The Captain Swan thread!

[kfchimera]

@Surayya wrote:

Slightly off topic, but like with Emma/Neil, it does concern CS….. Anyone else having reservations over hints that Hook/Ariel maybe being paired? I’m not keen simply because Ariel is supposed to be very, very young- like 16 young, which is to young to fall for a 30 something pirate (with 300 odd yrs of experiences) imo anyway (I’d rather her fall for a young Prince Eric than Hook) & if they made her obviously mid- late 20’s (like the rest of the Disney princesses on the show), she wouldn’t really be ‘Ariel’ anymore, but more a red haired rip off of Splash- if that makes sense?

As I think Demileto pointed out on another thread–youth is not really that central to Ariel’s character any more than it is for the other princesses. Snow is 15 in the original animated movie version, and they’ve doubled her age give or take few years. The important part about Ariel was she was fascinated with another culture, and fell in love, made a deal to be human instead of a mermaid. Yes, Splash has those themes in a way too but was set entirely in the modern world and was partially about what happens when the “real world” crashes in on a creature from the fantastical world. So the guy was an ordinary guy, not a pirate let alone the well-known classic character of Hook, nor were there all the other fairytale & classic characters who would be involved too.

If Ariel is made to be an interesting character in her own right, and involved in plots beyond just a romance arc for Hook, that would work for me.

[Phee]

@KFChimera wrote:

@Surayya wrote:

Slightly off topic, but like with Emma/Neil, it does concern CS….. Anyone else having reservations over hints that Hook/Ariel maybe being paired? I’m not keen simply because Ariel is supposed to be very, very young- like 16 young, which is to young to fall for a 30 something pirate (with 300 odd yrs of experiences) imo anyway (I’d rather her fall for a young Prince Eric than Hook) & if they made her obviously mid- late 20’s (like the rest of the Disney princesses on the show), she wouldn’t really be ‘Ariel’ anymore, but more a red haired rip off of Splash- if that makes sense?

As I think Demileto pointed out on another thread–youth is not really that central to Ariel’s character any more than it is for the other princesses. Snow is 15 in the original animated movie version, and they’ve doubled her age give or take few years. The important part about Ariel was she was fascinated with another culture, and fell in love, made a deal to be human instead of a mermaid.

Correct. Even if they age her up to about 20ish, they can still believably have Triton as a protective parent who is concerned by his daughter’s fascination with the world of humans. Making her a bit older also means they can give her a more fully developed romance storyline, instead of a more innocent one they’d have to give her if she was cast as 16. You can get away with marrying off a 16 year old animated character a bit easier than you can a real life one.

@Surayya wrote:

Also Eric is suppose to be Ariel’s TL, not Killian.
If they have to make Killian portray a 3rd character, it either should to be a villain- like they do with Rumple- yes I know beast isn’t a ‘true’ villain, but he started out portrayed as mean/bad etc & blossomed into the hero prince (& I’m not keen on Hook becoming another villain!) or keep it in the universe of the Peter Pan story..ie a lost boy, Pan or Indian, otherwise we start to loose major characters out of other stories & it all becomes very confusing trying to keep track of who is really who & who they relate to, along with when, where & how!

FWIW, Barrie wrote that, “Hook was not his true name. To reveal who he really was would even at this date set the country in a blaze.” And there’s a telling of Hook’s story that writes him as the illegitimate son of royalty:

According to the (non-canon) novel Capt. Hook: The Adventures of a Notorious Youth, Captain Hook was born the illegitimate son of a nobleman, “Lord B”, and an unnamed woman Hook has never met (however, throughout the story, there are multiple clues in the way characters act and react that the unnamed woman may in fact be the Queen). Denounced by Lord B, James Matthew is brought up by a Shakespearean actress he calls Aunt Emily. When he is fifteen he unwillingly attends Eton College as an Oppidan scholar.

Yes, I realise that that particular publication isn’t Neverland canon and isn’t something they’d have the rights to borrow from for Once, but that idea, combined with Barrie himself saying that there was a scandalous secret to Hooks true identity, has had me wondering for a while if when we get the story of Killian’s youth, it may be revealed that he was actually born of a noble bloodline. Ships aside, just speaking as a straight up Hook fan, I think a backstory like that for him would be really interesting.

As for Prince Eric, he really has no set in stone back story of his own, he just exists so that Ariel has someone to fall in love with. Having him be someone we haven’t yet met would make Ariel’s story disjointed from the major plot of the show, and as an Ariel fan, I’d like to see her get a better treatment than that. Making Killian a former prince, and then making him Ariel’s prince would connect Ariel’s story in quite nicely, and make her seem less random.

Finally, speaking as someone who is actually a Hookriel shipper, I think it’s over the top, obscenely, undeniably romantic if a man who has given his life to the sea ends up having a true love who was born from it. But this isn’t a Hookriel thread, sooooo *paddling away now*…

[surayya]

@KFChimera wrote:

As I think Demileto pointed out on another thread–youth is not really that central to Ariel’s character any more than it is for the other princesses. Snow is 15 in the original animated movie version, and they’ve doubled her age give or take few years. The important part about Ariel was she was fascinated with another culture, and fell in love, made a deal to be human instead of a mermaid. Yes, Splash has those themes in a way too but was set entirely in the modern world and was partially about what happens when the “real world” crashes in on a creature from the fantastical world. So the guy was an ordinary guy, not a pirate let alone the well-known classic character of Hook, nor were there all the other fairytale & classic characters who would be involved too.

If Ariel is made to be an interesting character in her own right, and involved in plots beyond just a romance arc for Hook, that would work for me.

