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We saw a lot of wonderful Hook/young Bae moments on the Jolly Roger – teaching him how to steer the ship (and apparently how to navigate). We even watched Hook painfully scratch through the markings at the helm because it hurt him too much to see it after his relationship with Bae fell apart when Bae discovered that Hook was the pirate who ruined his family even though he was just told that Rumple killed her, not Hook like he was originally led to believe.
There are…a lot of blanks to be filled in. Hook said that he spent quite some time with Bae so I’d like to see more of that for sure. They definitely had some cute fatherly moments between the two of them, and bonding over their lousy fathers (a backstory we still need for Hook since all we’ve seen so far is his relationship with his brother), but there were definitely moments that showed he actually is good with kids and genuinely cared about Bae (which helps negate the “he won’t be a good dad for Henry” stuff.
Right now he’s keeping Henry at arm’s length by referring to him as “Emma’s son” or the “boy” or the “lad” and we’ve only ever heard him say Henry once when he asked Emma who Henry’s father was after she said the kid just lost his dad, but we haven’t really gotten any interaction for Henry and Hook yet.
I’m really hoping once they get him back that Henry will be going around hugging everyone and literally the only person he won’t be is Hook and that Emma tells him to go thank him too and it starts off all awkward and then Henry just hugs him anyway cause everyone says he was instrumental in getting them there and helping (he saved Charming’s life too – that should win him some favor), and then you just see Hook melt at once again having a child care about him if only briefly (fully expect Henry to be SwanFire til given a reason not to be but the kid believes in true love, so we’ll see what happens!) – That’s my perfect Henry headcanon though, everybody else will be hugging him but Hook won’t feel like he has a reason to be included. *major sad face/Killian feels* so somebody better remind everyone that he’s helpful and one of them.
I’m not really sure what to make of the rest of Hook and Neal’s history. We’ve seen but a glimpse of it so far which originally led many of us to believe that it wasn’t for very long but he could easily have been there for awhile. Hook taught him many things and we’ve seen that come into play once in awhile, but he obviously grew to care for him greatly. He initially took him in because of Milah but he was absolutely devastated when Bae found the sketch of Milah and it all fell apart. Hook was ready to give up his revenge (which we know is a huge thing for him) in order to be a family with Bae as Milah would have wanted. The look on his face was excruciating, hearing how much Bae was hurt by all of this and the assumptions that he made off of the information. He didn’t really have much time to process the fact that Rumple killed Milah, not Hook and then jumped to Hook being just as bad as Rumple (in all fairness, Bae was a child and we see that kind of tendency from Henry once in awhile and then they grow out of it so it’ll be fine).
The problem comes in with the last time WE saw them interact. I don’t count their time in NY because it was offscreen that Hook was tied up so not important enough for us to know, and they didn’t talk before that at all, or any other time in SB. So until this episode, we haven’t seen them talk at all as adults and they seemed to be perfectly fine until Hook tried to smooth over things by commenting on the elephant in the room to get it out of the way and be done with it. He was truly surprised that Emma didn’t say anything and was initially hurt by it and then seemed to realize it meant he had a chance still because of the way Neal was acting about it. It’s rather unfortunate that Hook chose to stoop to his level of childish behavior about it all, sending Emma over the edge, but hopefully that’s our of their systems now. Boys will be boys I guess, but they’re hundreds of years old and should know better!
So that leaves what happened in NL in the past that we don’t know about. How did Hook know about Neal’s cave? Did he keep an eye on him after he sent him with the Lost Boys?
I think the answer to this is yes. He made a rash decision in anger because Bae was adamant about leaving him. There’s no escaping NL (or mostly no escaping it) and Hook was responsible for his crew as well. The Lost Boys were constantly coming around looking for Bae and had he just wandered off, this likely wouldn’t have stopped and they would have gotten more and more upset. It’s not an excuse, just like I don’t excuse Neal just because his actions for various things were with the best of intentions at times, but Hook did have a lot going on that was more than just Bae.
It was a knee-jerk reaction that I’m sure has haunted Hook ever since then. He’s always extremely sad when talking about Bae and cared for him a great deal. Neal seemed to think his sword was back in the cave and surprised that Hook had given it to Emma and that Hook was sentimental. I was a little surprised at that line from him because he did seem to have a good relationship with Hook until he discovered Milah’s picture. I fully expected something along the lines of “You kept this? All this time?” and have a moment where Neal recognizes that Hook does care about him, and I think maybe in a roundabout way that line did that, but I was hoping for more acknowledgement of their past friendship.
The timeline is majorly fuzzy, especially when people don’t age for a very long time. Hook said they spent quite some time together and I think that what ultimately happened was all done very quickly and presumably they both regretted it whether they got a chance to say so or not. It’s clearly something that affected Hook. It was the last time he let someone in so close that he almost stopped caring about his revenge. We saw him make the same offer to Bae that Emma made to him – to be a part of something. To let go of the longer/revenge thing and have people that care about you. He wanted to be a family with Bae and it destroyed him when Bae refused (though he had good reason to).
I HATE that he gave Bae up to the Lost Boys even though it wouldn’t him or his crew to keep protecting someone who doesn’t want to be there and I fully believe that he gave Bae every opportunity to change his mind and then he would have fought to the death for him, no question. He begged and pleaded and it did absolutely nothing.
We don’t know how long Bae stayed with the Lost Boys. They may have realized it wasn’t Henry, and he took off on his own until he “escaped” – still seems like Pan manipulated everything in the timeline so I’m really not sure if he escaped or was let go, we’ll have to see how his plan works and what information Pan gives out along the way, but we do know he was off alone living in the caves presumably for a long time. He had made it his home and had tally marks on the wall and sketches of things that meant something to him everywhere etc etc.
It IS important that we know that Hook knew about this cave. I have a feeling once things calmed down again, he was panged with major regret and probably went to make sure that Bae was safe. He may have even gone after him to try to repair things (we just don’t know) but he did find the cave. For all we know, he saw Bae and almost said something, only to not end up doing it because he presumed that Bae was happier/better off without him at that point. We just don’t know yet.
