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Neal wouldn’t want to be 14 again anyway because of Henry. Thanks for answering Eala, but how do you explain Hook’s sulkiness when Emma told BOTH him and Neal that the person she would choose is Henry. I agree Hook was right when he said Emma had to choose (It wouldn’t be fair for either man to be strung along)yet it did seem like he assumed Emma would end up picking him over Neal especially when he uses phrases like “When I win” and “I will win” Also Hook’s behaviour towards Neal was very offish considering Hook is supposed to “care” for Neal. It seemed like Hook was constantly trying to assert his dominance over Neal and prove to Emma that he was the “better man” but not in the good way. It’s like Hook was trying to prove his manliness to Emma. Hook with his attitude and behaviour this episode reminded me of Gaston from Disney’s Beauty and the Beast. What are your thoughts, Eala?
I know that your question is directed at Eala (who gives AWESOME answers, btw) , but I thought I’d give my opinion. I think Hook’s “assumption” that Emma would choose him over Neal was nothing more than innocent confidence. Hook cares for Emma deeply and sees her as an equal. He would never (nor COULD he ever) force her to do anything. He’s very perceptive when it comes to her and could see that she is becoming more open to him, so that gave him the confidence to make those statements. I don’t see Hook as a Gaston because Gaston is VERY self-centered, and we have seen that Hook is the complete opposite of that so far this season.
In regards to Neal, I think Hook cares for him a lot! However, there is so much going on in Neverland right now and not a lot of time to process complex emotions. Hook wasn’t expecting Neal to be alive either. His mission so far has been save Henry first, then pursue Emma. But when they heard about Neal being alive, that added another element that he wasn’t expecting. It might have been too much for him to process at the moment. Neal is older and doesn’t want to be known as “Bae” anymore, so maybe it’s hard for Hook to see him as that young boy he cared so much for. Still, I think Neal does mean something to Hook and I think we’ll get to some nice moments between them in the future, even if it seems weird right now.
[adrotate group="5"]Thanks for answering Eala, but how do you explain Hook’s sulkiness when Emma told BOTH him and Neal that the person she would choose is Henry.
Lol, personally, I didn’t read that as sulkiness. I don’t know what my shipmates would say (thoughts anyone?) but to me it looked as though Killian was kicking himself. He was annoyed at himself for nearly having lost their chance to catch the shadow, just like Neal was. Neal was very contrite (points to him for that) but Killian isn’t a man who allows himself to be vulnerable around just anybody (the cave scene was an anomaly) so there is no way he would apologise in front of Neal and allow himself to be vulnerable that way. The only person Killian allows himself to be vulnerable with is Emma. He’s flawed yes, he’s human.
This is not a man prone to sulkiness. This is a man, who, just like Emma, tamps down on his feelings. And he KNOWS she would choose Henry, she had just told him so – “The only thing I have to choose, is the best way to get my son back”. That’s pretty clear to me.
I agree Hook was right when he said Emma had to choose (It wouldn’t be fair for either man to be strung along)yet it did seem like he assumed Emma would end up picking him over Neal especially when he uses phrases like “When I win” and “I will win”
One of the big themes of this season is belief. And Killian? Believes in their love. He knows his feelings aren’t one sided. He knows. He truly believes that Emma will pick him. It’s only a matter of her moving past Neal, and letting down her walls. It’s not about taking away her choice in the slightest. But he doesn’t doubt their love, and that, to me, is a HUGE Snowing shout-out.
Also Hook’s behaviour towards Neal was very offish considering Hook is supposed to “care” for Neal. It seemed like Hook was constantly trying to assert his dominance over Neal and prove to Emma that he was the “better man” but not in the good way. It’s like Hook was trying to prove his manliness to Emma.
Lol, to be honest, both Killian AND Neal acted ridiculously in that episode. Neal cares for Killian too, I thought that it was pretty obvious that they both care for each other – their was affectionate banter there IMO. But I have a feeling that lighter scene was A+E trying to show how ridiculous the “love triangle” is.
And IMO Killian doesn’t NEED to prove his manliness to Emma. He’s more than man enough, I think all of his past actions, both good and bad, have shown that.
Killian doesn’t need to prove to Emma that he is “the better man”. All he needs to prove to Emma is that he will put her happiness above all else. Which is what he’s been doing, consistently, throughout season 3.
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
who gives AWESOME answers, btw
*Blushes* aw thanks! Your answers are also awesome!!! 😉
I think Hook’s “assumption” that Emma would choose him over Neal was nothing more than innocent confidence.
YES.
Neal is older and doesn’t want to be known as ”Bae” anymore, so maybe it’s hard for Hook to see him as that young boy he cared so much for.
Yes, exactly this. Because just like we find it hard to connect Bae and Neal? I think Killian does too. Because Killian knew that Bae came to NL to save the Darlings. But he has to have deduced by now that Neal is the reason for Emma’s trust issues.
