The Captain Swan thread!

[Captain Eala]

you know how I mentioned awhile back, how the villains on this show know what’s going on with CS? here’s a really nice rundown villains who have tried to keep couples apart.

LOVED that. Really nice validation for what we’ve been saying all along.

I was so happy I got my email read.

Aw congrats!

I think they needed a Captain Swan view the did miss the one point I sent in about CaptainSwanFire being more about Emma facing her past and moving one to her future.

Well, there’s a surprise…….

[killianhookfan]

obisgirl wrote:

@Captain Eala, let me give you a cyber hug.

Awwww thanks obisgirl!!! *returns hug*

obisgirl wrote:

I agree with everything you said and I’m sorry about what your mom went through too. ST ‘shippers who say stuff like that, Emma choosing Hook is the easy choice, clearly, are only looking out for one-half of their ‘ship. Neal and have a twisted view of how Emma factors into the pairing as a whole.

Thanks, I just needed to use that example because this is one of the main reasons why I view Swanfire as so unhealthy, and to both parties. Because if Emma goes back to Neal it validates all of his Rumple-esque behaviour, such as, using a recent example, using a toddler to get to NL. He needs someone to bring out the best in him, something Emma has never been able to do, which oddly (lol not really) enough she does with Killian. He needs a Belle.

I agree that most SF shippers seem to be Neal stans before Emma stans, which is fine. But this “triangle” is all about Emma and her Happy Ending. Not Neal’s. And I also think that they’re ignoring the fact that Killian has been doing his level best to make Emma happy whereas Neal has done almost always the precise opposite. Now i’m not saying he tries to be selfish, but there really is no escaping that he is.

Whatever about the jail thing, it’s been hacked to death, but Neal left Emma. He left her, and it was for more than just getting her back to her family. He wanted to put distance between him and Rumple. His reaction in “Manhattan” speaks to that: “You brought him to me? Why would you do that?” – that is clear framing of the narrative right there. Neal demands that she break her deal with Rumple in order to keep his distance from his father, despite KNOWING what Rumple does to people who break deals. Sure he came back to help her in his apartment, but the fact is his first impulse was to be selfish. Neal decided not to go to SB to give Emma an explanation of why he abandoned her because he was afraid of his father. Neal doesn’t take into consideration how painful it could be for Emma to have Tamara in SB – he only thinks of his own needs “I need her”.He doesn’t think about how hard or demeaning it is on Emma when he disparages her theories about Tamara and her lie-detecting ability.

I’m sure there are many more examples but these are established FIRMLY in canon. Some of the above could also be classified as being inconsiderate/cowardly – but those are forms of selfishness IMO.

obisgirl wrote:

For me, the reason I ‘ship CS is because I care equally about Emma and Killian’s happiness. I care about both of them as characters. I love their stories and how perfectly, they mirror each other. I love them both.

I love both too, I really do, especially after this season. I would definitely consider myself a Killian stan too, although he’s a fingers breadth lower than my love for Emma, but he’s been climbing all the time this season so I think I will love both of them equally soon enough. I was dying for both of them in Ariel – but again, Killian a bit less than Emma. For all that Killian is good, Captain Hook did some bad things. I accept that, I accept his flaws, and the fact that some were born from love helps too. But Neal fans constantly gloss over all of his bad treatment of Emma. It really annoys me, because the way he treated Emma was not true love in the slightest. Killian supports Emma. Charming supports Snow. Neal drags Emma down. Another thing that annoys me that SF shippers ignore and like MysteryKat was talking about – Emma regards her time with Neal as shameful. Not as something she wants to remember.

Emma and Killian’s journey is not going to be an easy one. They are going to face obstacles (most likely, Neal).

Heck no, but that’s what’s going to make it fun right?? The whole CaptainFire relationship is going to make things complicated, and there’ll be resentment etc. but how I want it to end is by Neal accepting that Emma’s choice is Killian, the way he didn’t accept that Milah’s choice was Killian. Bae basically accused Killian of killing Milah himself – he’s in complete and utter denial that his father is the one who killed his mother (evidenced by the fact that Neal has never brought it up with Rumple) and so if Neal acknowledges Emma’s choice in Killian that would be a HECK of a lot of welcome character growth for him.

Henry will most likely be a voicer of objections to CS too.

She’s actually making the difficult choice to move on because you never forget about your first love. A part of Emma will always love Neal but Emma also recognizes it’s unhealthy for her in the long run to continue clinging to the past.

