The Captain Swan thread!

[MysteryKat25]

I was considering writing the longest post to date and decided to bite my tongue. Surayya – I feel your pain. Instead let’s just remember a couple fun little facts:

HE’S A PIRATE…but he has a code, and you don’t mess with pirate code unless you want Captain Teague to snap another guitar string! Enough said.

And possibly my favorite Captain Hook trivia of all time:

“Walt Disney insisted on keeping Hook alive, as he said: “The audience will get to liking Hook, and they don’t want to see him killed”

Walt Disney himself said that Captain Hook was one of those villains he just couldn’t bring himself to kill off because the audience would enjoy him too much. A very wise man indeed, even if it took decades and an overhaul to accomplish such a task for some 😉

Here’s hoping the writers agree with this too…

[jolly roger]

Hook’s not good but he’s not bad either. The producers/cast/directors want us to believe that Hook is not evil because they had introduced him as a broken man who had lost his love. All the other ‘villians’ (Regina, Cora, Rumple etc.) have been introduced as evil villians, and it wasn’t until later in the series that we actually see why they are bad. Hook was different – and they did this purposefully. This was planned. It’s not like they took time writing the script and filming the episode, aired it, and then thought ‘Uh oh, we weren’t supposed to show his tragedy yet’. This is all purposefully done so that straight away the audience will sympathise him and whenever he does ‘bad’ things such as shooting Belle, we understand why he did it. When we see other people doing evil things such as Cora, we think she is just a twisted evil woman. And they want us to think that because they purposefully haven’t shown us why she does that. They want us to hate her, but want us to sympathise Hook.
I don’t care how many times people say ‘But he shot Belle! He captured Archie! He killed a guard!’. I don’t care! It’s not going to change my mind. And it’s not going to change the fact that this was all done purposefully.
If they really wanted us to believe that he is an evil person, they wouldn’t have shown us his tragedy straight away as they had done with every other character.

All that matters to me is that he is the perfect match for Emma. I don’t care what arguments people come up with, it’s not going to change the fact that Emma and Hook will be together and I believe are true love. And it’s not going to change the fact that Hook will soon let go of his revenge for Emma.

And I just want to point out one thing- Before Hook’s episode even aired, Colin was bumped up to series regular. Hook’s hand was in season 1 in the episode where Rumple takes Belle to his castle. So they had planned him since season 1. Neal has been in 4 episodes and is still a guest star. These things aren’t done by accident. Just a little something to think about.

[MysteryKat25]

Everyone is shades of grey and I love it. I agree with Jolly Roger on the planned thing: the writers have always wanted to bring in Peter Pan characters but couldn’t get the rights last season. So as far as I’m concerned, even though Hook is “new” this season, he was always meant to play a big part.

It’s like last season when they said we may not learn who Henry’s father is for awhile and then bam: they get the rights and Bae is brought to present day. Nothing is done haphazardly, we just can’t see all the strings being pulled.

Hindsight is 20/20 and it makes this one of the easiest shows to rewatch because there is ALWAYS something new to discover. 🙂

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[kfchimera]

To save time, I’m not going to go back and quote specifically, but my first post in this thread was directly in response to statements made in this thread about Hook’s character, so I felt it appropriate to discuss here. Sorry it was a little off topic from the relationship between the two, and while there are some other points I would otherwise respond to about how one defines things like evil and rates the various characters, that is better discussed elsewhere. So I’ll try to put the context of Emma and Hook back in to the point I was really trying to make.

The bottom line for me is that Hook is an interesting character, that could have a potential storyline of redemption through a new love with Emma. But of course, if one takes the view that everything he’s done was fair game, by his code and the world he’s come from, to its logical conclusion, then, he doesn’t need redemption! Perhaps that opens up a different angle on how he would interact with Emma, maybe he shakes up her notions of what is good and bad. But if you want a redemption storyline, then its ok for him to be judged as having done bad things, so Emma can be the one to show him goodness.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[surayya]

I too agree with jollyroger on the whole planned thing…. reading this thread always has me wanting to go back & re-watch this season for the little things I missed but others picked up & looking for other little ‘tells’ 😉

I Agree with you 100% MysteryKat25! Love this version of Hook & as I’m a very compassionate person, I always want to see the bad guys redeemed rather than killed out right lol 😉

