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Ok, so I’ve sort of transcribed the exact dialogue from the ep (relating to CS/Emma/Hook), It is quite long though- so sorry in advance for this mega post! I have skipped some sentences, unrelated to CS happenings & to keep it as short as possible (with relevant inserted ‘assumed’ expressions relating to CS) …
- Emma making sure her Daddy & Hook were well out of ear shot & the look on her face was almost terrified when she was telling Snow it was Hook she kissed….. (why would she care who over heard her if that kiss really meant nothing)
- Snow’s look of motherly ‘well that explains those looks!’ & ‘what does this mean exactly’ as she says “Oh…Why?”
- Emma “I dont know! I was .. Its been a while, I was feeling “good”.
- That smile on Snow’s face as she said “Did it mean anything?”
- Snow “Im sure Neal will understand.
- Emma “If he’s still alive”
- Snow “Emma, I get what you’re doing you know. You dont want to open yourself up to the hope that he could be alive, but you should”.
- Which stops Emma in her tracks, with a look of annoyance of her face “Why?!”
- Snow “Because you deserve a happy ending & Happy endings always start with hope” -Insert Emma’s look of shock & sadness.
Thoughts… I really wonder if at this point Emma was wondering if Neal wasnt really her happy ending after all, because she was terrified of him being alive. Which then kind of foreshadows CS – Emma felt the Kiss with Killian was important enough to tell Snow about it in the 1st place (despite her “it’s just a kiss”- which is exactly the same as her “I dont have feelings for Neal” all last season), she didnt have to tell anyone, esp if she had really felt nothing… I mean why would she tell Snow (esp after the whole Whale/1 night stand thing)?! So it must have meant something much more to Emma than she has let on & maybe those feelings stirred some hope in her for a new kind of love (hence her reaction to their kiss), which could then be part of the reason for hoping Neal was dead. She was starting to see what love should be like through Snowing & even Killian- being partners, equals, giving & taking, always being there, but never expecting or forcing the other into doing what was wanted & comparing it with what she had & felt for Neal, so when Snow says you “DESERVE” a happy ending & most of what Neal has caused her is pain, she wonders if what they had was really what happy ever afters are supposed to be. As an aside, we should also maybe consider that it’s possible the reason Emma liked Neal, was in part tied to the stuff/skills that Hook taught Bae- much like Neal liked Emma as she reminded him of Wendy
- Out side Echo Cave ….
- Hook “Echo Cave”
- Snow “You know it”
- Hook “All too Well, I’ve lost 1/2 my crew inside those rock walls (insert Snow’s ‘shocked off her rock’ face LOL & note that Emma has moved from behind Snow & furthest from Hook, to right up front, next & closest to Hook) … The only way to rescue someone from inside, is to reveal a secret”
- Snow confused “A secret, that’s all?”
- Hook “The darkest, secret. Echo Cave derives its name from an old saying ‘the deeper the lie, the more truth in its echo’. (insert Emma’s look of dread) The cave demands you reveal a truth about yourself, a secret you’d never admit to anyone”
- Emma “This is ridiculous” (Harry Potter flashback :p )
- Hook (playfully) “Dont kill the messenger love” (knowing what his secret would be- I’m surprised he wasnt more nervous- but Colin said it could well be how Hook hides his serious feelings for Emma)
- Emma “Even if we spill our guts, how do we know Neal is still alive in there”
- Hook “Because this is what Pan wants, he wants us to rescue him”
- Charming “Why?”
- Hook “So that we reveal our secrets; he believes once we do, our secrets will destroy us” (insert Snow’s horrified face) …. I love slow motion options
Thoughts … So Pan wants Emma to admit that She loves Neal & probably always will- so it will destroy her. Hook is supposed to admit he cares for Emma, so it will turn her & the others against him, Snow is meant to admit she wants a baby to turn Emma against her & Charming admit he lied to Snow to turn them against each other…. anyone else getting a total Henry “look what magic has done to you all! You are supposed to be hero’s & you are talking about killing my mom/Regina” flashback here??? Seems like Pan is trying to turn Henry’s family against each other & they just keep coming out stronger & stronger (for the most part). As an side observation, I find it interesting how Emma & Hook seem to position themselves close to each other more often than not- could this be a little TL tell maybe, they have an unconscious pull towards one another..
