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k”>OMG you guys!! We have a podcast dedicated to Captain Swan!!!
OMG that’ll be fun!!! Did you see the Star Wars parallel at the end of my post before yours?? It’s not too spoilery, you’ll LOVE it 🙂
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
I did.
I’m listening to the episode now. They talk about how Neal needs to be punched by Charming and then talk about other positive CS stuff. These girls are so funny and some of them, I already follow on tumblr so that’s awesome too.
https://twitter.com/KitMoxie/status/407612306869067776
And we know Wesley and Buttercup end up together.
I’m listening to the episode now. They talk about how Neal needs to be punched by Charming and then talk about other positive CS stuff. These girls are so funny and some of them, I already follow on tumblr so that’s awesome too.
Ooooh I’m all excited now. Might save them for the hiatus though – it’s going to be hard going and i’ll need some CS goodness in my life about then!!!! 🙂
Thanks for posting that tweet!!! MY NEXT QUESTION IS – WHEN ARE WE GETTING THE THIRD?
And we know Wesley and Buttercup end up together.
Not only that but they were TL and they had the kiss that surpassed them all etc.
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Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
HO HO HO – I’m CS Santa, and I have a lovely gift for you today!! (well actually I didn’t make it but I delivered it that has to count for something?)
Soooooooooooo pretty, we have so many talented shipmates!
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
So many wonderful little nods, even in an episode that was focused more on parent/child! LOVE getting yet another “As you wish” with an added bonus of “my lady” – can’t wait for it to be “my love!”
Seriously, are they even trying anymore? Was so excited when I saw that tweet even though obviously it was scripted in. They know the fanbase was having a meltdown about it before Good Form even aired and that they’re doing this on purpose. Adding another one in was wonderful and she looked up to him when he said it (and Charming – the other half of my BrOTP – was there as well lol).
The eyes…oh the eyes. I worked on my metas on tumblr last night (safer/easier to ignore all the negative stuff) and talked about the eyes from that one clip where Emma is talking to Neal and Hook walks off. Her eyes follow him til he’s completely off screen and THEN she turns back to actually look at the person she’s talking to (Neal).
I didn’t even think about the Han/Leia thing! It was completely unnecessary otherwise because it wasn’t a shippy episode and they were working well together and hadn’t been bringing anything up. I thought it was a good point about how it was going to work without a pegasus sail because that is all Hook knows DOES work. His ship didn’t need to be criticized in the process. It’s all he has.
(By the way how DID the ship get fixed? Did they just have the Lost Boys fix it or something? Rumple was in a box, Regina and Emma were off dealing with Pan…who fixed it??)
Regina’s lines…she is definitely picking up on CS! Earlier in the season she referred to Hook as “Emma’s boyfriend.” Now, after NOT BEING IN THE ECHO CAVES or seeing any of this other stuff go down because she’s been off on her own with Rumple, Neal is just “this….person” *waves hands dismissively* and adds in that Emma has “a pirate who pines for you” – big flashy neon sign that we’re supposed to be remembering that Hook cares for her too. (Also of note – we don’t see Neal’s reaction to any of that even though he’s RIGHT THERE. We see HOOK’s reactions to a lot of intimate moments with various people and Emma, but Neal is there and we see nothing).
Same thing with Henry being alive. We see his parents and grandparents etc relieved, but we spend a lot of time on Hook offering his quarters for Henry to rest in. He hasn’t even SPOKEN to Henry before, and get more out of him than most of the other characters. The only thing he was left out of was all the hugging going on. LOVED that he was standing next to Charming though! Shows how far he’s come that he now gets to stand next to one of the biggest “heroes” of the group side-by-side. They’ve been in shot together before plenty but this was as a united front! (Charming is on our side guys, he just doesn’t want to admit it yet. I will never get over that gif of him tossing Hook his sword and Neal’s just watching with “HUH?” written all over his face lol).
Once again on the ship we have Hook looking down and watching to see if someone is alive. He hasn’t even met Henry until now and he’s anxious and then relieved when he wakes up. Again, everyone there BUT HIM have reason to be worried/relieved about Henry but he is shown right in the middle of it as a reminder that he’s looking out for him too. He’s not just this “pirate” who will be horrible with kids. It’s a POSITIVE interaction with Henry that leads to the future.
Love how Hook’s reaction to random moments are shown but no one else’s. Just like with the Charming/Emma hug goodbye in camp with the lost boys the other day, we see Hook standing right behind the person Emma is looking toward during a significant part of her speech in this episode. We see her parents reaction when she mentions that she learned TODAY just how loved she is. (Hmm, interesting that she said that – considering that it came after Regina’s speech about how she has her parents, and “this…person” and “a pirate who pines for you” – in this speech we see her look at her parents and then turn around to tell Felix to knock it off because if she could find it he could too, but the thing is…she’s speaking in general too. And because of where Felix is located, it’s hard to see exactly who she’s looking at in that moment with her eyeline, but Hook is standing right behind him, keeping him in line. Right after she says that and looks in that direction, Hook is seen swallowing hard (and likely, hoping it means there’s hope for him yet, even if she was talking to Felix).
Once again, when she looks off toward where a couple of people are standing (Hook/Tink or Hook/Felix), HOOK is in the shot. First time being “we’re all going home, together” when only Hook and Tink were in the area, and now if I could find it you can too with Hook/Felix in the area. Somehow I don’t think she’s overly invested in the idea of either Tink or Felix, even if it makes sense to be talking to them (or the whole group of Lost Boys in this case but she was trying to win Felix over since he was causing all the problems right then). Know who we didn’t see? … (The lack of shots with him in key moments is rather odd, don’t you think? Why keep showing us Hook if we’re not meant to see CS, albeit it subtle and in the background of moments that aren’t shippy? Lots of missed opportunity to show Neal and make it less lopsided, right?)