But given the way that Hook has talked about him, including this episode actually REMINDING us that Hook does indeed consider him a friend, as well as seeing all of those adorable moments of Hook and young Bae when he was pulling him over with his hook and teaching him how to steer and ruffling his hair, that there was a genuine friendship between them and that everything was great until Bae found his mother’s picture.
At the beginning of this episode, it seemed like they were perfectly fine and Neal wasn’t holding anything against him (not even stabbing Rumple – there was literally no reaction to anything until he brought up Emma). Whereas when Neal was confronted with Rumple in NY, he was having none of it AT ALL.
It was also interesting to me that even though Neal was OBVIOUSLY upset (and rightly so) given the information that Hook gave him, they still had more of a playful banter about how Hook came to NL on a ship through a portal but was giving him grief over a magical coconut. It was cute. I felt like the “are you daft?” scene would have been an even lovelier Hook/Neal moment had it played before Neal finding out there was any competition for Emma’s affections, but it still served as a reminder (at least to me) that these two were once good friends and it seemed more like a playful/friendly fight in that moment. It wasn’t until Neal went to leave that scene, and then again later, and then outright fighting later on that that disappeared albeit temporarily.
I have high hopes that they’ll sort it all out. I think Emma needs to learn all about it at some point but Hook and Neal need to work it out between themselves too. Should be extremely interesting once Rumple is added to the mix as well. Neal is a grown man now. He loves his Papa (even though he doesn’t trust him) and I still think, even with Emma being an issue, that he cares about Hook as well. He’s had a lot of time to think things through and I think on some level will understand it better now that he’s grown up (and has made mistakes of his own).
Hook was the one who told him about Milah. That she ran away with Hook but regretted leaving him every day and that Rumple was the one that killed her. Bae reacted badly (obvious reasons) but then said that Hook was as bad as his other (bio) dad Rumple and threw a tantrum about it. Wanting to go back to his “real family: the Darlings” etc etc. Who does that sound like? HENRY. Telling Emma she was just as bad as Regina, or calling Emma his “real mom” but we know he loves BOTH Regina AND Emma and considers them all to be his real (& complicated) family, so I fully expect Neal to care about both Hook and Rumple, especially once some of these issues get sorted out.
Neal will run into the same types of issues that Henry and Emma are right now. Hook and Neal are now roughly the same age (like Emma is with her parents), and Neal has his dad back in his life but Hook was like a dad to him so he likely still cares about that, and now they can be more like friends cause he doesn’t really need him to be a dad (+ the awkwardness with the Emma thing), but then he’s still family like everyone is to Henry regardless of the weirdness of the situation (like Regina being both his mother and his step-great-grandmother). It’s just gonna be one of those things, but like Emma and Snowing – it will be more like friends that are family rather than parent/child since they’re all the same age.
Hook has never been able to destroy anything that was Milah’s. He should have destroyed Rumple’s only way of finding his son and let that serve as revenge, but he couldn’t because Milah made it. He took Bae in in the first place because he was Milah’s son. He cares greatly about him to the point where he was willing to give up his revenge only to have it thrown in his face and rejected. He was genuinely hurt by it and they built that relationship in so that it IS all complicated. They genuinely care about each other and have hurt each other deeply (and in different ways – I don’t condone how Hook reacted by handing him over but I get why he did it), but I do think that genuine love is there and will resurface over time.
They have a past and they genuinely cared about each other. They know things about the other that Emma doesn’t have a clue about. It’s like the shared past between Emma and Neal. He knows a side of her Hook doesn’t, just like Hook knows about the younger version of Neal was who very different to the man Emma knew before.
Ultimately I have massive hope for the CSF friendship and that they can all get along once this triangle business is over with. Neal may not need him as a father figure any more, but they do share people they love and that’s a start. I would really love to see how Bae escaped and have him talk about learning how to navigate from Hook when they go to leave. They’re all counting on Neal to get them home but we’re getting pieces of the puzzle at a time. It would be great to show him doing what Emma did in this episode – acknowledging who taught him that very useful thing.
It is interesting how alike the men are and how different. A lot of the skills that Neal taught Emma were probably taught to him by Hook (at least some of them likely) which is why they seem similar at times (and the stories paralleled slightly in Tallahassee) but Emma is in the process of learning how different they are too, and appreciating Hook more and more every episode and seeing him stand by his word (which is huge for her as well as sets him apart from Neal).
So I think there’s definitely hope of Hook and Neal becoming friends again. They should at least learn to get along since they’ll both be in Henry and Emma’s lives and it would be really great to see that friendship rekindled. I’d also really love to see more flashbacks of Hook with young Bae when they were getting along too (perhaps with the navigation training – all I remember is the helm stuff; I need to rewatch!). I know Neal mentioned navigation in a deleted scene on the ship with Henry, but since it’s an important point to this season I bet we’ll get a little nod somewhere, and maybe a moment of pride for Hook in learning how Bae escaped the first time / appreciation from Neal for his old friend Hook teaching him. That would be lovely.
As I’ve said, we’ve seen Neal be in a relationship with someone other than Emma but have the two of them get along fine for Henry’s sake (and I actually loved their interaction in those moments, it was much more lighthearted and fun!), and I think the same will be true once Hook is in the picture officially too. Neal will see that Emma’s happy and that should be enough and I do believe that the guys genuinely care about each other as well. I hope that comes out more as the season progresses because I need that relationship fixed as much as I need the triangle over and for CaptainSwan to happen!
But I agree – we definitely need more flashbacks to explain their shared history a bit more. We’ve only seen Bae arrive and learn a little bit from him and then flip out about Milah and decide to leave, only to be handed over. We know he lived in the cave and he somehow got off the island, but we haven’t SEEN any of that yet. But the fact that NONE of that has been brought up, even in snarky comments to Hook over Emma, makes me think he’s not as bitter over the past as some are expecting. He was WAY more reactive with Rumple and that’s the hardest relationship for him to deal with. I think maybe over time he’s realizing that with Hook he made mistakes too, but with Rumple it was all on him (one could maybe argue Neal tried to change him and it backfired, but it WAS the only deal Rumple ever broke so he had good reason to believe in him and he abandoned him – technically Neal abandoned Hook, not the other way around).