- In Echo Cave:
- Emma’s look of terror when she saw Neal was really alive as he shouted “EMMA!” & her physically having to step back. The look of fear on Hooks face, was heartbreaking.
- Emma “So what do we do”
- Hook (insert Hook’s own look of dread mingled fear) “I told you what needs to be done (insert Charming’s look of dread), consider this a moment of truth- literally. Now, who wants to kick things off?”
- Emma “So.. what, someone tells their secret & they sprout wings”
- Hook “I dont know the particulars, only what I’ve been told”
- Charming “Well how do you know it’ll work?” (insert Hook nervous behavior, as he plucks up the courage to reveal his secret & then the worried look Snow keeps giving him in the back ground)
- Hook “There’s only one way to find out I suppose (insert Hook being OH SO MUCH BRAVER than the others & his worried, concerned look as he says) …… I kissed Emma. (insert Emma’s ‘what? ‘Seriously?! look)”
- Charming “You did WHAT!”
- Snow “David, now is Not the time”
- Emma I already told MM, so technically its not a secret. But it was just a kiss, how is that your darkest secret?”
- Hook “Its what the kiss exposed (insert Emma’s shocked face), my secret is, I never thought I’d be capable of letting go of.. my 1st love, of my Milah (insert Snows ‘oh wow’ it was more than a kiss to him! look). To believe that I could find someone else, that is until I meet you (insert Emma’s shocked expression).”
- (insert Emma’s look of ‘feeling’ {she had a very similar look when Henry hugged her the 1st time & when MM was touched Emma had called them family}- the one that looks like love is hurting her look , then she looks at Hook, who returns with a look of apology/vulnerability/ hope/pain/sadness [dang Colin can act!- love the layers he coats Hook in…WOW!!], Hook then turns to David to see his reaction, David gives him a look of understanding & his nod of acceptance, with the ‘I get you really care for my daughter… but I have to dislike you because of liking my daughter’, dad mode hehe. Then as Snowing move away from the edge to reveal their secrets- Emma steps towards Hook & it looks like she wants to say something {her mouth opens & she raises her hand towards Hook as she strides towards him, then drops it as she turns towards Snowing as she stands next to him, while Hook watches her})
- (I wont mention the agony on Snow’s & Charming’s faces for this here, but they both had looks of utter pain on their faces for their confessions) Snow “Ever since the curse broke, since we found each other, since we found Emma (insert confused Emma & Charming expressions). In all of that happiness there is something I havent wanted to admit. Our daughter is a Beautiful, Smart, Amazing women (insert Emma’s ‘it hurts to feel love/emotions’ expression & Hook watching her every expression- I guess trying to figure out how she received the news of his secret), whom I love very much & of whom I could not be more proud. But she’s all grown up. & as much as I want to pretend I’m ok with that, I’m not! We missed it David! What we have with her is unique, but it’s not what I wanted. (Insert Emma’s look of pain *almost had me in tears in slow motion*) We were cheated out of everything- her 1st step! Her 1st word! her 1st smile! We missed it all.
- Charming “what are you saying”
- Snow “When we get off this island & get back to SB, I want another go at it…. I want to have another baby” (note that the look Charming gives Snow, is almost identical to the one Hook gave Emma here)
- Charming “Nothing in this world would make me happier (insert Hook’s look of pain) & I know with all my heart that…. you would make an amazing mother. (Emma’s confused expression & again a look of pain from Hook) But it can never happen, at least not with me”
- Snow “What do you mean?”
- Charming “When Hook & I went to search for the sextant, he was really taking me to find a cure”
- Snow “A cure for what!?”
