The Captain Swan thread!

[CaptainEala]

I agree, this episode was basically one big parallel between Malcolm/Rumple and Rumple/Neal. CSers have been saying for ages that Neal’s arc is all about his father this season (and not Emma) and between this episode and “Nasty Habits” that has been pretty much proven.

I think that Neal, who has seen first hand how his father and magic go together, is understandably wary of Rumple being the most powerful of them all there – magic turned Rumple into a man who only did things unless it benefitted him, he made deals – not favours, and the deals always came with a price. I think that Neal has always resented how Rumple wields his magic in an attempt to gain power and control.

Multiple times in 3×08, we see Neal trying to stop Rumple from falling back into these habits, by not allowing him to use magic, making him give Neal Pandora’s box so that Neal could stop him if he attempted to hurt Henry, and he prevented Rumple from making his usual deals.

It was when Neal realised that Rumple wasn’t lying about coming to save Henry that he gave Rumple his eleventy billionth chance (lol).

As for Regina, she has been burned in deals MANY TIMES with Rumple, so I totally get why she would still not trust him!!!

So all of that wasn’t fishy to me.

So Neal is fine with Emma using magic since it’s not all that powerful yet but he firmly warns dad not to use his super powerful magic.

I don’t think Neal is fine with Emma using magic at all… but that’s just what I think. He was very unpleasantly surprised when Emma used it in Dark Hollow and again last night – he moved directly behind Regina and was watching them both with a wary expression.

Well, Rumple certainly didn’t think of a fake Pandora’s box – and who had been carrying around the box and gave it to Rumple before he went into the cave?? Neal!!! 

That IS suspicious actually.

But like you, i’m finding it hard to believe that he would do anything to compromise his sons safety, especially after just finding out from Wendy that Pan intends to kill Henry to attain immortality. I didn’t mind Neal at all this episode, and the one time I did find him annoying was the only time in the whole episode that he addressed Emma directly – when he accused her of not telling him that Rumple and Regina were together *rolls eyes*

I try not to dislike Neal, but his use of Roland to get to NL (especially now that we know that Shadow is freaking smart and scary) coupled with his treatment of Emma makes that hard at times. The writers seem to be directly paralleling Rumple and Neal, but at the same time they are giving Neal is own arc in that he will be the one to break the cycle.

I found an interesting post on tumblr actually, which is SCARILY accurate.

the writers are very obviously paralleling Neal and Rumpel in both the past and to an extent their present

Rumpel had an unsuccessful first love (Milah), a toxic second (Cora), and finally found happiness with the third (Belle)

Neal had an unsuccessful first love (Emma), a toxic psychotic second (Tamara), and if pattern follows he will find happiness with a third (????)

 

[killianhookfan]

You know what I love about both of the above gifs??

They are totally realistic!!

So Emma kind of read both Killian and Neal the riot act for fighting over a “lighter” when they should all be focused on #SavingHenry. Lots of people are saying that Killian was pouting or acted totally I appropriately to her telling them both that she was choosing Henry but I never saw that at all, I saw that he was kind of kicking himself for acting so immaturely when that isn’t at all his personality.

So then Killian and Emma had their little discussion where he basically told her that he knows she’s gonna choose him but understands that she needs to focus on Henry right now so everything else between the two if them is going to wait until they get back to SB.

But he is still a GUY!! And I still believe that part of Killian’s conversation with Emma about her having to make a choice is about the fact that she has not clearly said to one of them “I choose you” and “I don’t choose you” to the other. And until she does that both guys have hope which means both guys are being led on. Now I know there are people who totally disagree with me, but the fact that there is a huge group of SF shippers who believe that Emma told Neal she was choosing him and that she told Killian she is not choosing him tells you just how unclear she has been. So until she tells one guy “No way” they are both being led on – I don’t think she is doing it purposely, I think she does it because she doesn’t know how to make hard decisions even when they really aren’t that hard to make (which is why Killian is so good for her – he calls her out on that).

So poor Killian is in love with this woman who grabbed him and kissed him like no one else and who has flat out told him she has noticed the things that he has been doing that are proving the kind of man he really is. And he wants her more than anything but because he loves and respects her and also recognizes WHY it is that they are there in the first place he is basically giving his thoughts a daily cold shower so that he can keep good on allowing Emma to focus on Henry.

So then here comes Emma with every guys favorite words “We need to talk.”

