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@captaineala – where are you that your day is almost over?
I’m in Ireland and it’s 7:30 pm right now – I’m an early to bed early to rise person so the day really is almost over for me lol
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
this thread really moves fast. we’re almost at 500 pages. so, I’m going to ask this question again. Do you guys want to keep this thread alive or start a new one? It has to be a general consensus. I don’t mind one way or another since I subscribe to the threads I’m most interested in.
I think we should keep this one. When new shippers enter the ranks they wanna find out everything they can – Aurora read the whole thread. It’s just easier to keep everything together I think, personally. And either way once we exceed 100 pages the thread is gunna go back to page 1.
So I say KEEP THIS THREAD 🙂
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
It’s so sad that there’s so much horrible fights in the OUAT fandom 🙁 at least we’re happy here! We shall stick to our little bubble.
Obisgirl I think we should keep this thread, I haven’t been here long, but it HAS been useful to be able to read it all at once. Anyone new to the ship might just go straight for a new thread and the old one will get lost and any information with it.
Don’t you think it is time to lock this thread and start a new one after all this is 500 pages? I think you should start a new one especially since we are about to start the 2nd half of Season 3 it would be like a fresh start in my opinion but I am not a Hook shipper but enjoy the comics and nice photos sometimes.
But it doesn’t make sense to me. All the info on our ship is here. Like Aurora said, the other thread will get lost. There’s important info on this thread – this thread convinced Aurora that CS is endgame over SF.
Honestly it seems pointless to start a new thread to me *shrugs*
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
😉 and also Ginny Goodwin shared this on her fb page!! Seems she doesn’t hate CS as much as we thought lol
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Are there any advantages to locking this thread?
As far as I’m aware, there aren’t any… unless I’m wrong? Anyone know of any advantages?
Pros:
- Up until the first hundred pages, we don’t go back to page 1 when we post
Cons:
- We don’t see all the contributors and how the thread as grown since Tallahassee
- We don’t have all our info in one place
- We don’t continue to see the page numbers going up (gotta admit I like that)
For me the cons FAR outweigh the pros lol
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
Hi @jenven!! That’s good, the general consensus so far is to keep the thread 🙂 I’m happy because I like seeing it grow so big!
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
If you’re tired don’t read this now, it’s quite complex lol.
From expelled-from-heaven, on the subject of fandom double standards and Captain Swan 🙂
Did you ever hypothetically question as to why fractions of OUAT fandom would rather revel in their purposefully distorted and misconstrued versions of the show’s protagonists and antagonists conveniently neglecting crucial aspects of their established characterization? And deeming any deviation from the trajectory THEY have outlined in their minds for those characters (falsely perceiving it as organic and natural potential progression/continuation of their arcs) as “bad writing”, “ooc” or “fanservice”? More specifically, how about we stop for a second and examine in which cases those arguments are being brought up to begin with. Particularly where Hook is concerned.
Because the thing is…
Out of all the major characters on the show Hook has been one of a very few to reflect ways in which real people are degraded by problematic and oppressive social constructs and corrupt ideologies.
His experiences, antagonism/villainy, slow but steady decline, emotional imbalance, numbness and profoundly shattered psychology didn’t come from a place of fairy tale going bad one day, evil witch striking, family being torn apart due to superior forces. Quite the contrary, every single occurrence of his life, not excluding those that prompted his (self)destructive methods of dealing with impossible situations, unsolvable tasks and insuperable issues was preventable and yet happened nonetheless.
There was nothing paradoxical, unimaginable or supernatural about an ambiguously exploitative authority taking advantage of Killian and his bother’s unwaveringly strict and blind loyalty and unconditional devotion to what said authority deviously (mis)led them to believe were it’s ideals. It might have been a mythical fictitious poison aka Dreamshade that took Liam’s life but it wasn’t what ultimately entailed his tragic untimely death and Killian’s subsequent position of defiance/rebellion.
Hook’s backstory is decidedly and devastatingly similar to that of vast amounts of people gruesomely wronged by and falling victims to malicious and regressive governments, bent and emotionally destroyed by the atrocity inflicted on them, their nearest and dearest and resorting to opposing said atrocity in ways that typically aren’t legal. Controversy and in certain cases admittedly harmful nature of their decisions dictated by extreme circumstances are nowhere in the neighborhood of justifiable or excusable and neither is Hook’s piracy. Context of the latter, however, is frightfully reminiscent of the disheartening downfall of people confronted with corruption on part of those in the position of power over them.
