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Well, I think he’s not really stepping back – it’s more like he feels this guilt towards Neal, because he thinks he destroyed his family before. (Thats not what I think – I think Milah chose him, she chose to go with him because she fell in love.) And that’s why he’ll take a moment to see if he could cope with doing this again. But of course like I said after that short while he’ll fight for Emma. Let her know he likes her a lot and ultimately – as you said, Eala – let her chose.
Your theory about the HO in SB and them separating Killian and Emma – I can totally imagine that! Though it would be sad to see Emma hurt again – because she would be if Killian “leaves” her, too. Maybe someone threatens Killian like: “If you don’t go and do that and that, I’ll hurt Emma.” or something like that.
Thank you so much for posting the pic again. Feels. If this is AFTER the kiss then all my doubts are gone. Because THAT is LOVE and nothing else.
What do you all think about the Phoenix-theory the SFers are discussing? It sounds plausible but we don’t know if it really shows the phoenix in the stars, so … ?!
[adrotate group="5"]And that’s why he’ll take a moment to see if he could cope with doing this again. But of course like I said after that short while he’ll fight for Emma. Let her know he likes her a lot and ultimately – as you said, Eala – let her chose.
Yeah this could happen. As we can see from the picture they’re both pretty OVERWHELMED with their feelings for each other. So yeah, he could totally decide to take a while to figure it all out 🙂
Your theory about the HO in SB and them separating Killian and Emma – I can totally imagine that! Though it would be sad to see Emma hurt again – because she would be if Killian “leaves” her, too. Maybe someone threatens Killian like: “If you don’t go and do that and that, I’ll hurt Emma.” or something like that.
I don’t think she would be hurt for long, because somehow she’ll find out that he didn’t leave her voluntarily. And then they’ll be fighting to find each other – which i believe would be SO FITTING since it would be the very first time that Emma is looking for someone while they are simultaneously looking for her.
It’s just a theory though, and it could totally change within the next few episodes. But I DEFINITELY believe that they will be separated at some stage. They have been paralleled so extensively to Snowing that I couldn’t see it not happening.
Thank you so much for posting the pic again. Feels. If this is AFTER the kiss then all my doubts are gone. Because THAT is LOVE and nothing else.
No doubts my dear, i promise you, they’re going to be endgame 😉
*Dreamy sigh* yes. Well it’s definitely not at the start of the kiss because we saw the promo. So it has to be between kisses (eeeeeeek more than one) or at the end. And if it is at the end of the kiss this picture means that Emma’s walls aren’t slamming up straight away (which I actually expected to happen). I WILL DIE WHEN I SEE THIS KISS my god I actually think I will
What do you all think about the Phoenix-theory the SFers are discussing? It sounds plausible but we don’t know if it really shows the phoenix in the stars, so … ?!
I’m not familiar with this theory. Do you mean the map in the cave? Well maybe it is a phoenix-map or maybe it’s not, but it doesn’t really mean anything because it was before Neal met Emma, and even if it’s some form of foreshadowing the only think that really connects Emma and Neal to Phoenix is their son. I don’t buy this whole phoenix symbolism thing the SF shippers love, because Phoenix was where
1) Emma was sent to jail as a direct result of Neal’s choices and
2) Where she subsequently gave up their son
So to me the whole phoenix thing has negative connotations and I don’t get the romance. But to each their own! *shrugs*
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
You know, it would be very cool to have Emma be very certain of Hook’s love for her as another parallel to Snowing.
I like both of Eala’s theories. Pan is definately wanting Emma to feel alone like an orphan, unloved. She is obviously loved by several people but she has never ALLOWED herself to feel loved by someone from the get go because of her trust issues. In my opinion, what she had with Neal was pretty messed up – when I go back and look at it I don’t think it was ever really love at all. I think it was a lonely, “lost” teenager desparate for someone to connect with. Emma and Neal were connected in a very BAD way. They were involved in crime together, she ended up in jail, and became an unwed teenage mother. That sounds like a really dysfunctional relationship to me. Maybe as a mother with a 12 year old son I’m too old to be watching this show from the perspective they want me to be, but if Emma was my daughter there is no way I would look at that relationship and call it love. And if I were her mother and that guy showed back up when she was an adult I would be doing everything possible to remind her of the terrible decisions she was making while she was with him and how she ended up pregnant and in jail because of him. I would NOT be happy to see him back in her life again. Now, I understand there are circumstances that have to do with her being the Savior that complicate matters, but my point is I don’t think they loved each other – I think they found someone they could survive with.
So back to my point, Emma has never allowed herself to just put her walls down and believe that people love her. I still don’t think she truely believes her parents love her, and I think she still struggles with Henry also loving Regina. If Pan’s goal is to get Henry to feel unloved and to also get Emma to feel like an orphan and accept that she is unloved – I can see how they could be setting it up for Hook to be the first person she is just going to flat out accept loves her. He gets nothing out of saving Henry, he gets nothing out of saving her dad from the DreamShade (I’m assuming he will have something to do with that), and he has shown her that he cared for Neal. Hook is the first person who has loved Emma simply because of who she is, not because he is related to her or because he has some dysfunctional reason to need her. I think they learn a lot from each other and make each other better people.