KFChimera, as I said, the stuff you have taken a disliking to in what I posted, were not blanket posts about Hook personally, they were posts directed at those who had come in here, stating he was evil & if not as bad, then worse than Rumple, Regina & Cora- simply because he injured/shot Belle/ was after Rumple (obviously character’s they love dearly, but still no excuse to use double standards imo, despite the fact I understand why they are saying what they are saying) & so couldn’t ever be with Emma etc.
I didn’t use quotes, as it came from a number of individual posts & that I think, is where your confusion is coming from over exactly what I was referring to- that point was in no way a general character statement- it was simply a direct response to the situation spoken of further back.
Most of the stuff you pointed out I agree with 🙂

As I already said, I don’t think he is ‘evil’, but nor do I think he is ‘good’ either (yet), again, the same as jollyroger.
Personally I feel, as he is now, he does still need redemption for the bad choices he’s made- he shot someone & he needs to let go of the past etc- but over all it doesn’t change that I feel he has been shown as an honourable man (from what we’ve seen so far), who is making & acting on some bad choices out of grief & anger right now (kind of like Emma did/has done)- it doesn’t excuse his actions to date by any means- but in the grand scheme of things OUaT, he hasn’t been portrayed as ‘evil’ like some would have everyone believe (he may even get darker yet in his desperation, before he starts to change- we’ll just have to wait & see) 😉

I almost see him as a milder version of Rumple in lots of ways personally, but at the end of the day I too find his character interesting & look forward to seeing him evolve personally & along side Emma. It’s also why I like CS in general- they actually compliment each other really well 🙂

[kfchimera]

@Surayya wrote:

Most of the stuff you pointed out I agree with 🙂

Thanks for actually reading what I wrote, rather than lumping it in with those previous posters then.

So here is another thing the writers might play with for Emma and Hook. He has two names, but most of the FTL people have one far as I can recall. Is he actually from another land originally? Maybe ours, though I realize the original character by Barie is very different. There’s also a hint in Barie’s play that Hook is from the aristocracy of England since in the novel version it says that he went to Eton and it says something like Hook’s identity would shock the nation. So the Ouat time writers could play with that and reveal that Hook is (like Emma is, because of Snow and Charming) displaced royalty…..not that Emma takes much notice of her status as a Princess, but it is a potential parallel.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[obisgirl]

In SyFy’s Neverland, Hook was originally from the same London as Peter, but he had fallen out of society and was trying to find a way to get back up there and Peter and the would-be Lost Boys were thieves working for him.

CS tumblr fans are awesome. This is another really long post, comparing CS acts to Rumbelle and Snowing.

[MysteryKat25]

Thanks so much for linking that obisgirl!

One of the thing that cracks me up about Emma tying Hook up constantly is it reminds me so much of the Charming trapping Snow in the net. Emma is very much like her parents but taken to an extreme and it’s cute. Plus she only tied him up the first time because she was afraid of herself trusting him too much, there were extreme feelings in that moment that she was afraid of (I think people skip that part of the dialogue a lot).

Definitely lots of parallels with the other big couples on the show (most importantly Snow). I know many use the thief thing as a parallel but Neal isn’t the only thief in town, we have a pirate too! (I have a feeling they really like putting in parallels with both pairings to keep their options open and let whatever grow naturally and people see what they want to see and both have logical lines. That being said I *realllllly* want Captain Swan!

We need more CaptainSwan interaction pronto!

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[obisgirl]

I haven’t listened to this yet but Jane Espenson did an interview and bits of interview, she referenced CS.

She talks about how there are some similarities between Hook and Spike (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer). I’m starting to see some of the similarities too. Of course, I could not stand Spuffy (Buffy and Spike, die-hard Angel fan). But I get it.

I also see a bit of Mal and Inara (from Firefly but another Joss Whedon production) in CS.

[PriceofMagic]

@obisgirl wrote:

She talks about how there are some similarities between Hook and Spike (from Buffy the Vampire Slayer). I’m starting to see some of the similarities too. Of course, I could not stand Spuffy (Buffy and Spike, die-hard Angel fan). But I get it.

The thing with Spuffy is that Spike loved Buffy more than she loved him. Buffy used Spike. Even when she finally said “I love you” to Spike when he was about to die, he knew she didn’t truly mean it “No you don’t, but thanks for saying it”.

Could Emma use Hook? Possibly. If Tamara and Neal are still together next season then Emma may want to show Neal that she has moved on too and Hook would be in position to play that part. As much as I think Hook wouldn’t want a long term commitment to Emma, I think he would be a bit peeved if Emma was using him like that. I would actually feel a tiny bit of sympathy for Hook if Emma was to do that to him.

All magic comes with a price!

Keeper of Felix

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