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Yep, if you watch the scene again he is very careful to say that when Emma didn’t show up he got worried about her and wanted to make sure she was okay – he knew she wasn’t sure about going in the first place so asking if she is okay makes perfect sense.
Then he talks to her about her concerns about Henry. At some point she says she isn’t ready yet but and then he talks to her about “moments” which could be directed toward both Neal or Hook since he never mentions either guy. It’s Emma who says “And you thinking having lunch with Neal would be a good moment.” He doesn’t say yes. He says something like “There’s only one way to find out” and then says he will drive her to Granny’s. Keep in mind that Neal asked her to meet him to TALK – Emma called it a date. Daddy Charming knows that Emma needs to talk to Neal whether she chooses him or not, so driving her to the diner isn’t pushing her toward Neal it’s making her deal with something she has to deal with even if she isn’t going to consider dating either of them. Then when Emma makes the comment about wondering if he isn’t pushing her toward Neal to keep her away from Hook – her never acknowledges that he is or isn’t pushing her toward Neal and cracks a joke to not show his opinion about Hook. So he was VERY careful to make sure he was only giving her general advice about letting her walls down and learning to enjoy moments in spite of the bad parts of life – not getting specific about either guy even when SHE tried to bring one of them up.
I don’t necessarily think he is CS but I think he knows that she really loves Hook. If he knows her well enough to be able to say twice in that episode that she and Snow are so much alike then he knows that she loves Hook. But he is being a good dad and letting her figure it out on her own because he knows she doesn’t like it when Snow gets pushy about Neal so he isn’t about to do the same thing with Hook. I think he wants Emma to choose who SHE wants to choose and who will make her happy. But I do think he thinks very highly of Hook after their time on NL. But since I don’t think he knows the back story on Emma and Neal yet I think he would be fine if Emma decided on SF. That’s why I liked Daddy Charming so much in this episode, he was just being a dad and being supportive of Emma – he wasn’t trying to tell her what to do or what he thought was right. He just gave her advice that he thought would help her be happy.
[adrotate group="5"]Question – do Snowing know about the whole ‘jail’ thing though? Sorry, I know it’s been answered before but for the life of me I don’t remember the answer…Emma doesn’t even really know the whole story right?
I do think Charming is CS but I think it says more about his newfound relationship with Hook, not so much as a comparison to CF… I think Charming was very impressed by Hook’s actions in NL, and probably a little embarassed by the fact that he was looking at Hook as merely a pirate, when one might say Charming is merely shepherd.
@MysteryKat I’m glad you brought up the deal with people saying that Hook was distracting Emma in NL when she should have been 100% focused on Henry, and now Daddy Charming and Snow are telling her that in life you have to find the good moments in spite of the bad.
As a parent myself, that whole argument during the NL episodes was driving me crazy. I guess I didn’t realize that when I became a parent I ceased to exist as a regular human being. The fact of the matter is that being a parent is a huge responsibility on a daily basis but when there is some kind of crisis in your child’s life it can literally consume you and if you allow that to happen it will destroy you. Those times of crisis are EXACTLY when you have to SEARCH to FIND the good times and you recognize that the people in your life who can manage to distract you from your crisis for even 5 minutes and make you feel good are an enormous blessing!!
Not long before the NL episodes I had a friend whose 6 year old son died of a life long chronic disease. They knew this last time he went in the hospital that he wasn’t going to come home ever again but that didn’t stop them from taking time to get away from the hospital to do something together as a couple to keep their sanity or to keep taking their daughter to her dance classes and spend time chatting with the parents in the waiting room. They needed that distraction and that time away from the crisis to rest, regroup, and replenish so they had the strength to go back and deal with losing their son. But in spite of being parents who had a son who was dying they were still a married couple and they were still parents to a daughter and they needed to find the moments for those parts of their lives in the midst of the bad.
That is exactly the kind of thing that the show is talking about. When things are bad sometimes you have to search to find the good. In Emma’s case, she found her moments on NL because she FELT good when she was with Hook. When she was feeling discouraged he reminded her that he believed in her and that she is always successful when she sets her mind to something. And she was reminded that she is was loved by many people on the island (including Hook because of his secret and because he told her he was going to win her heart). Those were all POSITIVES on the island.