Poor guy. When you tell the woman you love that she needs to make a choice between you and the father of your child, she tells both of you to give her space, and then she gets you alone and those are the first words she says to you, I’m guessing you don’t “Think Lovely Thoughts.” So we get a sarcastic Hook response and suddenly he is in self-protection mode with Emma again – which I think is completely realistic.

And then he finds out that she actually wants to talk about David (relief – it’s not the “we can still be friends” speech) but he also discovers that Daddy Charming and Emma have been talking about him. Hmmm? Wasn’t quite prepared for that information and it was PAINFUL information that she just dropped on him with no forewarning. So, sorry Killian I can’t get personal with you while we’re on the island because I need to focus on saving my son but while I’ve got you here can you just give me some additional details on one of the most painful events in your entire life because I’m not sure my dad got all the details correct. Oh, my bad – I know it must be hard to talk about, says the princess of unscalable walls.

I’m sorry but, what the heck??? Every time Killian has tried to lovingly let Emma know that he understands what she is going through hinting at the fact that he knows what it feels like to lose people he loves she has told him that she doesn’t have the time if day for him. And he has done this to be supportive of her. But now when she wants to get something out of it she suddenly wants to hear his story – but only acknowledges as a second thought that it must be painful for him to talk about. I don’t blame the guy for not wanting to talk to her about it. He doesn’t know of any way to get David off the island, he’s trying to keep emotional distance from her because that’s what she wants, and talking about Liam is too painful and personal a topic to discuss with her if he can’t be vulnerable with her. I felt bad for Killian in that scene. I know he loves her, respects her, and supports her but he has been doing everything for her since he came back to SB with the bean and I thought he was entitled to a “what about me?” moment. It had nothing to do with Henry – it was more like, “I’m following the rules you wanted, but you don’t have to? I don’t know HOW I’m supposed to act.”

Then when Daddy Charming kissed Emma and we see Killian’s face I thought it was the perfect follow up to that scene. Killian loves Emma and he wants so badly to be with her but he is still going to honor her wishes even it means he has to make himself stay away from her a bit emotionally, volunteer to stay behind when it is more appropriate for Henry’s parents to go on the rescue mission, and NOT give her the heartfelt goodbye and kiss that he wishes he could. Killian has always been direct and honest with her so he KNOWS that she knows how he feels about her, that he is fighting for her, and that he intends to win. Telling them that he would see them back on the Jolly Roger when they have Henry was his way of giving Emma a non-emotional goodbye but telling her again that he believes in her.

I got NOTHING in terms of SF during the entire episode. I mean NOTHING. There wasn’t even any confusion or emotion from Emma during the whole Wendy/Neal reunion, it was like she couldn’t have cared less. And even when Neal stood up to Rumple still trying to make deals with Emma to get the cure for the DreamShade cure for DaddyCharming – I felt like the scene was meant to be a Neal/Rumple moment not a SF moment. And even with Emma’s reaction, I felt like we were supposed to be seeing Emma’s reaction to the Neal/Rumple moment not Emma reacting emotionally to Neal standing up for her to get the cure for her father. It was not supposed to be like when Hook cured David. There were PLENTY of opportunities in this episode for SF moments but there just weren’t any. I even laughed out loud when poor Emma ran into the protection spell wall, flipped upside down, landed with a giant thud on the ground and Neal says “Are you okay?” like she has just taken a small stumble. Then he says “What the H*ll is that?” with tons of concern. He was more concerned about the invisible wall than the fact that the love of his life just took a giant face plant in front of him????

[killianhookfan]

I agree, this episode was basically one big parallel between Malcolm/Rumple and Rumple/Neal. CSers have been saying for ages that Neal’s arc is all about his father this season (and not Emma) and between this episode and “Nasty Habits” that has been pretty much proven.

I think that Neal, who has seen first hand how his father and magic go together, is understandably wary of Rumple being the most powerful of them all there – magic turned Rumple into a man who only did things unless it benefitted him, he made deals – not favours, and the deals always came with a price. I think that Neal has always resented how Rumple wields his magic in an attempt to gain power and control.

Multiple times in 3×08, we see Neal trying to stop Rumple from falling back into these habits, by not allowing him to use magic, making him give Neal Pandora’s box so that Neal could stop him if he attempted to hurt Henry, and he prevented Rumple from making his usual deals.