- Charming “Dreamshade”
- Snow “The lost boys, the arrow, you pushed me out of the way”
- Charming “I wasnt fast enough, I was hit. Hook was able to find a cure, but it comes at a price. I cant leave NL, if I do, I’ll die”
- (Emma shares a look of horror with Snow, then David & then with Hook, who has a look of despair on his face as she walks across the bridge to Neal)
- Emma “You ok?” (insert ‘closed off’ look in her eyes)
- Neal “Yeah, but Henry I umm” (Im a puppy dog ‘forgive me’ look)
- Emma “It’s ok, we’re gonna take care of him, we just gotta get you outta there 1st”
- Neal “Wha… Emma, Emma! Emma! You know that’s not how this works (insert look of ‘feelings are painful’)…. It’s ok, you can tell me anything”
- Emma (insert heartbreaking vulnerable look for the whole dialogue) “When I heard you might be here, that you might still be alive… I knew I should be happy, but I wasnt; I was, terrified. I didnt understand why until now. From the moment I saw you in NY, from the instant, you stepped back in my life I knew; I knew I never stopped loving you…. & before I even had a chance to take a breath I… I lost you once more & all that pain that I had pushed down for all those years it just came, rushing back & I.. I didnt know if I could go through it again. I love you, I probably always will…. but my secret….. Is that I was hoping that this was a trick…. I was hoping you were dead. Because it would be easier for me to put you behind me, than to face all the pain we went through all over again” (insert SF hug, Hook’s look of hurt & despair, Charming’s look of concern & Snow’s look of painful understanding?- not sure how else to describe it)
Thought’s – have already been said
- Out side Echo Cave again:
- Neal “Thank you” (insert Hook & Emma again standing close together)
- Charming “Well dont thank us yet, we still have to save Henry”
- Hook “We found your star map, so the real question is do you know how to get off this island”
- Neal “We can find Henry, I can get you home”
- (insert Hook’s look of despair/hurt) Hook “Then lets go get Tinker Bell &.. retrieve the boy” (Hook watches Emma as he says the last few words & leaves)
- Snowing & Hook exit scene ….Emma “You alright?”
- Emma “About what I said”
- Neal “Hey, Emma, it’s ok”
- Emma “No it’s not, I wish I could change how I feel, more than anything, but I cant. I’m Sorry”
- Neal “Dont be. After everything I put you though, you dont ever have to apologize to me about how you feel. Hey I’m glad you told me. I have a secret to Emma, I’m never going to stop fighting for you (insert Emma’s look of hurt/no)- ever” (insert Hook’s look of hurt & hopelessness as he listens to them). Thoughts….. I’ve already said them before, same as everyone else has lol.
Sorry if its a little incoherent- it’s 2am (then it posted with weird tags all over t, so I had to edit those out & it’s now 2:30am), but I needed to get this all out so I could sleep lol.
[adrotate group="5"]@rumplegoldfan – totally missed this earlier!
Okay, I feel like a drunken guy from a bad 80′s movie but can I just say how much I love you guys!!! Everyone here has the BEST insights and finds the most amazing “stuff” from all the episodes!
Like can I just say that we are all awesome and CS seers etc. and you know, that we watch the show properly and that we should all raise a literal glass of rum together when Captain Swan are definitively proved to be True Love and all the haters are gobsmacked because we were right all along.
VIVA LA CAPTAIN SWAN
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
So it must have meant something much more to Emma than she has let on & maybe those feelings stirred some hope in her for a new kind of love (hence her reaction to their kiss), which could then be part of the reason for hoping Neal was dead.
HECK yes. Emma is played with a little flicker of hope around Killian. Happy Endings start with hope. Hope has been a running theme for CS, along with choice.
I find it interesting how Emma & Hook seem to position themselves close to each other more often than not- could this be a little TL tell maybe, they have an unconscious pull towards one another.
HECK yes.
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
I was shocked when Hook became the first one to tell his secret. He had nothing to gain by sharing his secret at all, let alone going first. But he knew that in order for Emma to get to Neal—to the man Hook thinks is her happiness—he had to prove that this was how the cave worked, so he did the honorable thing—and he did it for her happiness. Colin O’Donoghue was excellent once again in this episode, especially in the smallest details, such as the way he seemed to steel himself before sharing his secret, knowing he’s about to make himself as vulnerable as he’s been in 300 years for a woman he thinks could never love him back now that Neal is alive.