So we’ll have to wait and see! I adored Hook with young Bae though so I want them to be alright! I’ve been very pleasantly surprised in how they’ve been behaving about the whole thing (in and around the childishness/stooping to the MINE MINE MINE level of a 5 year old with a toy, but I think that will be put aside now). And like I said, they still seemed to have a playful/loving banter even after Neal found out about the kiss.
It was after that that he undermined any nice thing that Hook was trying to do to be helpful by automatically either snapping at him saying his sentimentality wasn’t needed because she has the real thing now, or mocking him not being able to adjust to modern day in the blink of an eye/hardly giving him a chance to try without just accusing him OUT LOUD IN FRONT OF EMMA of trying to make it about impressing Emma instead of getting the job done. It was Neal that made it about that, and then Hook stooped to his level when Emma was already upset at the idea of it being over that but by the end of the episode he calmed way down and Hook seems focused on the mission as well since he interrupted the TinkerFire smiles to get this show on the road.
I’m VERY curious about how this continues to play out. I do think Hook and Neal can do it though, in and around their shared love of Emma. I’ve been so fed up today because everyone keeps saying Neal was being selfless in the shadow scene because he told Emma to save herself but I coulda sworn that BOTH men did that. Neal said it first I think but Hook completely agreed with him. Correct me if I’m wrong but I was CHEERING because they actually AGREED on something for once! (And it was something selfless for sure but it wasn’t just one of them!)
I still think that moment was a very interesting staging since they kept Emma close to Hook, Hook was the one she called out for, and the candle magic somebody made a gifset of showing the parallels to when Rumple taught her how to use magic with it being about emotions and think of who you’re protecting, but then Emma said that Regina was the one who taught her how to use it so I suppose it could have just been out of complete anger at the two of them for being idiots, but she was still physically closer to Hook, called out for him IN TERROR, and Neal was way off to the side shouting for her, and then being extremely disappointed in her use of magic.
I have a feeling the magic thing will come up again in the near future, especially since in the promo, Neal is RIGHT THERE when Emma and Regina use magic so we should get more reactions out of that. My guess: he’s really not gonna like that at all and yet again, somebody that loves Emma will be disappointed with her for using her magic to try to save the people she loves. Snow is already disappointed in her / worried about what she’d be willing to do with Regina’s help because she doesn’t want it to destroy their family. Emma is doing only what is necessary and without any bloodshed, but still gets criticized for it. Hook is the only one who completely trusts her and her every decision and isn’t the least bit bothered by her using magic to save the ones she loves, even though he’s been burned by magic before.
Everyone’s opinions are completely valid and understandable from their points of view 100%. That’s what I love about Hook and Emma is that he sees her for what she is and never ceases to be amazed by it and loves it because it’s all a part of what makes her her, while others in her life don’t seem to read her well or understand how she feels and are disappointed with a major part of her: magic. It’s scary for them. They’ve been burned by it badly before too and see how quickly people have slipped to using it for evil. But Emma is the product of true love and a source of light and hope. She’s doing what she has to but in the right way and for the right reasons. She won’t let herself go as dark as Rumple or Regina with it. Hook knows and trusts that. Emma can’t change the fact that part of her very essence is pure true love magic. She can choose not to use it sure but it’s still very much a part of her.
Which is why I’ve always had an issue with Neal and Emma on that point. Neal hates magic and he has every reason to and I don’t blame him one bit. But with Emma in his life, he’s never going to get away from the thing he hates most. Now he’s kinda stuck back where he didn’t want to be because his family, all that he has, are staying there together so he can’t escape magic and he can’t walk out. But he’s very much like Henry in many ways. Magic has ruined their lives, and while they love people who are magical, it hurts them. Henry wanted it DESTROYED so that his family would stop hating each other all the time. So pairing the very essence of pure magic with someone who hates it is tough for me. Hook doesn’t seem to mind as it’s just a part of her and he believes, IN HER, but Neal has massive issues with it. Henry doesn’t love it but it doesn’t stop him from loving Regina and it won’t stop him from believing in Emma, but it’s harder for someone like Neal.
That’s one of the reasons I’m really loving the potential of TinkerFire and I’m torn on how I want that to play out. On one hand I would love for Tink to go back with them and prove to Blue that she deserves her wings and get it back and on the other, I’d love for her to have the OPTION of getting her wings back from Blue and turning it down and choose a mortal life with Neal instead. It would be very fitting for her character in multiple ways and it would have someone officially choose magic over him (which was one of the appeals of the idea of EvilFire for me since Regina is already trying to quit for Hnery and Neal would have helped her in that but now they can both be on Team Parents with Emma so it will be ok and still helpful). On the other hand I wouldn’t mind seeing Tink become a fairy again but then if she doesn’t choose to clip her wings it’ll 1) Be Nova all over again 2) Be Rumple all over again for Neal in a way, watching someone choose magic over whatever they have and 3) It would kill off yet another ship that I saw potential in that actually made Neal smile.
Forgive me for crackshipping but I like my ships to actually make each other happy instead of miserable, and everytime we see him flirt or be happy in any way, it gets shot down. It’s very upsetting and he’s been through so much. I’d love to see him start something with a clean slate and just be happy instead of constantly having the past thrown in his face which, Emma’s walls would definitely do.
It’s just excruciating to watch. Emma was trying to be a little playful with Hook (emphasis on little) when she said “well you are a pirate” and she was all little smiles and it seemed like she was just ribbing him cause OF COURSE most people would think he wouldn’t choose his friend in that situation. She LIT UP when she said he chose his friend and he was hurt that it surprised her, but when she called him a pirate it was like something inside of him died because he’s been doing so much to counteract that! Can’t wait until she can call him a pirate and have it be a term of endearment instead of a slap to him. It was bad enough when Charming said it!