It was when Neal realised that Rumple wasn’t lying about coming to save Henry that he gave Rumple his eleventy billionth chance (lol).

As for Regina, she has been burned in deals MANY TIMES with Rumple, so I totally get why she would still not trust him!!!

So all of that wasn’t fishy to me.

rumplegoldfan wrote:

So Neal is fine with Emma using magic since it’s not all that powerful yet but he firmly warns dad not to use his super powerful magic.

I don’t think Neal is fine with Emma using magic at all… but that’s just what I think. He was very unpleasantly surprised when Emma used it in Dark Hollow and again last night – he moved directly behind Regina and was watching them both with a wary expression.

Well, Rumple certainly didn’t think of a fake Pandora’s box – and who had been carrying around the box and gave it to Rumple before he went into the cave?? Neal!!!

That IS suspicious actually.

But like you, i’m finding it hard to believe that he would do anything to compromise his sons safety, especially after just finding out from Wendy that Pan intends to kill Henry to attain immortality. I didn’t mind Neal at all this episode, and the one time I did find him annoying was the only time in the whole episode that he addressed Emma directly – when he accused her of not telling him that Rumple and Regina were together *rolls eyes*

I try not to dislike Neal, but his use of Roland to get to NL (especially now that we know that Shadow is freaking smart and scary) coupled with his treatment of Emma makes that hard at times. The writers seem to be directly paralleling Rumple and Neal, but at the same time they are giving Neal is own arc in that he will be the one to break the cycle.

I found an interesting post on tumblr actually, which is SCARILY accurate.

the writers are very obviously paralleling Neal and Rumpel in both the past and to an extent their present

Rumpel had an unsuccessful first love (Milah), a toxic second (Cora), and finally found happiness with the third (Belle)

Neal had an unsuccessful first love (Emma), a toxic psychotic second (Tamara), and if pattern follows he will find happiness with a third (????)

I guess what I mean about Neal being okay with Emma using magic is that he hasn’t forbidden her from using it or totally freaked out about it the way he has with Rumple. So like with the Lost Boys, it obviously wasn’t that he didn’t want magic USED on the Lost Boys because he didn’t even flinch when Regina said she would do it, he just didn’t want Rumple to use it. So what I don’t get is if he doesn’t have a problem with the magic being used in the process of saving his son – why not allow Rumpke to use it since his magic is SO powerful. If you really want to save your son wouldn’t you want to do it as quickly as possible with the best chance possible – which to me would be to use the strongest magic possible.

I totally forgot that Neal was annoyed that Emma didn’t tell him about Regina being there with Rumple. That makes me even more suspicious. Because aside from Rumple, Regina is the one who has the most powerful magic. And Neal was none too happy that Regina grabbed the box out of his hands when he was handing it to Rumple – maybe wondering if she would be able to tell that it was a fake??

I don’t know. I do still have a huge issue with thinking Neal would hurt Henry. But PP made the comment before that he LET Neal leave the island. And Neal very confidently told them that he could get them off the island. What if Neal made a deal with PP that he would trade Rumple in exchange for getting off the island, maybe not knowing that Henry would die in the process. Afterall when they were talking to Wendy Rumple made the comment to her that no matter what PP had promised her, he will go back on his word. And Neal doesn’t know that Rumple has first hand knowledge of the kind of person that Rumple is. So maybe Neal believed that PP would trade Henry for Rumple (and potentially Hook in Dark Hollow) so that he could have a fresh start with Emma and Henry without the reputation of his father following them everywhere they go (just like was discussed in the Young Rumple back story and when Rumple told PP he was getting a fresh start just without him).

That is interesting about the similarities with Rumple and Neal’s relationships. Their second relationships both tried to killed them as well.

[CaptainEala]

I saw that he was kind of kicking himself for acting so immaturely when that isn’t at all his personality.

That’s exactly what I thought too. And that was, I believe, backed up with “Think Lovely Thoughts” where his entire focus was on the mission – he didn’t want to screw up/let her down again. He was even considerate enough to volunteer to stay behind while Emma/Neal/Regina/Rumple went off to #SaveHenry, realising that he didn’t really have the right to go with Emma, despite clearly wanting to.

Emma told Neal she was choosing him and that she told Killian she is not choosing him tells you just how unclear she has been.