YES

He’ll happily cause her more pain if it means she’ll give in and give him another chance.

I don’t know about the “happily” part to be honest, like I was saying above he isn’t malicious about being selfish, but it’s certainly there, and yes, he’s pretty much saying “you’re not going to get rid of me” and not listening to what she said. Not putting her needs first. Not putting her happiness above all else. Which is what a certain other person is doing

THIS!!!!

And I know I always blab about my 41 year old opinion but I have a personal opinion as well.

I was married for the first time when I was 27. I have a 12 year old son. When my son was still an infant I came home from work one day and discovered that my husband had taken off without ANY forewarning. He cleared out our bank accounts and took all of our furniture. Luckily I was very well employed and had family who could help me. It took me several days to even locate my husband. Needless to say we are now divorced. He has had hardly ANY involvement in my son’s life (entirely his choice) and never pays child support (luckily I don’t need it). When my son was 3 I married my current husband (who has raised my son as his own). Even if I wasn’t married, if my ex-husband showed back up today profusely apologetic for what he did, ready to be an active part of our lives, and promising to never hurt us again there is absolutely NO WAY on earth I would EVER take that man back – regardless of how I may have felt about him at one time in my life. And no amount of telling me I should take him back for my son would ever convince me it would be the best thing for my son. You know why? Because there is no way I could EVER trust that man ever again, even if I wanted to. And there is no way I would take the chance that he would repeat history and hurt me AND my son all over again.

It sounds really happy and noble to tell someone they should stay together for their kids. And if you are talking about two people who are married and have decided they just don’t love each other anymore I totally get that – there are ways to rekindle love and work on your marriage. But when you are talking about situations where things are unhealthy and unsafe – it is NOT better to stay together for the kids and even counselors will tell you that when kids are exposed to certain types of behaviors in marriages they will end up repeating the negative behaviors in their OWN relationships.

This is what drives me bonkers about the Emma/Neal thing. They were never married!!! Their child (who Neal never even knew existed) was given up for adoption and neither Emma nor Neal have any legal rights to Henry. So we are talking about a situation where a woman has known the child she gave up for adoption for less than a year, has no legal rights to him – not even any kind of legal visitation schedule, and has only had the guy she dated over 11 years ago back in her life for probably a matter of weeks now but people are saying the best decision she can make is to pick the guy that ditched her and threw her in jail because a guy he just met told him he should???

Reminder: Emma is a princess, a savior, and a strong and independent woman who has learned to take care of herself. She’s got it going on!! I don’t see that she needs to settle for anything!!! She needs someone who worships the ground she walks on but isn’t a stupid sap like Storybrook David. She needs someone who respects that fact that she is a princess and a savior but at the same time, couldn’t care less because she was raised in the real world and is still just “Emma Swan.” She needs someone who can challenge her because she gets stubborn, angry, and shuts down when she feels vulnerable. She needs someone who understands that she has been hurt but who won’t let her wallow in her grief when she starts to feel sorry for herself. She needs someone who can remind her that she doesn’t always have to take life so seriously even when the weight of the world has been placed on her shoulders. She needs someone who will watch out to make sure she is okay when she is more worried about everyone else. She needs someone who understands who and what is important to her, and who will love her enough to make those things important to him as well even if it isn’t always easy. She needs someone who isn’t afraid to open up first because he knows that it is hard for her to talk about her feelings. And most importantly she needs someone who wants to be her hero but is willing to sacrifice to give her the freedom to make her own choices – something no one else allows her to do. As far as I can tell, Killian is the person who does all of this for Emma.

[surayya]

Just found this on FB & I think it’s the BEST Emma/Killian/Captain Swan post EVER- wish I had seen it before emails closed for this weeks pod cast!

All her life, she’s been alone. She’s spent her whole life not only thinking she was unwanted, but that she was unlovable. She just wasn’t enough.

With her parents, growing up, she could at least hold onto a plausible explanation—there could be reasons. Especially after she had Henry, she could put herself into their perspective. Her situation wasn’t ideal and it was her best chance to be given up (a truth). But with Neal…nothing. Even if there was an explanation that she eventually got, that doesn’t diminish that for nearly a dozen years, Neal’s betrayal cemented pre-existing self-worth issues, told her that she wasn’t worth enough to stick around, not to betray her, etc. She’s not enough.