I am so glad someone pointed out that they are making a big deal about it on the show now after people tore Hook to shreds for it!!!
Agreed. I think he’ll be more open to Hook possibly because he does see how much Hook genuinely loves Emma and what lengths he’s willing to go to for her (he never planned to get credit for saving Charming but he made sure that Charming knew he was right, that he did it for Emma, not for him and then Charming went on to elaborately thank him when he didn’t have to). In general, I think dads are MORE protective when they see someone that reminds them of themselves. They remember what they were like and don’t want their little girls anywhere near someone like that because they want to protect them (and he missed out on almost EVERYTHING with Emma!) He got to protect her once as a baby and he hasn’t been able to do a lot since.
He’s the more neutral of them though at least. He seems to just want her happy and let her figure that out for herself. He did go talk to her but I think that was more so that Snow wouldn’t since she is so pushy about it. This is something that Emma has to decide for herself. I would have been happier with him if he hadn’t made it obvious he was actually gonna take her there and just offering her a ride if she had changed her mind, but I think that since she is so much like both Snow & Charming that it makes sense. Even cursed Charming went to tell Snow that he couldn’t be with her!
I was surprised that Emma didn’t show up or call or something but then again, if she had it still would have paralleled CURSED!Snowing so perhaps that’s why they didn’t. If it really wasn’t about Neal at all, she would have made sure that he knew that instead of just leaving him there waiting. She KNOWS what it’s like to be left (and so does he). If she were worried about the stipulation that went with it, she would have found a way to show up even if she stormed in there worrying about Henry and pushing anything about them to the side for now. It would have been a HUGE parallel to real Snowing as well as specifically within the episode. Possibly even enough to make me panic since we spent the episode on what Snow wanted for her. But that’s not what we got. Like always, they make us think it’s Neal because Snow will say something, but like in the past, when we finally learn from Emma what’s going on, all is not what it appears. After all, when Snow was telling her not to worry about the kiss, she (and we) didn’t know how Emma REALLY felt about the idea he was alive.
So I’m way more interested in how Emma actually feels about things than what the other characters want us to believe. It makes sense for Snow, she doesn’t understand the situation Emma’s in. She’s with the father of her child. It makes sense for Henry or Rumple because they want Neal to be happy / Henry wants his parents together. Totally understandable. We haven’t seen him be able to say it again now that Tamara’s out of the picture, but it made what Hook was saying make total sense because Henry needs to know that Hook isn’t the problem. That it’s the issues that Emma already tried to stress when she first told him she wasn’t getting back together with Neal. If Henry can see that they’ve tried, or they’ve talked it out and BOTH say it’s not gonna happen, then Emma can move on to someone else. Henry’s big on the TL thing, he’ll understand. Especially since history won’t be repeating itself.
What’s so interesting though is it’s the characters who have no stake in anything and who haven’t been around for any of the BIG stuff (echo caves, private talks in the jungle etc) like Cora, Regina and Tink who have all basically said that Hook and Emma are together, they’re just not “together” yet. They SEE something and sometimes it gets in the way of their plans and sometimes it’s an annoyance but it’s there. They have no stake in it, but they see it, even without the knowledge of the caves or the kiss. Wasn’t there a thing about the early episodes of this season where feelings between a couple characters “wouldn’t be denied” and then we led up to the kiss? It’s not gonna be smooth-sailing. It never was. But they’ve built up enough to make it absolutely believable and over time even moreso. All the clues will have been there along the way and I can’t wait for A&E to be able to say “well if you go back and watch things like in ____ you’ll see ___” and say it was there from the start.
Also majorly looking forward to Emma being cutesy again and enjoying herself. She was more care-free as a teenager but her life was a lie then too. She has the Savior-meltdown because she can’t seem to get away from the bad stuff (like Snow) but she’s still finding the moments with Henry and Hook that are making it worth something, even if she’s afraid of admitting that. I LOVED her callback to what Charming said when it came to finding out if it was really Henry. It got her thinking about that, and I can’t help but wonder if it got her thinking about some other moments too!
