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surayya – I was looking for that the other day too! I think it was from the Once Magazine that was put out beginning of S2 and the sketch had Emma dressed as a pirate! Love it! Hopefully somebody can find that and link it here soon! I would hazard a guess that is is buried somewhere in these 200+ pages but not sure! I’ll see if I can locate it.
YAY FOR THE PCA NOMINATION! Love how we’re up against established couples but they still made it in! This is only the beginning! (No idea why they didn’t change the picture on it though – I got not using the picture of the kiss during the preliminary stuff since the episode hadn’t aired but why not a side by side shot of them working together at least? Seems weird when all the other couples are more couple-y while Emma has Hook tied up from the beginning of their interactions but I’ll take it!)
Haven’t had a ton of time but wanted to add my 2 cents, starting with pointing something out that I saw on tumblr that finally clicked into place for me with this episode because I couldn’t put my finger on what was really bugging me about it.
BOOKENDING THE EPISODE:
Beginning of the episode – Hook goes out of his way to talk to Snowing about the information from Pan first in case it was a lie. He and Charming were going to go off on their own to rescue Neal if it was true so that he WOULDN’T GIVE EMMA FALSE HOPE. Because let’s face it…thinking the person you love is dead is bad enough, finding out they might be alive and then losing them all over again? Unacceptable, and he didn’t want her to go through that kind of pain again (as perceived by him, not knowing she was hoping he was dead).
Cut to the end of the episode – EVERYONE BELIEVES that Neal can get them off the island because he can read the map. They ASK him about it and he actually says that he CAN DO THAT. Um, forgive me if I’ve forgotten something but didn’t Pan pretty much TELL HIM that he DIDN’T escape? But that Pan let him go when it was the right time according to Pan’s schedule? So based on what NEAL KNOWS at this point, he either is super cocky and thinks he can get them home, or he’s trying to be optimistic and he’ll just figure out a way to do it later on but doesn’t want to admit (especially in front of Emma who he now knows he has a long way to go with) that he can’t do the one thing she really needs him to do. Either way, if he can’t get them off the island (which he should KNOW because that’s what Pan told him and Pan doesn’t seem to lie…) then it was FALSE HOPE for Emma.
So basically we bookended the episode with Hook doing his best to NOT give her false hope and being willing to go off and rescue Neal with Charming’s help to make sure that Pan wasn’t lying (even though he hasn’t been), and we ended it with Neal saying he could definitely get them out of NL which is what everybody is counting on him doing, only he JUST learned not long ago that he DIDN’T escape, Pan LET him go.
*throws something*
If there’s one thing I can’t stand it’s false hope, especially for Emma. She’s been through enough already and was clearly upset at this point in time to begin with but once again it shows the selflessness vs the selfishness.
Hook was absolutely SELFLESS in this episode. We heard his reasoning for telling Charming but not Emma right away and Charming agreed with him. Hook knows what it’s like to lose someone and the idea of how cruel that would be to be told they’re really alive when they’re not.
When they got to the Echo Caves, Hook SELFLESSLY did what he had to do FOR EMMA. He told his deepest secret which is basically that he’s finally MOVED ON and Emma is his hope and his second chance at love, KNOWING that they were rescuing the man who he is repeatedly told is Emma’s love and the father of her son. He’s saying what he has to because the secret has to be true (and it worked so it must have been!) but is basically giving himself an emotional breakdown because he is saying it knowing doing this basically loses his chance at Emma (at least in his mind). It is the embodiment of NOT RUNNING AWAY and letting a fear of rejection overpower trying. He is laying it all on the line knowing there’s a very good chance he’ll get rejected now that Neal is back in the picture, and he does it anyway.
Neal was SELFISH in this episode – Not all the time (he did let her say what she needed to say) but she point blank said it would be EASIER (not impossible, just easier) to move on if she didn’t have to face all that pain all over again. That she couldn’t change how she felt and that she wanted to MOVE ON (funny how both Hook’s and Emma’s secrets were about wanting to move on and find a new love and get over their 1st loves…) and Neal never had to give a secret within the caves at all but when he felt the need to volunteer a secret it was to say he’ll never stop fighting for her.
Firstly – that REALLY rubbed me the wrong way. I’m sorry, that’s a RUMBELLE thing. You do not use the same line for anybody else. I am deeply offended.
Secondly, she just told him how much pain she felt seeing him and how she wants to move on so he made it all about him and how he doesn’t want to let her go. Before this Neal has been “I didn’t get to tell her I love her when I should have” (which makes NO sense since he’s said it back when she’s said it before, or at least he did YEARS ago, not in Manhattan or anything like he should have acknowledged how he felt back then since she was begging him to say that it was real for him too even if it was in the past – sorry Tamara isn’t an excuse for not saying “It was real for me too but things change” or something along those lines when she’s bawling her eyes out thinking he used her and he DID say it back at the portal scene so that is SO NOT HIS CRIME HERE but whatever).
Before this, Neal has been about getting to her and making sure she knows how he feels and that he really wants to fight for a second (*cough*HA! as if it’s only 2nd *cough*) chance, and yet he does nothing to tell her how he feels about her or acknowledges the pain she’s feeling or apologizes for anything but instead just says well I’m not gonna make it easy for you to walk away. The only good thing he did say is that he understands after all the stuff he put her through but instead of apologizing or crying and telling her he knows how much he screwed up and he’s gonna do whatever it takes to FIX it, he just says he’s never gonna stop fighting for her.
Um…I’m sorry but this REALLY bugs me. She just said her deepest darkest secret is that she wishes you were dead so she wouldn’t have to relive all that pain you put her through and she wants to move on with her life and put you behind her (way to go Emma!), and ALL you can say about it is you’re not gonna give her up?