Episode after episode this season, Hook has completely floored me with his sincerity, but nothing he’s done so far—not his “Perhaps I would;” not even his reaction to Emma’s kiss—prepared me for the intimate honesty of his confession to Emma. He loved Milah for 300 years, and he lost hope of ever escaping the darkness her death draped around his heart. Until he met Emma. Now, he sees Milah as his first love because he knows Emma is his second chance at love—his second chance at a life worthy of love. Emma is his source of hope after three lifetimes spent without it, and for a show that equates true love with hope on almost a weekly basis, that’s a powerful statement to make.
This is Hook’s darkest secret not only because he was scared to move on from Milah but because he never wanted to burden Emma with his feelings while Henry was still her priority. O’Donoghue’s reading of Hook’s “Until I met you” had almost an apologetic tone to it, knowing that what he was saying was going to make Emma’s life more complicated when all he’s wanted to do since he came back to Storybrooke is make her happy. But Morrison’s reaction also spoke volumes; Emma is unsure of how to handle both his sincerity and his selflessness. This is a woman who has said she’s not used to anybody putting her first, and that’s what this moment is all about. You can see the fear but also the smallest flicker of understanding cross her features. And Goodwin showed in such a subtly powerful way that Snow is beginning to realize that maybe all first loves aren’t true loves. Snow is the great champion of hope, and she sees that Emma is Hook’s hope. And maybe what she believed about true love is wrong because she can’t deny that this man loves her daughter the way her husband loves her and the way she loves her husband—with selflessness, with honor, and with hope.
And then there was Emma’s secret. I thought it was going to be that she never stopped loving Neal, but I was so unprepared for the revelation that she wished he was dead so she could finally move on from all of the pain wrapped up in their relationship. Emma and Neal’s relationship has always been fraught with tragically human moments, but this may have been the best of them all. Never has Morrison been better; I grow more in awe of her talent every week. Emma is a woman who is so damaged by her past, so broken by her abandonments and her fears of more of them that she would rather believe the father of her son is dead than have to face the pain he caused her again. That’s not a fairytale story; that’s real, human drama. That’s a woman trying desperately to move on even as she understands a part of her will always love this man. That’s emotional honesty at its most poignant, and that’s Once Upon a Time at its best.
Neal knows that he hurt Emma, and he’s not making excuses for it anymore, which is a huge step in the right direction for this character. However, it’s hard for me not to root for the idea of Emma getting a second chance at love with Hook right now. O’Donoghue broke my heart in those final scenes as Hook watched the woman he loves reunite with the man he thinks she’ll choose over him. I can’t help but root for this pirate to get his chance at a happy ending, and I can’t help but root for Emma to have a chance at her happy ending with someone who loves her so selflessly and sincerely. Emma helped Hook find the hope he needed to move on from the pain of Milah’s death; perhaps he can be the hope she needs to move on from Neal the way she seems to desperately want to. But I also want a happy ending for Neal because we’ve seen just how broken he is, too.
I love these reviews because he or she is very objective about the whole shipping thing.
http://nerdygirlnotes.com/2013/11/04/tv-time-once-upon-a-time-3-06/#more-1208
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
The thing that I keep hearing that’s been bugging me the most is how Emma should be with Neal because it’s the right and honorable thing since they have a child together. On the podcast yesterday the same thing was said plus adding in that if Emma chose Hook it would mean abandoning her family. Hook to me has shown how honorable he truly is, he would not want Emma to abandon her family essentiall making the same mistake twice. That whole warped sense of honor and righteousness by staying with the guy who knocked her up and abandoned her for ten years is complete drivel to me. Hook and Emma want the same thing to let go of the pain of the past and move on to a new future. I don’t see anything that can be called “right” about Emma staying with Nealfire just because of Henry.
