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oncemusicfan and Eala – I have a feeling that we won’t see Neal mentioning Tamara ever again.
Oh, I have quite the opposite feeling actually! Well, not that Neal will bring Tamara up, but I think that certainly Emma will, and Tink too. That watch was focussed in on for a reason, that watch was brought IN for a reason IMO. Tink could have just said “Oh yeah, Pan killed those lackeys of his that brought your son here”. But no, they showed and emphasised the watch, TAMARA’S watch, and how she had to scrub blood off it all night. It’s going to come back into play, of that i’m 95% sure. If they don’t then there was no point in wasting precious screen time on the watch.
I can can see it from your point of view to I guess I had been seeing the sleeping curse as Emma making the ultimate choice of sacrifice just like Snow and Henry did. Emma would have to give herself up to the curse for it to work. (I also have this Peter Pan as the Sandman theory things would sort of fit nicely with). For whatever reason she makes the conscious choice to accept the curse. To me having Emma’s curse only broken by one of them says that even if the hadn’t admitted it to each other that they have chosen each other. The kiss is dependent on them choosing each other as their true love at that point all doubt would basically be removed.
See, this is something I’ve always wondered about – is True Love itself a conscious choice? Snowing chose to be with each other, to find each other whatever the cost. That was their conscious choice, that was them giving everything they had of themselves to the other, and that’s what made it True.
And then we have Rumbelle – who we know are a TL couple, BUT, I don’t think that Rumple has completely chosen to… let it take over, if you know what I mean. When Belle first kissed him, the Dark One curse started to fade away – but then Rumple made a conscious decision to reject that love. We know that TL can break any curse, so every time Rumbelle kiss the Dark One curse should break. But it doesn’t. And we can also establish that Rumbelle don’t have a psychic connection as he didn’t know she was alive when Regina held her captive. I believe Rumple is “at fault” here – he hasn’t given everything he is to Belle, hasn’t let his “essence” intermingle with Belle’s completely. That’s just my opinion though.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
See, this is something I’ve always wondered about – is True Love itself a conscious choice? Snowing chose to be with each other, to find each other whatever the cost. That was their conscious choice, that was them giving everything they had of themselves to the other, and that’s what made it True. And then we have Rumbelle – who we know are a TL couple, BUT, I don’t think that Rumple has completely chosen to… let it take over, if you know what I mean. When Belle first kissed him, the Dark One curse started to fade away – but then Rumple made a conscious decision to reject that love. We know that TL can break any curse, so every time Rumbelle kiss the Dark One curse should break. But it doesn’t. And we can also establish that Rumbelle don’t have a psychic connection as he didn’t know she was alive when Regina held her captive. I believe Rumple is “at fault” here – he hasn’t given everything he is to Belle, hasn’t let his “essence” intermingle with Belle’s completely. That’s just my opinion though.
i think that depends on what you believe some people believe that love is a choice we choose who we love. Other people see it as something involuntary that just happens. Rumple’s problem is the same as it’s always been since he lost Bae through the portal. He in this conflict with himself about choosing his power over the ones he loves. I think he was doing better when it comes to letting Belle in but I mean it’s clear he hasn’t opened himself up completely, he’s not ready to give up his magic
But you see, IF Neal is Emma’s TL (lol) WHY (logically and without shipper goggles on) would they establish Killian as a viable love interest AT ALL? If Neal is Emma’s TL then shouldn’t he ALREADY be well established as a character by this point? They waited to introduce Neal in the episode where Emma meets Hook, and right off the bat Neal created a barrier between Captain Swan.
That same can be said of SF though & it has been … to death! I promise you that 😉 . As to your 1st point, I have NEVER, EVER said Neal & Emma are or were TL- not once, because I dont feel they fit the definition of TL as the show has thus far portrayed it.
Neal was simply the 1st person whom Emma opened up to/dropped her walls & let him in, then fell in love with & he loved her back- it wasnt TL IMO, or there is no way he’d have stayed away for so long, nor moved onto a relationship with Tamara- it’s that simple really. So they have to set the triangle up- Neal is Henry’s father (as a tie to Emma), but hurt her deeply- however both have said they still have feelings for the other. Hook is no relation, but was a villain (I personally see him more of an anti hero), so needs redeeming & some strong connecting to Emma, before they can have a viable triangle (which they have done, Killian has now saved her father’s life).
IF Neal is Emma’s TL then Killian shouldn‘t stand a chance. Swanfire have a plethora of obstacles to get through already, they do not need Killian in the mix. A man who loves her, will do anything for her, understands her, puts her needs above his own and will fight for her. But Captain Swan needs Neal to create angst.