Again, SELFLESS vs SELFISH – Hook is willing to give her up if it’ll make her HAPPY. He is doing absolutely everything with HER in mind and making sure that SHE IS HAPPY even if it HURTS HIM DEEPLY. He’s putting himself on the line with a very real fear of rejection because he LOVES HER and wants her to be HAPPY no matter what it costs him (and he is in some serious pain right now). And then we have Neal who isn’t apologizing, isn’t trying to actually fix stuff, is (probably) the only one who heard Emma’s secret and his answer to that is you’re not gonna walk away from me that easily even after all the crap I put you through that I’m reminding you of RIGHT NOW since I’m RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU.
I’m sorry how is that remotely healthy or happy for Emma? She needs to work through this so her spending some time with Neal and talking through things is a GOOD thing for us. It’ll be PAINFUL because Hook doesn’t know these things. He thinks he’s reunited her with her love but she didn’t tell him everything when they were toasting Neal or finding his cave or giving her his sword. He doesn’t know that he has a chance here. And he is STILL willing to help her get to him because he believes that is what will make her happy and he lets her take the lead so he knows she will be.
She was happy and “feeling good” when she kissed Hook. We haven’t seen her smile since she found out about Neal. She’s probably going to be miserable again for awhile because this is not something she needed right now while trying to find Henry. It’s only been a week since Neal “died” and it was probably the beginning of closure for her because she wasn’t going to have to deal with it anymore. As she said herself, she lost him a long time ago. It took Hook 300 years with Milah dead to be able to move forward, and Emma was already moving in that direction before Neal showed up again.
They have a lot of things to deal with and hopefully it’ll give Emma more answers but I really resented his line (and not just because it’s a RumBelle thing – stop quoting your future step-mother!). Hook has always left it up to EMMA and Neal is basically saying “I’m never gonna leave you alone or let you choose.” Which…is basically his standard operating procedure.
How people still think that Hook doesn’t respect women I don’t know. He may flirt and try to charm his way into situations but remember, when we first met him Snow and Emma were rolling their eyes at all that and Emma sees through all of that now: she sees Killian, just like she did when she saw his tattoo on the beanstalk. He let Milah take charge with the whole Rumple situation. He lets Emma choose to make the first move on stuff. He can suggest WHATEVER HE WANTS (and frankly it’s refreshing that he can actually admit what he wants rather than hide out cause not even trying automatically equals failure) but he still waited for her to kiss him, not the other way around. The only time he’s been remotely pushy with her about anything is when he insisted on bandaging her hand. OH THE HORROR! How dare he try to take care of her.
Everyone on the show has made massive mistakes at some point. They all have some apologies to make and I fully expect Hook to do that once they get back to town and people are (hopefully) more accepting of him (especially with Emma backing him up bigtime after everything he’s done for her) but it’s a step in the right direction.
During Hook’s secret, David flipped out in protective dad mode for a second, but then he nodded once the cave accepted the secret and he saw earlier that day/the day before that Hook really is doing everything for Emma and I think he’s more likely to accept that for now.
Snow (who was WAY more observant about Emma when she wasn’t trying to think as a mom cause let’s face it, MM rocked at that), actually looked guilty when Hook was revealing his secret. Like she hadn’t even thought that maybe he did actually have the capacity to care about anyone. She hasn’t seen all the goodness in him that Emma and now Charming have. She JUST heard from Emma a little bit before this about the kiss and she spent so much time writing it off and trying to tell Emma to have hope about Neal that it didn’t even occur to her that Hook might be a good match for her.
In S1 when Emma would say “it’s nothing” MM would tell her “If it’s nothing then we wouldn’t be talking about it” – Emma didn’t have to tell Snow about the kiss AT ALL. She could have let that be revealed by Hook in the cave. If it was truly nothing to her (and not just her walls going skyhigh especially with the reveal that Neal was alive), she wouldn’t have mentioned it. Snow projects herself and her perfect first love/TL life onto Emma because as she has said before, she doesn’t know how to comfort/relate to her own daughter. MM was GREAT at it and great at reading Emma and Snow just hasn’t learned yet because she’s thinking of her as her daughter and not her friend so she has blinded herself in many respects where she used to be quite observant. Emma doesn’t go around talking about kisses for no reason especially if they didn’t mean anything. Notice it was SNOW who said Neal would understand, not Emma. Emma never even said that’s why she was worried about the kiss, that was SNOW’s interpretation. When Snow told Emma to have hope about Neal being alive Emma gave an exasperated “Why?”
This came across to me as “Why are you pushing this mom I’m not interested and once again you have no clue about my life because you’ve conveniently forgotten ALL THE TIMES I’ve said how awful he is and how I don’t want him near Henry and oh yeah, do you remember how AFTER THE CURSE BROKE I called you from Manhattan and said I didn’t want him to know about Henry because he’s no good?”
I swear, with as much of a hard time as Snow has given Hook about everything (Charming too but he’s warming up a bit, it’ll just take time) they better 1) Learn the history between Emma and Neal and 2) there better be at LEAST a couple of Charming punches cause I don’t know how anybody in their position would ever say “Please choose the guy that broke your heart, sent you to jail for his crimes where you would have his baby while shackled to the bed, made you think for 11 years that you were unlovable clearly causing all of these emotional issues and making you have walls so high you never let anyone in and then NOT coming back for you to explain when he could have and MOVING ON with someone else” (which is basically impossible for TL couples – look at Snow who had to take a memory potion because she couldn’t bare to live without Charming while she KNEW he was alive in the world somewhere), over a guy who they have SEEN do absolutely anything for her no matter how much it costs him or pains him emotionally.