To be honest, I didn’t think she said she was choosing anyone in that scene. To me she told Neal she loved him but that she wanted to put the pain of their past behind her, how she wished he had been dead so that process could be easier on her, and her feelings on that “can’t” change. I’m curious as to what SF shippers think Emma meant by “I wish I could change my feelings, but I can’t” line. Because that says NOTHING positive in SF’s favour to me. *shrugs* They’ll see soon enough. Anyway, I have confidence that the ephemeral triangle will be over by the end of 3B, so everyone will know Emma’s feelings either way (lol)(I know I sound so arrogant but that is seriously how confident I am with this ship) soon enough.

So we get a sarcastic Hook response and suddenly he is in self-protection mode with Emma again – which I think is completely realistic.

Absolutely. He was probably still hurt/stinging a bit from her rebuke and wasn’t looking forward to more. Lol.

 I don’t blame the guy for not wanting to talk to her about it. He doesn’t know of any way to get David off the island, he’s trying to keep emotional distance from her because that’s what she wants, and talking about Liam is too painful and personal a topic to discuss with her if he can’t be vulnerable with her. I felt bad for Killian in that scene. I know he loves her, respects her, and supports her but he has been doing everything for her since he came back to SB with the bean and I thought he was entitled to a “what about me?” moment.

I don’t blame him either! He doesn’t want to give her false hope. What was it he said in 3×04? Something about how hope and reality are different. I’m not sure it was a “what about me?” moment. I think that he’s just like Emma and didn’t want to open up the old wounds, that have already been prised apart by the whole “David getting poisoned and reminding me of my brother” thing. Not to mention the whole thing Killian has with Emma, he only allows himself to be vulnerable with her when he’s alone with her, and Neal and Rumple were well in earshot. I doubt it would be something he’d like to talk about when the man he’s tried to kill for 300 years is behind listening to every word.

Then when Daddy Charming kissed Emma and we see Killian’s face I thought it was the perfect follow up to that scene. Killian loves Emma and he wants so badly to be with her but he is still going to honor her wishes even it means he has to make himself stay away from her a bit emotionally, volunteer to stay behind when it is more appropriate for Henry’s parents to go on the rescue mission, and NOT give her the heartfelt goodbye and kiss that he wishes he could. Killian has always been direct and honest with her so he KNOWS that she knows how he feels about her, that he is fighting for her, and that he intends to win. Telling them that he would see them back on the Jolly Roger when they have Henry was his way of giving Emma a non-emotional goodbye but telling her again that he believes in her.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

There really was no other reason to cut to him in that scene other than to emphasise the concern he feels for Emma, and also to emphasise that there is another man in Emma’s life who wishes to protect her like her father does.

*crying forever*

I got NOTHING in terms of SF during the entire episode. I mean NOTHING.

I agree. No dialogue between them, except: “You didn’t tell me my father was with her.” “I didn’t know”. “What are you talking about?” “Prophecy that says Henry will be his undoing”.

Their body language was completely closed off from each other – Emma had her arms crossed when she was walking beside him, and again when she was talking to Snow. Emma typically doesn’t cross her arms unless she’s trying to protect herself in some way. When they were facing off against Rumple, Emma and Neal were turned AWAY from each other. Compare them to Snowing (right beside them) who were facing TOWARD each other. And Captain Swan were facing each other in multiple scenes in this episode, and were reminiscent of Snowing in that regard. When Regina/Rumple/Neal/Emma were going to Skull rock, Emma was sitting beside Regina, not Neal. Neal was rowing, in fairness, but the fact is that the writers do not want us to associate them together. For obvious reasons 😉

And even when Neal stood up to Rumple still trying to make deals with Emma to get the cure for the DreamShade cure for DaddyCharming – I felt like the scene was meant to be a Neal/Rumple moment not a SF moment. And even with Emma’s reaction, I felt like we were supposed to be seeing Emma’s reaction to the Neal/Rumple moment not Emma reacting emotionally to Neal standing up for her to get the cure for her father. 

Yep, I agree with you, it was definitely a father/son moment. When Emma comes back into focus just before she says “i’ll go tell David” it shows that she was staring at Rumple the whole time during that conversation, not Neal. She only addresses Neal when she says she’s going to tell David.

It was not supposed to be like when Hook cured David.