That’s the pain she was talking about in 3×06. Everything she’d pushed down for all those years…all the self-loathing, the feeling of being unwanted and incapable of being loved: Neal makes her feel those things.

So cut back to her parents. In 3×02, Emma realized that she’ll always identify as an orphan. She feels like that sad, lonely little lost girl who “didn’t matter, and thought she never would.”And after what Snow said to her in the Echo Cave, my heart just breaks. Again, not trying to bash Snow, because this isn’t something she would’ve said otherwise, and she has a right to want a second child—but that doesn’t change the fact that once again, Emma’s going to be left feeling like an orphan. She doesn’t get parents—at least, not in the way she wanted. She’s not enough.

But then…enter Killian, and his secret.

In a season where Emma’s finally beginning to confront her abandonments and resulting self-worth issues, she has a love interest who is bending over backwards for her and she doesn’t even realize how much—because he’s not doing it for her attention or her praise…just her happiness.

It’s going to be painful being around her mother for a while, and it’s going to be even more painful being around Neal.

But Killian makes her feel good. He does more than that—he’s encouraging at every turn, praising, we all know that the only way he’s leaving her is if she asks him to, not because someone else tells him it’s for the greater good.

Imagine how Emma felt to have heard Killian’s confession.

That her, only her, just meeting her…made him re-evaluate everything he thought he wanted. That she gave his life light, just by being in it. That he’s falling for her after 300 years of devotion to a ghost, and doing everything he can to make her happy, to be by her side, to be in her life.

Even after finding her parents and seeing Neal again, Emma has never felt like she’s enough, fears that got confirmed in the Echo Cave.

Except by one person. For Killian, she is enough. She is worth giving up revenge for. She is worth going to back to Neverland for. She is worth everything he’s done, just by being who she is.

To find her parents, she had to break the curse. To be with Neal (even if it ended up with her in jail), she had to steal the watches. To be with Killian, she just had to be herself.

http://onceuponamirror.tumblr.com/post/66150125008/in-which-i-suddenly-have-so-many-emma-feels

I’m just basking in the glory that is this post! 😀

[surayya]

Ok- so now it’s letting me post again- I’ll post what I wanted to earlier …

@ Captain Eala & rumplgoldfan- I Totally agree with you both!

Congrats on your email Stelio! I’m about to listen to the podcast after writing this 🙂

I have to admit I was VERY ticked off after the initial reaction podcast, when Jenny said ‘Emma would be doing the “dishonorable” thing by choosing Hook/Killian’ >:( That kind of attitude REALLY annoys me- We have all said it would be “out of character” for Emma to choose Neal &/or “unhealthy” for her to do so- but not one of us has EVER said she would be doing a “dishonorable” thing by choosing Neal, yet SF/STer’s think that, that sort of attitude is ok?!

Most of us have always said Emma will probably always have a place in her heart for Neal, thats only natural- Neal was Emma’s 1st love, the 1st person she ever let in, the 1st person she trusted, the 1st person who returned her love, the person who gave her, her 1st child. But everything they’ve had Neal do is for him & him alone- he wants family & it seems he doesnt care who it’s with, as long as HE get’s what he wants & that drives me to distraction- it really really bugs me no end, he has shown little or no loyalty…. to anyone (aside from maybe Henry), he has acted with his own best interests 1st & foremost, he has shown zero emotional response to Tam’s betrayal or the the fall out from his ‘loving’ her (which has only been a week, yet they drag Emma over the coals for having feelings for & kissing Killian), he refuses to listen to what people are telling him, he just hears what he wants to & to hell with the rest & he is entirely judgmental of others- this is what Emma has to chose from Killian & that? & Someone like that is who she should choose over someone who has but her (EMMA’S) happiness above his own!? I was looking forward to the triangle & how they would handle it, but Neal is soooo ‘wrong’ on so many levels & Hook/Killian so perfect, it’s just downright painful to even consider SF at all atm.

Also I dont see use being hypocritical over Neal abandoning Emma & Hook abandoning Bae at all- they are 2 entirely different circumstances!

 

1) Neal was SUPPOSED to LOVE with 16/17yr old Emma, yet he allowed her to go to jail for possessing the stolen goods HE had given her.

2) Neal allowed August to send her to jail in the 1st place

3) Neal wanted to get away from Emma when he found out who she really was & what she was connected to-That is his 1st abandonment of Emma. .

