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Do you know this is actually a good point. A lot of Rumbellers love RUMPLE over even over Belle and by extension Neal – naturally, because Rumple and Neal come as a package deal. So they want Neal to get his happy ending more than anything, even to the detriment of other characters (Emma and Killian most notably), and (IMO) put blinders on to the fact that Neal isn’t always a good man. I readily accept that Hook’s past behaviour hasn’t been stellar, but he’s changing NOW and that’s what matters. Neal has exhibited bad behaviour VERY recently – the use of a toddler to bait Pan’s shadow (which I’m still not over not by a long shot).
It’s easy to see how Rumple fans will easily choose to support Neal over Hook. Neal like you said is a package deal with Rumple, so who would they rather support? Rumple’s former rival or his only son?
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Stelio I agree with all of your last three posts!!! Lol
Thank you 🙂 I’m on like four cups of coffee right now so I’m kind of flying 😛
I just came up with a theory about that in the SwanFire thread. Not quite like you put it but basically favourite characters can affect the audience’s perception of whether or not they like or dislike a certain character based on how that character interacts with the audience member’s favourite character. Does that make sense?
For me I’m always show before ship, I love the show so I’m more pro something than anti anything. I don’t get upset at pro SF stuff I see I get mad when I see Hook being torn down to boost up SF. Some people on the other hand if they have a favorite character or ship then that’s all they hang on to. So if we get a CS heavy arc like 3A which was very nice to us CS fans fans of characters and ships that get the short end of the stick are gonna have a lot of animosity toward the ship that reaps the benefits at what they perceive is their ship’s expense. After that those fans can’t even hear anything to do with a character or ship without it causing a problem. From that comes digging for reasons to hate characters and ships, then comes rebuttal’s from defenders of that ship and it all just snowballs!
I don’t dislike Hook as such but there are other characters I prefer over him. I quite liked Hook in Tallahassee and in the first couple of episodes of season 3. I get what your saying about Hook vs RumBelle. I am a RumBeller first and foremost so of course the moment I disliked Hook the most was when he shot Belle over the line and caused her to lose her memories and the time Hook challenged pre-dark one Rumple to the duel was painful to watch.
This is what I wrote in the SwanFire thread:
Using the locking Emma and co in Rumple’s cell as an example:
One section of fandom sees it as: He locked up Emma and co to die BECAUSE SHE BETRAYED HIM FIRST AND THEY ESCAPED ANYWAY SO THEY DIDN’T DIE
whilst another section of fandom sees it as :HE LOCKED UP EMMA AND CO TO DIE because she betrayed him first and they escaped anyway so they didn’t die.
Another example is shooting Belle:
One section of fandom sees it as: He shot Belle and made her lose her memories BECAUSE IT WAS THE ONLY WAY TO GET BACK AT RUMPLE AT THAT TIME
whilst another section of fandom sees it as: HE SHOT BELLE AND MADE HER LOSE HER MEMORIES because it was the only way to get back at Rumple at that time.
Hook fans (and I guess to some extent Rumple and Regina fans too)judge their favourite character’s actions differently to non-fans. Non-fans look at the action and consequence/possible consequence whilst fans tend to look at the reason why that character did what they did. Favourite characters in any given scenario can also affect the audience’s perception of any given situation.
Belle is one of my favourite characters so I will always dislike Hook more based on what he did to her rather than what he did to Archie. (Did Archie give up Belle and therefore throw her in front of the proverbial bus? Hook already knew about Belle in FTL but the way the scene transitioned made it seem like Archie gave up Belle as Rumple’s weakness)
Perhaps the whole crux of the CaptainSwanFire ship war isn’t who’s the better man for Emma but rather, of the three, who are your two favourite characters?
What are your thoughts Stelio?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixDidn’t I hand pick those moments PoM? (although some see the hitting worse than the shooting) Belle and Rumple fans hate Hook or “prefer him less over characters” and express some pretty strong anti-Hook sentiments over those moments. I wonder though if those moments didn’t happen though how would you see Hook? Would he be any kind of a threat to Rumple otherwise? I’d venture to say it would make him completely unbelievable as a credible villain’s villain.
I think that’s a pretty good assessment, when fans have strong character and ship biases they’re gonna see what they’re emotions dictate first even if it’s a skewed picture. Hook did commit some pretty ruthless acts but I think some fans will include his reasons into how they see him and others only see the acts. Rumple has been pretty evil at times too, remember him threatening the entire Charming family including Henry with death should anything happen to Belle after she was shot? (Archie did give up Belle btw) Hook compare to Rumple is just far less powerful so to oppose him as a rival is more about hurting those around him, taking away his happiness, “hurting his heart” as Hook put it. As far as the crux to this whole thing I look at as we all see the story that’s told based on that we find out what we like about it and what we don’t, we listen to the opinions of others and after all that shuffling around we come to understand what we prefer.
Didn’t I hand pick those moments PoM? (although some see the hitting worse than the shooting) Belle and Rumple fans hate Hook or “prefer him less over characters” and express some pretty strong anti-Hook sentiments over those moments. I wonder though if those moments didn’t happen though how would you see Hook? Would he be any kind of a threat to Rumple otherwise? I’d venture to say it would make him completely unbelievable as a credible villain’s villain.
If those moments didn’t happen, I would probably like Hook more. I did like him in Tallahassee quite a bit but that was before we knew the stuff he did to Belle. I think Hook would’ve been better off actually if he hadn’t been introduced as Rumple’s nemesis. Hook was set up to fail because his plan to kill Rumple would never have been allowed to happen. So Hook spent quite a lot of time with his beloved floor and Flook was born (So it did have its upsides 🙂 )
I think Hook could’ve been a credible villain without the Rumple stuff because of the fact he is Captain Hook. Hook was promoted as this ultimate big bad and he really wasn’t. So already Hook’s villain credibility was damaged.
I think that’s a pretty good assessment, when fans have strong character and ship biases they’re gonna see what they’re emotions dictate first even if it’s a skewed picture.
Thanks 🙂
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI mean I liked the story of Hook being Rumple’s nemesis especially since the whole thing tied back into Peter Pan and Rumple’s relationship in some strange way. I think doing that though did set him up to fail with a whole bunch of fans who are big Rumbelle supporters. Hook may have been able to be a credible villain but he could never have been a credible Rumbellle Villain if not for those actions. The promoted him all wrong he was more of an anti-hero from the beginning and now look he’s been pretty much a full blown hero from the season 2 finale on.
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