*major Killian / CaptainSwan / TinkerFire / CaptainCharming / CaptainFire / CSF feels*
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Hey Kat about magic being a problem for Neal’s relationship with Emma don’t you think if it was him and Tink that same problem would be there too?
Yep – think I addressed that in the long thing I just wrote but wanted to make sure I definitely addressed this so I’ll try to make it brief.
I think it will be an issue for them if she doesn’t choose him over magic. I think Tink WILL want to prove something to Blue, and might want her wings back and that would negate it since he hates magic and I don’t think fairies can keep their wings if they choose love anyway.
BUT if she were to either prove herself to Blue and then REFUSE her wings, or get them back but eventually choose love over keeping her wings, THAT could be something beautiful. She’s lived without them for a long time and is bitter because she was so sure (and was right) that Regina and Robin were meant to be, but she’ll feel vindicated after she proves that.
She’s big on soul mates and the way they lit up seeing each other, it gave me hope that maybe her path would start in one direction and end in another. I’d love to see her prove to Blue that she was right all along but I also realllly like the appeal of a magical being giving it all up for love, ESPECIALLY for a guy whose father chose magic over him. It would be a HUGE deal for him. (And it was really really nice to see that genuine adorable smile on his face)
So I could see it going either way. There’s definitely potential for it though and I look forward to seeing if it ends up just being good friends (he needs somebody on his side that hasn’t done something awful to him) and maybe just maybe something more.
We saw the idea of a fairy and someone else with Grumpy and Nova, and she would have had to give up her wings to be with him and didn’t. So the idea of someone who has fought to get her wings back, only to have TL win out and refuse them / give them up / find out they’re not as important as they thought and they’re ok being who they are without them…would be a compelling story and Tink is just rebellious enough to do it.
I promise I don’t ship just to get rid of him! I’ve liked many an idea that didn’t work out for him but I do want him to be happy. I just don’t see how, with that much baggage, Neal and Emma could ever be completely happy and trusting and all smiles and not have this unspoken wall between them somehow (as anything other than friends/co-parents), so I want Neal to find his happiness elsewhere with someone who IS right for him, which, out of the people we know *right now* there aren’t many options.
Similar to Regina last season where we didn’t know anything about Robin Hood being her match! So there could very easily be someone else out there for him we just haven’t met yet (perhaps he needs to get over Emma before he’s even introduced to whoever it is!) but for right now, I’m really enjoying the TinkerFire interaction, anxious to know their backstory, and am at least enjoying the headcanon of:
- Sticking it to Blue for being wrong about her
- A magical creature that puts true love above all and gives up her wings
We didn’t get to see it for Nova and Grumpy which is why he stayed with them and became Grumpy in the first place. But the precedence is there that a fairy *could* give up her wings for love so I feel like we should see that eventually and if so, why not Tink? (Especially since she’s lived without them for quite some time now and is big on soul mates).
I just think it at least has potential but I definitely didn’t mean to imply that Neal shouldn’t be with Emma because she has magic so let’s throw him with an even more magical being. In both cases that I’ve shipped him remotely with a magical person, it has ALWAYS had the caveat of: this person is giving up magic and he’ll be a good influence on them to do that/reason for them to do that (with the added bonus of Tink getting to stick it to Blue if she earns her wings back and just feels vindicated now but doesn’t want to be a fairy anymore – she’s rebellious and big on soul mates, I could see it happening).
This show is just too darn shippable! I’m glad we’re finally getting some definitive answers this season on couples but it’s not fast enough to stop a gazillion ships from starting! I’ll be happy when we finally find the right ones for everyone, but for now we can but guess and my current pick for Neal is a wingless Tink.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Ah see now I could go with that, see I think Emma will embrace her magic as a part of her she can’t help it’s who she is and I don’t see her going backwards on the path she’s on. Think I could see giving up magic, especially if she found somebody she could be with. For Neal actually getting to be with someone willing to give up magic for him I think would be very moving for him to see.
So I haven’t really been a participant on here since the season began airing and very little before then too, but I’ve been reading all your comments on this thread and I must say I simply loved reading every one of them and agree with what most of you say about CS. I’ve been on board the CS ship ever since “Tallahassee” (I actually binge-watched seasons 1 and 2 in May ) but never realized how hard I shipped them and now its turned into a raging obsession with me checking the tag on tumblr every now and then and coming on here to read the posts and checking twitter for cast tweets and other spoilers. I HAVE NEVER..I repeat NEVER ever done this for any show or any fictional TV couple. CS has unleashed a manic shipper in me, that I never knew even existed, Frankly it was all hidden potential I guess ☺
Anyway, about the last episode, you guys have done such a wonderful job of analyzing each scene I don’t feel I could add anything to it. However here are few of my thoughts, sorry if turned out more long-winded than I intended!1. I thought Hook’s immediate jumping to join them in shadow hunting was more out of jealousy and not wanting Emma to be alone with Neal, which is perfectly ok. He wants to be by his woman’s side and wants to make sure the competition doesn’t get ahead.
2. He genuinely wanted to thank Neal for being understanding and was taken aback when he realized Emma hadn’t told him about their kiss. The shocked look on Neal’s face also showed that he wasn’t expecting this revelation. That said, I’m a bit upset that they made all the Hook-Neal reuniting moments about Emma. I would’ve loved some reference to something Hook had taught him or a shared moment from the past, but apart from Neal’s “Thanks, man” to Hook when he volunteers to join him I saw no remnants of the affection between these two men and we know it was there, we’ve seen genuine grief and emotion in Hook when he talked about Neal to Emma (“Enough to know I miss him too” “he got that from his mother” “he was an apt pupil” “We spent some time together”), but now everything is all being rivals in love. Neal’s snarky comment to Hook about the cutlass as a keepsake and that Emma wouldn’t need it anymore since she has him now was really telling where these two stand with each other. I was really hoping Neal would ask Hook what he was doing back in Neverland, helping them find Henry. He would’ve had to realize that Hook has no vested interest here, Henry means nothing to him and he’s actually given up his revenge and taken his sworn enemy on board his beloved ship to bring them here. That’s something worth addressing and apart from 3X01 when we hear Hook say to Regina “here I am sailing back into NL with him as my guest of honour” there’s been no mention of it at all.