I don’t think they’ll be quite as cutesy as Snowing but at the same time one of the things I love about Snowing is that they can’t stay away from each other and they steal a kiss or a look or hold hands whenever they can. I look forward to seeing Emma be that way too in her own way and she & Hook have issues staying away from each other for sure! (Look at how miserable they spent this entire episode. We had NOTHING between them other than her jumping to conclusions about Tink and looking upset). She had nobody believing in her about Henry, she COULD have gone to the diner to meet Neal and then tried to make it all about Henry but she didn’t even try because he hasn’t believed in her before. She DID try with Regina though who put her down but that’s to be expected. Why not push that with Neal? And then Hook was nowhere to be seen even though he was always around during NL (which makes it a big obvious glaring hole when the person you’ve spent 24/7 with is suddenly missing) and she’s used to him being there and supporting her and then poof, he disappeared. Plus this was when “the fun begins” or was supposed to, and he was MIA. The only person who believed in her completely wasn’t there, and she spent the episode sad and upset and not having anybody trust her and he spent it falling into a deep dark place because walking away, while perhaps the “right” thing to do because he was putting Henry first, was clearly the wrong thing for him personally and it took a toll on him. Just like David doing the “right” thing and going back to Kathryn made him miserable.
I swear David & MM got a TON of things wrong but their feelings for each shining through was all real Snowing and it HURT to watch them make mistake after mistake. They ended and fell apart because of the lack of BELIEF in each other, but their pull to each other was real, so much so that when David did the “right” thing in going back to Kathryn, what did MM do? Oh right, she slept with Whale. It was a MISERABLE time for cursed Snowing. It was awful. But it showed them that by trying to do the “right” thing, they weren’t happy and soon after that, they were drawn to each other again and that was about the last time that they were ever REAL Snowing but you get the idea.
They’ve been sooo quiet this week about everything other than JMO being super excited for the mid-season finale. I need info! I need context! I don’t know what to think right now and I’m afraid of another hiatus because it’s never good and is filled with so much hate for things that haven’t aired yet. I don’t think she’ll “make a choice” before the hiatus but at the same time it may look like it’s leaning one way or the other. I’m still completely cautiously optimistic though. I don’t think she’s quite ready yet and there hasn’t been time to officially shut things down/get closure – she just stood him up so far – but they have to talk and iron things out. On top of that she needs to talk to Hook about the whole Tink thing (and she will because she was jealous) and get some answers. The fact that she’ll want those answers shows it means something to her though. She’s already kinda gotten the answers from Neal and she’s now had a chance to tell him just how hurt she was. He hasn’t backed off yet, but her actions and words have been very telling. They will HAVE to talk, especially since she stood him up, but I’m not sure that she’ll have time to really truly make a decision unless it’s a heat of the moment, who do you run to when the world might be changing and you’ll lose everything thing but then, she’s said stuff like that before and then it didn’t quite mean the same thing afterwards.
So many things going on! I do feel like, based on the promo, Hook and Emma will be in a better place. Hook seems more like Killian again and less like that dreadful Hook mask he was wearing when he was falling apart. They seem intense and emotional but are standing super close and the way she’s looking at him… I have hope. They were both just so sad in this episode (and both said they were “fine” when they didn’t really mean it, but I hope that that’s the last we’ll see of the separation because they are so much better when they’re side-by-side or if they’re split off in different groups with the promise of meeting back up. Him just disappearing after being by her side for days and constantly relying on him, right when she needs someone to believe in her the most was just heartbreaking. They were “fine” but more like Freaked out, Insecure, Neurotic, and Emotional fine (I love the Italian Job, ok? It fit!)
Seriously strong parallel between Hook and MM with the going to get drunk and then hit on somebody who is sooo not right for you but doing it anyway. Similar to Graham too by going back to Regina after getting turned down by Emma even though he knew it wouldn’t help him at all.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
@Jenna B As far as I can tell Snowing does know about jail. I mean I think they know Henry was born in jail but not that Emma and Neal lived a life of crime together and that Neal’s actions resulted in Emma ending up in jail. I don’t think Emma knows the whole story – heck, we don’t know the whole story and I’m guessing Neal doesn’t know the whole story!