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
I thought Hook’s “sulkiness” was kind of a moment where he realized he was doing pretty well for himself before he ended up squabbling with Neal over the lighter so he was probably just kicking himself for acting so foolishly.
I’m happy to hear your opinion oncemusicfan, I’m happy to hear everyone’s opinion on this little debate.
For me this episode actually put me off CaptainSwan whereas before I was indecisive between CS and SF. I liked Hook’s character in episodes 1-4, 5 I didn’t really care for his backstory- that whole episode felt flat for me, episode 6 was better with Hook immediately revealing the information about Neal on the island. Season 2 I was generally anti-Hook because of the way he treated Belle and Rumple (My two favourite characters) but season 3 I was open to the possibility of CaptainSwan because Hook had almost kind of proven himself as a plausible love interest for Emma. However, this episode, it felt like he kind of went back to season 2 Hook and it wasn’t nice. Of course my opinion of Hook could change again next week but I didn’t like what I saw of him in 307.
Thoughts?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI’m just interested in the CS shipper view of this, rather than trying to cause trouble. I’ve seen in this thread that it’s believed that a theme of CS is choice. How is Hook telling Emma that “WHEN he wins her heart” and “He WILL win it” giving Emma any semblance of choice in the matter?
I completely get why this bugs some people so I will try by best to answer your question!
Yes he is confident, just as confident in the fact that he will be her choice as he is in her ability to save Henry. But what he is telling her is that this silliness with him and Neal won’t end until she makes a choice because until that moment, neither is going to stop or give up hope. It’s a FACT that they won’t stop trying until she actually makes a CHOICE.
He is extremely confident that he WILL be her choice but he makes a point of saying that when she chooses him (which he believes she will) it won’t be because of him doing something underhanded like keeping information to himself that she just thanked him for not doing (she thanked him for risking his chance by telling them about Neal basically – appreciating the selflessness of that action), and that when she chooses him it will be because she wants to, not because of any manipulation.
Hook tests things by getting in close – it’s a dance to see if the person you’re interested in is interested at all. Most people back up from those they’re not comfortable with and sometimes even ones they are a bit, but Emma never backs away from him. It doesn’t bother her (at least in a bad way) that he’s that close, and she doesn’t shut him down or walk away in this moment like we’ve seen her do in the past. She wants to hear what he has to say.
There were many many opportunities after he said that line that she could have shut him down right then and there. She could have mocked his confidence with something like “what makes you so sure?” she could have told them both to knock it off right then, she could have told him it’s not going to happen, any of a number of things. But she didn’t. She didn’t seem to mind that conversation or his closeness at all.
I completely understand why some people get offended when he gets in close and makes grand statements like that but it’s also him taking his shot to make sure she knows he’s in this and means it when he says he wants a chance. Could it have been done better? Sure. Could the men have acted like grown ups this entire episode? Sure. Finding love and then having to fight for it on top of that is making them both act childish at times.
But pointing out the facts when she asks a question and saying that eventually she’ll have to CHOOSE (he specifically tells her SHE will have to choose), and then believing in that and showing he believes in that AS MUCH AS he believes in her which has been unwavering, shows her he means it.
If Emma doesn’t want the attention she’ll push someone away and we’ve even seen her do that to Hook before in the cave. If she doesn’t have a problem with it and his closeness, I’m not sure why we should be offended for her and many of us actually love the fact that he’s direct about it and lays it out like that. Because the guys won’t stop fighting for her until she makes a choice. It’s why later in the episode she tells them she chooses Henry because she can’t take the childishness anymore – they have a mission to do.
Hook told her in all of that that he totally gets that Henry comes first and that after that is when things really get started. She could have shut him down there AGAIN and instead of dealing with him/any potential chance he has (which she could have just said nope, not gonna happen and ended it), she marvels at his unwavering faith in her and focuses on that instead.
Confidence can be disconcerting to people and I totally see how that scene could have backfired to many who were on the fence / on the opposing side, but his confidence that he would eventually be her choice isn’t the worst thing ever. He didn’t say “choose right now” and he didn’t say “I’ll have you no matter what.” He also made a point of saying it was her HEART that he wanted. He wants it to MEAN SOMETHING like the kiss meant something to him. Without that, it is meaningless and it shows that he really does want her and not just some fling. It isn’t a contest to add a notch to the bedpost (and he’s been loyal to Milah’s memory for centuries). It’s about Emma and his faith that when everything is said and done, she will pick him and it will be because she wants to.
He was hurt when Emma doubted his good intentions when he said he chose to tell her about Neal because he considers him an old friend. It surprised her and he was hurt by that. It knocked him back into a corner which made him say that he won’t win her over in that way and he knows it. That playing underhanded like that isn’t what’s going to make her want to be with him. He’s been slowly winning her over all season by being more like Killian than Hook in most situations and he’s saying he’s going to continue that. It’s like what Rumple said about Belle – she makes him want to be the best version of himself and we’ve seen that with Hook mostly for S3 (BOTH guys reverted a little in this episode by being childish and reacting snappily and going about things the wrong way).