I don’t have any kids but I can’t imagine actually PUSHING Emma toward Neal with what Snow/MM DOES know about their past AT ALL (even if Hook weren’t in the picture). Snow is clearly back into her fairy tale mode of first love = true love and wouldn’t it be great if Henry got his family back together and this guy doesn’t seem that bad, it was all a misunderstanding but you can overcome it!
*headdesk*
Snow clearly can’t read Emma right now (especially since we’ve been shown that a number of times this season) and I don’t see why she would push Emma to anybody. Emma isn’t behaving the same way with Neal that she behaved with Graham where MM called her out on it. If anything, she’s behaving that way with Hook.
Emma has said repeatedly over time that she doesn’t want Neal back in her life or in Henry’s but he ended up there so now she has to deal with him but it doesn’t mean that she HAS to go back to him. I would TOTALLY understand HENRY pushing it. But Snow? Charming? Snow knows enough to be wary and not push Emma into it. Charming I could see cause David didn’t really know much but seriously? She’s a grown woman, let her make her own choices. She didn’t live the same life you did.
I really hope that during Hook’s secret, Snow was taking that into consideration cause they made a point of showing her looking confused/conflicted when he talked about moving on from his first love and finding hope in Emma (especially after everything Snow said in the flashbacks of this episode). It’s just disappointing to see her put Neal on a pedestal and condemn Hook when she should know that Emma has serious issues with the guy.
Side note: I WANNA KNOW WHAT EMMA WAS ABOUT TO SAY! Hook looked so hurt after he finished his little speech and Emma IMMEDIATELY went toward him and looked like she was about to say something and was REACHING for him when Snow interrupted by jumping in with her secret and then the moment was lost (kinda like with Ariel trying to get to Eric and then not being able to say anything). Emma definitely reached for him though, considering the fact that a few seconds before that she was all “it was just a kiss” and then he gave this big declaration which we know she doesn’t take very well but she REACHED FOR HIM which is big cause Emma doesn’t do that kind of stuff.
In fact, when Neal first called her name she physically recoiled and got farther away. When she felt BAD about what she had to say to him in the caves to free him, she went and talked to him but she didn’t reach for him in that moment. He hugged her when he got out and she hugged back but she didn’t make that first move (Hook always lets her so she’s not ambushed!).
THE HUG:
Um, major major flashbacks with the blocking to David/Kathryn with MM watching. Absolutely. I hope we get some major Daddy!Charming/Emma moments coming up because if anybody can understand what she’s going through it’ll be him. (Plus we just need those moments).
CAMERA ANGLES:
This whole episode showed us Hook’s reaction to basically everything. Gearing up to reveal the secret, watching Emma hug Neal (again, VERY similar to the Kathryn/David hug with MM watching), him listening when Neal said he was gonna fight for Emma etc etc.
Except when they were shouting hello, I don’t think the secrets carried back and forth across the cave. So we don’t know for sure what Neal knows and I’m pretty sure that Hook DIDN’T hear Emma’s secret or he wouldn’t be as worried/sad right now. So going off of what he knows, he is.
EVERY Emma/Neal scene, the focus went to HOOK’S face. If it’s some big epic love thing you focus on them in their moment, but they kept showing us Hook and how deeply wounded he was (even though he was willing to do whatever he had to so that Emma would be happy, no matter what it cost him). In showing us his face, it didn’t feel like some big sweeping epic love reunion to me. If you want the audience to love what you’re showing them and root for it, you don’t switch the camera to the person who is so desperately heartbroken from it because all that does is make the audience feel for THEM instead. If I was supposed to like the SF moments, any chance at liking the interaction is killed immediately by the intense pain felt by Hook (or rather at this point, Killian). THAT was the focus they were using in this episode. How deeply hurt he was but STILL doing what he had to FOR HER, no matter the cost.
Sadly he didn’t hear her say she wished Neal was dead and that she wanted to put him behind her. He doesn’t know any of that. He doesn’t know that’s why she’s been conflicted and quiet this week, toasting to Neal, finding out all the things she never knew about him. It was HURTING HER but not in the way anybody thought. It was hurting her being reminded of him because she wanted to MOVE ON, not get him back, and that’s throwing people now because they haven’t heard her admit that.
NEXT WEEK:
Things are about to get very interesting! Looks like Emma will be going off on a mission with just Hook and Neal. AHH! WHY would they do that to her? Regina must still be off with Rumple, and Snowing need to sort out their own issues but poor Emma is going to have to deal with the guy who won’t let her move on easily and the guy she just kissed and who just basically admitted he loves her but she doesn’t want to hurt anybody, she clearly hasn’t had time to sort out any of her feelings for Hook since the kiss, much less since learning that Neal is alive and her secret revealed to him, and oh yeah: HER SON IS STILL CAPTURED. It’s going to be another emotional week for Emma for sure (and for us of course because goodness knows what interactions we’ll get), but I don’t expect her to do anything other than focus on Henry 99% of the time because she just can’t deal with it right now. Pretty sure that the triangle will be in full swing but somewhat backburnered as much as possible for Emma but her emotions will still be out there and it will have major conflictions for Hook as well because he thinks he’s seeing one thing and it’s another.
What Hook Thinks vs Knows:
It’s very reminiscent of Han & Leia in Return of the Jedi. Han THINKS that she’s secretly in love with Luke and he gets it and he likes Luke too so he doesn’t want to hurt anyone and he ABOVE ALL wants LEIA to be happy, and then learns that Luke is her brother and that she’s in love with Han. Obviously the situation isn’t entirely the same since Neal and Emma aren’t related, but I think it could be the same PERCEIVED kind of issue for Hook. He cares about both of them, he wants Emma to be happy and as much as he fights for what he wants, he’ll still be hesitant to go all out like he would against anybody else because he cares about Neal too.