I agree that Daddy Charming is a bigger Hook fan than Neal fan simply because they spent time together on NL, he really doesn’t know Neal at all. Which is actually something that bothers me. Hook made an actual effort to try to bond with Charming while Neal hasn’t shown the least amount of interest in getting to know Charming at ALL. Typically when a guy is seriously interested in a girl he will try to get in good with her dad – it just shows poor character to me for Neal to not show any interest in getting to know Charming, but maybe I am old fashioned (then again Neal is hundreds of years old so he should be old fashioned too).
And I agree with you that Charming probably feels badly that he seriously misjudged Hook because he is a pirate. I don’t think that is necessarily an issue for him anymore. I think they could have some fun with the Hook/Charming bromance on the show since they are the same age. It would be awkward for Emma’s dad and her boyfriend to be the same age and hanging out together at a bar. But I think they have a lot of the same traits and since they are establishing that Snow and Emma are a lot alike they could have some fun with the two of them commiserating over how difficult the two of them be over beers.
@Jenna B As far as I can tell Snowing does know about jail. I mean I think they know Henry was born in jail but not that Emma and Neal lived a life of crime together and that Neal’s actions resulted in Emma ending up in jail. I don’t think Emma knows the whole story – heck, we don’t know the whole story and I’m guessing Neal doesn’t know the whole story! I agree that Daddy Charming is a bigger Hook fan than Neal fan simply because they spent time together on NL, he really doesn’t know Neal at all. Which is actually something that bothers me. Hook made an actual effort to try to bond with Charming while Neal hasn’t shown the least amount of interest in getting to know Charming at ALL. Typically when a guy is seriously interested in a girl he will try to get in good with her dad – it just shows poor character to me for Neal to not show any interest in getting to know Charming, but maybe I am old fashioned (then again Neal is hundreds of years old so he should be old fashioned too). And I agree with you that Charming probably feels badly that he seriously misjudged Hook because he is a pirate. I don’t think that is necessarily an issue for him anymore. I think they could have some fun with the Hook/Charming bromance on the show since they are the same age. It would be awkward for Emma’s dad and her boyfriend to be the same age and hanging out together at a bar. But I think they have a lot of the same traits and since they are establishing that Snow and Emma are a lot alike they could have some fun with the two of them commiserating over how difficult the two of them be over beers.
HAHA I want to see that scene — Emma walking in to a bar and seeing Dad and the boyfriend tossing back a few.. Jen Morrison would absolutely nail that facial expression!
Thanks for the clarification re: the jail business…that’s the one problem I have with OUAT sometimes…remembering who knows what and who’s in the dark!
Preview strikes again! Didn’t see the lovely responses! (How do we do those @____things to make them show the person? I keep not being able to)
Jenna_b – Snow should know more than Charming. He was in a coma I think when Sidney’s article about Henry being born in jail was written for the paper but MM should know about it. Emma usually only hinted at things but MM as well as Snow had major reasons to think that Henry’s dad wasn’t a good guy. Then suddenly they meet him and poof, everyone’s pushing the Neal thing. So I’m not sure *exactly* what they know. Snow got a phone call from Emma FREAKING OUT in NY at the idea of Henry knowing about his dad so you’d think that would have some weight but I think Snow sees it as “this will make us one big happy family and allow all the bad stuff to disappear” as far as Rumple and Regina are concerned. Because Neal is Rumple’s son, having them all be united = Rumple thinking of them as family and not being against them anymore (and they’ve already made the strides with Regina). Her comments after that phone call in Manhattan were all about how it might help everyone get along. I’m really curious about the jail stuff though! I feel like they must not know that or they wouldn’t be so quick to push her in that direction at least without getting some answers about it first.