So I get the confusion but it is still a matter of choice. The captain is just…very confident. But the fact that he downright told her she would have to choose in order to stop all this nonsense is just that – a fact. It’s still her choice and if she were offended by his confidence she coulda knocked him back or said something about it being her choice not his but she didn’t react to that because he WAS saying it was her choice, and that he was confident she’d choose him.
Some see Hook as off-putting but Emma’s body-language suggests that she isn’t one of them. When he was completely in the Hook facade, she was rolling her eyes at him all the time and side-stepping him and his innuendos even though she wanted to trust him. Now he’s been proving himself and getting closer and closer to her and it’s still about her choice (like with the kiss – of course he was hoping for something but usually she rolls her eyes and walk away and she made it perfectly clear that she didn’t feel like she HAD to kiss him to thank him because she already had. He moved in close – somebody has to before a kiss might happen! – but then he waited and let HER decide whether to walk away or do something. He didn’t have her trapped. She’s tough & shuts things down when she doesn’t want to deal with it but she kissed him and that was no thank you kiss – and that was after flirting and smiling a bit).
So I do still consider choice a CS theme, absolutely. He’ll make his intentions known and get in close but he waits for her to do something. He lets it ultimately be her choice, and he said as much (just in a way that offends some people). At the end of the day it doesn’t really matter what any of us think because it will be Emma’s choice and what she feels comfortable with and wants (and that’s basically what he said – common sense really, that if she picks him it’ll be because she wants him; he just was a bit more confident than “if” is all).
I find it really offensive what I’ve been seeing the last couple of days because suddenly so many people (I’ve seen a lot of this out in the wilds as RG calls it and it makes me sick) are sending such hate toward Hook for being open and honest with her and saying he’s being written as the worst kind of man that women should stay away from but his arc this year is “Believe a pirate can be a hero” and then bringing up the “hero’s journey” in the past with Charming asking if he’s ready to be a hero, and watching him genuinely learn to move on from Milah and Emma being his hope and continuing to do the non-selfish things. He’s completely devoted to her but will do basically whatever she asks of him, and it’s insulting as a woman to be told “you’re romanticizing him, you should stay away from guys like this” – yet watch the same people fawn over rumple (as an extreme example – I love him too!).
It’s just…extremely upsetting. We’re all more than entitled to our own personal tastes and some of us actually love that Hook is so open and honest and gets in close but doesn’t push things. He tells her what’s on his mind and waits for her to do something about which sometimes is to walk off and others is to kiss him. *Most* people love Han & Leia and he was way more pushy with their kiss but people cheer over that, yet Hook says something remotely confident or tells her outright what he wants instead of playing games and we should be offended on her behalf when he waits for her to make a move. I’m sick of it. Emma can take care of herself and she’s proven that time and time again. There’s no way she can’t handle a pirate who is literally a puppy dog when she asks him to do something. She’s walked away from him before but she stayed firmly in place and reacted to what she felt was important out of all that right now and didn’t seem the least bit like her choice had been made for her because it hasn’t (and she would have reacted badly and strongly if she felt like he wasn’t telling her she ultimately had a choice because that’s who she is).
She is a strong independent woman who from Season1 we’ve known is someone who doesn’t take nonsense like that. She is her own person and can make up her own mind. She stands up and puts people in their place when they’re bothering her and she didn’t react to any of that but focused on the fact that he had been SELFLESS when as she pointed out he easily could have kept the information to himself and tried to further his relationship with her before knowing Neal was alive but she appreciated that in him. After he said everything else, she latched on to his unwavering belief in her which is a huge deal for her.
She’s not a dainty little flower, she’s a tough woman. I fully trust that if somebody gets too close for comfort and starts making her feel like she doesn’t have a choice in a matter? She’s gonna push back and start a fight about it. Emma DOES NOT PUT UP with stuff like that. She pushes back. She wouldn’t have let him stand that closely if she had a problem with it. In fact it would have made MORE sense to keep some distance because of the triangle situation, instead of having Neal walk back into frame with them standing that close (which probably didn’t help for him at all).
She moves when she doesn’t want to be there. She shuts things down when she feels threatened and she is big big big on choice. Her entire life has basically been manipulated and only now is she getting to really choose how things go down. So based on her reactions to all of it and how many of us took it as well, he was extremely confident in saying that he believes it’s a when, not an if situation, but she didn’t even mock that. He still said it was her choice and why he believes that she will choose him and it will be because she wants him (which…again, common sense, I would hope she wants whoever she chooses!), but I didn’t find it offensive. His honesty is refreshing even if he is over confident and I probably would have said something to that affect had I been in her shoes.