Cracktheory Confession:
With how well Neal took everything but didn’t quite go into the defeatist attitude I had anticipated, as well as him using the RumBelle line (GRR, don’t even!), and the fact that we learned in this episode that the Shadow can pretend to be someone else I almost wondered if possibly they hadn’t actually rescued the real Neal. We saw Pan tell them to move him and then we saw him in the cage. NOTE: I’m inclined to believe it is the real him, but since the Belle quote was bugging me so much and I found it odd he used it, I did briefly wonder if perhaps it were Pan’s shadow infiltrating the group to get even more info (like he doesn’t have enough already) and that the shadow was used to pretending to be Belle. It would also explain why Neal said he COULD get them out of NL even though he was JUST TOLD that Pan let him go, not that he escaped but I doubt it, hence the cracktheory.
I feel like the shadow thing is almost like S2’s “everybody is Cora” thing but I felt like something was off. Either that or Neal is just trying my patience even in an episode where we didn’t see him all that much and he didn’t have a lot of opportunities to say anything that bugged me (their interactions were mostly non-annoying and other than giving her false hope and blatantly ignoring her wishes, there wasn’t any mocking or pretending he wasn’t at fault for everything – though they still have a long way to go).
HYPE:
If it were some big romantic reunion wouldn’t it have been hyped up a bit more? They hyped the heck out of the CS kiss and here we had an episode that was all about rescuing Neal, the supposed love of the main character a week after the big hype with CS and there was nada. He was barely even in the episode and when he was she said she wished he were dead and he was being selfish vs Hook baring his soul, TAKING A LEAP OF FAITH even in face of (in his mind) almost certain rejection. I mean..how was this supposed to be a bad CS episode?
If they wanted it to be about Emma reuniting with her love they wouldn’t have done it this way. This was a very David/Kathryn end of the episode oh ___’s taken moment by throwing the “person they’re supposed to be with according to other people but not their choice” into the mix. Remember David telling MM that whoever chose Kathryn it wasn’t him? (Before cursed memories got in the way of course, but even then he couldn’t choose Kathryn and just ignore MM – he screwed up royally and lost her eventually but he couldn’t stay away from his CHOICE even though he was straddling the fence and trying to do what everybody else wanted him to do WHICH IS THE EXACT WRONG THING TO DO IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS. Seriously, if you’re listening to what everybody else wants instead of you want, you’re going to be miserable and it’s not exactly a good message for a tv show either. Go back to the guy who ruined your life instead of the one who has been proving to you every step of the way that you deserve to be loved and treated with respect and you’re amazing but no, go back to the one who broke your heart, sent you to jail, and was going to marry someone else even once you were back in life because he was too afraid to take a chance.
How many times have we heard this season about taking a leap of faith? And love is a risk that is worth taking? Who is actually taking the risks? That would be Hook (or more aptly, Killian Jones). He’s putting his heart on the line and making sure over and over that Emma knows he has her back and that he cares for her (first the fancying thing and now basically saying he’s in love with her or at least falling in love with her which is huge because she knows how much Milah means to him even if nobody else has a clue about his past). He’s taking the risk that Neal refused to take until suddenly someone else is in the picture. Funny how he didn’t have a problem with it seeing that Emma was single and he seemed to think it was cute that she was acting all jealous but he was still going to marry Tamara until she shot him. Can’t wait to see what happens once he realizes that Hook is genuinely interested in Emma but if that’s what it takes to get him fighting for what he wants, that’s too little too late for me.
Emma deserves better than to be a rebound or a 2nd choice and no matter how much WE know about Neal’s feelings etc, all SHE knows is that he was with Tamara in front of her, repeatedly chose her, and CONVENIENTLY is willing to fight for her once 1) he is basically forced back into her life – NOT that he came looking for her when he should have 2) Tamara is out of the picture (which he still needs to learn about her death – hoping Tink shows up and he recognizes the watch and finally addresses all of that but goodness knows what tale he’ll spin out of it – I was happy he was finally admitting to things with Mulan but he left out a LOT of stuff and he better darn well own up to it with Emma because I can only take so much of this POOR NEAL junk coming from him when it’s HIS CHOICES that got him here. Feel sorry for yourself but understand when she doesn’t want you around and LET HER GO if you really want her to be happy when she’s telling you that being around you is miserable for you.
The message is one of the things that bugs me the most about putting Emma back with Neal. If he had come to SB the moment he got the postcard and hadn’t been able to care about anyone else and was waiting around to get the postcard so he could get back to her no matter how long it took for that postcard to arrive, THEN I would say it was like Snowing and that it at least had a chance to be beautiful. There wouldn’t have been a triangle at all if that had been the case because he would have been there the moment she showed up from FTL. The jail thing would still SUCK majorly but and have caused a lot of pain but it might not have been insurmountable but he didn’t.
This season started off with us seeing that his fear of rejection was too much for him to go after what he wanted and he is only NOW coming around to that after he has put her through so much pain and torment that didn’t begin and end with sending her to jail. He wasn’t even going to come back with them to SB after learning about Henry! He only came because he didn’t want to watch his father die and THEN he stayed for Henry. Even then it wasn’t about Emma, as he was prepared to marry Tamara IN FRONT OF HER, knowing that she and Henry would be in his life. At this point I can’t even fathom them being able to turn that into a beautiful love story and putting it up next to Snowing.