I know, people say that Hook left her too and he did! It was awful! I hated it! But you know what – Neal left her in there for HIS crimes after promising that they could be together forever which was after trying to leave her before that! He basically promised her the world and then up and left with no explanation and never came back (or planned to), whereas with Hook, she dealt the first blow by betraying him. He didn’t promise her anything other than to work with them to leave SB and she stopped him from being able to do that. He didn’t owe her anything for doing that, it was in retaliation, he had Cora breathing down his neck, and he was a villain, she should have known better. But Neal DID make her promises and she NEVER betrayed him in any way shape or form, so him leaving him there was MUCH MORE SCARRING for her than the random guy she just met who SHE LEFT FIRST. She tried to justify it and convince him to take it back by saying he would done exactly the same thing because she needed to believe that. She needed to believe that he would have done it too because she knew she screwed up and it wasn’t the honorable thing to do when he hadn’t given her reason to betray him other than being similar at times to her ex who did that to her. So they’re entirely different circumstances. She’s left him a couple of times or knocked him out and tied him up, he’s left her behind etc etc. Funny how Charming JUST reminded us that Snowing did’t start off so well either and in very similar ways to a lot of Hook and Emma moments. (Snow Falls & Tallahassee – the beanstalk half *swoon*)
rumplegoldfan – glad I could help. I was SO happy when Charming pointed that out after how Hook was torn to shreds. No scratch that, EMMA was torn to shreds because how dare she be interested in the pirate AT ALL or ever smile while she was on a mission to save her son. Never mind that you can’t have the switch turned on 24/7 or you will absolutely burn out. It’s IMPOSSIBLE. It’s why a lot of times actors will tell you that the best sets they’ve ever been on are the ones for the most depressing thing you’ve ever seen because they HAVE to balance it out with something. It’s just TOO MUCH to be that depressed or scared or whatever it is ALL THE TIME. Likewise we saw that occasionally the group had to stop and rest a bit. Should they not talk about anything other than Henry? They’d work themselves into a frenzy and PANIC 24/7 if they did that. They had their moments of worrying and falling apart, but they also found moments when they could balance that out with something and that’s ok. THAT’S HUMAN.
So I was thrilled when Charming pointed out that yes, their lives are insanely busy and there’s always SOMETHING that gets in the way of any relationship, especially when it feels like the world is falling apart with a new threat every which way they turn. But you can’t live like that. You can’t enjoy life if you let that pressure build and sometimes, you just have to find the moments that matter. The flickers of light in the darkness that give you something to fight FOR and to keep going. Emma may have needed some reminding of that, that it was OK to feel something and OK to not just be freaked out/scared/worried 24/7 even when things ARE real and ARE scary or worrisome. She showed that by using what he said when she was confronted with Pan saying he was Henry. She thought back to those crazy things that happened early on and connected with him because of a MOMENT that they shared.
Nobody wants to focus on the bad 24/7. SHIPPERS have been focusing on and working ourselves into frenzies over every little thing, but not everything about the show relates to that. Emma was on a very real mission, but she still had moments to break down, or to connect with her parents (which I heard nobody complain about fyi), and yes, moments with a certain captain as well. He helped her get through all of that bad stuff, just like Charming helps Snow.
That’s one of the many reasons they’re so perfect for each other! Like Snowing they find the moments that work for them and make it meaningful and memorable amongst the chaos. It’s why we have these little moments of interaction outside of just the mission. We got the hand wrapping and the tripwire on the beanstalk, and coconuts, rum, a KISS, a “When I win your heart and I will win it” etc etc during an important mission that Hook was 100% in as well as Emma. MOMENTS are how life means something. Every time Emma has a big moment where she lets herself feel “good” something comes along to ruin that, usually before she even gets to process it. She was feeling good when she kissed Hook and then went back to the mission but it doesn’t negate that it happened or that she felt that way.
No wonder she feels like everytime she lets herself be happy for a moment! Every time she’s “feeling good” or the fun is supposed to begin, something else happens and now it looks like even if/when we get the boys switched back (I’m assuming this happens soon I hope!) then Pan wants to enact a curse which conveniently stops her from dealing with her feelings once again (possibly – and likely. I doubt we’ll have her answer for sure this week, though hopefully by the end of S3). Don’t get me wrong I’d love it now but I don’t think we’ll get it. (Low expectations = greater surprise. I’d rather have the surprise than the disappointment!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Something more from tumblr. Not sure how to bring the images over grr! It’s beautiful though so please check it out and if any of you can tell me what I’m doing wrong that would be wonderful! Nothing like sprucing the place up with graphics that say so much!
http://buttercupsandhooks.tumblr.com/post/69647038660/life-is-made-up-of-moments-good-ones-bad-ones
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Wow lots of great thoughts while I was asleep!!!! 🙂
@MysteryKat25 – you just put the @ sign next to the username. However I don’t think the names on the forum always match what’s on the login page – for instance here I’m CaptainEala and when I log in I’m captaineala. LolAnd you literally just copy and paste each gif into this box!!
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
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