He’s got a lot to lose in this situation and as we’ve seen this season with many storylines, NOT saying something is usually what keeps people apart. He’s making sure that she knows he’s in this and it’s real for him. He genuinely thought in the cave that he was leading her back to the man everyone said she loved and he’s seeing that there’s a crack in the door. That he might stand a chance and this is something that means a LOT to him. If he weren’t confident in himself? He’d blow it for sure. It’s hard to convince someone you’re right for them if you don’t believe it yourself. He’s making sure WITHOUT HESITATING that she knows how amazing she is and that he’s in this. He’s not waiting around to have something to regret. If he does lose her he’ll know that he did everything he could (within his code) to try to win her heart. He’s as big on good form as she is on choice so he’s saying things that she understands. Just like she knew what a big deal the Milah thing was, she acknowledges that good form is a thing for him and he’s not being selfish with this even though it clearly means something to him. He’s going to try to win her over and he thinks he can but it will be in the right way (which she appreciates).
Granted, when he does get overly confident, she USUALLY ends up flirting with him by bantering back and pointing that out (“wouldn’t you like to know?” “you couldn’t handle it” etc etc) and last time she kissed him, so she probably went immediately to “change the subject. Focus on his belief that Henry will be saved.” mode because she doesn’t really want to deal with the feelings angle. But she definitely didn’t mind him being that close to her and she leans in when he gets close too, so I just can’t say I’m offended for her, nor that women everywhere should stay away from men who are unwavering loyal, believe fully in you, will do anything for you even if it hurts them / risks their chance with you, and makes sure that you know you’re loved/worthy of being loved/something special to them. It’s a lot better than hearing one thing and seeing another, and his actions back up his words which continues to impress her since that never happens for her which makes it harder for men who haven’t screwed up to get a chance in the first place (something I personally understand very well with the trust issue thing).
Was it the best way to do things ever? Probably not since it clearly had a negative affect on people who were on the fence. But we’ve seen how much this MEANS to Killian. How hurt he was when he didn’t warrant a mention. His secret (something that was proven true by the cave working) is how much she means to him – this is NOT a fling, he genuinely has feelings for her and it’s the first time he’s been able to let himself move on after Milah which is HUGE. So he’s telling her that he wants to win her HEART (aka: he needs it to mean something) and that he believes he will when she MAKES A CHOICE and she doesn’t argue with him about it at all. She studies his eyes the entire time. She accepts that he feels that way and is telling her he does and she knows that he’s right, the nonsense won’t be over until she makes a choice but that’s something she can’t focus on right now. So instead of bantering back or mocking him about any of it, she sees the conviction in his eyes (that his actions continue to match and pleasantly surprise her) and then she focuses on something else; namely his complete belief in her.
She needs to process a LOT of stuff. But if she wasn’t at least potentially interested, she would have shut it down already. Emma hates false hope and thanks to the cave, she knows how much this means to Hook. I don’t think she’d string him along if there wasn’t at least a chance she wanted him (and I think that once she lets go of her walls, she will realize that she does). She HATES this so if there were any chance to make it go away, she’d pretty much take it. Focusing on Henry only helps in the shortterm. She gets why Neal is fighting and there’s a lot of things that have to be sorted out there, but she could spare Hook (knowing how much it means to him thanks to the cave) and say she’s flattered but not interested and she hasn’t done that (and her actions/body language suggest otherwise to begin with).
I think what gets lost in reading the words sometimes is the body language/visual cues. Emma was SMILING in that conversation (as was Hook). She wasn’t put off by it. She leans in close when he gets close, she doesn’t back away. She was only angry at him at first because she thought he must have done something to make Neal behave that way and after she asked why and got her answer, it became about them again. About the fact that he wanted it to mean something when they kissed (which she diverted to showing appreciation for his selflessness and that that was even more important than the kiss – which she hasn’t had time to process yet). After that, he took the chance to lay his feelings on the table because he was hurt that she even thought he wouldn’t try to win her over the right way. He is sick of being told he’s a pirate and therefore scum. He has a good. He believes in good form and he made a point of saying that. So to him, he does think they’ll end up together, but he wants it to be because she wants him and because he did things the way he should – in a way that continues to bring out the best in him and to help him be a better man; the man he used to be. Emma brings out the best in him and she hasn’t been paying too much attention to it but his actions are starting to be noticed by her and she’s appreciating them.
Would it have come across better if he said “If” absolutely – and as much as I love his conviction I kinda wish now that he had said it that way so that people wouldn’t read it as him taking away her choice because it is still hers and he acknowledges that. He’s just displaying as much confidence as he can because he can’t deal with imagining the heartbreak and if he’s not confident about it, why should she believe it either? But at the end of the day, it IS her choice and he’ll respect what she wants as he always does. He continues to put her happiness before his own and he thought he had lost her completely only to find out there still might be a chance so he’s going to take it.