Again- I NEVER said SF are or were TL, so I feel this is invalid to the point I was making 🙂
Emma has KISSED Killian despite the fact that her supposed TL has just died. Kissing is a huge deal to her, it’s not something she does lightly. And we have basically been hit over the head with the fact that we’re going to get MORE kisses. And Neal is coming back in 3×06. We’re going to get more kisses DESPITE the fact that Neal, Emma’s supposed TL, will be back in the picture.
Well so far ALL the actors involved have said there is no more kissing- at least not until AFTER Henry is saved, so well I think Emma’s “One time thing” is some serious denial on her part 😉 I dont think there is going to be much CS snogging until after they’ve saved Henry & even then, Emma will probably pull back as the dynamics will change now Henry is back in the picture- I dont want them running around lip locking every 5 steps like randy teenagers- but that’s just my opinion 😉
Logically it makes no sense to me that if Neal is Emma’s True Love that she would fall for Killian at all, but she has. JMo has basically said that Emma is drawn to both of them and has feelings for both. When Neal comes back into the picture, her feelings for Killian aren’t going to just disappear. If Emma is supposedly IN TRUE LOVE with Neal, then it should be no contest. Neal would win hands down. Killian just would not figure into the equation whatsoever. It would be all about how Neal and Emma having to repair their relationship, and a mere (LOL) kiss would not affect anything.
Again – they arent TL in my eyes, which is WHY they have to set up the triangle, so these points only validate my reasoning in the above post further.
BUT she is equally torn between the two of them, and she isn’t even in love with Killian yet. When she realises she is, this intangible triangle will be gone. I say intangible because it’s nothing more than Killian and Emma, and both having painful ties to Neal.
That is only how we see it at this point- I want it to be true, but Emma has clearly said she still has unresolved feelings for Neal- so he still has a ‘chance’ (not that I think he deserves one!) We dont know if they will ‘back’ Neal, as they have done Killian in the next half, to even the playing field with Emma, we dont know what they will do yet…. until the next half gets here & I see what they are doing with Neal if anything I’m not going to count him out entirely. I have already said I agree with you on Neal’s character to date, I think most of us feel the same way about his character. Also remember Adam & Eddy said clearly last year Emma would have multiple suitors- she was going to go through a sort of shadowing of teenage dating, when you shop for what makes you happiest/ who’s the right fit for you etc. We didnt get that because Colin broke & was out of action, so we are getting this season instead, if they’d pushed Neal last season, it’d be very hard to get fans interested in Hook/Killian at all, as we’d all know Neal was it/ endgame.
And then there are the spoiler pictures for 3×10 where they’re back in SB, and CS are STILL working as a team, side by side, even though Neal is around. If Neal and Emma are TL then do you really think Neal would leave her side again when *stuff* is going down? When he has already abandoned her once before and is trying to make up for it? Nah. If it’s actually a triangle, do you think Neal would allow Killian to have ANY advantage by working with Emma without Neal around? Nah. So yeah, even if they develop Neal’s character to the moon and back in 3×12-3×22, I still won’t see him as a viable competitor to Emma’s heart. Seriously, I have no doubts as to the endgame-ness of our ship. I have complete faith in the story they’re telling.
But again it’s seems you assume I think SF are TL- Again I don’t, otherwise like you say a triangle wouldnt be unnecessary, so your point again only proves what I’ve already said- they NEEDED to set Hook up as a viable love interest this season as (atm) Neither Hook or Neal are Emma’s TL- could Killian become/ be proven to be her TL- of course, but right now we dont know that. Personally feel making Killian her TL would be an awesome story line, as it’d create drama within the family & extended family dynamics, which = more storytelling options- but that’s just my opinion 😉
I also agree that we need to see Neal deal with what went down with Tamara- if we dont Neal is going to be an even worse plot device than August/Pino was (with his magical anti-aging exit) :/
As to your 1st point, I have NEVER, EVER said Neal & Emma are or were TL- not once, because I dont feel they fit the definition of TL as the show has thus far portrayed it.
Sorry, I know you don’t think they’re TL, I was just trying to emphasise why I don’t think this “triangle” will be an actual romantic triangle! 😉 I was just trying to get my point across that if Neal is Emma’s TL then a triangle would not exist IMO. At all.
Hook is no relation, but was a villain (I personally see him more of an anti hero), so needs redeeming & some strong connecting to Emma, before they can have a viable triangle (which they have done, Killian has now saved her father’s life).
