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@MysteryKat I always like to post after you because I feel like I don’t have to actually write anything – I can just point and smile at your post.
Totally agree with what you said.
@PriceOfMagic – *waving hello* I’m the “older” shipper in the group. I think that a lot of it comes down to what MysteryKat mentioned, everyone has their personal preference in terms of what they find attractive in a mate and what they find off-putting so it’s difficult to try to explain why the CS shippers see one thing when the SF shippers see something else.Personally, I see only confidence in Killian when he told Emma that he would win her heart. I happen to find overtly confident men extremely attractive – but there is a huge difference between a man who is extremely confident and a guy who is enamored with himself the way Gaston is. And I think a lot of women often think that extremely confident men do not treat women well when I find that to be exactly the opposite case. Men who are exceedingly confident typically treat women like queens because they don’t have any reason to feel threatened by them. Men who are truly confident don’t need to hide behind any kind of mask so they can be very direct, honest, and open with people – which is exactly what Killian was doing when he told Emma that she needs to make a choice. Honestly confident men don’t need to drag a woman down to make themselves feel better – they know who they are on their own. But that doesn’t mean that they aren’t vulnerable and that they don’t have a need for someone in their life who can help them be a better person.
This is where I think Emma and Killian are a good match. I think Emma is a very strong and confident woman but I think she has pockets of herself and her life that she doesn’t know how to navigate very well because of her past. And I think when things get uncomfortable for Emma she tends to shut down instead of facing things unless she is forced to face them. In order to learn to navigate those areas of her life and face uncomfortable situations head on I think she needs someone who is equally as strong and confident as she is who can call her out when she starts to shut down. This takes someone who isn’t afraid to get in her face (literally – Killian literally walks right into her personal space) because he knows that she understands that she is safe with him and that she can trust him. It takes someone who has absolute belief in her abilities so she can be built up when she starts to doubt herself.
Emma has had all of these people in her life who were supposed to protect her who haven’t done their job. Her parents – the people you count on take care of your basic needs sent her away and orphaned her (as well intentioned as they may have been), August left her alone in the orphanage to go off on his own adventure instead of watching over her and making sure she stayed on the right path, Neal abandoned her and left her by herself when she was a pregnant teenager (even though he didn’t know he was doing it). Emma still doesn’t believe she can count on anyone. She needs someone to be intentional and direct in proving to her that she can count on him. That means he has to actually DO things to show her she can count on him – proving that he never lies to her, returning to Storybrook, finding a cure for her father, telling the truth about Neal, ALWAYS allowing her to be the one to have a choice since she has rarely been allowed to have choices, and being confident in showing her that he means it when he says he is fighting for her.
I think any of the ridiculous behavior on BOTH Killian and Neal’s parts was actually put in the episode to prove that there was a reason that Killian was telling Emma that she DOES need to hear that she needs to make a choice – even if the time to make the choice is not right now. Which is why he made the comment about the fact that they weren’t fighting over a lighter. He was saying that until she makes a choice dumb behavior like that will continue to happen because they are two guys fighter over the same girl – she is the only one who has the ability to stop it. This is EXACTLY one of those scenarios that Killian knows Emma does not EVER like to deal with so he is calling her out on it. But he is also trying to help her out. Her knows her well and knows that sometimes all the worry you put into making a decision is worse than actually making the decision itself. So he reminds her that real fun begins after she saves Henry and makes her choice – because he IS confident that HE is the best choice for her.
Again, it’s so hard to “see” things through another ship. My hubby is an extremely confident guy who I was initially attracted to because of his confidence but then I fell in love with him because of the confidence he had in me. That is exactly what is see in CS so I am completely baffled when people say that a guy like Killian is a horrible example for ABC to be showing Emma with because young girls will think that is the kind of guy they should go after and it’s a horrible message to send. My husband treats me like a queen and is not cocky or Gaston-like at all.
But he did tell me he was going to marry me on our first date. Of course we had already known each other for 5 years. But, oddly enough, when he told me that – I believed him. Ends up he was right!!
[adrotate group="5"]It shows that that man is still in him and is starting to shine through but that it takes time. Also really helped cement the fact that Hook is the mask he hides behind but that Emma brings out the Killian side (looking forward to him calling him Killian and saying pirate as a term of endearment rather than one that hurts him!)
It’s like what Colin said in the DVD featurette, “Hook” and “Killian” are two separate personas.
No redemption is perfect or easy and it would be too easy if he just completed shed his Hook persona over night.
Yup.
He’s already toned down the things he says and the way he says them, and his voice changes when you know he’s emotional and serious. More and more of Killian is shining through but that doesn’t mean he just forgets all the bad stuff.
This.
Hey everyone thought I’d let you know we got around 1100 votes just from tweets in the 1st hour of the voting party. That doesn’t include RTs of these 1100 votes 🙂
Interesting points of view everyone. This has been a nice pleasant debate to have with you all.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixYeah we did really well 🙂 I spent a straight hour voting non stop on the mobile app I think it’s possible I got in like 10000 votes just on my own. Now I’m paying the price with a wicked case of carpal tunnel lol I’m gonna just take a break to collect my thoughts…
Also Hook’s behaviour towards Neal was very offish considering Hook is supposed to “care” for Neal. It seemed like Hook was constantly trying to assert his dominance over Neal and prove to Emma that he was the “better man” but not in the good way. It’s like Hook was trying to prove his manliness to Emma. Hook with his attitude and behaviour this episode reminded me of Gaston from Disney’s Beauty and the Beast.
