, but I think Neal finding love will be the key to Henry full accepting that this is the way life is now and he’s got a huge family of people that love him. That’s a “real world” fairy tale and is realistic for someone from our world, or someone who grew up here like Emma. Plus Henry’s always had a crazy family and tried to balance Regina and Emma, why not add Neal too?
I think it’s been impossible for ANYBODY on other side to imagine their favorite guy getting hurt but most especially because we can’t think of a backup that’s “good enough” or right for them (especially since there’s a good argument to made against any single women on the show right now that aren’t Emma – none of them are “right”) BUT, we did not see this happen either:
- Belle – nowhere to be seen when Rumple was with Milah or Cora
- Robin Hood – not in the picture when Regina was with Daniel
In going with the parallel between Rumple/Milah and Neal/Emma courtesy of Manhattan, yes it was tragic that Rumple got hurt so badly, and all for trying to do the right thing, but he is SO MUCH BETTER with Belle. She gets him. She sees his goodness and fights for it and supports it and doesn’t put up with the garbage, but we did NOT see her sitting on the sidelines waiting for him to notice her while he got his feelings out of the way for someone else.
Robin Hood had his own life and tragedy going on separate from Regina but once she allows herself to move on from Daniel fully and embrace it, they’re free to start something else.
Emma and Hook both brought baggage in from their previous relationships. Emma with both Neal and Graham, and Hook with Milah. One of the first things they ever discussed was that baggage. The looks in their eyes. Figuring out what makes each other tick. But Hook didn’t watch her with Neal or Graham, and she never saw him with Milah. They weren’t waiting in the wings.
I’m really starting to think this triangle won’t be so blown out of proportion. It won’t be as easy as Neal seeing them together and then never saying anything about it (I seriously doubt it would be that easy!) but they are promoting CS a LOT which implies that this is the couple for S3. The one to watch out for. They keep putting them close together, side by side, working as a team and forming an intense bond. This is the couple people are talking about.
It would be COMPLETELY UNFAIR to whoever is sitting on the sidelines right now to watch either of these guys pine over Emma and then once she breaks their heart, turn around and fall for them.
It’s one of the main things that bugs me about the Tamara situation because if I were her, I’d feel like I was sitting on the sidelines, watching all of it, playing 2nd fiddle, and was only good enough once the other option wasn’t available. It doesn’t matter that Tamara was evil, all that matters is that Neal genuinely loved her and their relationship was right in front of Emma.
This gets kinda hazy within the triangle with both guys seeing her spend time with the other one, but ultimately whoever is left needs to meet and fall in love with someone else (I refuse to believe that the 3rd wheel doesn’t ultimately get his happy ending someday too, it’s just not the one he expected) and that means they need to be with someone NEW (like Regina and Robin Hood) and therefore WE HAVE NOT SEEN THEM YET and probably won’t see them for some time.
I know many are hopping on board with the CaptainFairy stuff and I think they probably flirted in the past a bit and Tink is always portrayed as a jealous fairy, but we know Hook’s flirtatious! Pretty sure that Colin has said before that Hook was been loyal to Milah’s memory until now and again, we haven’t seen him kiss ANYBODY, even Milah but he will be kissing Emma soon! Also – he knew Tink in the past and she wasn’t enough to get him to change his ways so if ANYTHING were to have happened between them, it wasn’t enough and it would lousy to fall back into that with Tink watching from the sidelines, KNOWING she wasn’t enough to turn him around the first time.
It would be our equivalent to the history for Rumple & Cora compared to RumBelle. We know RB is TL and therefore, Cora is meaningless and did nothing to change him for the better. Having Tink on the sidelines would be going back to Emma knowing she wasn’t enough to get him to come back and/or walk away from Tamara and choose at least trying for a chance with Emma like Charming did with Snow. (Seriously, if you’re not in love with the person you’re going to marry or you love someone else more? Don’t marry them. Charming walked away from his betrothal. Neal was forced out of his because she tried to kill him. That’s not a choice and it certainly doesn’t prove love.)
So lots of good things for us really. I have faith that CaptainSwan will be here to stay in the hopefully not too distant future, and that everyone will end up with who they are meant to be with, even if it seems tragic in the meantime, because TL is better than that, and that’s what they’ll have.
And with that I leave you with cookies and dash off to watch a football game.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
thanks for the welcome. i’ve been posting for about a month. i agree with your post.
Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.