3. The revelation. Okay, I admit this confuses a little bit out of me, Maybe you guys can help. Emma stops him to ask what’s up with him and Neal and he tells her he assumed she’d told him about them, their kiss. And she asks him why he’d assume something like that. And then he gets this pained look in his eyes when he says “ Because I was hoping it meant something”. Up until this point he has no reason to hope he has any chance with her. In the last episode, we saw the bleak look in his eyes when he hears Neal tell her he’d never stop fighting for her. I guess he thinks whatever happened between him and Emma happened because she thought Neal was dead and now that Neal was back, she’d choose him. But then she deflects..doesn’t right out say the kiss didn’t mean anything but turns the topic around back to him, his openness and selflessness in revealing the truth about Neal and the fact that he didn’t have to. That was a HUGE moment. It told us she realized he didn’t have to tell them and that Pan had told him first because he’d wanted to offer him a deal. She’s insightful, our Emma! But she’s surprised he didn’t take Pan’s deal (she hasn’t realized this is the 2nd deal he hasn’t taken) and chose instead to reveal the truth. Again that hurt look in his eyes (I swear Colin kills me everytime with his puppy face), when he says “Does that surprise you?” Because of course, after everything he’s done so far, putting her and her quest for Henry first, she’s still surprised by him and his intentions. Then her statement justifying why she feels that way “You’re a pirate” and you can see the hurt look in his eyes when he looks down and smiles a sad smile, (yes I’m a pirate, I will always be one, but don’t you see I’m trying to change, can’t you see I’m doing it all for you?) he doesn’t shy away from who he is, but is pained that she still sees him the way he was rather than his changed self.
4. In the next moment his entire demeanor changes. He moves closer to her and talks about good form and avers that he will win her heart and when he does it will be because she wants it too. This moment took my breath away because it had everything. It was THE most romantic moment between them and Emma’s reaction spoke volumes about how his speech affected her. Her soft gasp when he moves in, her eyes fluttering, her gaze flickering from his lips to eyes and back, her hair gently blowing in the breeze (his too) ..its as if time stood still for them (these two idiots reduce me to a blithering babbling mess) and her breathy whisper of “This is not a contest Hook” and her soft smile when she says that. All PERFECTION. I love the sexual tension between these just as much as the bantering and the understanding because its such an essential component in a relationship.
5. Okay what confuses me is this: Hook really had no reason to think he had a fighting chance with her. He believed in the last episode after they found Neal and he heard his comment about fighting for her that she would pick him and that she had told him about them. But she hadn’t, so he knew that wasn’t her darkest secret. But then what was? And why would he assume Neal heard his secret when he didn’t hear Emma’s? And why would the fact that she hadn’t told Neal about them give him hope, especially when he says to her that he thought she’d have told him because he was hoping it meant something to her. The fact that she didn’t could mean it didn’t (mean something that is). And all through we’ve seen Emma reiterating that it was just a kiss. And Hook too thinks if it was important enough to her, she’d have confessed about it to Neal. She didn’t. He probably realizes that things are not all hunky-dory between them (Else why would Neal make that comment about never stopping fighting for her), but he doesn’t know what. Then she thanks him and is surprised that he did what he did for a friend (even if he’s his rival in love), putting him first, refusing whatever convoluted deal Pan offered him and did the honorable thing although he’s a pirate. Again no apparent encouragement. Yet he moves in. And says he WILL win her heart. That she WILL want him. And says it with confidence. Not cockiness, but sincerity and honesty. (I love that he is so OPEN and HONEST with her. He is completely trusting her with his heart and is not afraid to do so, even though his heart might be crushed beyond repair). Where in the hell does he get this confidence? Why does he think he has a fighting chance with her? That she will pick him instead of Neal. He has no intention of backing away, although in 3X06 we saw a different body language, defeated, unsure, accepting. But here we see a whole new demeanor. Anyone offer any explanation on this? I guess I feel that his confidence stems from his own overwhelming love for her. He knows its strong, its pure, its true and he knows she’s not indifferent to him. This is Emma Swan, she could’ve totally shut him down when he talked about winning her heart, but she didn’t. All she said is that it wasn’t a contest. Which he insisted it was and that she would have to choose. I actually liked that he was being a bit pushy here, because Emma needs pushing. She likes to bury her feelings and deflect but that’s not what he wants. He wants her to face up to the situation. Yes, He recognizes that rescuing Henry is her priority number one, but after that “the fun begins” (I swear I melted into a puddle when Colin said those lines especially with that very suggestive smile; I can’t wait for them to get back to SB and for the “fun” to begin)
6. Hook said everything right in this scene. I especially loved when Emma looks up to him for reassurance, so openly vulnerable and his quiet confidence and faith when he says “I have yet to see you fail” (*Excuse me while I go flail and sob over the epicness of my ship*). Its my favorite moment in the scene. It says so much about their relationship and how much it has progressed. It also tells us Emma needs someone like Killian by her side, to have faith and belief in her, to completely trust her and to reaffirm that faith in her abilities by boosting her confidence. She needs an equal, a partner, a friend, an ally, a comrade, call it what you will. But she needs something more than what Henry (though he will always be first) and her parents (though they love her very much) can give her. It’s good to see Emma being open and vulnerable before him. He made himself vulnerable to her when he made his confession, opened his heart and laid it bare before her and now told her that he’d WIN her (interesting choice of words there I thought. Killian says WIN, which is so different from Neal’s talking about fighting. The intent maybe the same, but the manner in which it is conveyed makes all the difference)
7. Also can I say how much I hated the lighter scene and two 200 +year old guys acting like 5 year olds? I understand the need to set it up like the guys were competing for Emma and for Emma to call them out on it and emphasize that there’s only room in her life for Henry right now, but couldn’t they have approached it differently? I mean, two grown men, both knowing the gravity of the situation they’re in, one with his kid’s life on the line, and the other who’s been doing the honorable thing up until now suddenly turn around and start behaving like complete idiots? If they had to have some sort of disagreement I’d rather it was a verbal argument and Emma yelling at them later for it. But I guess that was a way for them to show us the ridiculousness of the love triangle and make us cringe at how juvenile they were being and take off our shipper goggles and say, “Back off, both of you, Emma doesn’t need either of you. She is badass enough to do this on her own”. If any of us, with our ship-centric myopic vision were thinking its Hook or Neal that’s helping her and she couldn’t have done this without either of them, we were wrong. This is Emma Swan, she’s the heroine. She gets shit done. All right, point taken. But did you really have to reduce two characters to mindless idiots to make that point?