Speaking of which – Emma finally had reason to smile with Neal being around (hear me out on this). She observed the moments she needed to that actually made her happy. What were these? Well the one that comes to mind in big flashy signs is him reuniting with Rumple, aka one of the biggest parts of his story. That didn’t hurt her, that helped her go to Snowing. The only times we see Emma with a smile on her face around Neal are when he’s involved with Rumple or Henry. THOSE are the moments we’re supposed to see so we’re shown her seeing them. It doesn’t change how she feels, but they’re the things she can actually be happy about for him and for their large twisted family with everyone getting along down the line as well. Emma is our eyes through a lot of things and it highlights Neal’s story a bit more – the one we’ve been saying all along is more about Rumple and Henry than Emma.
The Rumple/Neal reunion. THIS TIMES A MILLION. Loved it. Loved that Neal finally saw what his father has been telling him all along. He came back for him. THAT IS HUGE. Why? Because it shows a BIG DIFFERENCE in the storytelling between certain things. Emma is no saint and she abandoned Henry and she is lucky that he wants so badly to be in her life (same with Hook really, she’s abandoned him multiple times too), but overall, abandonment is a killer with everyone else. Snowing meant well and trusted her to find them and then they’d be there forever after that. It hurt Emma, but they were there ASAP AFTER THE CURSE BROKE to start trying to make things up to her. Emma hugs Snowing DIRECTLY AFTER seeing the Rumple/Neal reunion where Neal realized that his papa CAME BACK FOR HIM. It took a long time and he did a lot of awful things, but it was all out of love and HE CAME BACK FOR HIM, NEVER GIVING UP in that quest.
What’s different you might ask? Well it goes back to what happened after Tallahassee. It doesn’t matter how scared Neal was or that he thought he was doing the right thing by her getting her back to her family. By the time we see him in Selfless, Brave, and True, with a postcard practically right around the corner, he’s more afraid of his father coming after him. He’s made himself believe that Emma wouldn’t want to see him and she’s better off where she is and she’s with her family so it’s fine, but she’s not. She’s not with her family UNTIL SHE BREAKS THE CURSE which he suddenly doesn’t seem like he wants broken at all. In Manhattan he tells her he wanted her with her family (which she now is that the curse is broken) but is upset that his father is there. He even offers her a way to never have to see him again that she tries to take him up on, after a conversation that mirrors Milah/Rumple. (Parallels are important!)
The point being: Rumple spent centuries doing whatever it took to get back to him, just like Regina did a lot of things she should regret but it got her to Henry so it DOES NOT MATTER to her because her kid, like Rumple with his, means everything. Same with Emma letting Regina take the Lost Boy’s heart. It got her back to her kid without completely crossing her own moral lines. Neal DID NOT COME BACK for Emma. He decided she was better off without him and moved on with his life, even once she was back in it. He never came back, he never tried. Rumple had a MUCH better reason to give up ages ago and think that Bae was better off but he couldn’t, because he needed Bae to know that he hated himself for letting go of him in the portal. He needed his son to know HOW MUCH HE REGRETTED doing that and that he would never let him go again. (Lots of parallels with other parent/child relationships in this episode especially).
Neal is important and will always be there and his key stuff is with Rumple and Henry and he’s starting to understand why his relationship with Rumple is different to other things. It’s in HIS OWN WORDS that his dad came back for him and he’s realized that he was always doing that and he’s forgiven him BECAUSE OF THAT. Already this season, we’ve seen him mention his regrets (not to Emma) and say how scared he was (not to Emma) and that he blew it (not to Emma) but now he’s acknowledging what IS redeemable in Rumple because AT LEAST HE TRIED. In 3×01, Mulan tells Neal:
Your belief in love wasn’t strong enough to overcome your fear of rejection
which is the exact opposite of what Rumple did even though he had excellent reasons for giving up. We know that Neal is aware of these things. It’s what was driving him to hope for his 2nd chance with Emma. I’ll be very curious to see how things are handled later on because I really want Neal to be more Bae-like (and he has his moments, I’m hoping we see more of them!), but he’s also verbally recognizing some of these things that are rather…conflicting. He wants his 2nd chance with Emma, but he wouldn’t give his dad more chances. Now he’s realized that his dad came back for him and praises him for actually coming back, when he did none of that with Emma.
Neal and Hook are supposed to be coming to some agreement I think in 3×10 which will hopefully consist of letting Emma choose and stopping the petty squabbling. I want them to repair THEIR relationship and stop acting like children so I think it’s likely this will happen. With that said, I still hope that at some point, Neal recognizes that he’s praising Rumple for doing something to win him over, that he never did to win Emma over on the whole 2nd chance path. I think with the way he’s been written this season though that he’ll come to that conclusion. MRJ even said in an interview that Emma doesn’t owe Neal anything which is telling because his character is in freefall with a ton of emotions but before that interview it was all EMMA EMMA EMMA and now it’s more well, maybe it won’t be that. We said that at the end of Dark Hollow even because he was more understanding that it might be that Henry’s the one good thing that came from them being together. I have hope for him yet.