So Hook could be kind of like Charming’s True Love’s Kiss saving Snow after she ate the apple. Is she accepts that he loves her then Pan won’t be successful in getting her to feel like an unloved orphan. It could even be that Emma doesn’t realize just HOW sure of Hook’s love she is until Pan’s plan isn’t successful – that could be the moment she realizes that she truely trusts him.
Like Eala said this could also lead into parallel’s of Snowings “I will always find you.” Even if something happens that separates them, she will always know that Hook loves her and so she will always be confident that they will find a way to be together – like what Snow says about if two people really love each other they will find a way to be together.
You could even take it a step further and, depending on what we find out about Hook’s back story, bring Hook into realizing he is truely loved by Emma as well. I’m guessing that the reason he is making such a big deal about David not telling anyone about the DreamShade is because he wasn’t told about it when he was on the island and that made him feel unloved. Hook obviously has issues about family abandonment/love as well. Maybe for Pan’s plan to be thwarted you have to be confident that love flows both ways. So if Emma can resist Pan’s plan then that would be how they would know that they both truely love each other.
you all have to watch this fanvid. it takes ‘something there’ from Disney’s Beauty and the Beast and sets to Captain Swan.
Do you mean the map in the cave? Well maybe it is a phoenix-map or maybe it’s not, but it doesn’t really mean anything because it was before Neal met Emma, and even if it’s some form of foreshadowing the only think that really connects Emma and Neal to Phoenix is their son. I don’t buy this whole phoenix symbolism thing the SF shippers love, because Phoenix was where 1) Emma was sent to jail as a direct result of Neal’s choices and 2) Where she subsequently gave up their son So to me the whole phoenix thing has negative connotations and I don’t get the romance. But to each their own! *shrugs*
Yes, I mean the map in the cave. I’m thinking of the whole concept of the phoenix. That it rises from the ashes. It died at one time (like SF) and then it rises again stronger than before from the ashes of a palm tree (the name Tamara means palm or date tree). Maybe this means something, although I hope it didn’t.
In my opinion, what she had with Neal was pretty messed up – when I go back and look at it I don’t think it was ever really love at all. I think it was a lonely, “lost” teenager desparate for someone to connect with. Emma and Neal were connected in a very BAD way. They were involved in crime together, she ended up in jail, and became an unwed teenage mother. That sounds like a really dysfunctional relationship to me.
And your right with that. That’s what I think too. But Emma clearly felt she loved him. She waited two years for him in Tallahassee AFTER he did all that to her. She must’ve loved him at this point or she wouldn’t have done that IMO. But you could have a point by saying that they found someone they could survive with. This feeling may have lead Emma to thinking she “loved” Neal. I have a feeling that deep down she still feels like Neal is kind of her “home”.
So Hook could be kind of like Charming’s True Love’s Kiss saving Snow after she ate the apple. Is she accepts that he loves her then Pan won’t be successful in getting her to feel like an unloved orphan. It could even be that Emma doesn’t realize just HOW sure of Hook’s love she is until Pan’s plan isn’t successful – that could be the moment she realizes that she truely trusts him.
Wow, yes, I’d like that!! 🙂
@obisgirl I can’t watch the video cause I’m in Germany. 🙁That video is so, so, so cute!!! Especially when it gets to the part that says “he’s no Prince Charming” – works so well since that’s her Daddy!!
And how did I not remember Snow telling Emma that she had feelings for Hook????!
Love it!
You know, it would be very cool to have Emma be very certain of Hook’s love for her as another parallel to Snowing.
Yes I would like that! And vice-versa of course. Killian thinks he’s the “worst human around” and that his heart is rotten. You can also see in 3×02, when Emma says that she is the product of True Love and the camera pans to him, he has this expression on his face where I think he’s going “Jeez, I really like her and there’s enough pressure here already, do I deserve to have the product of TL?”. Both of these people need an injection of TL, stat! My poor babies. I love them both so much.
In my opinion, what she had with Neal was pretty messed up – when I go back and look at it I don’t think it was ever really love at all. I think it was a lonely, “lost” teenager desparate for someone to connect with. Emma and Neal were connected in a very BAD way. They were involved in crime together, she ended up in jail, and became an unwed teenage mother. That sounds like a really dysfunctional relationship to me.
Yeah I would mostly agree here. I mean, I accept that she did love him and still does. Of course she does! He was the first person ever to show her any kind of love in a world where she had none. But yes, I was talking about that quote Killian made in 3×04 a few pages back about Neal being referred to as “her partner in crime”. I mean, yes that’s an expression of teamwork, but a very BAD one. When I heard that line all I could compare it to was “Emma I don’t mean to upset you but we make quite the team!” and they were working towards a common goal. Different motivations, but still, more positive connotations to that line than to “your partner in crime Neal”. Swanfire was/is a very immature love. I mean, we’ve all seen the way Emma reverts back to her 17 year old self around him haven’t we? And when she talks about him? To me their relationship is just waaaay unhealthy.