All season Neal has said that he didn’t do what he should have which is tell her he loves her (which we haven’t heard yet now that he’s back with her). Mulan went to go tell Aurora and didn’t get to tell her because of other circumstances and walked away. Ariel was punished by Regina with the taking of her voice saying it was the worst kind of punishment, not being able to say that you love someone and getting a chance out of that. On top of that with the Ariel thing, she chose her friend over running off to Eric even though pretty sure they’re meant to be together. Hook did the same thing here – he chose to tell her his old friend was alive, knowing it might kill any chance he had of being with her, and instead she appreciates that about him and is seeing him in a different light, but that doesn’t mean he won’t end up with her.
So it’s refreshing to see someone who actually isn’t afraid to voice their feelings (even though in the quiet moments we see how much it pains Hook and how very important this is, he still makes a point of saying it because not saying it is worse). On the plus side he might have a chance with her and if he doesn’t then at least she knows that someone genuinely cares for her and behaves that way. In her past, she’s been promised the world only to have the rug yanked out from under her so of COURSE she doesn’t trust easily. (It’s one of my pet peeves when dealing with the opposite gender – words and actions need to back each other up. Don’t say what you think we want to hear and then behave in the opposite manner!)
For Emma, Neal said he loved her, they had their dream of Tallahassee – but when she got out of jail and spent 2 years there looking for him, he was gone. Then she discovers him in Manhattan and he’s engaged to someone else when he could have come looking for her to explain. Hook continues to back up his words with his actions and she’s starting, bit by bit, to notice that. He keeps making sure she knows that she is special and amazing and brilliant and someone worth fighting for which is a big deal for him since he hasn’t felt that way about anybody for ages and gave ALL of that up to help Emma find her son and believes that she will. He continues to believe in her (like Henry did in S1 especially). These are the two men that SHE abandoned: Hook and Henry, and both have unwavering faith in her to do what needs to be done. We just now heard Snow say how amazing and wonderful Emma turned out to be, when Hook has been saying that since the beanstalk. Not many people can override a captain’s plan and be 1) listened to immediately and 2) complimented for it. He RESPECTS her.
Yes he may have been a little heavy on the innuendos before and said some questionable things but she’s hit right back with him on occasion and smiles when doing so. That was the Hook FACADE/mask and she sees right through that now. He’s toned it way down because he genuinely cares and she’s getting to him. He’s no longer in “use your charm and flash a fake smile to get some girl to help you with your mission” mode. He’s been a pirate for a long time and it’s starting to wear off a bit finally. It MEANS something to him now. None of the flirting meant anything to him before but Emma has always gotten under her skin. His voice changes when it’s the real him vs the pirate facade. It was evident on the beanstalk for some of us, when things were a real moment vs him just being a pirate.
Emma didn’t care much for him in his facade moments. They showed us Emma and Snow rolling their eyes at him a lot for his stupid comments. It’s what he hid behind. It was his armor. But she’s getting to him as much as he’s getting to her. He *almost* broke through her walls on that beanstalk. She was so petrified that he’d double cross her that she left him up there because she “can’t take the chance I’m wrong about you” meaning that she DID believe he wouldn’t betray her (and he wouldn’t have) but because of HER walls and trust issues, she was too afraid to risk it because of what was on the line (Henry). This time around, she’s trusting him completely and looking to him for answers and sticking close to him, even when someone else should be asked about something. She’s seeing a lot more of Killian Jones than his Captain Hook mask and she’s thanking him for that/for letting her in, and he’s slowly but surely being let in with her as well.
But at the end of the day, it’s still HER CHOICE which is HUGE for someone whose whole life has been manipulated and the choices have been made for her with devastating consequences to her psyche.
- Snow and Charming sending her through a wardrobe so that she could save them all (forcing her into being the savior and away from her parents growing up)
- Pinocchio leaving her in the foster system while he ran off and had a good time
- Neal choosing to go to Canada without her because it would be too dangerous (she talked him out of it)
- Neal listening to Pinocchio to stay away from Emma leaving her in jail
- Neal not choosing to come back when he could have after the curse broke
- Neal choosing to move on with Tamara rather than fight to explain everything to Emma
- Apparently Pan orchestrating ALL of that so that the son of the Dark One and the product of true love meet and have Henry (waiting for more on how that all plays out but I can’t imagine Emma will be thrilled about that if it was in fact more orchestrated than them just happening to meet since she was VERY hurt at the idea in Manhattan)
There have so many HURTFUL times when others have made choices that greatly affect her life without consulting her. So with how tough she is and how bitter she is about things like that, choices that affected her own choices etc, I don’t see her being upset with the way that Hook worded that because if she had felt like he was choosing for her: she would have reacted. I firmly believe that based on everything we know about her. Choice is a big deal for her, and Hook may say he wants something (which isn’t a crime to tell her how amazing she is and that he has feelings for her!) but he ultimately lets her choose everytime. Just like he lets her override his plans, or when he’s said no to something and she asks him to do it, he does it anyway. So it IS a big theme for CS. Our captain may be confident that she will choose him and he said why, but the choice still has to be made which leaves the ball firmly in Emma’s corner and it IS a choice (and he called it as such).
