The Captain Swan thread!

[obisgirl]

So happy today after all the killing off Hook talk! Captain Swan is here and is gonna be a big part of the story that’s told going forward

That’s true. Also,

“Also, just because someone truly loves someone [on Eddy saying that Emma loves Neal], it doesn’t mean they wind up together.”
— Adam Horowitz

[Captain Eala]

am highly confident at this point based on absolutely everything (especially from this episode!) that CS is endgame.

Yay!!!!!!!!!! 🙂

I’m basically to the point that if SF is a modern day fairy tale I don’t want one. EVER.

PREACH

I’ve seen some say that if she chooses Hook she’s taking the easy way out but hasn’t she suffered enough?

HOLD

THE

PHONE

What BS is this? No really, they’re actually saying that?

In what way is letting go of your painful past easy? In what way is letting go of the man whom you love easy? In what way is letting go of the father of your child easy? In what way is letting go of your first love easy? In what way is ANY of what Emma’s going through easy? In what way would taking a leap of faith be easy? In what way would letting go of what’s familiar to embrace what’s unknown be easy?

I’m literally shaking with anger right now. Because if they’re equating Emma choosing Killian as the “easy” way, then they’re equating Emma choosing Neal as the “hard” way. Which brings to mind this quote from Albus Dumbledore:

We must all face the choice between what is right, and what is easy.

SO BASICALLY, THEY’RE SAYING THAT EMMA CHOOSING NEAL IS THE “RIGHT” WAY? That’s how i’m reading it! I mean, DO THEY LISTEN TO THEMSELVES????? I mean, this is yet another freaking way that they are trying to detract from her choice, because if Emma chooses Killian, then they aren’t going to respect her decision, because it’s not the “hard” choice, it’s not the “right” choice. That is basically what they’re saying. And they call themselves Emma fans???????

And I’m about to get shouty and ranty right now.

I’M TAKING THIS FREAKING PERSONALLY OKAY

My parents had the relationship where my mother was physically and emotionally abused. My mother had to make the hard decision to LEAVE my father. AND IT WAS REALLY HARD. SHE LOVED HIM. AND WHILE I’M NOT SAYING THAT NEAL WAS OVERTLY AGGRESSIVE WITH EMMA, HE STILL CAUSED HER PAIN. HUGE EMOTIONAL PAIN, JUST LIKE MY FATHER CAUSED MY MOTHER. So basically, to me THEY ARE ADVOCATING THAT MY MOTHER SHOULD HAVE “FACED” and “GOTTEN OVER” THAT PAIN LIKE A GOOD LITTLE WIMP BECAUSE SHE LOVED HIM.

 

JUST BECAUSE YOU LOVE SOMEONE DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO BE EMOTIONALLY AND PHYSICALLY INTIMATE WITH THEM.

So much for feminism.

And so help me if they say “oh, but Neal left Emma for her own good” I AM GOING TO THROW SOMETHING BECAUSE HE ALSO LEFT HER FOR HIMSELF. AND AS OF 3X06, IT’S FAIRLY FREAKING CLEAR THAT HE UNDERSTANDS WHAT HE DID WAS WRONG.

/Rant over

Honestly, i am losing respect for ANY AND ALL SF arguments right now, not that I took them all that seriously to being with. OMG. *takes deep breaths* Their arguments are supercilious and pathetic in my opinion. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In what world should Emma EVER have to “get over” that pain??????? Why shouldn’t she be selfish with her choice and choose to be happy?????? ROAR

*lets out breath* *calms down*

If Emma chose Neal, if she felt that she COULD get over her pain, then I would respect her decision. Now, she isn’t going to, but I would respect her decision, because I love Emma Swan like no character I’ve ever loved. And especially if Neal stopped making Rumplestilskin-esque choices and had his own character arc.

I’ve seen some on tumblr say that we are being hypocritical because:

Killian:

A man unwilling to fight for what he wants, deserves what he gets.

and Neal:

I’ll never stop fighting for you. Never.

It. Is. Not. The. Same.

For one thing, Neal NEVER fought for Emma’s love. NEVER. EVER. Sure, he talks about it a lot. But i have seen no evidence that he’s actually done it. HE WAS A COWARD. HE ADMITTED IT HIMSELF IN 3X01, THAT HE NEVER FOUGHT FOR HER. THIS IS A CANON FACT.

Secondly, what he said was completely ignoring Emma’s own stated wishes and feelings, which she had also REITERATED. Emma wants to put him and her pain behind her and move. on.

Thirdly, Killian is fighting for Emma’s wishes in the purest sense, because he is fighting for her happiness above all else.

So when Neal says “i’ll never stop fighting for you” it’s in COMPLETE CONTRAST to Killian, and you can see from her face that it’s the LAST thing she wants to hear. The “I love you, I probably always will”, was immediately followed by her saying she wished he was dead and that she wants to move on. Look, we’ve all said it already, we’re all in complete agreement. What he said basically said was that he didn’t care about her wishes or the fact that she’s expressed a desire for closure. He wants to get her back, he want’s to act in the best interests of his OWN HAPPINESS. HE’S SELFISH.