4) Neal felt guilty & just wanted to make sure she was ok so he could move on, so he threw some money & a car for her & left (he didnt even send them himself to ensure she got it either- he could have done so anonymously, it not like he didnt know her name!)

5) Neal “moved on- he didnt wait or linger for Emma or their dream of Tallahassee, if he had Emma would have found him in the 2yrs she looked for him there.

6) Neal didnt move outside SB, to be close in case Emma needed him, he didnt keep tabs on her- for his own peace of mind, because he had already moved on.

7) Neal abandoned her AGAIN by not returning to SB when he was sent the postcard- why? His own fear of facing his father was greater than his love for Emma, whom he’d already got over & moved on from by that time.

8) Neal sent her to her certain death, by asking Emma to break her deal with Gold, so he could get away from his father- again choosing his fear over Emma- yes he came back, but only because his guilt got the better of him.

9) He finds out he has a son & still isnt interested in moving closer to him, because his father is in residence there.

10) Only goes to SB because he doesnt want his father to die in his apartment.

11) Is a grade A jerk to Emma in SB, putting her ‘power/skill’ down & enjoying her ‘jealously’ of Tamara/his situation.

12) Ignores everything Emma has told him of the pain he causes her, which she doesnt want to relive or feel anymore & instead say’s I’ll never stop fighting for you- (no matter how much it hurts you!) Never!

Now for Hook- Bae

1) Hook (a villain) saves Bae from almost certain death by drowning & mermaids, by pulling him out of the water,

2) After having his life & those of his crew threatened, Hook finds out who Bae is & decides to try giving him a home on his ship to honor his Milah’s memory- despite the risk to all their lives.

3) Hook honorably refuses to fight Bae when Bae finds out he knew his mother & does his best to tell him the truth of what happen, to explain what happened.

4) Hook OFFERS Bae (who is NO relation to him) a HOME & FAMILY with him, which Bae turns down flat, with insults& insists on being let go on NL.

5) Hook Offers Bae a home & family again- one last time, which Bae emphatically refuses again.

6) Hook allows the lost boys to take Bae with them, rather than allow Bae to go a shore himself- in order to safeguard the lives of his crew & himself.

How are those 2 situations the same or even comparable?!?!

[obisgirl]

I can totally get why we ‘ship CS. There are trust issues when it comes to ST and they’re not trust issues that are simply going to go away, even if they reunite. The thing I come back to, Baelfire knows what it felt like when he was abandoned and he did the one thing, you don’t do to another orphan: he abandoned Emma.

Also, if you re-watch the Journey to Neverland recap, the narrator says that he abandoned Emma.

And like Henry said to Jefferson:

Anything’s better than nothing. She’ll spend her whole life wondering why you left her. Not knowing is the worst.

Then, there’s also this quote which goes hand in hand with what Henry says:

If you leave someone at least tell them why, because what’s more painful than being abandoned; is knowing you’re not worth an explanation.

Emma got an explanation but the problem is, it was eleven years too late. She spent those last eleven years alone.

At least now, Emma is realizing that there’s someone out there (Killian) who truly loves her and is putting her needs first above his own. And that’s really the kind of love that she deserves, selfless true love. I don’t see her getting that from Neal when he won’t even respect the fact that she wants to move on with her life.

[Killian Jones]

In regards to this PCA voting  I’ve done this voting things a few times and I know it helps to organize voting rallies so that there’s a bunch of us voting all at once. Believe me a bunch of  fans voting like crazy can really do a lot.  I’m on twitter @TonyWestside088 in case anybody wants to go ahead and do this I’m posting videos and pics on my twitter and tumblr on tumblr I have the same name as here steliokontos1 🙂

[MysteryKat25]

Not sure what this means yet but someone on set today tweeted that Emma & Hook were in her bug! The bug is as much a part of Emma’s life as Henry and Neal – a part of her that will always be there no matter what but I can’t wait to see these  two together in a car! We missed out on Hook being in the same vehicle as Charming so this should be VERY interesting. Wonder where they were going and why they were alone!

For the record I’m a big fan of things belonging to just one ship. It’s kind of a big deal for me in most circumstances and one of the reasons I didn’t *love* the coconut map (even though it is kinda brilliant and cool) is because it started making coconuts symbolic of SF right after we had the coconut scene for CS. So I totally get why anybody would flip out about Hook & Emma spending time together in the bug (for whatever reason) because that’s considered a SF thing because that’s how they met etc, but it is ALSO a CORE PART of EMMA and, like Neal, a part of her past that isn’t going away even if she moves on with someone else.