Hope that answered the question!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
That was a very thought out post MysteryKat. It’s an interesting interpretation of events for sure and gave me some things to think about especially on Emma’s side of things.
I’ll have to see the next couple of episodes to see where Hook’s character goes to decide whether I can consider CaptainSwan a viable option again or not.
On a slightly different topic, does anyone think Hook’s redemption has come a little bit too easily at the moment?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixOn a slightly different topic, does anyone think Hook’s redemption has come a little bit too easily at the moment?
I think that there are bumpy seas ahead, if that’s what you mean. But infinity % confidence!!!
Voting like a maniac on twitter right now…
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
I don’t think his redemption arc has been easy. Nothing is ever easy when it comes to redemption. Look at Regina and Rumpelstiltskin. Like JMo said, “..he keeps on surprising her [in a good way].” He saved Charming’s life, didn’t take Pan’s death, led a rescue to save Neal (his romantic rival). Each episode is a stepping point in his redemption as a hero. It’s a journey.
Hook’s been very selfless since the beginning of this season. Nothing has ever been about himself. The moment on board the Jolly Roger, toasting Neal, Hook mourned him too but that moment was all about Emma and giving her the proper closure she needed.
I’m happy to hear your opinion oncemusicfan, I’m happy to hear everyone’s opinion on this little debate. For me this episode actually put me off CaptainSwan whereas before I was indecisive between CS and SF. I liked Hook’s character in episodes 1-4, 5 I didn’t really care for his backstory- that whole episode felt flat for me, episode 6 was better with Hook immediately revealing the information about Neal on the island. Season 2 I was generally anti-Hook because of the way he treated Belle and Rumple (My two favourite characters) but season 3 I was open to the possibility of CaptainSwan because Hook had almost kind of proven himself as a plausible love interest for Emma. However, this episode, it felt like he kind of went back to season 2 Hook and it wasn’t nice. Of course my opinion of Hook could change again next week but I didn’t like what I saw of him in 307. Thoughts?
I…really miss the preview button. :S
I think Hook was really kicking himself because Emma hadn’t shut him down earlier in the talk that I just discussed, but she was so disgusted (and rightly so) with their petty fight that almost got them all killed just now, that she lashed out (yay Emma!). Hook typically lets her cool off and then talks to her alone later on so I’m interested in seeing how things go with both guys in the aftermath of that moment. Henry is the priority and as Hook said, nothing can move forward with the triangle really until Henry is home safe and sound (and that was even before Emma chose Henry!)
I totally get the RumBelle stuff – I love them too and was devastated in the Crocodile when I realized Hook and Rumple would be at odds because I love them both. Also looking forward to seeing the changed Hook talk to Belle and apologize. He and Rumple were able to let it go, but we haven’t had a chance yet for him and Belle to chat. I was mad at him in that episode too for sure. I don’t excuse any of them for behavior like that. (I get frustrated when people act like Rumple is a saint,even toward Belle, but then can’t stand Hook, but I DO love both of them and want redemption and love for both men). So I don’t excuse the bad behavior at all and I look forward to everyone letting the past go with a lot of this stuff. It was encouraging to see Hook let Rumple on his ship and it was the first step in him letting go of the past which was nice to see.
Personally I feel like in this episode BOTH Hook and Neal backtracked a bit. As soon as they started acting like children it fell apart but I think they’ll snap out of it now. Neal was understandably hurt by what he learned, and Hook thought he had heard the secret so was trying to thank him for being so great about it and not holding it against him only for it to backfire. This caused the passive aggressiveness that Emma thought she handled when she found out what was going on. In fact in the lighter scene, Neal said that Hook was trying to impress Emma and that’s what Emma heard which is what led to the “You’re doing this now? Really?” when that scene played out more to me like, Emma’s chomping at the bit, you’re not making it work, can I try? He gets accused of being selfish (when he really hasn’t been this season), gets a 2 second chance to try followed by it being thrown in his face that it’s not as easy as it looks and then NEAL dives in to make a fight out of it which causes Hook to stoop to his level officially, putting them all in danger.
BOTH guys were disappointing to us and to Emma in that moment which is why she reacted the way she did so that they would knock it off and focus on Henry. I *hope* that’s the end of them being anything but wonderful and themselves from now on.