The thing that I keep hearing that’s been bugging me the most is how Emma should be with Neal because it’s the right and honorable thing since they have a child together. On the podcast yesterday the same thing was said plus adding in that if Emma chose Hook it would mean abandoning her family. Hook to me has shown how honorable he truly is, he would not want Emma to abandon her family essentiall making the same mistake twice. That whole warped sense of honor and righteousness by staying with the guy who knocked her up and abandoned her for ten years is complete drivel to me. Hook and Emma want the same thing to let go of the pain of the past and move on to a new future. I don’t see anything that can be called “right” about Emma staying with Nealfire just because of Henry.
UGH! YES! Can you tell I agree? lol :p
I HATE, simply HATE people saying “well Neal is Henry’s father, so they should be together” …. what rock do these people live under? I come from a broken family- my own father was killed, my step father betrayed my mother & used us kids to do so- so do these people feel my mother should have stayed married to my father despite his betrayal, because it was the right thing to do?! My mother gave my step father a choice- stay & try to work through what he’d done (which is more than I would have done TBH) or leave & do his thing- he chose to walk out on us all (& drag her through the mud as much as possible), yet we’d be better off with him in our lives, because he made babies with my mother- REALLY?!
Have these people never looked into, or heard the studies on how it usually results in psychological & emotional damage to the children & those in the relationship itself, if they are ‘staying’ together for their children.
Why are broken families painted so poorly to bio families? Sometimes the best Happy Ever Afters, are a direct result of being part of a broken family, because ALL parties are “HAPPY”, not one or both parties destroying a part of themselves to stay hitched to someone whom is toxic for them to be around, or that they have to closed off from to protect themselves emotionally from & even worse the child/children seeing this all happening & then usually feeling all the fighting & pain is there doing.
Sure Neal may not have physically abused Emma, but he sure as oats emotionally & psychologically abused her (whether he meant to or not is irrelevant), to the point that for 11-12 yrs Emma went though intense emotional pain over what happened between them & was fundamentally changed by it, in a VERY profound, negative way- but yeah sure, she should be with Neal, because they have a kid UGH!!!!! Rant over.
Sorry if that was a little strong, but that stance REALLY climbs up my nose & gets my BS meter going right off the charts :/
Stelio Kontos wrote: The thing that I keep hearing that’s been bugging me the most is how Emma should be with Neal because it’s the right and honorable thing since they have a child together. On the podcast yesterday the same thing was said plus adding in that if Emma chose Hook it would mean abandoning her family. Hook to me has shown how honorable he truly is, he would not want Emma to abandon her family essentiall making the same mistake twice. That whole warped sense of honor and righteousness by staying with the guy who knocked her up and abandoned her for ten years is complete drivel to me. Hook and Emma want the same thing to let go of the pain of the past and move on to a new future. I don’t see anything that can be called “right” about Emma staying with Nealfire just because of Henry.
UGH! YES! Can you tell I agree? lol :p I HATE, simply HATE people saying “well Neal is Henry’s father, so they should be together” …. what rock do these people live under? I come from a broken family- my own father was killed, my step father betrayed my mother & used us kids to do so- so do these people feel my mother should have stayed married to my father despite his betrayal, because it was the right thing to do?! My mother gave my step father a choice- stay & try to work through what he’d done (which is more than I would have done TBH) or leave & do his thing- he chose to walk out on us all (& drag her through the mud as much as possible), yet we’d be better off with him in our lives, because he made babies with my mother- REALLY?! Have these people never looked into, or heard the studies on how it usually results in psychological & emotional damage to the children & those in the relationship itself, if they are ‘staying’ together for their children. Why are broken families painted so poorly to bio families? Sometimes the best Happy Ever Afters, are a direct result of being part of a broken family, because ALL parties are “HAPPY”, not one or both parties destroying a part of themselves to stay hitched to someone whom is toxic for them to be around, or that they have to closed off from to protect themselves emotionally from & even worse the child/children seeing this all happening & then usually feeling all the fighting & pain is there doing. Sure Neal may not have physically abused Emma, but he sure as oats emotionally & psychologically abused her (whether he meant to or not is irrelevant), to the point that for 11-12 yrs Emma went though intense emotional pain over what happened between them & was fundamentally changed by it, in a VERY profound, negative way- but yeah sure, she should be with Neal, because they have a kid UGH!!!!! Rant over. Sorry if that was a little strong, but that stance REALLY climbs up my nose & gets my BS meter going right off the charts :/
The thing that I keep hearing that’s been bugging me the most is how Emma should be with Neal because it’s the right and honorable thing since they have a child together. On the podcast yesterday the same thing was said plus adding in that if Emma chose Hook it would mean abandoning her family. Hook to me has shown how honorable he truly is, he would not want Emma to abandon her family essentiall making the same mistake twice. That whole warped sense of honor and righteousness by staying with the guy who knocked her up and abandoned her for ten years is complete drivel to me. Hook and Emma want the same thing to let go of the pain of the past and move on to a new future. I don’t see anything that can be called “right” about Emma staying with Nealfire just because of Henry.