Under normal circumstances, it would be majorly awkward to still be driving the car you met your ex in that you don’t want to go back to, but at this point of the series, it’s more closely connected to EMMA herself as a character than it is with Emma and Neal. I definitely was hoping for a conversation about the bug at some point, mostly the fact that she kept it, but it’s still a part of her past and for a long time, it was the only home she had (much like Hook and his ship which, by the way, was also the home he shared “on the run” if you will  since they were pirates, with Milah aka HIS FIRST LOVE. Hmm, sound familiar?

Yay for new scenes & hopefully lots of bonding time in the bug! Can’t imagine where they’d be driving to or why they’re in the car but so happy to know they’re still filming together and closely at that! Most of the spoiler pics these days have been group shots but this is actually Emma alone with Hook in her bug! YAY! Guess they’re still on good terms then!

 

I need more info! And CONTEXT! And a new episode. Hate waiting so long to find out stuff but I want to see it in context too. Spoiler pics / comments from spectators can be so confusing and not always what they appear to be! At least we know that they shot together in the bug – now we need to know why and what was said so we know if it’s a super thing or not but psst – it will be!

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[MysteryKat25]

Here’s the tweet with a picture of Hook and Emma standing outside the bug tweeted by the same person who first mentioned there being a scene in the first place even though they’re a self-proclaimed ST-shipper (seriously how nice to bother to take pics for people from other ships! I wish more would do things like that!

https://twitter.com/katmtan/status/398693622469517313/photo/1

But guys…notice what she’s wearing in that pic! Looks like a skirt! She’s wearing leggings and boots but it definitely looks a little bit more dressy than normal and when have we seen Emma in a skirt? (If we had it was very briefly and not in a meaningful capacity because nothing comes to mind except the dress in the pilot – this is not typical Emma Swan attire one way or the other). And why is she even WEARING a skirt to begin with?? But here we have her about to get into very close quarters in her bug, alone with Hook, wearing a skirt!

Similarities for Emma/Hook and modes of transportation that I just thought about:

Emma – bug

• She stole it
• It was her home while she was on the run as a thief
• It has painful memories for her associated with her first love
• Still a part of her life / is her main method of transportation and will always be a part of her / associated with her character (aka: it’s iconic Emma Swan)

Hook – ship

• He stole it
• It was his home while he was on the run as a pirate
• It has painful memories for him associated with his first love
• Still a part of his life / is his main method of transportation and will always be a part of him / associated with his character (aka: it’s iconic Captain Hook)

So to say that Emma shouldn’t have the bug if she doesn’t want Neal back, is to say that Hook should ditch his ship too because of Milah. Neal and Milah will ALWAYS be a part of what makes up Emma and Hook. ALWAYS. There will always be painful memories there but at the same time it’s part of what makes them WHO THEY ARE.

Also of note – they spent way more time ALONE in the bug / ship than they ever did in sharing it with their respective first loves. Hook had maybe a few years with Milah on his ship and then 300 years alone, and Emma shared the bug with Neal for…a matter of months perhaps? And over a decade alone.

Having the ship doesn’t make it impossible for Hook to move on and nor does the fact that Emma still has the bug. Especially if she’s going somewhere alone with Hook in it!

As for what’s going on with that spoiler pic, without context we don’t know if it’s good or bad but we DO know that Emma and Hook are alone in the bug which is awesome

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[Captain Eala]

Not sure what this means yet but someone on set today tweeted that Emma & Hook were in her bug!

AKLDJF AIDF SJFKLJDFL ASFJKAS FLASJDFLK JASDLFKJAEF AF AKLFJAKSJFRSAJ

NEED 3X11 NOW

Totally agree with you MysteryKat by the way

dkfjaklsdjfas fj faklsjfasjuoeru sfjslaf laksjf asjfrl

@Stelio – I could probably take part in a voting rally but I’m in the GMT time zone so not sure how feasible it is for me! Great idea though!

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[surayya]

Ohhhh, I cant wait to see pics MystryKat- sounds awesome ….. I mean Hook/Killian in Emma’s little yellow Bug ….. LOL! Cant wait to see his reaction lol

The look on Killina’s face over what I assume is the prospect of taking a trip in the car is hard case too lol

I have the same problem as above- different time zone.

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