Left with less than minimal number of options and opportunities at their disposal. Among which are misguidance and drinking problems because that’s precisely what the lives of people subjected to “corruptness and immorality” tend to devolve into in the societies such as my own.
It’s embarrassing and awkward and too challenging for some to process, fathom and take a straightforward and sharp look at. Hence why segments of OUAT fandom would rather cultivate their deliberate misconception of Hook’s characterization perceiving him as avidly cunning, self entitled and evil schemes plotting shady backstabbing manipulator archetype. Obstinately asserting his arc in “Good Form”, prominent self awareness and willingness to refrain from vindictive agenda due to letting the novelty of his feelings for Emma liberate him from the confinement of imposed concepts, constructs and labels he previously had no way around conforming to (be it a rule abiding heroic lieutenant or defiant rebel or fearsome one handed pirate) are supposedly “inconsistent” with his former narrative.
Being a “critically thinking and responsible consumer” is significantly easier when the information exposed to you by media is safe and doesn’t require thinking outside the box. “Enjoying Hook’s character while admitting he is problematic” is exceptionally joyful when your definition of “problematic” is limited to cliche riddled formulaic storytelling tropes you’re trying to unreasonably attribute to him. In order to oversimplify completely legitimate issues showcased by means of his arc. Ones that demand you to leave your comfort zone to analyze them. Instead of insinuating the essential aspects and facets of character’s narrative featuring and addressing types of experiences that either don’t resonate with you (thus not being able to emphasize) or those you have a hard time acknowledging as relevant or valid are merely a contrivance incorporated into the plot by the writers on behalf of drawing a short term attention of the masses and boost the ratings.
Back to canon. Next time Hook takes it upon himself to defy outdated and problematic conventions by assisting a woman in escaping a toxic marriage and helping her attain contentment ending up falling in love with said woman in a process (now, Milah neglecting her parental duties towards Bae is a different issue pertaining to her conscious choices some of which are as deserving of objective scrutiny as those of Hook) he is confronted with her psychotic rejected ex who viciously murders her and maims Hook/renders him disabled permanently. The latter devotes his life to targeting a man who was a direct source of his physical and psychological trauma succumbing to further inner destruction and dishonorable, disgraceful and intolerable methods of pursuing his goal. Acts on his exceeding external appeal and sexuality to get himself out of trouble. Considers people of any gender equally irrelevant to his strict agenda not being above dismissing their well being or inflicting harm on them if necessary for subjecting Rumple to responsibility (i.e both of Belle related incidents), faces poignant and rightfully negative consequences of his damaging behavior. Reevaluates his priorities and tendencies due to being reminded he doesn’t have to uphold a certain image and can finally allow himself to regain individuality and strive for more than he used to think he could afford (“be a part of something”). Exercising his right to be naturally attracted to someone and explore those feelings said someone (Emma) willingly and actively responds to.
Inevitably though, this perfectly logical chain of events is deemed as a drastic rewriting/revamp and “rushed & unfitting” development of a character certain viewers would irrationally brand as a misogynist (presumably in order to blatantly disregard the fact that so far Hook has been the only character on the show to DIRECTLY confront the notions of misogyny by acknowledging and endorsing Milah’s agency as opposed to Rumple; and providing his other love interest with no less than absolute control over their relationship – as opposed to Neal – hence his “as you wish” in reference to Emma literally becoming their slogan).
A character who fits a tritely overused storytelling mold of a manipulatively insolent bastard with no ambition outside of bastardy and no self critiquing capabilities doesn’t frustrate delicate and perpetually offended audiences. Such characters are simple in their construction, easy to be lovingly hated and abhorrently adored and no one is going to condemn you for admiring their artificial complexity as long as you operate with a textbook “I love him and I KNOW he is problematic” sentiment. On the other hand, when there is a character who does commit problematic acts – and notice how none of Hook’s indisputably aggravating wrongdoings has been condoned by me to any degree – but whose arc is launched in motion by issues persistently invalidated and undermined in our society (for they are considerably uncomfortable to deal with and therefore ignored on a far more regular occasion than recognized) the legitimacy of their narrative and characterization is reluctantly accepted. And commonly regarded as “plain and bland” for the sake of avoiding having to constructively and mindfully examine those underlying layers of their story that come across as challenging causing you to conveniently glance away.
Keeper of Captain Swan's first kiss
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