Jumping up on my 41 year old wife and mother soap box in agreement with you!!
Forget being a CS fan, I am completely baffled as to how anyone can think Emma should be with Neal – but I just attribute it to me being too old and matronly I guess.
All I can say is that as a parent, if my teenage daughter was running around with some guy stealing I would be heart broken and I would do everything I could to keep her away from him (totally get that she was stealing before she met him but having some guy influencing her to keep it up would not make me happy). Then add to the mix that this loser gets her pregnant – he better be able to run REALLY fast. Then some random guy tells him it is in my daughter’s best interest for him to leave her and have her arrested. Super. What an upstanding, honorable, and noble young man. Just the kind of guy I am going to be soooo very excited to see show up again in 11 years. And when my daughter who has spent the last 11 years walled up in protection mode because she can’t trust anyone because this outstanding gentleman wounded her so badly, comes to me for advice I will tell her that the honorable and noble thing would be for her to choose this incredible creep – since it would be best for her to be with the guy she has already slept with and so she can keep her “family” intact??? You know, her family – which consists of the baby she gave up for adoption 11 years ago and has no legal rights to???
Ummm, NO!!!! I will be reminding my daughter of the stupid choices she was making when she was with this loser, asking her how loved and cherished she felt while pregnant in prison, asking her why this guy who wants to “fight” for her so hard brought his fiancée with him when they found each other???
Neal didn’t seem at all interested in doing the “honorable” and “noble” thing when he found out about Henry, he didn’t break off his engagement to Tamara. He didn’t seem concerned about choosing Emma over Tamara. And when Emma tried to tell him that something was “off” with Tamara he blew her off – that’s a great way to start their relationship off again.
Now Emma is torn between two men and when it comes to Neal she would prefer he be dead. Yeah, as a mom – Neal is exactly the man I am hoping to call my son-in-law one day.
Pass the rum.
The thing that I keep hearing that’s been bugging me the most is how Emma should be with Neal because it’s the right and honorable thing since they have a child together. On the podcast yesterday the same thing was said plus adding in that if Emma chose Hook it would mean abandoning her family.
Is this the official podcast or the podcast here? Because I can see the host of the official podcast saying that because she is a die-hard ST ‘shipper. Daniel’s even stated on the last one, not to take a stand on which ‘ship to support which I think is a smart idea.
Not everyone who listens to Once Podcast, listens for the ‘shippy stuff. I listen for story and what’s going with the characters. I love the ‘shippy stuff when it happens, but it’s best to stay biased if you’re a podcaster, IMO.
That whole warped sense of honor and righteousness by staying with the guy who knocked her up and abandoned her for ten years is complete drivel to me. I don’t see anything that can be called “right” about Emma staying with Nealfire just because of Henry.
Adam already clarified that having a child doesn’t equal True Love. I really don’t want Emma to be miserable if that’s the reason she chooses to be with Neal. She mine as well put a tracking device or something on him, to make sure he doesn’t leave her again.
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