THE TRIANGLE is more about past vs future than it is about the two guys. Otherwise there’s not much point to it, especially in a season where they’re confronting their pasts and moving forward. Every other triangle we’ve seen has been obvious from the start because we knew who was TL and we just felt sorry for the 3rd wheel. Tallahassee set up the triangle but it wasn’t Hook vs Neal, it was Emma dealing with her past and whether she’d let it continue to destroy her future. She is the product of true love and is hard-wired to want that but has kept her walls up for over a decade because of Neal’s choices for her. Hook represents moving past that and now we’re seeing that he has and the talk of moving past a first love in his secret, and following that up (bookending it actually since Hook went 1st and Emma last) with wanting to ALSO put her first love behind her is HUGE, especially in NL).
Hook has had 300 years to deal with Milah’s death and it wasn’t until he met Emma that he realized he could put it behind him and move on. Funny how Emma’s mindset is going in that direction now too…(plus it harkened back to Snow telling Charming that she didn’t really have a home until she met him and that was this season!)
Emma hasn’t had very long since she thought Neal “died” but she has had 11 years of pain and misery and seeing him again and having it brought back showed her what she didn’t want anymore. She flat out told him that what she wants is to put him behind her. She opened up to Hook and moved in that direction (and actually said she was “FEELING GOOD” when she kissed him) within days of thinking Neal died. That is not grieving for her. That’s realizing that living in the past with all that pain and anguish is doing NOTHING good for her and it’s time to move forward. Hmm, that sounds a bit like Hook’s recent revelations with his quest for revenge and living in the past and *gasp* moving on is the HEALTHIER and BETTER option.
We’ve been shown again and again this season that while *some* first loves ARE true loves, that is not always the case and does not always mean that you can’t have a second love. This goes back to my “Snow is projecting onto Emma” rant because she’s clearly forgotten everything she’s ever known about how to read Emma. Pretty sure when she told Emma to have hope she had NO CLUE that Emma didn’t want to find Neal alive.
So Emma has taken some major strides forward this season in trusting Hook (it’s been less than a week for them in NL and she goes to him for EVERYTHING, even after his declaration about fancying her and then again this week when he basically said he loved her and that she was his hope for finding love again she immediately reached for him and stayed by his side during her mother’s emotional secret. She stopped to look back at him to gather her STRENGTH every time, sometimes not believing her parents or wanting a 2nd opinion on something and it’s always HIM she relies on. She even looked back at him before being able to force herself to cross the bridge, knowing that she didn’t WANT to find him and needing the courage to go over there because of how PAINFUL it would be for her).
I hope that she doesn’t take too many steps back with everything that’s been revealed to her lately but she is 1) appreciating Hook and he is proving things to her time and time again (*cough* actions speak louder than words *cough*) and 2) she knows that BOTH guys have feelings for her and at least one of them is saying “it’s up to you” because Hook has ALWAYS let her decide. Both guys can talk until they’re blue in the face but as of right now, only one is saying “I want you to be happy no matter how much it hurts me” and I think we ALL know which one that is.
I trust A&E and truly believe that however the story goes, I’ll find a way to fall in love with it. There have been very few things that I’ve genuinely had a problem with in the overall story and we only get bits and pieces along the way. Things fall into place better as we get more information and can stop putting our OWN projections into what is being seen (we all have different filters and different ideas of what goes on in the moments we haven’t been shown yet – which is how we all see hope for our ships even when they conflict, and out of the same exact moments).
Personally I am very very big on it being Emma’s CHOICE, no matter who she chooses. Right now I have faith that while she needs to work on closing up the past, she will ultimately choose Hook. After all, NL is where you confront your past and grow from it and move forward. Neal is her past (and she has been trying and failing to make that clear but we’ve seen that since Tallahassee) and Hook represents her future, her second chance at love, and he seems to be one of the only characters actually respecting it as her choice. We expect him to fight for what he wants but I think his fighting for it is very subtle: he’s letting his actions speak for him. Yes he’s made his feelings known multiple times now, but he’s still letting it be HER choice, whereas a lot of the other characters have clear opinions on who they want her to end up with. I’ll take a man who respects that it’s my decision any day of the week.
It’s easy to be blinded by a reunion of any kind and think it’s automatically wonderful because they’re together again which is a start for hashing out issues and moving forward but I didn’t get a romantic vibe off of anything last night except for Killian’s heart-wrenching speech. Sorry but finding out the person you love is alive & your reaction being:
- To recoil in fear when he calls your name
- Tell him you were hoping he was dead so it would be easier (not impossible, but easier) to put him behind you
- That you can’t change how you feel and even though you don’t want to hurt him you don’t want him back
- Him (after hearing you say all of this) that he’ll “never stop fighting for you. never.”
I’m sorry but I just can’t see that as romantic. It’s romantic when BELLE says it to Rumple because she’s fighting for the goodness in him and they genuinely share TL and she knows he loves her and wants to be with her and she’s fighting to save him from himself.
It is NOT romantic for Emma and Neal when it’s literally preceded by “I’m sorry I wished you were dead but that’s how I feel. I don’t want to go back. I want to put you behind me and move on with my life and that would easier if you were just gone.” All it comes across as is “I heard what you said and I’m never going to stop fighting for you because it’s what I want and I’m not even going to stand here and apologize or grovel because yes I put you through a lot but let’s just forget all of that.”
The extra “NEVER” on the end of that statement about fighting for her? Kinda creepy to me. What if she doesn’t choose him. What if she GENUINELY MEANT WHAT SHE SAID and wants to move on with her life and falls in love with someone else? Is he EVER going to leave her alone if he’s not her choice? Is he going to let her go if it means she’d be happier elsewhere?