8. But I loved Killian’s honesty yet again here. “Its not the lighter we were fighting over, love”. He’s not letting her go that easy. He’s not afraid to spell it out for her. He can spare her feelings when required yes, but honesty and openness is so important. We saw what it did to Snow when she discovered Charming hadn’t been upfront with her. She told him he didn’t believe in them. Love is sacrifice, but its also truth.
9. Okay, the reaction Emma had when the shadow grabbed Hook and Neal and the gut-wrenching way in which she screamed out Hook’s name really was the clincher. I don’t think there can be any doubt who she’s gonna pick now. And the expression on her face after they’re safe and she’s watching Hook recover, dust himself off and stand, is one of wonder, amazement and fear. She may have been answering Neal about the magic, but she looked at Hook. And in that moment she probably realized how terrified she’d been at the thought of losing him. And that she has feelings for him deeper that she’s let herself acknowledge. I don’t know if I’m over-thinking this, maybe some of you could tell me differently?
10. Tink and Bae.. yes I did see a spark in Tink’s eyes when she saw Neal and the smile on Neal’s face was genuine. There is affection there. But is there something else? I don’t know. I don’t know if I ship them. But I do want Neal to be happy. Except I know that he and Emma won’t make each other happy. I love the point someone here made that Emma never really knew the real Neal and Neal doesn’t know Emma at all. And his surprise at her magic was a huge hint. He seemed taken aback and entirely unsure how he felt about watching her do magic. Knowing his hatred for magic and how its screwed up his life, I wasn’t surprised at all when his next words to Emma were about Henry and him being all there is between them.
11. The next episode I guess will focus less on the love triangle (I’m guessing they ridiculed it for that very reason) and more on the mission. But did anyone notice Emma pulling on Hook’s arm in the promo? (Yayy I’m so excited!)
I will never cease to be amazed that people read my long ridiculous posts! Thank you!
In answer to one of your questions, I think that Hook didn’t really think he had a chance with Emma when he revealed his secret but since then a couple of things have happened:
- Hook heard Neal say that he’d fight for Emma which means…they’re not together (also there was just a hug, no kisses or grand declarations and no hanging around each other afterwards – Emma looked uncomfortable, they both looked sad, and Neal walked off – not exactly a big lovely reunion and we know Hook witnessed this)
- Hook’s conversation with Neal – he thought that Neal heard him basically reveal that he’s in love with Emma so he was thanking him for not freaking out about that/the kiss (which he also mentioned as part of the secret) only to find out that Emma hadn’t mentioned it at all! – Initially he is very hurt by this (the pain in his voice *sobs*) but then it’s like a little lightswitch goes on, where he suddenly realizes that she wasn’t trying to get a clean slate with Neal. She could easily have said she kissed Hook but it didn’t mean anything and please don’t hold it against me because I thought you were dead, but she didn’t feel the need to.
This last point is shown again later when she asks Hook why Neal’s acting like that and he tells her he thought Neal heard him say they kissed and she got upset as to why he might think she had bothered to tell him. I really think that he knows her well enough to know that had she wanted to dive back into something with Neal, she WOULD have told him and the fact that she didn’t, again that she wasn’t trying for a clean slate ON TOP OF the fact that it didn’t look like a happy reunion to begin with, gave him reason to hope.
And now that he does have hope, he’s in this completely. He’s got a shot and he’s not going to step aside until EMMA tells him to. Just like it didn’t matter what Charming had to say about it. Hook’s right – until Emma makes a CHOICE – and she will eventually have to – both guys are gonna fight for her.
Hook did kinda push himself in a little bit and join them on shadow duty (turns out she didn’t really need either one of them but still, probably best not to wander around alone), and of course it was because he doesn’t want Neal left alone with her! He doesn’t want to give up a chance to continue proving to her that he’s right for her!
Neal had no reason to suspect anything at that point cause his old friend had a point (surprised he didn’t pick up on the hastiness of him joining them but he may have thought maybe he just doesn’t want to get stuck with Snow and Charming who were clearly fighting right then or something) and Hook had a point about it not hurting to have more than one person there that has experience to help.
It was surprising we didn’t get any “what are you doing back in NL” moments but the revelation about Emma kinda took the majority of screentime for this episode, so we were left with very few NICE CaptainFire moments to work with. It was nice for Neal to tell Hook thanks for offering to help at the beginning and like I said earlier, he’s not behaving toward him like he did when Rumple came back into his life so I have hope (I have hope for Rumple & Neal too but they have farther to go).
I think at some point we’ll get just the two of them working together on something. No idea what given what we know right now, but I feel like if they can focus and work together to help Emma or save Henry or deal with goodness knows what after all of that mess, then they’ll get around to mending those fences.
I’d like to think both guys ultimately want Emma to be happy, and they do care about each other, so while it will be excruciating for one of them, the other will ultimately both understand and still be a part of the others’ life as well as Henry’s. So I do think we’ll eventually get that conversation of “You came here for Emma, didn’t you?” kind of moment from Neal to Hook.