See, all the points I was trying to make, which I probably didn’t make clear enough, were reasons why I don’t think they’re setting up a “viable” triangle at all. The more I think about it the more convinced I become. A viable triangle in this case would indicate that Emma is in love with both men and is flipping back and forth between the two, unable to make a choice. But that’s not what’s going to happen at all IMO – I think Emma is going to shut down and focus completely on the mission to #SaveHenry until she realises the depths of her feelings for Killian (which I believe will happen in 3×11 or 3×22 at the latest), and it is then that the “choice” will be made, and it will be made for good.
The writers have downplayed the triangle over and over, saying that the media is hyping it up. Every time they mention Swanfire it’s that things aren’t so rosy between them. Every time they mention CS they bring up Neal as an obstacle. I just cannot bring myself to see Neal as a threat to CS at all, not the way the show has portrayed it so far. I mean, 3×06 is most likely going to focus in on Killian’s reactions to the possibility of/the actual SF reunion.. They’re already focussing on how Killian is going to handle it, so it makes sense that they would focus on how he feels about it’s occurrence as well. Which, well, very much downplays the SF reuinion to me, and shows that the “triangle” itself will actually be very short. This is all just my speculation, but my speculations have actually played out 90% of the time.
Well so far ALL the actors involved have said there is no more kissing- at least not until AFTER Henry is saved, so well I think Emma’s “One time thing” is some serious denial on her part
I dont think there is going to be much CS snogging until after they’ve saved Henry & even then, Emma will probably pull back as the dynamics will change now Henry is back in the picture- I dont want them running around lip locking every 5 steps like randy teenagers- but that’s just my opinion Lol – I don’t think they’re going to run around kissing like teenagers, no way!!! 🙂 And no there won’t be any more kisses until they #SaveHenry but the fact that they have indicated that there will be more kisses – well to me that just proves that she will pick Killian, especially combined with the fact that I don’t think the triangle will be an actual one. And just as a side note, I cannot see Emma kissing Neal anytime soon. In fact if she does I would probably stop watching the show, because it is completely against all the character development Emma has received. It would be a complete regression of her character IMO. And Neal’s also – we want him to learn to stop his “nasty habit” of taking away people’s choices – a resurgence of SF would completely validate his use of his nasty habits.
We dont know if they will ‘back’ Neal, as they have done Killian in the next half, to even the playing field with Emma, we dont know what they will do yet…. until the next half gets here & I see what they are doing with Neal if anything I’m not going to count him out entirely.
Hm, well like I said, I cannot see Neal as a threat to our ship in any way whatsoever. If they wanted an even playing field, then they would have brought Neal into the show earlier.
It was Killian we saw first in 3×04. It is Killian who has had proper character development. It was both Killian and Emma who have had their “lovers” die in their arms. It was Killian and Emma who were paralleled extensively in 3×05. It is a pirate/sailor doll and a knight in Emma’s nursery. It is a picture of a ship in Emma’s room in Granny’s B&B.
Personally feel making Killian her TL would be an awesome story line, as it’d create drama within the family & extended family dynamics, which = more storytelling options- but that’s just my opinion
Yep, 100% agree with you there.
EDIT: Love that gifset 😉
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Neal was simply the 1st person whom Emma opened up to/dropped her walls & let him in, then fell in love with & he loved her back- it wasnt TL IMO, or there is no way he’d have stayed away for so long, nor moved onto a relationship with Tamara- it’s that simple really.
That’s exactly what I think, surayya. If you TRULY love someone you go and find the other one – no matter what someone else tells you. At the latest he should have seeked Emma out when he received the postcard. But he didn’t and he never planned to. IMO THAT is not TL.
Well so far ALL the actors involved have said there is no more kissing- at least not until AFTER Henry is saved, so well I think Emma’s “One time thing” is some serious denial on her part
I dont think there is going to be much CS snogging until after they’ve saved Henry & even then, Emma will probably pull back as the dynamics will change now Henry is back in the picture- I dont want them running around lip locking every 5 steps like randy teenagers- but that’s just my opinion This! SERIOUS denial – just look at her walking away from the kiss. Deeply shaken to the core – deeply. 😉 I agree that there won’t be any kissing any time soon. And I don’t want them to. That would emphasize that kissing someone isn’t something you do every five minutes. It is special and MEANS something, just like that kiss (well more like plural, kisses!) Emma and Killian shared.
That is only how we see it at this point- I want it to be true, but Emma has clearly said she still has unresolved feelings for Neal- so he still has a ‘chance’ (not that I think he deserves one!) We dont know if they will ‘back’ Neal, as they have done Killian in the next half, to even the playing field with Emma, we dont know what they will do yet…. until the next half gets here & I see what they are doing with Neal if anything I’m not going to count him out entirely. I have already said I agree with you on Neal’s character to date, I think most of us feel the same way about his character.