Emma has never allowed herself to just put her walls down and believe that people love her.
I do believe Neal loved her. But I agree with what you said there, you’re putting me in mind of when Neal said he had to leave her and go to Canada and she was like “why?” in a very cynical tone. And to stop him from leaving her (both times by the way!) she told him she loved him – how is that relationship in ANY way healthy? That’s what I want to know. Those are NOT circumstances under which you should have to express your love.
He gets nothing out of saving Henry, he gets nothing out of saving her dad from the DreamShade (I’m assuming he will have something to do with that), and he has shown her that he cared for Neal.
See, i’m kind of in two minds about this. I do believe that he wants to change for the better and become a hero – and that’s what is character arc is about this season – but I also believe he has ulterior motives in some ways because he is doing this for her so that she might come to return his feelings. He’s fighting for her, fighting to prove that he’s good enough for her, fighting to win her approval. And that’s a good thing. Emma needs someone who thinks she’s amazing enough that they would do that for her.
Hook is the first person who has loved Emma simply because of who she is, not because he is related to her or because he has some dysfunctional reason to need her. I think they learn a lot from each other and make each other better people.
Yes. Completely agree. I saw a gifset a while ago comparing Hook telling Emma that she was an orphan and still wanting to be with her to Neal saying “if I knew who you were, I wouldn’t have gone near you”. And yes, they do learn a lot from each other AND make each other better people. Definitely. I know that others say that what Neal did – leaving Emma – was a huge self sacrifice but to be honest I say that’s rubbish. It was to get Emma home but it was also to avoid his father. But the way he did it was just so unbelievably selfish – he must have known about her abandonment issues, and to leave her with no closure, well that’s cowardly in the extreme end of the spectrum.
Yes, I mean the map in the cave. I’m thinking of the whole concept of the phoenix. That it rises from the ashes. It died at one time (like SF) and then it rises again stronger than before from the ashes of a palm tree (the name Tamara means palm or date tree). Maybe this means something, although I hope it didn’t.
I highly doubt it’s a coincidence that these things are connected.
But no, I definitely don’t think their relationship is going to rise from the ashes of Tamara. If anything Tamara is just one more thing to add to the list of things Emma should be angry at Neal about.
0% worried 🙂 honestly. There are waaaaay too many other things going in our favour for me to believe that – based on actual, you know, scenes from the show, rather than relying on names and what they mean 🙂
Speaking of, everyone should read this meta: http://ladyhacksaway.tumblr.com/post/64499208331/you-really-truly-believe-captain-swan-will-be-end-game
But seriously, ever since they met up again in Manhattan their scenes together have been nothing much other than a sequence of confusing, angry and emotionally fraught conversations, with a friendly one thrown into the mix (where he tells her he always finds what she’s looking for – although interestingly she didn’t find him when she wanted to). Even cursed Snowing did better than that!
And your right with that. That’s what I think too. But Emma clearly felt she loved him. She waited two years for him in Tallahassee AFTER he did all that to her. She must’ve loved him at this point or she wouldn’t have done that IMO. But you could have a point by saying that they found someone they could survive with. This feeling may have lead Emma to thinking she “loved” Neal. I have a feeling that deep down she still feels like Neal is kind of her “home”.
Yep she waited for two years – but she GAVE UP, and that’s what’s important here. She gave up on him, on their dream of Tallahassee. And in their conversation on the beach, she told him he had “found Tallahassee with someone else”. And he HAD – Neal had moved on with Tamara and was genuinely in love with her. Tallahassee has effectively been COMPLETELY SEVERED as a possible home for them. I have a hard time believing that Emma would consider Tallahassee her home when she spent two heartbroken years of her life waiting for him there and hearing nothing.
@obisgirl – LOVE that video. 🙂Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
@rumplegoldfan – the “Hook” was edited in there unfortunately! They were talking about Graham 🙂
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Yep she waited for two years – but she GAVE UP, and that’s what’s important here. She gave up on him, on their dream of Tallahassee. And in their conversation on the beach, she told him he had “found Tallahassee with someone else”. And he HAD – Neal had moved on with Tamara and was genuinely in love with her. Tallahassee has effectively been COMPLETELY SEVERED as a possible home for them. I have a hard time believing that Emma would consider Tallahassee her home when she spent two heartbroken years of her life waiting for him there and hearing nothing.
Yes, you’re right. She gave up because she went away. I’m sorry about me having these throwbacks all the time, but I have to remind myself once in a while that it’s really gonna happen. I tend to be overmodest (I hope thats the right word) about things I really want so that I’m not so sad when it’s not happening. ONLY 4 days (well, 5 for me…) left, then it’s gonna happen, mates!!!:)
Wow, we’ve got 200 pages now.
Second sneak peek for 3×05 Good Form is up.
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