NO IDEA still what the BTS pics with FTL clothes are since things are so jumbled so we’ll have to wait and see but Neal is looking more like Baelfire and Hook is there and everyone is smiling so I hope they’re working together and getting along. I’m a bit concerned that A&E made it sound like we won’t have a resolution to the Emma situation for awhile because she’s not quite there yet (and she does have a LOT to process still) but at the same time I feel like her choice has basically been made she just can’t see it yet. I’m waiting to see what gigantic obstacle the new curses entails and figure out where everything fits in – like with Hook being in NY hugging her and then we see him in the red vest in FTL with people he didn’t know before. *brain freeze* I just really want everyone getting along and I’ll be so happy when the triangle is officially dead. Sadly that won’t be for awhile regardless because everyone will always have hope for their ship, as they should, but I’m tired of stumbling upon anti-FAN stuff when I go to look something up. We’re entitled to love CS as much as they’re entitled to hate it, but I can’ stand what this fandom is doing to each other as fans.
Back to this episode’s goodies!
Charming echoed Emma’s words when he was praising her. He said he didn’t think they could all work together, heroes, villains, a pirate *insert small smile/smirk from both of them* – and that the one thing that kept them united and together was Emma as their leader. He could have stopped at saying he wasn’t sure how they’d all work together. He already had his big over-reacting moment in 3×01 at the idea of it, but he said it again AND singled out Hook as a pirate again instead of lumping him in with the heroes and villains, just like Emma.
This is the 3rd time (if I’m not mistaken) that Charming has talked to Emma about Hook for no apparent reason:
- The elaborate story of how Hook saved him when Hook didn’t think he should say anything (Charming wanted them all to know how grateful he was to Hook, even if the details were a bit off…)
- Charming tells Emma about Liam (sadly we didn’t get to SEE this but again, why bother with that? After learning that Hook saved Charming, we see the KISS right after. Which means that sometime during her freak-out-about-the-kiss time, Charming filled her in on why Hook may have saved him. We don’t know what details he DID include, but we know he told her about his brother dying from Dreamshade. My guess is he talked about the brother but not about the fact that Hook has feelings for her unless it was after the Echo Cave but doubtful. All we know is that AT SOME POINT, Charming told Emma about Hook’s brother and if he hates him so much, he coulda said just about anything else or nothing at all; chalking it up to “he’s a pirate, who knows why he does anything” but like Point 1, he’s talked to Emma about Hook!
- Praising Emma about being a leader and uniting all of them as mentioned above.
Charming doesn’t have to go out of his way to let Emma know anything about Hook, he chooses to. I really think we’ve got Charming and Regina in our corner for sure. (Love that Regina inherited a worthwhile observant skill from Cora, our original shipper!) Snow was standing over near Neal on the ship while Hook was standing with Charming. I think we’ve won one of them over at least which is a start! Snow has definitely been keeping an eye on Emma/Hook interaction though and she did have a small smile when Emma first mentioned the kiss before deflecting which caused Snow to jump to the Neal side again, so hopefully she’ll be won over soon.
In the crazy FTL BTS pics, it looks like Snow and Charming are getting along fine with both Hook and Neal. I want to know why Hook is on a horse (*swoon*) but at least he finally has good people to serve unlike that rotten king from Good Form, whoever he was! I’m a little worried since we don’t see people like Emma, Henry, and Rumple as to where they might be, but we know next to nothing yet. It’s gonna drive me nuts til March but at least we get pretty pictures in FTL clothes?
I’m assuming we’ll be switching Pan and Henry back before we see Rumple with the dagger so it *should* still be REAL Henry traveling with Emma and Hook. I refuse to think they’re going to take Pan with them to NY. I just don’t see the point and Henry & Hook need their bonding time and Emma needs to see Hook with Henry for this to move forward, even if she hasn’t made a choice yet. I’m…completely lost on what happens in NY, where Henry goes when Emma & Hook are out on the streets, what the potion is, why Hook is arrested, who Chris Gorham is playing etc, but I have faith it’ll make more sense later on. I just need Hook and Henry to bond!
Regardless of who she chooses, JMO has already said that Hook is and always will be important to Emma so that means he’s staying and should therefore start getting along with more people. In the BTS pics both from the ship coming to SB and the FTL gibberish that we can’t decipher yet, Hook is a part of the group. In fact, with the dock pictures, Hook is up with the Charmings while Neal is in the back of the group with Wendy and her brothers and some of the other people there. We know Hook goes with Emma somewhere to do something, details are fuzzy, but he’s still a part of things, and then of course there’s the NY stuff.
So I fully expect him to be continuing to prove himself helpful and a part of things in the future, especially if Emma has anything to say about it. Pretty sure Charming will be in his corner as well. Right now I think Charming (as protective as he is), sees some goodness in Hook and would be open to CS if it’s what Emma wants. He’s been in her position, they need to talk more (preferably ON SCREEN), but I think he’ll ultimately get it. Hook has been going through ProtectiveDaddyCharmingBootcamp and passing with flying colors, making great strides this season so I’m not too worried about that. As for Cora / Regina – the other CS observers, they have no invested interest. To them it’s almost more of an annoyance – Cora being betrayed because he was drawn to Emma, Regina having to put up with Emma always taking his side on things. To me that carries more weight than someone who is already in someone’s corner because they have to be. Rumple doesn’t want Neal to get hurt so of course he’s on Neal’s side. Henry will probably want his parents together, but he’s also a big proponent of TL and likely to realize down the line that they’re better as friends. (I think he’ll like having Hook around too and it’ll help to see him with Charming as well).