Lol, definitely NOT. Killian saved Charming because he knew it would make Emma unhappy if he died – he NEVER sought ANY credit for it, and even tried to prevent David from telling them. Killian saved David in such a way that only DAVID had the “power” to tell anyone about it. That is significant. Neal getting Rumple to do what he did for Charming was about Neal/Rumple, not Emma/Neal, especially when at the beginning of the conversation you could see Emma and Killian exchanging glances at each other in the background, lol.

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[CaptainEala]

So what I don’t get is if he doesn’t have a problem with the magic being used in the process of saving his son – why not allow Rumpke to use it since his magic is SO powerful.

IMO simply because he just does not trust Rumple in the slightest. And who can blame him really? Especially with regards to the prophecy.

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[CaptainEala]

I’ve yet to see you fail.

http://captainswanouat.tumblr.com/post/67374084527/ive-yet-to-see-you-fail

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[CaptainEala]

@Stelio – was there a voting party last night???? How did it go??? 🙂 And when is the next one???

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

[Killian Jones]

@Stelio – was there a voting party last night???? How did it go??? And when is the next one???

yes 🙂 we had one early before show time so we wouldn’t be in twitter jail when the cast started tweeting. We did 5,100 votes for the hour compare to like 600 once it was over.

[killianhookfan]

OH!! The other thing I loved was DaddyCharming immediately tossing a sword to Killian after Rumple stealing his.

You know what’s soooo great about that???? Dad’s are super protective of their daughters and when they first get into the dating years they try to do the whole intimidate the guys who are vying for her affection and make it clear that they aren’t good enough for her thing. But then when their daughter’s get older and they pick THE guy, whether they like the guy or not they try to bond with the guy because he is important to his daughter and he realizes that at some point he won’t be around to protect his daughter anymore and THIS man will be the one who be the one who will take care of her so he starts to love the guy as a family member.

In that moment I felt like DaddyCharming instinctively wanted Killian to be able to protect himself because he is Emma’s choice and the man who will be there for here in the future so to David it was instinctively more important to him that Killian be able to protect himself (Emma’s future) than it was to protect himself (Emma’s past). What I found so interesting is that the guy has a sharp metal hook attached to his arm – he kind of always travels with his own weapon so David was really sacrificing his own weapon to give Killian double protection.

So during their short time on NL it seems like they have progressed through all the protective daddy dating stages with David when it comes to Killian. And if you think about it there really wasn’t ANY reason AT ALL to have Emma bring up the fact that David had told her about Liam when she asked Killian about the cure for DreamShade except to establish that she and David had had a private conversation about Killian’s painful past. So far there has still not been any mention of any past David/Neal bonding or conversations of the details of Emma’s past with Neal with her parents but they wanted to make it clear that Emma and her dad have talked about Killian in NL when Emma says that all she has time to do is focus on her son!! And Killian and David have bonded to the point that David instinctively wants to make sure he is protected when they go into potentially dangerous situations.

This makes sense to me. If David thinks that he isn’t going to ever leave NL and is going to have to be separated from his daughter again, I would think that he would want to spend as much time with her as he can and be as much of a “dad” to her in the little time they have together. So giving her advice about the kind of man he believes to Killian to be and letting her know how much he knows Killian cares about her would make sense. Plus, if you look at what Charming’s situation with love was – he is the perfect person to give Emma advise. He was in a situation where he felt like the honorable thing to do was to marry whatever Katherine’s name was in the EF because if he didn’t they were going kill his mother and destroy their farm. But even though that may have seemed like the “right” decision on the outside because it was saving his mother, he didn’t love Katherine – he loved Snow. And to Emma if she thinks the right decision is to be with Neal because of Henry – that might “look” like the right decision but if she doesn’t love him the way she loves Killian than she is choosing the wrong person. He could tell her about how he and Snow met which is so similar to how CS met – Charming can really relate to Emma and Killian’s relationship in a way that I don’t think Snow can yet because she hasn’t had as much time to process having to stay on the island.

[CaptainEala]

yes we had one early before show time so we wouldn’t be in twitter jail when the cast started tweeting. We did 5,100 votes for the hour compare to like 600 once it was over

That’s great! I really think we should focus a lot on the PCAs for the next two weeks since there is no Once until Dec 1st and voting closes on Dec 5th. Who do we get to spread the word??? We need lots of graphics etc.!!!

@rumplegoldfan – love your thoughts on Captain Charming and Daddy!Charming, and it really only makes sense to develop that relationship between Killian and David, since you know, Killian is his future son-in-law lol!!!! 😉

Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss

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