I know you directed this question to Eala, but I will give my take on it & you can take it or leave it as you will 🙂
I didnt see Killian’s behavior as ‘offish’ in a bad way tbh (although I can relate, so that maybe why)- I think personally he was wondering how Neal would react & just who Neal was as a person now (remember it’s been a while for them both)…. We dont know what happened after Bae was taken by the lost boys (but obviously Hook knew where Bae was hiding- he knew where the cave was & how to get in & got Bae’s cutlass from there (after) Bae left, but before he himself left, I also assume Bae knew he knew, as he didnt seemed surprised that Hook ‘knew’ about his cave at all), so we dont know how things stood between them by the time Bae left NL.
I could relate to his response to spending time with Neal, because if I see an old friend I havent seen in yrs, I’m a little ‘stand offish’- I like to listen & observe to figure out who they are now, compared to who they were back then- people change, thats life.
I also think *many* ST/SF & NealFire fans have seen & expected Hook to continue on as a kind of ‘father figure’, rather than as a friend, but Bae shot that down firmly when he refused Hook on board twice & with how much time must have past on NL with Hook & Bae both there at the same time (like I say, we dont know what the relationship was like by the time Bae left NL), so I was very pleased they made of point of stating Killian see’s Neal/Bae as a “Friend” a number of times & honestly it works well with how Neal reacted to seeing Hook in NY IMO- his expression back then wasnt one of ‘oh no, my father figure from NL’ or ‘ha! evil pirate got what he deserved’ either- it was somewhere in the middle. Hook’s reaction to hearing Neal/Bae was dead was grief, which I feel was appropriate for a ‘friends’ passing away- if he had truly thought of Bae as a ‘son’ all this time later, he would have reacted more strongly to the news IMO (he is after all is said & done, a man who loves wholly & deeply).
It seemed like Hook was constantly trying to assert his dominance over Neal and prove to Emma that he was the “better man” but not in the good way
I’m not quite sure which scene/s you are actually referring to here, other than the lighter scene?
If it is the lighter scene, then in all honesty BOTH parties there acted like total idiots IMO. I will say that Emma was pressing Neal to get the fire light & I know from personal experience when you feel you could do a better/quicker job of it, you do just want a ‘chance’ to try- because watching someone else try repeatedly to do something simple & fail is down right frustrating, yes he went about it the wrong way, but in all fairness Neal only let him try once to light the candle, before trying to get the lighter off of him- at least Hook stood back & allowed Neal a few tries at it, before wanting to take over. BOTH men behaved like squabbling 5yr olds IMO- NEITHER came out of that one smelling like roses & sunshine IMO.
It’s like Hook was trying to prove his manliness to Emma
Lol- see I actually felt that was more Neal this ep with his “she doesnt need anything to remember me- she has me now” line & the attitude that went with it- so I guess that all comes down to interpretation 😉
Like I said before BOTH guys lost points with me with their petty fighting, but BOTH gained points back in different ways & places as well this ep.
I hope that was off some use to you, if not then I hope Eala can give you better insights on it than I have tried to 🙂
Interesting points of view everyone. This has been a nice pleasant debate to have with you all.
Yay!
Did you see this about a “Princess Bride” adaptation, Disney is working on?
It’ll be for the stage. No word yet if it will be a play or musical, or title.
It seemed like Hook was constantly trying to assert his dominance over Neal and prove to Emma that he was the “better man” but not in the good way
I’m not quite sure which scene/s you are actually referring to here, other than the lighter scene?
Thanks for your input surayya. It wasn’t just the lighter scene I was referring to. It was also the scene where Hook invited himself along on Emma and Neal’s trip (as if he didn’t want to give Emma chance to be alone with Neal in case she and Neal got back together). Also the scene where Hook revealed about the kiss to Neal. Hook’s not stupid, yet Neal asked TWICE what Hook was on about and Hook still didn’t seem to cotton on that Neal had no idea what he was talking about. I felt that Hook revealed the kiss in a way that though it was supposedly an “accident”, it was a subtle way of telling Neal to back off.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixGotcha PriceOfMagic – my reading of his interaction with Neal, I’ve mostly already explained- they are very different people now, which to me explains his manner & as to what he said & why, I feel that is exactly how Killian explained it to Emma- he thought Neal had heard his secret- in fact all of their secrets, so I think he must have heard Emma’s secret too (I’m just not sure “how” much of it he actually heard) & was genuinely surprised & gratified Neal wasnt kicking up a big fuss over it- remember Killian feels like that kiss really means, if not as much to Emma as it does to him, then it at least means she feels ‘something’ between them, so Neal’s lack of immediate comprehension confused Killian & took him aback, he started to have 2nd thoughts on what Emma maybe feeling, which is why he got thoughtful.
Inviting himself to go with them, agreed it was pushy- but at that point in time, getting Pan’s shadow was of far more importance than finding Tink & Killian knows Emma wants Henry back asap & so does he, because it means they can get out of NL once & for all (& yes I do think him wanting to stay close to Emma featured into his decision to go with them at that point too- just if had Emma said ‘Killian & she’ were on Shadow duty, Neal would have said he’d go too, because he had skills that could be of use). After all Emma having 2 people familiar with island & the goings on there is by far of more advantage to her than allowing one to wander around the jungle looking for an ex fairy- If she had felt ALL Killain wanted was to keep her from alone time with Neal, she would have said no or shut him down, esp after Snow pointed it out, but she trusts Killian to a large extent, values his opinion on things & knows she can relay on him to help her, so his saying he should go with them was fine by her in that moment.
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