I seriously don’t think that they built up this big redemption story for Hook, and showed just HOW DEVOTED and loyal he is when he loves (similar to Snowing who can’t imagine EVER loving someone else), and having him overcome that, like Regina and everyone else this season, only to put Emma back with the guy who broke her heart (well-meaning or not, he never came back to explain and if someone did that to me, and still chose his fiancee until she tried to kill him, and THEN wanted me back there’s no way anybody I know would be ok with that and it’s what EMMA feels, not how badly we feel for Neal and his “sacrifice” that apparently also included moving on with someone else even when Emma is standing right in front of him pouring her heart out about how painful it is to see him with her).
I just can’t see Hook turning around after she chooses Neal and then bam, he’s got a new love interest. I also don’t see the ONE CHARACTER we have been shown who loves fiercely and does everything he does through love, not end up with a happy ending. We also don’t have 300 more years for him to get through for us to see him find someone new. It would be completely tragic, especially since it looks like both Rumple and Regina will have their true loves in Belle and Robin Hood. From what we know of Hook’s character, it just doesn’t add up, whereas we’ve heard and seen Neal several times alude to the idea that he can (and has…) move on, and that Henry might be the only good thing between them. They will be in each others lives no matter what, but he’s already proven that he can leave her behind and, as much as it hurt him to do so initially, was prepared to do it again and again because he was too afraid to go back and try (which goes against EVERYTHING we have seen from TL couples – with TL on this show, if there’s even a CHANCE that the other could be alive, they do whatever it takes to get back to them. Neal knew she was out there and did nothing.)
To me, it is very much like Rumple with this whole 1st love / other love / true love thing. I can’t remember who said it and whether it was here or tumblr or both but let’s compare:
Rumple:
1st love – Milah (son together but not right for each other)
Other love – Cora (psycho)
True Love – Belle (brings out the best in him)
Neal:
1st love – Emma (son together but not right for each other)
Other love – Tamara (psycho doesn’t even begin to cover it)
True Love – ____ ? (brings out the best in him)
Likewise, compare Emma and Hook:
Hook :
1st love – Milah (painful loss but never brought out the best in him)
Flirt / whatever – (never enough to overcome loss of first love)
True Love – Emma (brings out the best in him; work well as a TEAM and respect each other; makes him want to move on from first love)
Emma:
1st love – Neal (painful loss but never brought out the best in her)
One-night-stands / whatever – (never enough to overcome loss of first love)
True Love – Killian Jones (brings out the best in her; work well as a TEAM and respect each other; makes her want to move on from first love)
With a second “As you wish” and everything else we’ve been shown from quotes to camera angles to how things are presented to us, and then the comparisons to couples that we know end up together, on top of parallels to Snowing and parallels for N/E to Milah/Rumple, I just…I can’t start doubting now. It’s not gonna be smooth sailing and they’re gonna drag it out longer than any of us want (I can’t handle it over too many more hiatuses though grr), but I really think with the way they’ve built it up so far this season, that Emma will choose Hook, it’s a matter of when, not if. The language has been pretty clear on that so far.
She will always have a place in her heart for Neal and it’ll be tough to get past for a bit because he’s right there and he’s wanting another chance and sometimes it’s hard to think about the bad stuff when you’re reminded of the good stuff, but I really don’t think she’s going back. They just haven’t been setting them up in line with all the other TL couples on the show. They haven’t. I was afraid they would be this season. That suddenly they were going to try and make us believe that both guys really have a chance but I’m not seeing that. I’m seeing tons of places where they could have made me panic but it’s having the opposite affect right now.
They may do that in the second half, I’m not sure. Neal is on a path to embrace more of his Baelfire side (or so it seems) which will likely just make it more difficult for Emma, but I really just don’t think they can go back to what they were over a decade ago, and it’s a matter of them realizing that. They weren’t “bad” together BACK THEN but they also didn’t have the “make each other the best versions of themselves” thing like all the other couples we’ve seen (or at least the TL ones who have been featured heavily) and we also haven’t seen the complete BELIEF and SUPPORT that we see from the other couples like we have seen with Emma & Hook. It really doesn’t matter what happened over a decade ago, if that same complete belief and support isn’t there *now* – it doesn’t. We’ve seen Emma embracing her magic this season and Neal’s reaction to THAT is always shown, whereas they leave him out of the CS moments while Hook is seen during SF or Charming/Emma moments. It just…I can’t add it up any other way. It’s too lopsided.
Adam has said for a long time that they’re not writing a triangle, they’re telling a story. In the past, triangles have been obstacles but we’ve always known who was supposed to end up together and watching them be drawn to that person even when another option presents itself whether they remember who they are or not. So what is the point of having one? There isn’t. It is literally here is Emma’s past which haunted her for ages, showing how it affects a shot at something real, and then overcoming it and finding who she’s meant to be with. Hmm, sounds kinda like Hook: seeing his past, showing how it affects the choices he makes that could lead to something real with someone else, overcoming it and finding who he’s meant to be with.
The whole season has been about these things! Showing us how TL should look and embracing who people really are and letting go of the pasts that have damaged their potential at anything new. Regina has faced that with Daniel and Robin Hood (she’s getting there at least), Hook with Milah and Emma. It’s just a matter of timing with Neal and getting the “triangle” situation cleared up and then somebody BETTER FOR HIM will appear.
This is not about who’s better Neal or Hook. This isn’t about who “deserves” THE central character. Just because Emma is VASTLY IMPORTANT to the show does not mean that she’s just the best thing ever and that any guy who doesn’t end up with her is getting stuck with someone awful just to have someone. It means that whoever is left IS NOT RIGHT FOR EMMA which means that they ARE RIGHT FOR SOMEONE ELSE and at the end of the day, EVERY character should be with whoever their TRUE LOVE is, not who we as an audience think should get the main girl on the show.