This is the man who said in Tallahassee to August “If I knew she was ok, I could move on.” and then eventually did just that. He genuinely loved and wanted to MARRY TAMARA even when Emma was right in front of him and he was gleeful that she was acting jealous. The HONORABLE thing to do would have been to call off the wedding like Charming did with Abigail and then pursue Emma with an abundance of “I’m sorry. I screwed up. I thought you’d never forgive me.” etc etc and show um, genuine emotion? We’ve seen him break down before. We’ve seen him upset and hurt and humble about it (even when he’s glossing over the details) but that whole scene he just….it was like he let her talk because she needed to and then said what HE was going to do for HIM and it sounded more like Henry and young Bae. A child’s way of viewing things and not being willing to give up his favorite toy or something.
She does not belong to ANYONE but herself. That line really really bugged me because it IS a romantic line when Belle says it to Rumple. It really is. But 1) it is THEIR line, not Neal’s and 2) Saying something like that after hearing how much she doesn’t want you back? NOT COOL and slightly creepy.
I really really want it to be EMMA’s CHOICE and for EVERYONE to respect that and as “understanding” as he seemed at times last night in letting her say what she had to and her trying to apologize for hurting him but having to say it, the fact that his response was basically “never going to leave you alone until you choose me” after he JUST started fighting for her is mind-boggling.
Snowing’s “I will always find you” is cute because they are EQUALS (love that Josh Dallas said that’s what he loves most about Snowing is that they’re equals!). They BOTH want it that way. It’s one of the things that I love about CaptainSwan – they rely on each other and they treat each other as equals. Hook isn’t making life-altering choices for Emma.
RumBelle’s “I’ll never stop fighting for you” again is romantic because it’s something that deep down they BOTH want. Rumple would do anything for Belle (he even tapped back into his darker side so that Lacey wouldn’t abandon him because he thought that was the closest to having his Belle back that he could get) and Belle always stands up for him no matter what awful things he’s done so that she can bring him back from the edge. But it is MUTUAL.
Something to keep in mind that Emma said back in S1 about hope and why Hook’s actions in this episode better have earned him some respect because it was exactly the right move to make to tell Charming and offer to go find and rescue him themselves on the off chance that Pan was lying because it would be too painful for Emma (or so he thought) to get her hopes up about him being alive if he wasn’t:
Emma herself said in S1:
Not having a happy ending is painful enough, but…giving someone unrealistic hope is far worse.
It also applies to how Emma reacts to Hook and Neal as well. She shut down Neal not once but twice in this episode. She’s not remotely acting like it’s even a possibility of them getting back together. Whereas with Hook, he’s said he fancies her, he’s made it quite clear, she still kissed him. Now he’s basically said he’s in love with her, and she immediately reached for him before being interrupted by Snow’s secret (which had to be painful for Emma to hear because all she heard was how she wasn’t enough probably which is basically how she’s always felt which is part of the reason she sticks closer to Hook than anybody out there because she can’t relate to Snowing the way they want her to and clearly given Snow’s confession, that’s true to a point even though it’s completely understandable for Snow to feel that way).
So I don’t see Emma wanting to give ANYBODY false hope but she stays close to Hook and watches him (she did this even after the kiss!). When she was mad at Graham even she shut him down until he came around and actually made a choice to pick her. Hook HAS picked her. He gave up his revenge and basically everything to do whatever he could for her. Neal didn’t PICK Emma until after Tamara was conveniently no longer an option.
So watching Emma with Hook, letting him in, FLIRTING with him from time to time even knowing he fancied her, KISSING HIM etc – those are not the actions of Emma Swan when she wants to shut something down, but we saw her shut Neal down twice last night. To not give him any hope AT ALL because she doesn’t want him back and I don’t think you can make that any clearer than saying she hoped he was dead and that she can’t change how she feels about it.
It will be very interesting indeed to see how things go down when Emma is on a mission next week with just Neal and Hook. I could see her continuing to stick closely with Hook because that’s where she feels safest but at the same time she hasn’t had time to deal with her feelings about their kiss or his revelation and I don’t see Neal giving these two anytime alone to discuss anything, especially since I’m sure he’d rather Hook was off with Snowing so that he could have some time with Emma. I really hope that Emma insists that Hook go with them instead or something like that. Also I don’t think Emma will want to give Hook any false hope either and now that he’s basically said he’s in love with her, if she still stays close to him then that’s pretty telling.
Remember: when Neal got out of the cage he hugged her and she reluctantly hugged back but she did care about him at one point so it makes sense (and again, it was a very David/Kathryn with MM watching kind of moment), but when she apologized for what she said and not being able to change how she felt, she stood there to talk to him but she didn’t REACH for him and want to go comfort him in any way. She just wanted to get it off her chest that she knows what she said hurt him but she can’t do anything about that.
Yet when we saw Hook reveal his secret, she immediately went to reach for him and say something but never got the chance (bad timing Snow, seriously bad timing! Especially since she just listened to how Hook thought Emma was his second chance so Snow had to admit to her wanting a 2nd chance before she lost her nerve even though that 2nd chance probably made Emma feel pretty worthless and Hook was watching Emma the entire time to make sure she was ok). Hopefully we get back to what Emma wanted to say to Hook very soon! I doubt she’ll be having much one-on-one time with anyone, or if she does it’ll probably be with Neal and then Hook will think that’s lost all hope again which is exactly what Pan wants but I think Pan thinks that Hook will go back to work for him or get out of NL, whichever works best so that Hook isn’t a threat to him anymore, and Hook will just continue to do what we’ve said all along, and do whatever is best for EMMA no matter how much it hurts him, which means he’s exactly where he should be and most definitely IS a threat to Pan, especially if he feels like he has nothing left to lose but wants Emma to be happy).