I know i’m preaching to the choir here. Just, ugh, i needed to get that out.

 

 

 

 

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[Captain Eala]

’m getting a bit confused by people saying that Killian put pressure on Emma by telling her how he felt in the cave – that it wasn’t fair of him to drop all of that information on her when she has already been through so much and is worried about Henry.  Did I miss something??  How was he at ALL in control of what his secret was?  It wasn’t like he could choose what he wanted to reveal – it was supposed to be his darkest secret.  And I don’t see how his secret puts any pressure on her anyway.  Emma has clearly had the upper hand with Hook all along

I’m all ranted out, but yeah basically what you said.They’re trying to find reasons to dislike Killian even after Good Form and the fact that he’s fighting for Emma’s happiness EVERY STEP OF THE WAY (especially loved the way he IMMEDIATELY brought up saving Henry when they left they Echo Cave – he knows that Emma is consumed with worry for him). I’m sure we’ll be hearing YET MORE soon with the whole upcoming CaptainFire dynamic of the repetitive argument about how Killian abandoned Bae and how come we don’t hate on Killian for that when we hate on Neal for abandoning Emma? Well, I hate on Neal for doing it because, you know, Emma does, and also because it was, you know, WRONG. As Neal himself knows.

I’m glad he acknowledged that he put her through a lot – that made sense, but instead of saying he was never going to stop fighting for her (which I still insist makes ZERO sense since he never STARTED), wouldn’t it have been better for him to have told her that he will always love her too, or that he will always be there for her and Henry, or that he is going to make up for the pain he caused her, or that he is going to do everything he can to make sure he doesn’t hurt her again??

100% agreed, a more appropriate “secret” would have been:

“Emma, I love you, and if you think that there’s a possible chance for us, i’ll fight for it.”

But instead he completely ignored what she said and didn’t emotionally compromise himself in any way whatsoever despite the fact that the other just had to save him and they were (seemingly) alone.

Fellow shipmates, I LOVE you all – but sometimes you just write too much.

Lol, sorry, not sorry 😉

The “big reunion”?! That was Emma telling Neal that she doesn’t want to get back together with him.

YEP pretty much, though of course the other side are stubbornly denying this it seems. They got 3 minutes of screen time for goodness sake.

I was in so much pain, mates

mE ToO

I want her to be happy so so so much – she told MM that she was feeling good before the kiss! HUGE!

YES IT REALLY IS ISN’T IT

So happy today after all the killing off Hook talk! Captain Swan is here and is gonna be a big part of the story that’s told going forward

I LOVE THIS GIF

“Also, just because someone truly loves someone [on Eddy saying that Emma loves Neal], it doesn’t mean they wind up together.”

— Adam Horowitz

YUP

And also this:

“I think that in all life there are the people that are right for you and there are the people that are wrong for you. Then there are the people you just choose.”

– Eddy Kitsis

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[obisgirl]

@Captain Eala, let me give you a cyber hug.

I agree with everything you said and I’m sorry about what your mom went through too. ST ‘shippers who say stuff like that, Emma choosing Hook is the easy choice, clearly, are only looking out for one-half of their ‘ship. Neal and have a twisted view of how Emma factors into the pairing as a whole.

For me, the reason I ‘ship CS is because I care equally about Emma and Killian’s happiness. I care about both of them as characters. I love their stories and how perfectly, they mirror each other. I love them both.

Emma and Killian’s journey is not going to be an easy one. They are going to face obstacles (most likely, Neal). We already see Emma wanting to move on from Neal and start over. That is huge. She’s actually making the difficult choice to move on because you never forget about your first love. A part of Emma will always love Neal but Emma also recognizes it’s unhealthy for her in the long run to continue clinging to the past.

This is called character development. Both Emma and Killian are realizing this together, with him referring to Milah as his first love. Which, by the way, was not an easy thing for him to do considering he’s spent 300 years trying to avenge her murder. There is nothing easy about both of their journeys. Nothing for CS is going to be easy but they will always be stronger together, than apart.

Then, I see Neal always taking the easy option. He admitted that he took the easy out where Emma was concerned, running away and just not trying. Then, he resorts to using the one thing he hates the most in this world, magic, to help him find an easy way to Neverland. Dude’s been alive for almost as long Hook’s been alive and he’s still making the wrong choices.

And still, not putting Emma first, ignoring her pleas to let her move on with her life because she wants to be happy. He’ll happily cause her more pain if it means she’ll give in and give him another chance.

[moraha]

Then, I see Neal always taking the easy option. He admitted that he took the easy out where Emma was concerned, running away and just not trying. Then, he resorts to using the one thing he hates the most in this world, magic, to help him find an easy way to Neverland. Dude’s been alive for almost as long Hook’s been alive and he’s still making the wrong choices. And still, not putting Emma first, ignoring her pleas to let her move on with her life because she wants to be happy. He’ll happily cause her more pain if it means she’ll give in and give him another chance.

And that is so sad. I hope she’ll be able to make a decision without Neal putting her under pressure – and that he’ll respect that decision.

[obisgirl]

I hope she’ll be able to make a decision without Neal putting her under pressure – and that he’ll respect that decision.