Neal will be around no matter what, he’s part of the twisted family and has a lot of story with Rumple and Henry and he’s the main reason for the curse in the first place. JMO has already said that no matter what, Hook is and always will be important to Emma (because he came back for her, something nobody else – other than Henry – has done; interesting how that seems to be a reason but we get called delusional for putting any emphasis on it. It’s also another parallel from her TL with Henry to Hook!)
Both guys will always be around. So why can’t we want for both of them to actually end up with who they’re supposed to be with? Their TRUE LOVES, whoever that may be? I’m a huge Killian fan. I want him to be HAPPY and the way they’ve written his story, I don’t see how that could be with anyone but Emma. If that’s what they want me to believe, they are falling WAY BEHIND on making it happen and will make it feel very odd if they shove it in later. I want him to not end up alone but I want it to be BELIEVABLE and the way they’ve written his loyalty and undying love, I can’t imagine him moving on from Emma while she’s alive, or getting over her death in the amount of time we have for the show.
Likewise, I’m sure there are many who love Neal (I like him as a character outside of his relationship with Emma, and I actually want him HAPPY TOO – plus of course I love Bae), who want him to be happy. OF COURSE it will hurt if he loses Emma again. But he’s already shown that he can move on so it’s a matter of when that will happen. RIGHT NOW he’s focused on Emma (even though he was engaged a week ago and still hasn’t dealt with it) but at the end of all this, I want him to be with who HIS True Love is. If it’s their TRUE LOVE, nobody is settling for 2nd best or taking what they can get because they lost the one. They’re NOT the one if it’s not the true love. They’re just not.
The way they’ve written Neal, while he obviously has feelings for Emma, he also has a lot of other stuff going on, it hasn’t been paralleled to the other TLs on the show, and he’s already proven he can move on and said he can move on if he knows she’s happy. I would hope at the end of the day that we want ALL 3 CHARACTERS to find who they’re actually supposed to be with, rather than just hoping that our favorite guy gets “THE girl.”
Milah and Rumple was tragic, as was Rumple and Cora. If we saw their stories in linear progression, hoping that they wouldn’t get hurt RIGHT THEN, would have been extremely painful. It was only in SEEING that better things lay ahead for him that it became “ok” to block that stuff out. Milah/Rumple is very very similar to Emma/Neal. (It’s why it scares me that if Emma hurts Neal the fanbase will turn on her and some of it already has…) but when push comes to shove, Rumple BELONGS with Belle. He didn’t know that all those years ago when he was hurt BADLY and then hurt AGAIN by Cora (like Neal with Emma and then Tamara under different circumstances at least), but now he has BELLE and it’s BEAUTIFUL. I love RumBelle!
I expect the same thing for Neal and they’ve written him in such a way that while Neal/Emma and Neal/Tamara were tragic in their own ways for him, he WILL end up with whoever he is SUPPOSED to be with. They’ve written him in a way that he CAN move on and that when he does, it’ll be because he’s actually moved on and not because he lost his first choice. It’ll be because he genuinely loves the other person and realizes how wrong the earlier ones were for him.
Rumple figured that out when he found out Milah was alive and had willingly run off with Hook. It hurt him more that she abandoned Bae. By the time we see him with Cora again, he’s in love with Belle and Cora, while she’ll probably always have a little piece of his heart because he remembers caring for her, is of no importance. She’s in the past. He has Belle now. I want the same for Neal. Like Emma said, they’ll always love each other. But that doesn’t have to mean that they’re IN love with one another and will never love anyone else. Emma didn’t let herself care about anyone until she thought Neal was officially in the past and dead, and then when he came back before she had time to process that, she crumbled and pushed it down. Neal knew she was out there somewhere and decided that it didn’t matter and tried to move on. The woman he moved on with was psycho but I have faith he will find whoever he is MEANT to be with and that’s all that matters. It’s tragic AT THE TIME, but it can’t be/won’t be True Love if it’s not with the actual, you know, TL. Just saying.
As for the manipulation stuff from Pan – completely agree with everything that has been said here. It’s kinda sickening, especially since we know how Emma feels about the idea that her relationship with Neal was orchestrated by someone (though she thought it was him or his father. Emma – you forgot a generation, just go up one). Seriously, I can’t see how it WASN’T orchestrated. Neal left NL at a convenient time, they just happened to find each other in the real world and make a child that Pan so desperately wanted that he send the Darling boys to go adopt Henry in Boston – a place where the kid shouldn’t have been in the first place since he was born in Phoenix. TOO MANY COINCIDENCES. Emma is big on CHOICE and doesn’t like having her entire life be one big manipulation by forces beyond her control. That’s why with Emma it needs to BE a choice and it’s up to her and her alone. (And I really truly believe for enough reasons I could probably write 5 books on, that her choice will be Killian. It’s just a matter of time).
As for proving that….I don’t think they really can anytime soon. Every way that we’ve heard of for proving it has some loophole that I can come up with that potentially makes it null and void. Their interviews about various things are confusing at best (I refuse to believe they meant to imply the outcome of the triangle where there are so many loopholes on Henry’s heart it’s ridiculous), and there’s too many onscreen loopholes as well. (Not that all of their interviews are taken in 100% trust or many would have stopped theorizing years ago that Blue was bad or sneaky) but each way of proving anything *potentially – depending on how they present it* has a massive loophole.