I really enjoyed Killian’s episode because we understood that there’s a lot more to his hatred of NL and that he’s lost so much too. It was a nice way to show why it’s so important that Emma doesn’t lose Charming. Originally we thought his comments were about Milah with the losing someone suddenly without having a chance to say goodbye, but it was Milah and Liam. It also showed that he was a good man who stuck to a code and that all these other things affected him (like Rumple being the Dark One or Regina losing Daniel) so I thought it was great we were finally seeing a good side of him that wasn’t the Captain Hook facade. It shows that that man is still in him and is starting to shine through but that it takes time. Also really helped cement the fact that Hook is the mask he hides behind but that Emma brings out the Killian side (looking forward to him calling him Killian and saying pirate as a term of endearment rather than one that hurts him!)
No redemption path is perfect – remember Regina was all over the place in S2 – but for the most part, while Hook has done some awful things he’s also tried to correct them as much as possible or do something to a lesser extent than was done to him. I’m very happy with the character growth from S2 though because he spent so much time on his revenge only to feel empty when he thought he got it and it made him realize that’s not who he wants to be anymore. Couple that with Emma getting to him, he started to become the man he used to be, the better version of himself again.
S3 he’s definitely stepped it up, albeit subtly for Emma since she hasn’t always noticed but she’s starting to. He definitely took a tiny step back last episode because of stooping to that level (boys will be boys *sigh*) but I think now more than ever he’s going to be back on track. They’ve shown us this season him starting to win over Charming (like Charming had to with the dwarves) and that Emma is starting to see him for who he really is and how much that means to him. So I have faith that once they stop with the petty 5 year old routine (which I genuinely hope is gone now and that they’re focused on Henry), that he will be impressive again.
No redemption is perfect or easy and it would be too easy if he just completed shed his Hook persona over night. He’s already toned down the things he says and the way he says them, and his voice changes when you know he’s emotional and serious. More and more of Killian is shining through but that doesn’t mean he just forgets all the bad stuff. Emma said his being a pirate was his strength to helping them and she’s learning that he’s so much more than that but it takes time. He HAS been truly helpful to her the entire time they’ve been out there though with literally the exception of the lighter incident which he can only take 1/2 the blame for, so as far as I’m concerned that’s a mark against both men (and both should have known better – especially Hook since he sorta knows where Emma’s head is right now moreso than Neal just because Neal didn’t know about some of the other things on Emma’s mind).
Hook is always mindful of Emma having feelings for Neal. He understands it. It why he gave her his sword. He knows what it feels like to lose your first love and how painful that is. It doesn’t change that he has feelings for her too, but he gets that there’s a connection there so she won’t be leaping into his arms anytime soon and he can’t expect another kiss. But it is telling that she was “feeling good” and able to take a little break (multiple times actually) when she was around Hook and let him comfort her in one way or another and relax a bit, and now that the triangle is in full swing she’s in a constant state of panic. She’s ALWAYS been worried about Henry and is absolutely the priority, but before this Hook was able to read exactly what she needed. He stood up for her when others accused her to screwing up or wanted to take the easy way out, and he has praised her every step of the way. He didn’t even mind her using magic to save them. He accepts her for who she is and makes sure that she knows that at all times.
The mission to save Henry isn’t exactly an ideal time for romance, especially for someone like Emma with trust issues. But love comes at the most inopportune times and in the most surprising ways. She was actually smiling and celebrating the little victories, and feeling comfortable and “good” when she kissed Hook. She had been smiling and flirty and that was definitely not a thank you kiss. But now that so much more information has been revealed to her and Neal’s back, she’s on emotion overload and she can only focus on Henry. She hasn’t been smiling. She’s been annoyed with this fiasco.
Neal being back she was glad he was alive but she was upset and sad and every time they’ve talked she hasn’t been happy about stuff. But in that conversation with Hook before everything fell apart with the lighter, she was SMILING again which makes Hook smile because he wants her to be happy (he put her happiness ahead of his when he told her about Neal – thinking that she’d get him back and they’d go off happy together and he’d lose her but at least she’d be happy). The only person I’ve seen make Neal smile was Tink.
So I definitely think that Hook took it hard that she lashed out at them. He realized they had been in danger because of their petty squabbling and while he made sure she knew they weren’t fighting over the stupid object that she was so offended they were fighting over (even though she must have known it was actually her), she put an end to it right there. Putting out notice that Henry is the most important thing and that nobody has a chance until Henry’s safe. End of story.
Neal took that well and I actually really appreciated that and then his comment later on. It was like a reverse of last week when he didn’t seem to be hearing what she said so it was nice, especially the one later on where it was a callback to everything she said to him before that he ignored at first.
Hook…was hurt because she was hurt. No longer was she smiling and appreciating his company, she was MAD at him (and Neal but he doesn’t like her being mad at him). On top of that he screwed up and it jeopardized his chances which he is very very invested in. Hook tends to let her cool off for a bit and then talk. He knew she wasn’t having any of it right then and even when Neal caught up to her later she was just like “ugh what now” and not wanting to have any one-on-ones to deal with their feelings any more.