I hope so too but not likely.

[Captain Eala]

@Captain Eala, let me give you a cyber hug.

Awwww thanks obisgirl!!! 🙂 *returns hug*

I agree with everything you said and I’m sorry about what your mom went through too. ST ‘shippers who say stuff like that, Emma choosing Hook is the easy choice, clearly, are only looking out for one-half of their ‘ship. Neal and have a twisted view of how Emma factors into the pairing as a whole.

Thanks, I just needed to use that example because this is one of the main reasons why I view Swanfire as so unhealthy, and to both parties. Because if Emma goes back to Neal it validates all of his Rumple-esque behaviour, such as, using a recent example, using a toddler to get to NL. He needs someone to bring out the best in him, something Emma has never been able to do, which oddly (lol not really) enough she does with Killian. He needs a Belle.

I agree that most SF shippers seem to be Neal stans before Emma stans, which is fine. But this “triangle” is all about Emma and her Happy Ending. Not Neal’s. And I also think that they’re ignoring the fact that Killian has been doing his level best to make Emma happy whereas Neal has done almost always the precise opposite. Now i’m not saying he tries to be selfish, but there really is no escaping that he is.

Whatever about the jail thing, it’s been hacked to death, but Neal left Emma. He left her, and it was for more than just getting her back to her family. He wanted to put distance between him and Rumple. His reaction in “Manhattan” speaks to that: “You brought him to me? Why would you do that?” – that is clear framing of the narrative right there. Neal demands that she break her deal with Rumple in order to keep his distance from his father, despite KNOWING what Rumple does to people who break deals. Sure he came back to help her in his apartment, but the fact is his first impulse was to be selfish. Neal decided not to go to SB to give Emma an explanation of why he abandoned her because he was afraid of his father. Neal doesn’t take into consideration how painful it could be for Emma to have Tamara in SB – he only thinks of his own needs “I need her”.He doesn’t think about how hard or demeaning it is on Emma when he disparages her theories about Tamara and her lie-detecting ability.

I’m sure there are many more examples but these are established FIRMLY in canon. Some of the above could also be classified as being inconsiderate/cowardly – but those are forms of selfishness IMO.

For me, the reason I ‘ship CS is because I care equally about Emma and Killian’s happiness. I care about both of them as characters. I love their stories and how perfectly, they mirror each other. I love them both.

I love both too, I really do, especially after this season. I would definitely consider myself a Killian stan too, although he’s a fingers breadth lower than my love for Emma, but he’s been climbing all the time this season so I think I will love both of them equally soon enough. I was dying for both of them in Ariel – but again, Killian a bit less than Emma. For all that Killian is good, Captain Hook did some bad things. I accept that, I accept his flaws, and the fact that some were born from love helps too. But Neal fans constantly gloss over all of his bad treatment of Emma. It really annoys me, because the way he treated Emma was not true love in the slightest. Killian supports Emma. Charming supports Snow. Neal drags Emma down. Another thing that annoys me that SF shippers ignore and like MysteryKat was talking about – Emma regards her time with Neal as shameful. Not as something she wants to remember.

Emma and Killian’s journey is not going to be an easy one. They are going to face obstacles (most likely, Neal).

Heck no, but that’s what’s going to make it fun right?? 🙂 The whole CaptainFire relationship is going to make things complicated, and there’ll be resentment etc. but how I want it to end is by Neal accepting that Emma’s choice is Killian, the way he didn’t accept that Milah’s choice was Killian. Bae basically accused Killian of killing Milah himself – he’s in complete and utter denial that his father is the one who killed his mother (evidenced by the fact that Neal has never brought it up with Rumple) and so if Neal acknowledges Emma’s choice in Killian that would be a HECK of a lot of welcome character growth for him.

Henry will most likely be a voicer of objections to CS too.

She’s actually making the difficult choice to move on because you never forget about your first love. A part of Emma will always love Neal but Emma also recognizes it’s unhealthy for her in the long run to continue clinging to the past.

YES

He’ll happily cause her more pain if it means she’ll give in and give him another chance.

I don’t know about the “happily” part to be honest, like I was saying above he isn’t malicious about being selfish, but it’s certainly there, and yes, he’s pretty much saying “you’re not going to get rid of me” and not listening to what she said. Not putting her needs first. Not putting her happiness above all else. Which is what a certain other person is doing 😉

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[Captain Eala]

moraha wrote: I hope she’ll be able to make a decision without Neal putting her under pressure – and that he’ll respect that decision.

I hope so too but not likely.

GAH I hope three! I really don’t want him to continue down the Rumple route like he has… I want him to have his own unique character arc and not be paralleling his father or being a reason for curses etc.

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[obisgirl]

you know how I mentioned awhile back, how the villains on this show know what’s going on with CS?

here’s a really nice rundown villains who have tried to keep couples apart.

[Killian Jones]

just listened to the podcast today 🙂 I was so happy I got my email read. I think they needed a Captain Swan view the did miss the one point I sent in about CaptainSwanFire being more about Emma facing her past and moving one to her future.

[Author]

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