Welcome all new CS shippers! The more the merrier! I hope we receive a few more after episode 3×5 . It’s great to have discussion with other people who love OUAT as well as those who root for CS.
Similar to what you were saying @MysteryKat, I am looking forward to hearing more about Hook this season. I think once people learn his backstory, they might understand CaptainSwan a bit more. I think a big struggle for some people really liking the CS relationship is that people had a hard time warming up to Hook. I think this Season they have toned down the innuendo jokes without erasing the humor of his character. He is now someone to take more seriously, especially as a love interest.
@CaptainEala – I enjoyed that summary you gave on the Peter Pan/Wendy/Hook triangle. That’s a very interesting parallel. I might need to ponder that for a little bit…
@CaptainEala & @jasminegirl84 – I’ve been toying with the idea of joining tumblr. I wasn’t sure if I’d use it but I’m finding myself following sites more and more. I might be joining the bandwagon!Find me on tumblr: http://allthatglittersonce.tumblr.com
AllThatGlitters – I completely agree and I bet the kiss! will definitely bring in more, as well as the Hook backstory in 3×05 – it’s about time!. It’ll do for him what Desperate Souls did for Rumple, and The Stable Boy did for Regina. I think some may *want* to believe him but are having a hard time looking past the innuendos. He’s far more serious this season and embracing his Killian side to help Emma and we’re seeing that more and more, but still don’t have the actual backstory which usually helps us warm up to characters we might otherwise question liking.
Tumblr can be fun… It’s a nice way to avoid the hate and just love what you love and there are some very talented people! I love seeing the pics and gifsets as well as reading the thoughts. If I go there I just hide out in the Captain Swan tag for the most part but it’s nice to not feel so alone!
Still love our group here too and hope we see more and more join us in the near future! It’s a very exciting time to be a CaptainSwan fan!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
AllThatGlitters – I completely agree and I bet the kiss! will definitely bring in more, as well as the Hook backstory in 3×05 – it’s about time!. It’ll do for him what Desperate Souls did for Rumple, and The Stable Boy did for Regina. I think some may *want* to believe him but are having a hard time looking past the innuendos. He’s far more serious this season and embracing his Killian side to help Emma and we’re seeing that more and more, but still don’t have the actual backstory which usually helps us warm up to characters we might otherwise question liking.
Yes, I think people know so little about Hook that they need context for him. I know most of us on the CS forum saw past Hook’s innuendos but I think a wider audience will now find it easier to embrace him.
Tumblr can be fun… It’s a nice way to avoid the hate and just love what you love and there are some very talented people! I love seeing the pics and gifsets as well as reading the thoughts. If I go there I just hide out in the Captain Swan tag for the most part but it’s nice to not feel so alone!
I just joined (allthatglittersonce) and am still learning the ropes. Of course, this place is my number one stop because I do like to view non-CS related topics as well. I like to see the discussions that arise here.
I am so looking forward to seeing tomorrow’s episode and 3×5 promo. Hang on for our wild ride the next couple weeks (hopefully months, hopefully years!!!)
Find me on tumblr: http://allthatglittersonce.tumblr.com
Good morning everyone, happy Once day! I’m in such a good mood right now, I logged on to tumblr and saw not one BUT TWO former SF shippers joining the ranks of CS 🙂 it’s a good day lol.
@RG – SO SORRY about the spoilers. I’m awful.
*********Spoilers in first quote!!!!!!! Do not read if you don’t want to be spoiled!***********
I’m not entirely convinced about the rest until we see it within the episode. He IS trying to get to Emma but he met up with Rumple along the way, had to have a moment to react to that and talk with him, and told him there was a way to save Henry (which is where Emma would be headed) that didn’t involve Rumple having to die. Just because he hasn’t waved and said “cya later, gotta find Emma”, doesn’t mean that he’s not trying to get to her. His priority SHOULD be to find Henry and logically, since he assumes that’s why Emma is in NL which is right, he should be moving toward accomplishing that. We don’t yet know what the spearing of the creepy water creature has to do with anything, but presumably it is to HELP get to where HENRY is which is of the utmost importance. It’s actually refreshing to see him working toward keeping his father alive while actively trying to save Henry. Plus, he has to know that’s where Emma will end up too. HENRY is the priority here and it looks like he knows that.