The only thing that might not, since they used it as 100% proof earlier this season for Regina and Robin Hood (followed by them saying it was proof) would be the pixie dust (which, conveniently, Tink now has! She just needs her wings back first but maybe after that – which I’m guessing will take some time…. – she could use it on her good friend Hook and have it lead to Emma or vice versa.) Anything else could be questionable since we know she “loves” Neal genuinely but that doesn’t mean it has to be that they’re IN love. The dust shows soulmate / who they’re meant to be with (as per Tink and A&E) so I have a feeling we may be waiting on Tink to go on a quest to get her wings back before we have any definitive answers. I doubt they’ll go to Blue to settle this, and, I really hope that when we find out, it’s because Emma has made a choice and THEN Tink offers to help prove it for whoever still doubts it kind of thing IF they feel the need to go that route. I’d love it if Emma’s word on whatever was enough, but then there will always be doubts of some kind and every “proof” has a loophole so far so…until we know more, hopefully her choice will be enough to convince the characters and the fans and we can be rid of this stupid “triangle” perpetuated by the fans even though we’ve seen saying this from the beginning.
I seriously was afraid of this season because I thought they would amp up the triangle and make it a free-for-all but I am more and more convinced that it really isn’t one. It’s about letting go of the past so that she can get to the future she’s meant to, just like Regina, Hook, and Neal eventually too. That’s the journey they’re on right now.
So many wonderful things even in a non-shippy episode. They’re REMINDING US that Hook and Emma have this thing going on, even when they don’t share quiet moments alone. They’re keeping it at the forefront of our minds just like they have all season, and now that they’re home (though they now have the obstacle of fixing Henry and then goodness knows what will happen after that), that’s when the fun begins!
So keep calm & ship CaptainSwan. Have faith! (And cookies, rum, coconuts, whatever else you wish). There’s still a VERY good chance we’re right about all of this and that she will choose him. Look how far we’ve come!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
k”>OMG you guys!! We have a podcast dedicated to Captain Swan!!!
oh hell yeah I’m following that from now one lol
Something to think about (shorter I promise!) but that keeps coming up with regards to this episode: the Hook/Neal mini-spat.
The guys have been fairly good about focusing on the mission and doing their part whatever that may be. We haven’t really seen THEM interact much but they’ve been volunteering to help however they can and doing what Emma asks them to. Simple right? So what was with the mini-spat?
Neal is giving out his plan of escape in miniscule sections. Only what is absolutely needed each step of the way. The rest of it is literally “trust me this’ll work” with people who…have various reasons to doubt even though they do trust that he wants Henry safe and to get home. It’s the one thing they can trust him with.
Here’s the thing though. Hook has history with Neverland and Peter Pan as much if not moreso than Neal does. Sure he didn’t escape in the same fashion, but it’s one of the reasons that Emma relies on him for information: she trusts his judgement and knows he’s been here before too. He tells her everything he knows about something and tries his best not to get her hopes up. He believes that they will find a way out, but he still isn’t sure of the exact details of the plan. Only what little bits here and there that Neal is throwing out.
We know that, to Hook, the way to travel in and out of Neverland consists of one of two things:
- Pegasus sail – which he destroyed ages ago
- Magic bean – which nobody has
So TO HOOK – he is concerned about what the plan is. He doesn’t know how the magic coconut trapped shadow is going to get them out of there. He is asking LEGIT QUESTIONS about what the plan is and saying he hopes that Neal has something up his sleeve because he knows he destroyed the easiest way to get out of NL – the pegasus sail. In that moment he is probably kicking himself even though it happened decades if not centuries before Emma or Henry were even born. He never wanted ANYBODY to have to go to NL, the place that basically killed his brother, ever again. But in THIS moment, he is realizing that that stupid sail that he destroyed is exactly what might be needed. So he is WORRIED about the plan that he’s getting in tiny little pieces because Neal hasn’t explained it.
That tension is of course still there between the men for various reasons (a big part of that being Emma of course) but Hook is literally questioning the plan because he doesn’t know what it is! Just that they have to use the coconut somehow but he’s banking on Neal being right about something without having any reason to and it CONCERNS HIM. He hopes that Neal’s plan will work. He needs it to work. But he has history with Neverland as well and isn’t being consulted on any of this so he doesn’t know what Neal has in mind.
Neal’s response to that is to take offense because he knows he’s gotten out of NL before (even though Pan implied it was only because he let him out), and that Hook should just trust him cause it’s his kid that’s involved, not Hook’s. Layer that with wanting to impress Emma and of course he’s upset! His knee-jerk reaction, however, is to insult Hook’s ship…which is basically all he has.
It’s a credit to them that this little spat didn’t escalate as it very well could have. It was a sharp rib to both of them but that trust hasn’t been there in centuries. They can work quite well together and I expect that after they come to an agreement, hopefully about letting Emma choose and letting things go and repairing their friendship that they’ll get along a lot better and of course, someday they’ll have to once Emma has made a choice. I really want the CaptainFire friendship back too though!
That said, all I keep seeing is “yay Neal for not taking Hook’s bait” from that conversation and I just want to scream. Neal insulted the ONE thing that has been consistent in Hook’s life. The ship is his HOME, is the one possession he has that really means anything to him, houses a lot of bad memories etc etc. It is EXTREMELY personal to him, and Neal just insulted it.
This is on BOTH of them. It’s not one egging the other on. It’s both and thankfully they didn’t do anything because of it. They went and did what they had to do for the sake of all. It was full of tension for them yes, but it was a legit question to ask about the plan because Hook SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS a pegasus sail which is the only way he knows to leave other than a bean (as far as we know) and nobody has one of those either. He’s relying heavily on a plan he knows nothing about and made a comment trying to find out what it would be and Neal isn’t budging on that other than to say the plan’s great, hope the ship holds together which implies that he doesn’t think it will. (Neal knows nothing about the state of the Jolly Roger from 3×01, last he saw it was when he drove it back from Manhattan and it was fine then, the comment from what we know he knows, was more of a dig at Hook than anything else).