The way they framed everything showing Hook’s pain in all of this shows me more than ever that Neal is the OBSTACLE for CaptainSwan and not the other way around. Otherwise they would have had the caves echo so that everyone would hear everyone’s secrets, and we would have been shown Neal’s reaction to what Hook said to Emma. We saw Charming nod in understanding (after his initial freakout), Snow looked conflicted for about 2 seconds but they made a point, once again, of showing her facial expression in a Hook/Emma moment, just like they do with Charming, and we saw Emma reach for Hook. It was a moment ABOUT Emma and Hook. Then later on we see a supposed Neal/Emma moment (not once, but twice) and BOTH times they show us Hook.
Fun side facts: Han and Leia meet in “A New Hope” and Neverland is the place where “new dreams” are born which is totally Flynn and Rapunzel (which is what we’ve been saying all along) so that covers Han/Leia and Flynn/Rapunzel which leaves the Westley/Buttercup stuff which is *drumroll* Buttercup may have agreed (reluctantly and by force) to marry Humperdink but according to her, “I died that day” when she found out her love was dead. She didn’t “move on,” she lost all hope and feeling. Which is exactly the opposite of how Emma felt when she thought that Neal was dead, and she was finally letting herself move forward and put the past behind her (which is also a NL thing!).
On the bright side, regardless of what’s happening right now, Emma knows that she’s loved. The secret wouldn’t have worked if it wasn’t true so she knows how Hook feels about her which is a huge step forward for CaptainSwan! Now Emma just has to deal with HER past like Hook has and put the past behind her for good. Her secret wouldn’t have worked either if it weren’t true so that’s genuinely how she feels and that’s a good sign. It’s totally in character for her to still care about him and the fact that she probably always will which is what we’ve been saying. But loving someone and being in love with them are two different things and what she genuinely wants is for him to be past tense. Now she has the opportunity to get more closure and wrap that up a LOT faster than Hook did for his past, but all in all it’s a very good sign and totally in character for the Emma.
Chomping at the bit for the rest of the season. Looking forward to proving that Hook has been the right choice for her all along because we’ve said for awhile how OOC it would be for her to go back to Neal at this point. If they want us to buy that then they’ve been doing such a good job at hiding obstacles it’s ridiculous. Especially when they’re voted worst couple and CaptainSwan has been nominated for best on-screen chemistry!
I have a lot of friends on the other side and I do feel for them. Both sides have been given so much reason to hope I can’t stand it and I wish the triangle were decided 100% already without BOTH sides declaring endgame after every single episode including this one (even though Emma said she wanted him DEAD which isn’t…romantic), but as much as I love Bae, I just don’t see how Neal is remotely right for Emma and I don’t think as many would love him if he weren’t also the Bae that we know and love. The fact that they almost changed who Henry’s dad was when people guessed (but decided to stick with their vision of the story which makes me happy that they don’t pander to the audience), and the fact that they always intended to have this triangle from the beginning makes me feel pretty good about it being a fight for Emma’s past vs her future and that the only reason there IS a triangle is because she obviously has to have some feelings for her past, but that she’s moving toward the man who is who she’s meant to be with. (And there was Tink’s thing about not being with the person you’re supposed to be with ruins both lives and Emma and Killian’s lives have both sucked up until now – we haven’t seen Emma truly smile now that Neal’s back but with Hook she was “feeling good” and flirting and smiling).
True love isn’t easy. At all. There have to be obstacles – things will always get in the way. But it has to be a mutual fight. It’s like with TL’s kiss: one can love the other so much but if it’s not mutual, it doesn’t work. Emma and Killian have both been broken, badly, and it takes a lot for them to come around again. But the Emma we met in S1 was very adamant that actions speak louder than words, making a CHOICE means something, and that going back to someone you didn’t really want to be with was the “safe” and “easy” choice (when talking about Graham and Regina) but not the RIGHT choice.
*cookies and rum for all the intense Killian feels we’re sure to feel for quite some time* But have hope! The behind the scenes pictures of 3×10 I think it is show Hook right by Emma’s side which means there’s ALWAYS hope! This season has built up so much hope for Hook that I have to believe it’s for something beautiful. There’s no point in doing all of that to him just to kick him to the curb, especially with all of the not-so-subtle CS/Snowing parallels within the episodes!
The realizing you want to move on and love again friendly convo would have sufficed (a la Hook and Regina on the ship) but that wasn’t dangling a perfect love interest in front of them and then snatching them away. That conversation would have been enough to show that Hook was realizing his revenge didn’t grant him happiness and he hopes to find love again and have a future that doesn’t consist of revenge. There was absolutely NO NEED to build up this thing with Emma if they weren’t going to do something with it so I have faith! It took Hook 300 years to move on from Milah. I can’t see them taking Emma away from him permanently either and having her choose Neal after everything he’s put her through.
I’ve seen so many say that Hook losing the girl to Neal would be “character growth” for him, for handing her over and not “keeping” her like he did with Milah and I just want to throw something. I seriously feel ill about all of that. Milah chose to run away with Hook. He didn’t force her to. He doesn’t owe anybody anything other than an apology. It is NOT up to him whether Emma wants to be with him or not. Losing the girl who makes him feel again isn’t character growth. It’s just adding more pain to an already painful past which would be true for EITHER guy.
You can’t choose who you fall in love with. Whether it makes the family tree more awkward or not, you can’t help how you feel about someone. Is it unfortunate that the woman Hook loved 300 YEARS AGO is also the mother of his rival for Emma’s heart? Yes. That doesn’t mean that by losing her he will grow in character. His character growth has already started and he is in pain right now BECAUSE he doing the right thing and doing whatever it takes to make Emma happy, including watching her potentially choose someone else no matter how much it hurts him. He is being SELFLESS and his character continues to grow this season and I have no doubt it will continue into the future regardless of who Emma picks. But him “losing the girl” isn’t justice for past wrongs or nobody would find love on this show. Ever. Period. If he does end up with Emma he will be extremely grateful and humble and recognize how unbelievably blessed he is that she chose him. But I don’t think knowing that it took 300 years for him to let himself love again, that they’re going to rip away his new love too and leave him alone – nor do I think he’s going to just turn around and be able to love again if he loses her. I also don’t see any reason for him TO lose her based on what we as an audience know about all three characters.