@MysteryKat – Oh yes I agree with you that his priority should be Henry and it’s great that he’s hanging out with Papastilskin. Obviously haven’t seen the episode yet and don’t know all the circumstances, but i’m going to respectfully disagree with you for now that Neal is trying to find Emma while still hanging with Rumple. We KNOW it’s Rumple’s intention to stay separate from the group. And yes, he is presumably trying to do something with Rumple to help find Henry – but the difference is he’s helping Rumple, not Emma, which is what we’re seeing Killian do all the time. Neal should be focussing on finding Henry obviously rather than romance (even though he’s been very focussed on getting a second chance with Emma) but he should be doing it alongside Emma, like Killian is. But to me he is obviously taking some time to ready himself for that meeting, because despite the fact that he said leaving Emma and not telling her he loved her was the greatest regret of his life, IT’S STILL NOT ENOUGH to overcome his fear at the moment. Even though the circumstances are dire and Emma believes he is dead. To me, again, that’s “actions speaking louder than words” and Neal’s actions are doing a lot of talking. I may revise my opinion by the end of 3×04 knowing all the circumstances.
Seeing the others who have lost their true loves, or thought they would have to learn to exist in a world where the other was alive but not theirs, they spiraled. They COULD NOT HANDLE IT. It’s bad enough to know they’re dead (look at Regina) but to know they exist in the world and aren’t with you? Is unthinkable. Yet BOTH Emma and Neal have had instances where we’ve been shown that they COULD and DID move on, knowing the other one was out there somewhere. That’s been set up for a reason, especially when these are writers that focus on TL and have made a point of showing us what it can make you do when you lose it and then show us that these guys? Aren’t reacting that way.
@MysteryKat – I could not agree any more with what you said. We saw Regina spiral. We saw Killian spiral. And also we saw Snow spiral. When Snow told Charming that she didn’t love him she felt she had destroyed her chance with him. She didn’t spiral in an evil way but she did resort to using magic in order to forget her pain. We saw Alice from OUATIW spiral when she thought Cyrus was dead.
While I’m sure that Emma is grieving for Neal on the inside SHE IS KISSING KILLIAN, and passionately at that. I mean, i just feel like we’ve been shown time and again that Swanfire defy every rule that Adam and Eddy have laid out for what true love is.I feel Neal is still emotionally stinted and Hook is more of the adult in that respect. Neal still has a side of selfishness in him, whether it is intentional or not. He can be a bit impulsive and the latest example of that is when he nearly sacrifices Roland’s safety to get to Emma and Henry in NL. That scene bothered me on so many levels.
@JasmineGirl – yeah me too. And he’s four years old – toddlers repeat EVERYTHING, especially when those words bring magical flying shadows. Methinks RH and Roland will be arriving in Neverland in 3×04.
So now that my kissing headcanon is going to be fulfilled, i’m outlining what I think is going to happen for the rest of the season and possibly season 4. It’ll probably change as we move through though.I believe Emma will put off her choice when Neal comes back into the picture. She won’t go back to one guy only to run back to the other. If Emma chooses Neal (not going to happen) then Killian is not her True Love. If Emma chooses Killian then Neal is not her True Love. It’s pretty cut and dried to me. True Love conquers all and all that. It just doesn’t make sense that if Neal was her True Love that she would be at all conflicted about it, there would be no “triangle”. Look at Rumple and Belle. Despite everything Rumple has done, Belle still forgives him and stays with him. She can’t help herself.
Also of course Emma has not yet fallen in love with Killian, and that’s what will make her so confused.
I believe that Killian will be pivotal to saving Henry in 3×09, which could arguably be backed up by the fact that Christine Boylan is writing it.
In 3×11 they’ll all return to SB (hopefully in a flying JR suspended by Tinkerbells pixie dust), but of course, *stuff* will hit the fan. We’re going to be left with a cliff hanger of some sort (one that will possibly involve Emma and Killian).
3×12-3×22 will be all action. Emma won’t have time to think about who she is going to choose, because stuff will be hitting the fan.In 3×22 (or possibly 3×11 but I think 3×22 is more likely) Killian will tell Emma that he loves her (and thus mirroring 3×01 with the “fancy you” line) and they will be separated somehow. Don’t ask me how lol. But then season 4 will be all about Killian and Emma finding each other. Interestingly this would be the first and only time that Emma is trying to find someone who is also, AT THE SAME TIME, trying to find her. Very fitting wouldn’t you think? Also during this time Emma will be showing Neal through her actions rather than her words that she is choosing Killian and he will slowly come to accept it.
What do you guys think? Plausible? 😉Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
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