They need it, desperately. Neal reacted badly after a momentary good moment of realizing that Hook was 1) sentimental and 2) cared about him enough to have his sword to give to Emma thinking she needed it in memory of Neal. I think it touched him for about 2.5 seconds and then he lashed out about it because he went back to fight mode and he doesn’t know what to think because they have trust issues between them from the past too (which again, we need way more info on to see how they really left things in NL vs what we know right now).
I would love love love for them to talk by themselves like Hook and Charming did and have Neal come to the realization that they’re in this for the same thing and they need to work together so that they can accomplish this and get everyone they care about safe. Hook has never questioned whether Neal cared about Emma, even realizing that he must be the guy that made Emma the broken woman he met in the EF, since he’s Henry’s father and Emma was deeply wounded by a past love and is clearly on her own now. He, like CSers, has never questioned that or pretended it didn’t exist.
When he met Emma, Neal was not in the picture and he didn’t know who that was. He didn’t know through all of their interaction until literally after he thought Neal was dead. Then it was a shared bond between him and Emma but not something to stop him from having feelings for her because he had them before he knew they shared a past, and after he was gone what difference did it make because it doesn’t change anything.
Now he’s in this completely and Neal pops back up and it hurts him because he does care about him a great deal and it makes this entire situation completely awkward. As far as I’m concerned, other than a few massive apologies here and there, nobody owes anybody anything. They are all adults and entitled to love whomever they love. I do believe CSF can repair themselves and I look forward to watching that happen way more than dealing with the stupid non-triangle. I don’t consider it character growth for any character to back away from what they want because they feel like they owe somebody else something. Just no. They owe it to themselves to say what they feel and what they want and are more than entitled to hope that they get that said in return but nobody owes it to them to feel the same way they do.
Hook is making it very clear that he genuinely loves Emma and will continue to do the things that he’s been doing that prove that every step of the way. Nobody is perfect. They all slip up now and then and Hook is no exception. This is new for him too since he never thought he’d love again. This is a broken man who was basically willing to die if that meant revenge on the man who killed Milah, and finally now has something to fight for; to live for. He’s becoming the best version of himself again after years in the depths of despair and that’s thanks to Emma.
Until that’s acknowledged between Hook and Neal, I don’t know where we go from here. Neal needs to see that this isn’t just some competition to Hook, that he genuinely DOES and CAN care about somebody. Bae thought he only cared about himself and his revenge and it’s likely Neal has the same fears. Like maybe Hook is playing some game and Emma will get hurt just like he did, only he doesn’t realize that Hook genuinely loves him and wanted him to stay so that they could be a family and he was wounded when he left. It’s taken SO LONG for Hook to come around to that mentality again and he’s changed because of Emma.
I want Neal to have a similar moment with Hook/Emma that he had with Rumple awhile back after hearing his phone conversation with Belle. Seeing that side that can care and wants to be good. He’s doubting it right now because of Pan and the prophecy and sadly Rumple couldn’t prove anything to Neal because he tried to do the right thing and send the dagger away so Pan couldn’t control him, but he has genuinely changed for the better and Belle brings out the best in him. So I need Neal to see that Hook is a changed man as well, and that Emma has managed to bring out the best in him too.
It goes both ways, and Neal needs to see that Hook cares about HIM too and that he’s not just some random guy that Hook wants to walk all over. It’s not about that. But not standing up and saying you have feelings for someone and hiding it is just as bad. Walking away is the same as making the choice for them and that’s not fair to them. What do people want Hook to do? STOP FEELING something for Emma and just walk away so that Neal can be with her all the time so that she thinks Hook doesn’t care about her anymore and therefore she might as well choose Neal cause at least he wants her? No!
Both men have behaved badly but Hook should only back off when EMMA wants him to. He thought they were going off to some grand reunion and it didn’t happen. He thought Neal was being extremely kind considering everything only to find out that they obviously weren’t back together and he didn’t even know about Hook and Emma. Of course he thinks he’s got a chance now! Why should he walk away and deny his feelings and essentially choose FOR Emma? Taking away an option is almost as bad as forcing an outcome.
Hook was very very clear in his statement (which admittedly was made in very close quarters but she never bothered to walk away from it like she does with everyone else either so if it doesn’t bother HER it shouldn’t bother US). He will win her, with no trickery, and when he does it will be because she wants him. HER CHOICE, choosing for the RIGHT REASONS, and that in choosing him, it’s because she WANTS TO. Therefore he’s so horrible for her a;slkjdfd;lsak. Seriously? Saying you’re interested is not a crime. Plus he completely believes in her and she goes to him for reassurance. He is her source of strength, even when she’s angry with him at times (and I don’t care what he said in 3×01, he totally fancies her when she’s angry too – he likes feisty women that can fight for THEMSELVES!) Plus it’s adorable that he thinks she’s cute even when she’s angry with him.
It was appropriate that happened in this episode too because we also saw a mini-fight/make-up for Snowing as well, talking about believing in each other and Snow needing Charming to believe in her and watching Hook tell Emma how much he believes in her.
PS: How awesome was it to hear Charming call her Snow for once? It’s about time!
So many incredible CS moments in this episode! I swear the season just gets better and better!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Can I just say how tired I am already of “the pirate thing.”
Yeah, I get that pirates are bad and all but I feel like the constant emphasis on it is getting old. Especially since no one seemed to ever care that it doesn’t make a bit of sense that Princess Snow White ended up marrying a shepherd. A shepherd whose Storybrook job is working at the Animal Shelter. Princess Snow White marries a guy who shovels animal animal feces for a living and we never hear a word about how that aspect of their relationship makes them an unlikely match because of the true love thing. But with CS it’s all about the “pirate thing.”
It especially bothers me when Charming tosses it around. You don’t think Killian is good enough for your daughter? He is the Captain of a ship. You were good enough for a Princess? You dealt with animal dung.
Can the writers please let everyone get over this so we can move on?