Totally agree with you there. I won’t count Neal out at this point. I want to see how Emma reacts when she sees him alive. It may be that she tries to be together with him again and then realize that she doesn’t love him anymore. And that her feelings for Killian are too strong to be denied….. *dream* 😉
Personally feel making Killian her TL would be an awesome story line, as it’d create drama within the family & extended family dynamics, which = more storytelling options- but that’s just my opinion
I also agree that we need to see Neal deal with what went down with Tamara- if we dont Neal is going to be an even worse plot device than August/Pino was (with his magical anti-aging exit) :/ Agreed. It would be an awesome story line and I hope they go there. Of course I do… 😉 And as I said before – we NEED to see Neal deal with Tamara. Although I think they won’t do that that is another thing IMO that is a lost opportunity to develop Neals character. Or he’ll remain as flat as he is now. I just wish I could see more of little Baelfire in Neal. 🙁
Thank you for the Gifset – it’s great! 🙂
@ Captain Eala – Totally get where you are coming from on the triangle now- I was was thinking ‘where did I say SF = TL’??? LOL 😉
I agree to a certain point with you on what they are doing- (I havent heard Adam & Eddy play down the triangle to date… in fact I’ve heard them talk more about SF than I have CS TBH- until just before Ep5 that is), so I guess time will tell on that score- I hope you are right, I want CS to happen, but I want it as endgame over it happening now (both would be nice though 😉 ) & not Emma ditching Killian, him regressing back into Hook & we end up with the male, pirate version of Regina last season (that flip flopping REALLY drove me nuts!)
I will also play devils advocate & say the show has pointed out clearly that Emma still has deep feelings for/over Neal (Which like you, I will be royally devastated & ticked off if they have her falling for Neal again- given all her character growth). So there is “something” there, I just hope they have her handle it as the Emma we’ve all come to love & not as a star struck teenager, pining for her 1st love. I do actually think that Emma was “truly” IN love with Neal (not TL mind you, just truly “IN” love), which is why she spent 2yrs in Tallahassee waiting/looking for him (TL would have had her never stop looking, so it wasnt TL IMO) after he let her go to jail- Emma had to have known why she was there- the cop that arrested her mentioned “her boy friend” & “watches” etc & she’s not an idiot.
There is one thing that bugs me looking back on S2 & I think they did this on purpose (to help Neal’s case)- I think they should have cast a younger actress as Emma, because she was supposed to be just 16/17yrs old when she meet Neal, then went to jail, then had Henry & gave him up at no more than 18yrs old. I dont think they cast a younger actress, because if they did, few if anyone, would be able to forgive Neal so lightly for what happened (even if they cast a younger actor to play him)- I mean if you imagine a 16/17yr old girl going through what Emma went through with Neal, jail, giving birth & giving her baby away, it becomes a whole lot more profound, than seeing a 30+ yr old going through it. Dont get me wrong JMo play her role well, but it didnt have the impact an age appropriate actress would have IMO, so I dont think they want people to ‘hate’ the idea of SF either (not that that has stopped many of us from doing so anyway lol :p )
@ Captain Eala – Totally get where you are coming from on the triangle now- I was was thinking ‘where did I say SF = TL’??? LOL
Soooo sorry haha, I went off on a tangent without making my point clear in the first place! 🙂
I agree to a certain point with you on what they are doing- (I havent heard Adam & Eddy play down the triangle to date… in fact I’ve heard them talk more about SF than I have CS TBH- until just before Ep5 that is), so I guess time will tell on that score- I hope you are right, I want CS to happen, but I want it as endgame over it happening now (both would be nice though
)They said specifically at one point during the summer that they are telling a story and that they weren’t hyping up the triangle, the media was, i’m 99% sure about that. As to them talking about SF more…. nope I don’t think so, unless I missed a lot of stuff. We’ve had so many clues already. I think during the summer Eddy was at one point casually saying “I think Hook could maybe end up with Emma? Who knows?” – er, YOU DO EDDY, lol. We’ve had things like it may be “too late” for Neal, and the concept of being “too late” has been repeated over and over, and how “feelings would be hard to deny” “Captain Swan won’t be smooth sailing” (which is a good thing because lalalala “True Love must be fought for”).