Hook is big on NOT getting people’s hopes up. We saw that when he told Snowing about Neal being alive first and he actually spelled it out that they should go investigate and rescue him if he is in fact alive so that she doesn’t risk losing him a second time thinking he’s alive if it’s all a lie. Same thing here – he knows that they are all relying on this plan, but he knows nothing about it.
I will be so glad when the tension between the two stops and they can be friends again. Not EVERYTHING they ever say is about the stupid love triangle. It’s not ALWAYS about trying to one-up each other to impress Emma. I feel like Neal feels very threatened right now and reacts that way to absolutely everything Hook says, and Hook doesn’t always go about voicing his opinions on things in the right way to start things, but things get out of control when Neal starts treating it like it IS always about Emma and that nothing else matters. It’s the lighter situation 2.0, but with less shoving and just a quick verbal dig and then walk away.
They HAVE to get along in the future and I’m looking forward to scenes where they are working together and not everything is a knee-jerk reaction about Emma because I really don’t feel like everything they’ve said to each other so far is like that. Hook was legitimately worried about a plan he knows nothing about. It wasn’t as nice of a CaptainFire moment as the magic coconut / are you daft conversation was because the longer this goes on, the more Neal reads into things and gets insulted about it but for all the wrong reasons. They have to build their trust and friendship back up and put it behind them.
But I do think with regards to this specific spat, it was more a case of how are we getting out of here? which turned into “as long as your prized possession holds up, we’ll be fine” with no actual information revealed. For people who were put in their place very recently and were doing whatever Emma told them to, including Hook volunteering to stay behind while Emma goes off with Neal, Regina, and Rumple to complete part of the mission, it seemed like an unnecessary moment to have other than to show there was still a little bit of tension there. It does hark back to the Han/Luke thing with the insulting of the ship and whether it could hold together. Excellent catch on that one!
I have a feeling that for awhile, like within the fandom, everything that is said will be assumed to come back to the triangle. I’m not sure if either guy was going there, or neither, or one reacted because that’s how HE read it, but that tension will likely remain a bit, even if they’re trying to be on their best behavior and on the bright side, it didn’t result in another physical altercation.
It was interesting though that after Hook was insulted and walked off to leave them to their planning and play by team rules and all (not causing a fuss, letting Emma deal with everything as she needed to which right then was to map out a strategy with Neal etc, and he was walking away and not starting a fight but was clearly insulted by what Neal said which was obviously meant as a little dig at him moreso than the ship), Emma’s eyes followed him and looked hurt for him, and THEN she turned back to finish her conversation with Neal and she didn’t bring it up at all.
When Neal was hurt with stuff, she turned to Hook to find out what the deal was. Every time Hook is hurt (thinking back to what happened to him in Manhattan), Emma looks at Hook like she wishes she could do something to help but now’s not the time. She couldn’t help in NY because Rumple was hurt but they made a point of showing us Emma watching him with almost regret that she couldn’t do anything. Same thing here, she had to focus on the mission but her eyes followed him for a moment.
Reminded me too of Hook spilling his heart out in the echo cave and Emma reaching for him and looking like she was about to say something, only to be interrupted and again, not the time. Their timing has been an obstacle but the genuine worry and sympathy is there – they just haven’t gotten everything out yet. Why show us these things if they’re not important? (Also interesting that they recently spoke of timing being an obstacle with Emma’s love life and figuring things out. Every time Emma and Hook make strides, something gets in the way and prevents these little moments and conversations that are bubbling up underneath it all).
I will be so happy when they can finally admit these things to each other and have actual conversations and have Emma realize what she’s been moving toward all season even though she’s not yet ready to let herself admit it. She knows that both men have feelings for her, but she keeps him close. She lets him think he has hope. NEITHER ONE OF THEM (Hook or Emma) is big on false hope. They’ve BOTH expressed not wanting someone to get their hopes up. But here she is, not shutting him down.
I can’t wait to see what happens when they arrive in SB! Pics from the dock when they arrive have Hook right up near the Charmings which is a good sign! I really want Emma to make it clear to the people who weren’t there and don’t have a good opinion of him that Hook was actually really helpful. I want him to be included like everyone else. (I felt so bad for him that everyone else was hugging on the ship but they didn’t show him being upset so that was good. They showed us the time that mattered, when Charming hugged Emma and that’s enough for me because it was a poignant moment about not getting to say goodbye, but everyone else was getting hugs this episode so I felt bad for him). It would be even better if Emma is the one sticking up for him, and I really hope that Snow does too at some point. She was happy he saved Charming but she seems to hold Rumple in higher regard for that right now because he’s the reason she’s not going to be stuck in NL for eternity so she can stay with him. He wouldn’t even be alive if it weren’t for Hook though! They BOTH saved him. (Charming has a very complicated bromance going with arch-enemies lol!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
UGH! I want to listen to the CS podcast too, but I cant- because stupid win8 wont ‘do’ itunes Grrrrr >:( Does anyone know of any ‘fixes’ to get itunes to work on wins8? It’s driving me nuts- I even uninstalled itunes (loosing all the podcasts from last season 🙁 ) to try reinstall, only to find out itunes is still hiding ‘somewhere’ on my laptop (stupid message comes up telling me it’s still there- but wont tell me where!) & I cant figure out where it is …. win8 really sucks sometimes! :/
So many wonderful little nods, even in an episode that was focused more on parent/child! LOVE getting yet another “As you wish” with an added bonus of “my lady” – can’t wait for it to be “my love!” Seriously, are they even trying anymore?