This episode reminded me a lot of how Hook lets Emma cool off and then goes to be whatever she needs. He witnessed the issues on the ship and let her have a bit of time before going downstairs to check on her. It was very similar with Snowing in this episode. Charming let her have a day of not talking to him and then was finally like “we have to talk. say SOMETHING” – Snow and Emma are very similar at times as well as Charming and Hook. They recognize that the girls need a little space to cool off a bit but then they also have to convince them to actually talk about their feelings too or they shut down completely.
It was reminiscent too of Heart of Darkness where Snow didn’t care about Charming’s words and he tried to break it with TLK and she shoved him away and it wasn’t until he took an arrow for her that she realized that maybe his words actually meant something and then she kissed him which brought all her memories back. They know when to push and when to take a step back and Hook wisely took a step back this time.
I’m really really interested in the aftermath of all this. I expect them to talk about everything at some point but there may not be a good time to do that anytime soon. Right now, Hook is focused on getting Henry because that means they can get out of NL (he has major reasons to hate it to begin with) and Emma will be happy because she’ll have Henry back and THEN he won’t have a chance until they’ve done that. He had to interrupt the Tink/Neal reunion because it wasn’t being focused on the mission and he was still upset that he was in the doghouse with Emma and the fact that Neal was too but was smiling and practically flirting with Tink instead of continuing on with the mission. (He could have easily let that continue and just watch Emma’s face and see what she thought of everything, but he put the mission above a chance for Emma and Neal to connect on something by interrupting the interesting exchange for TinkerFire – Neal was completely smiling and I was waiting for Tink to go hug him and then have a moment where we see Emma’s reaction to everything and there was none of it).
So I totally get not loving what he’s done this week. The path to redemption is definitely not smooth sailing (and neither is any path to love), and both men regressed this week a bit. I’m encouraged by the fact that Hook’s made great strides in S3 though and that ultimately, he’s shown that Emma’s happiness is important to him so that he’ll put her first and focus on the mission. I don’t expect him to stop feeling anything or stop letting her know that be it by his actions or words, but I fully expect it to be more actions for the time being. He’s put himself out there and now he’s got to follow through and prove it to her. I think she’ll be more likely to pay attention to it now though since it was made a big deal out of. She’ll be curious and paying attention to it. This is a woman who isn’t used to being put first, but Hook keeps surprising her by saving her dad, or telling them Neal was alive when he didn’t have to (and in fact, his path to Emma might have been shorter and she’d have never had reason to suspect anything was wrong but he’s making a point of doing all of this for her).
So hopefully next week will be much better for people who are on the fence. It’s a long bumpy ride and as someone who has been part of CaptainSwan from the beginning, it certainly hasn’t been easy and I imagine the case is the same for anyone who likes ANY couple on this show because they’ve all made mistakes – not one character is perfect. I can’t wait til I can watch the whole season together and see how far some of them have come. It would be unrealistic for Hook to suddenly become a saint so it doesn’t surprise me he slipped up in this episode a little bit with the petty fighting but I hope he improves for those who aren’t sure about him!
I’ve found with a lot of episodes, especially this season, the first time through I think on the surface it seemed like ___ came out looking better and almost starting to panic about whether they’ll go this way or that way, and I’ve learned the longer the season goes on that even a lot of the stuff that seems good for SF at first can also be seen as very good for CS when I go back and analyze so I’ve stopped panicking and am just enjoying the ride now. There are many many layers at play and the characters sometimes surprise us even when we think we know them.(It’s one of the reasons I react so badly to all the assumptions about Hook because he was a pirate even though we’ve NEVER seen him going around and raping women even though that gets thrown out ALL THE TIME as an argument against him. He’s a pirate with a code and he’s quite charming when he wants to be. If they haven’t shown us something that, I don’t believe it for a second. He may have been a bit of a womanizer BEFORE MILAH, we just don’t know, but he’s been loyal to her memory for centuries and I expect the same kind of loyalty for Emma as well (though with an improved sense of self, becoming the GOOD Killian again and not the pirate or Hook.) Killian isn’t perfect but we love him and I have faith he will continue to improve and be more than a viable option for Emma’s heart but the right one for her.
(That said I do genuinely want Neal to find someone he is meant to be with and better suited for. I found out a long time ago that my issues with him are just with regards to Emma but I love Bae and want him to be happy too!) The show has made a point that families are sometimes not the typical family, and that first love isn’t always true love so Emma is open either way. Personally I feel like they’re setting it up to be with Killian but he hasn’t won her over…YET. I hope that by the time Emma makes a choice, whoever it is that it 1) sticks – no flip-flopping, and 2) is made obvious that it’s right for her and explains why so that this stupid triangle (which I’m not convinced is really a triangle except for the media hype and the shipper wars) is over once and for all, and then we see them working as a team and fighting against all odds like all the other core couples on this show.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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