At the end of the day, it’s EMMA’s choice based on what she knows and what she feels and that’s all that matters. Somebody will get hurt. A whole section of the fandom will be devastated for their pairing and their guy. It’s inevitable. But it doesn’t matter what we know about EITHER guy or how much we feel for them (especially if they don’t make it known to her or wait until it’s too late – and how many times has the “it’s too late” thing played out pointing to Neal already this season?) It matters what EMMA feels. And based on what we know, I firmly believe as much as I always have that she loves Neal, a part of her will always love Neal, but she’ll fall IN love with Killian.
CS is a long slow burn and we’ve been at this for over a year but it’s gathering speed and people are starting to notice! I almost feel like they need a cheesey love montage to prove it to some people, but based on what many of us have said about Emma’s character, I just can’t see her NOT reacting to Killian in a positive way and choosing him. It would be completely out of character to revert back to her 17 year old self and eliminate who she is now when that’s actually appreciated by someone who is done living in the past and is right in front of her. Especially since she just admitted that she wants to put the past behind her and that would be easier to do with Neal dead. (Sorry but big epic reunion of TL shouldn’t be “I wish you were dead” – not exactly something to root for when we’ve seen everybody else FALL APART when their TL is perceived to be dead). One of these things is not like the other….
VIVA LA CAPTAIN SWAN!
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
surayya – I was looking for that the other day too! I think it was from the Once Magazine that was put out beginning of S2 and the sketch had Emma dressed as a pirate! Love it! Hopefully somebody can find that and link it here soon! I would hazard a guess that is is buried somewhere in these 200+ pages but not sure! I’ll see if I can locate it.
I think it’s the last scan on the page, the one with Emma’s red jacket. The sketch at the top looks like a pirate costume.
THREE CHEERS FOR OBISGIRL! 😀
That’s the one! I know I’ve seen a more close-up version of it that somebody scanned in ages ago but I can’t seem to find it. Either way that’s definitely the sketch! It was a S1 sketch I think of her wearing a coat verrrry similar to Hook’s (who they said was the only character that they wanted for S1 but couldn’t get the rights to!)
Here’s hoping we eventually get to see her wearing it, even if it’s just because Hook’s being a gentleman and she’s cold. I also wouldn’t mind seeing her at the helm of the ship and him calling her Captain Swan (even just teasingly) but that’s what fanfic is for!
It’s interesting that they included that sketch in the OUAT Magazine though! I wish I could see the page / sketch better. I can’t remember what it said! It’s the top left corner where they’re talking about different jackets they tested and there was mention of a long black one but that sketch reminds me of what they eventually did with Hook’s jacket. How interesting that they almost made her more…pirate-esque. (Can’t believe I forgot about this! It was first half of S2 I think and something that we held onto since it leaned more toward CS and I haven’t thought about it in awhile!).
Thanks for finding that!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
THREE CHEERS FOR OBISGIRL!
That’s the one! I know I’ve seen a more close-up version of it that somebody scanned in ages ago but I can’t seem to find it. Yay! Once I saw it was from the official magazine, I thought I’d try and tumblr in case someone scanned it. That’s from the first issue by the way and the section is called:
Dressing the Part
Costume designer Eduardo Castro takes us through some of his stunning creations for Once Upon a Time.I hate to say this, but it looks like the
here: Might be Hook.
Reasons (3)
1. http://lostismyconstant.tumblr.com/post/66024131249/i-want-your-job-assuming-your-in-the-film-world
3. http://vancityfilming.com/upon-time-popular-character-will-die/
My tumblr page is http://cs-in-tn.tumblr.com/
No. Hook’s safe. Adam and Eddie have wanted to include him since the beginning. It would not make any sense to kill him off especially after we’ve really gotten to know him this season.
I think the character who will die, is either Geppetto or Ruby.
Wow Kat great novel really agree with your points 🙂 I got annoyed in the chat early when people kept insisting that Hook is the character to die because Colin is getting his own pilot or they just want Hook dead I’ll move past it though I really hope Captain Swan can win I keep thinking that the fanbase at large will support us but I guess it’s unrealistic to think people will actually think show before ship, it’ll be on the strength of our fellow shipmates!
I don’t understand how people can still hate on Hook after seeing his backstory in “Good Form.” I guess ST’ers feel threatened that they’re ‘shipping a dying ‘ship. which they are..
On a different subject, the most ridiculous rumor I’ve seen pop up is that we paid People’s Choice Awards to nominate Hook/Emma for Best On-Screen Chemistry. It’s a big joke on tumblr right now, how we bribed them. Never mind that CS’ers were sitting behind their computer and voting non-stop and that’s how they made it into the final round.
They just voted and voted.
No money was involved.
I don’t understand how people can still hate on Hook after seeing his backstory in “Good Form.” I guess ST’ers feel threatened that they’re ‘shipping a dying ‘ship. which they are.. On a different subject, the most ridiculous rumor I’ve seen pop up is that we paid People’s Choice Awards to nominate Hook/Emma for Best On-Screen Chemistry. It’s a big joke on tumblr right now, how we bribed them. Never mind that CS’ers were sitting behind their computer and voting non-stop and that’s how they made it into the final round. They just voted and voted. No money was involved.
ha! How low could people sink! It just belittles all the dedication fans put in! I’m proud of us for getting this far if Captain Swan takes it my God I wouldn’t be able to wipe the smile off.
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