Lol – NOPE. Of course that’s just from our perspective – but i’m pretty darn sure that ours is the correct one 😉
I thought it was a good point about how it was going to work without a pegasus sail because that is all Hook knows DOES work. His ship didn’t need to be criticized in the process. It’s all he has.
I thought he was MORE than justified being snarky in his reply about it to be honest. Especially because Neal wasn’t exactly forthcoming about his plan to get them off the island.
Also of note – we don’t see Neal’s reaction to any of that even though he’s RIGHT THERE. We see HOOK’s reactions to a lot of intimate moments with various people and Emma, but Neal is there and we see nothing
What a great point!!! 🙂 I completely forgot about it – they literally didn’t show his reaction to Regain’s comment AT ALL. Like seriously, how is it not obvious to everyone at this stage what relationship they’re developing?
Speaking of which – Emma finally had reason to smile with Neal being around (hear me out on this). She observed the moments she needed to that actually made her happy.
Oh i totally agree with what you said there. Like, even i don’t like Neal particularly but that Neal/Rumple moment touched ME, and i was so happy for him and Rumple, so OF COURSE it’s going to touch Emma when she can actually identify with his experience of abandonment. But to be honest, her emotional reaction to that was very short-lived – straight after that scene she turned to her parents and talked about how now that Rumple was back, Snowing could leave the island. ZERO lingering. I mean, when CS were on the ship/in Bae’s cave they LINGERED over their emotional reactions, even though it takes up VALUABLE screen time. It’s pretty obvious to me what relationship they’re developing. *shrugs*
And anyway, Neal’s relationship with Rumple has NO BEARING on Swanfire’s relationship. Like, it’s literally not really relevant at all to it. IMO.
I seriously don’t think that they built up this big redemption story for Hook, and showed just HOW DEVOTED and loyal he is when he loves (similar to Snowing who can’t imagine EVER loving someone else), and having him overcome that, like Regina and everyone else this season, only to put Emma back with the guy who broke her heart (well-meaning or not, he never came back to explain and if someone did that to me, and still chose his fiancee until she tried to kill him, and THEN wanted me back there’s no way anybody I know would be ok with that and it’s what EMMA feels, not how badly we feel for Neal and his “sacrifice” that apparently also included moving on with someone else even when Emma is standing right in front of him pouring her heart out about how painful it is to see him with her).
^^^^^^ Like i was saying before, the road to TL isn’t supposed to be smooth, but it isn’t supposed to be THAT rocky. Like, Charming had NO romantic feelings for Katherine. None. Because he was in love with Snow, and Snow was out there in the world. And yet, Neal had romantic feelings for Tamara, even though Emma was out there in the world, and we’re supposed to think it’s TL? Yeah.. no.
Buttercup could not love again even though she thought her TL was DEAD.
The fundamental rules of True Love that make up the concept are in no way exemplified by Swanfire, i’m sorry.
And i think that’s something all of us here are in agreement with.
That’s why if SF got together i would literally stop watching the show – because to me it would signify bad writing. The truth is in the numbers – CSers are a far bigger fandom than SFers. A bigger proportion of people are interpreting the show in the same way. Maybe it’s just because i’m a chemist, but i fully believe in statistics lol. But even more than statistics, the clues are all there in the narrative. That’s why i honestly can’t believe that SF are believed to be endgame by some.
I’d love it if Emma’s word on whatever was enough, but then there will always be doubts of some kind and every “proof” has a loophole so far so…until we know more, hopefully her choice will be enough to convince the characters and the fans and we can be rid of this stupid “triangle” perpetuated by the fans even though we’ve seen saying this from the beginning.
Unfortunately it won’t be. Even though CSers have been proved right at every turn with the development of CS, SFers still find a way to twist it to suit them.
Neal is giving out his plan of escape in miniscule sections.
Yes. Emma was frustrated with it in Dark Hollow – “are you going to tell me how that coconut works?” and now Killian is frustrated.
That said, all I keep seeing is “yay Neal for not taking Hook’s bait” from that conversation and I just want to scream. Neal insulted the ONE thing that has been consistent in Hook’s life. The ship is his HOME, is the one possession he has that really means anything to him, houses a lot of bad memories etc etc. It is EXTREMELY personal to him, and Neal just insulted it.
Lol that’s hilarious. So what, they’re saying that Neal is the “better man”? Even though he started the spat?
I’m increasingly amazed at how much people are trying to hate Killian, even though he has been NOTHING BUT a good man this season. His arc is to be a HERO. It’s nothing more than blind (and prejudicial actually) hatred because, deep down, they know he’s a serious threat to their ship. Like, CSers get mad at Neal, but only because he treats Emma badly “at times”.
But when people descend into “omg he loves Emma but she feels nothing for him” “omg he’s always wanting to be the center of attention” and “omg Emma is only hugging Hook because he’s Neal” – like all of those arguments make no sense.
Killian didn’t want to take ANY credit for saving David’s life.
Why would Emma hug Neal in Hook’s body? She has feelings for BOTH of them – that would be weird even in Fairytale terms.
JMo has SAID that Emma has feelings for Killian. SAID IT. But i get why SFers want to deny this – it’s because as soon as you take Emma having feelings for Killian into the equation, SF does not work.
Honestly MysteryKat, keep to the positive, bookmark this thread and keep to your tumblr, because i just laugh at all the arguments i hear these days!
Emma and Killian will have professed their love for each other by the end of the season, of that i’m 99.99% sure 😉
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
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