Can I just say how tired I am already of “the pirate thing.” Yeah, I get that pirates are bad and all but I feel like the constant emphasis on it is getting old. Especially since no one seemed to ever care that it doesn’t make a bit of sense that Princess Snow White ended up marrying a shepherd. A shepherd whose Storybrook job is working at the Animal Shelter. Princess Snow White marries a guy who shovels animal animal feces for a living and we never hear a word about how that aspect of their relationship makes them an unlikely match because of the true love thing. But with CS it’s all about the “pirate thing.” It especially bothers me when Charming tosses it around. You don’t think Killian is good enough for your daughter? He is the Captain of a ship. You were good enough for a Princess? You dealt with animal dung. Can the writers please let everyone get over this so we can move on?
I still want more Captain Hook. I’m not sure I can ever get enough. Colin O’Donoghue has a cult following, and it’s for a reason. Yeah, he’s a good actor, but he can thank Once Upon A Time for his success because Hook works. His character touches on what so many people want when they watch Once Upon A Time. Not just a story, but his. Not just anybody, but him.
In other words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC5E8ie2pdM
My tumblr page is http://cs-in-tn.tumblr.com/
I’m thoroughly confused now.
I think what was meant was that they were tired of having the “pirate thing” thrown in his face repeatedly because he’s so much more than that! Charming has (I think) gotten past it and I really don’t think Emma meant it in a bad way, just saying that there is that pirate reputation but she almost had a small smile on her face and then it fell apart because once again, someone was saying he was a pirate and it hurt him. I look forward to the day when it’s more a term of endearment!
It was definitely not a get rid of Hook comment! Not by a long shot. I love the captain and hope he always retains some of that side too (and I think he will for sure). Just remember: when Emma was spelling out everybody’s strengths at the beginning of the season she included hero and villain…and pirate (which not only singled him out but also listed him as important and vital to the mission!) The thing that was quoted was merely showing how painful it must be for Hook to be told he’s not good enough for Emma because he’s a pirate, especially when it comes from Charming who was once put down for being a shepherd and he still got Snow who was a princess.
Hook definitely has a huge following and well-deserved at that. Colin is incredible and never ceases to amaze me at the depths of emotion he conveys!
Sorry if I completely misunderstood the reaction to that quote but I was very confused! We love Hook! (And Killian <3)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I’m thoroughly confused now. I think what was meant was that they were tired of having the “pirate thing” thrown in his face repeatedly because he’s so much more than that! Charming has (I think) gotten past it and I really don’t think Emma meant it in a bad way, just saying that there is that pirate reputation but she almost had a small smile on her face and then it fell apart because once again, someone was saying he was a pirate and it hurt him. I look forward to the day when it’s more a term of endearment! It was definitely not a get rid of Hook comment! Not by a long shot. I love the captain and hope he always retains some of that side too (and I think he will for sure). Just remember: when Emma was spelling out everybody’s strengths at the beginning of the season she included hero and villain…and pirate (which not only singled him out but also listed him as important and vital to the mission!) The thing that was quoted was merely showing how painful it must be for Hook to be told he’s not good enough for Emma because he’s a pirate, especially when it comes from Charming who was once put down for being a shepherd and he still got Snow who was a princess. Hook definitely has a huge following and well-deserved at that. Colin is incredible and never ceases to amaze me at the depths of emotion he conveys! Sorry if I completely misunderstood the reaction to that quote but I was very confused! We love Hook! (And Killian <3) [/quote]
I might have misunderstood the post I responded to, but you are quite right!
My tumblr page is http://cs-in-tn.tumblr.com/
In answer to one of your questions, I think that Hook didn’t really think he had a chance with Emma when he revealed his secret but since then a couple of things have happened:
- Hook heard Neal say that he’d fight for Emma which means…they’re not together (also there was just a hug, no kisses or grand declarations and no hanging around each other afterwards – Emma looked uncomfortable, they both looked sad, and Neal walked off – not exactly a big lovely reunion and we know Hook witnessed this)
- Hook’s conversation with Neal – he thought that Neal heard him basically reveal that he’s in love with Emma so he was thanking him for not freaking out about that/the kiss (which he also mentioned as part of the secret) only to find out that Emma hadn’t mentioned it at all! – Initially he is very hurt by this (the pain in his voice *sobs*) but then it’s like a little lightswitch goes on, where he suddenly realizes that she wasn’t trying to get a clean slate with Neal. She could easily have said she kissed Hook but it didn’t mean anything and please don’t hold it against me because I thought you were dead, but she didn’t feel the need to.
This last point is shown again later when she asks Hook why Neal’s acting like that and he tells her he thought Neal heard him say they kissed and she got upset as to why he might think she had bothered to tell him. I really think that he knows her well enough to know that had she wanted to dive back into something with Neal, she WOULD have told him and the fact that she didn’t, again that she wasn’t trying for a clean slate ON TOP OF the fact that it didn’t look like a happy reunion to begin with, gave him reason to hope.
And now that he does have hope, he’s in this completely. He’s got a shot and he’s not going to step aside until EMMA tells him to. Just like it didn’t matter what Charming had to say about it. Hook’s right – until Emma makes a CHOICE – and she will eventually have to – both guys are gonna fight for her.
@Mystery Kat, thank you for your response. It actually explains quite nicely why Killian might have been feeling the way he was.
And this tumblr user summed it up perfectly
Pay attention to Emma’s wording.
“I realize you could’ve kept Pan’s information to yourself.”
To himself. She’s saying…he could’ve been selfish. But he wasn’t. He put her and Neal first, before his own happiness.
This is the moment that gives Hook his confidence back. Emma asked Hook why he assumed Emma told Neal about the kiss, and he said it was because he was hoping it meant something. But what really meant something to Emma was his selflessness; his honor. The very definitive quality about his true self that he’s trying so hard to regain.
That’s what she sees. And that’s what confirms Hook’s belief in their love. What leads to this speech:
When I win your heart, Emma, and I will win it, it’ll not be because of any trickery. It’ll be because you want me”
Hook says this because he sees that Emma sees him.
Perfect explanation!
Here’s the link
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