In 3×01 (written by A+E no less) we had them literally at the freaking stern together and paralleled with Snowing sailing through a storm aka LITERAL NOT SMOOTH SAILING. And we had him looking at her when talking about his happy ending and as he is being redeemed through his love for Emma it literally makes no sense to me that they aren’t each others HE because it would render his character arc redundant. And then we saw how worried he was when she came back from the sea because TWO of his loved ones had been sent to sea and the sea literally gave Emma back to him. And in 3×02 we saw how extensively paralleled they were to Snowing (and Rumbelle), how Killian sees her true self when even her own freaking mother doesn’t know, and we saw how Snowing were fighting to be together on their own terms rather than the Queens (FORESHADOWING), and how the dwarves welcoming Charming into the fold which started with a toast and ended with a kiss, and in turn in Good Form we saw HOW KILLIAN WAS WELCOMED INTO THE FOLD WITH A TOAST AND GOT A VERY SIMILAR KISS. We know that JMo plays Emma with a “flame of hope” around Killian and when Emma mentioned she was the product of TL she LOOKED at him, unconsciously thinking he was that possibility for her… I just … ugh … just help me. The feels.
Anyway, i’m going off on a tangent again, but we’ve had dozens of clues in the first 5 episodes alone, so yeah, no doubts here. And as far as i’m concerned that even though tonight we will see the establishment of the “triangle” we still have no clue who Neal really is, there has been no focus on who he is as a person, how he makes Emma better, how he puts her needs first an foremost, so he is not a true contender in my eyes… but that’s just my opinion…
not Emma ditching Killian, him regressing back into Hook & we end up with the male, pirate version of Regina last season (that flip flopping REALLY drove me nuts!)
Yep, Regina drove me nuts last year too, but Colin has basically told us in a recent interview that he WON’T regress back into Killian if Emma goes back to Neal. Because she makes him a better person, and if that’s not TL I don’t know what is. Heck, this week we’re probably going to see him put Emma’s needs above his own yet again by telling her about Neal (which i’m 99% sure now that’s he’s going to) and that is FREAKING TRUE LOVE I don’t care what the haters have to say.
I will also play devils advocate & say the show has pointed out clearly that Emma still has deep feelings for/over Neal (Which like you, I will be royally devastated & ticked off if they have her falling for Neal again- given all her character growth). So there is “something” there, I just hope they have her handle it as the Emma we’ve all come to love & not as a star struck teenager, pining for her 1st love. I do actually think that Emma was “truly” IN love with Neal (not TL mind you, just truly “IN” love), which is why she spent 2yrs in Tallahassee waiting/looking for him (TL would have had her never stop looking, so it wasnt TL IMO) after he let her go to jail
While I fully believe that Emma truly loves Neal, and was in love with him, I don’t think she was truly IN love if you get my meaning lol. But yes, agree with everything else you said there!
There is one thing that bugs me looking back on S2 & I think they did this on purpose (to help Neal’s case)- I think they should have cast a younger actress as Emma, because she was supposed to be just 16/17yrs old when she meet Neal, then went to jail, then had Henry & gave him up at no more than 18yrs old. I dont think they cast a younger actress, because if they did, few if anyone, would be able to forgive Neal so lightly for what happened (even if they cast a younger actor to play him)- I mean if you imagine a 16/17yr old girl going through what Emma went through with Neal, jail, giving birth & giving her baby away, it becomes a whole lot more profound, than seeing a 30+ yr old going through it.
YES to this. Also, something I’ve long said, that if Neal hadn’t been revealed to be Baelfire there would be FAR less sympathy for Neal and everything he’s done. The fact that he was Baelfire is what makes him sympathetic to a lot of SF shippers IMO. And while I love Baelfire, I just cannot reconcile his character with Neal’s. Bae went to NL with the Shadow so that Michael wouldn’t be taken. Neal put Roland in danger to get to NL. Bae wanted the choice to have a family with Rumple and yet Neal took away Rumple’s choice in having a family with him. Bae wanted closure for his father abandoning him and yet gave Emma no closure when he abandoned her. Honestly it drives me bonkers the way I perceive Neal and Bae to be so different, I wish I didn’t but I do.
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
While I fully believe that Emma truly loves Neal, and was in love with him, I don’t think she was truly IN love if you get my meaning lol.
This reminds me of:
If you’re in love with two people, pick the second one. You wouldn’t have fallen for them if you truly loved the first.
This quote right here is what makes me believe in our ship. So don’t worry guys. Feelings are complicated, emotions are complicated, but if there’s anything we’ve learned from this show is that hope is strong and love will always win out. And you can love two people at the same time, but you can’t be in love with two… You’re not really in love with the first if you fell for the second.
And I’m not even talking about just Emma, I’m talking about Neal here too.
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