Lol- didn’t know there was a whole thread about it already!
See for me, there has been a tonne of ‘mermaid’ movies/series, so ‘Ariel/ ‘The Little Mermaid’, would need to remain ‘truer’ to the story (like Cinder’s story), other wise it’s just some random mermaid, sadly called Ariel, who happens to have red hair 🙁 – I just think they have their work cut out for them there, because the ‘variations’ have been done to death in so many different ways already (like Cinderella)…. & Ariel is one of my Fav D/P, so I want her own story to be epic 😉

[surayya]

@Phee wrote:

FWIW, Barrie wrote that, “Hook was not his true name. To reveal who he really was would even at this date set the country in a blaze.” And there’s a telling of Hook’s story that writes him as the illegitimate son of royalty:

According to the (non-canon) novel Capt. Hook: The Adventures of a Notorious Youth, Captain Hook was born the illegitimate son of a nobleman, “Lord B”, and an unnamed woman Hook has never met (however, throughout the story, there are multiple clues in the way characters act and react that the unnamed woman may in fact be the Queen). Denounced by Lord B, James Matthew is brought up by a Shakespearean actress he calls Aunt Emily. When he is fifteen he unwillingly attends Eton College as an Oppidan scholar.

Yes, I realise that that particular publication isn’t Neverland canon and isn’t something they’d have the rights to borrow from for Once, but that idea, combined with Barrie himself saying that there was a scandalous secret to Hooks true identity, has had me wondering for a while if when we get the story of Killian’s youth, it may be revealed that he was actually born of a noble bloodline. Ships aside, just speaking as a straight up Hook fan, I think a backstory like that for him would be really interesting.

FWIW???? Not sure what this stands for 😕
Yes, him having say a noble heritage would be interesting- but he doesn’t need to be Eric- who was already say 20 in disney’s TLMM anyway (not say 330)+ he was almost nabbed up by Ursula etc- we surely loose all that & any off shoots if it’s Hook (Killian isn’t that naive- he’s been around long enough to at least know Ursula & her ways if he knows Regina)- I want THEIR (Ariel & Eric’s) story mixed into NL or FTL, not a touch of it, twisted so it can be mash up with NL.

@Phee wrote:

As for Prince Eric, he really has no set in stone back story of his own, he just exists so that Ariel has someone to fall in love with. Having him be someone we haven’t yet met would make Ariel’s story disjointed from the major plot of the show, and as an Ariel fan, I’d like to see her get a better treatment than that. Making Killian a former prince, and then making him Ariel’s prince would connect Ariel’s story in quite nicely, and make her seem less random.

See I totally disagree- Has Robin Hood, Cinders, Red etc made the show disjointed? They all have stories in their own right, but they are connected to our mains story- they don’t have to take over characters out of each others stories to keep it all smooth- very few aside from Rumple have ‘taken’ over other FTL characters outside of their own ‘stories’.

@Phee wrote:

Finally, speaking as someone who is actually a Hookriel shipper, I think it’s over the top, obscenely, undeniably romantic if a man who has given his life to the sea ends up having a true love who was born from it. But this isn’t a Hookriel thread, sooooo *paddling away now*…

I can see it’s something we wont agree on, as we have 2 very different perspectives on the subject 😉 & part of why I didn’t search out a thread (if there is one) or start a new one as I didn’t want to have to defend my view to full on Ariel/Hook shippers 😉
I don’t want Killian’s character hitched to Ariel’s- just because he’s a pirate with a ship & could be of noble birth (It’d be like having Regina/Evil Queen be Rapunzel)- it just makes me want CS to happen all the more 😉 😀

[jasminegirl84]

@Phee wrote:

@KFChimera wrote:

@Surayya wrote:

Slightly off topic, but like with Emma/Neil, it does concern CS….. Anyone else having reservations over hints that Hook/Ariel maybe being paired? I’m not keen simply because Ariel is supposed to be very, very young- like 16 young, which is to young to fall for a 30 something pirate (with 300 odd yrs of experiences) imo anyway (I’d rather her fall for a young Prince Eric than Hook) & if they made her obviously mid- late 20’s (like the rest of the Disney princesses on the show), she wouldn’t really be ‘Ariel’ anymore, but more a red haired rip off of Splash- if that makes sense?

As I think Demileto pointed out on another thread–youth is not really that central to Ariel’s character any more than it is for the other princesses. Snow is 15 in the original animated movie version, and they’ve doubled her age give or take few years. The important part about Ariel was she was fascinated with another culture, and fell in love, made a deal to be human instead of a mermaid.

Correct. Even if they age her up to about 20ish, they can still believably have Triton as a protective parent who is concerned by his daughter’s fascination with the world of humans. Making her a bit older also means they can give her a more fully developed romance storyline, instead of a more innocent one they’d have to give her if she was cast as 16. You can get away with marrying off a 16 year old animated character a bit easier than you can a real life one.

Yeah, I am sure the writers could manipulate the ages and the plotline a wee bit to make it kosher agewise. Even though I am not a Hookriel shipper, I still think Ariel would a wonderful past romantic encounter in Hook’s life: one of the women who wants adventure, and Hook can give it to her. I see the parallels with Milah’s wish for a bigger life.

@Phee wrote:

@Surayya wrote:

Also Eric is suppose to be Ariel’s TL, not Killian.
If they have to make Killian portray a 3rd character, it either should to be a villain- like they do with Rumple- yes I know beast isn’t a ‘true’ villain, but he started out portrayed as mean/bad etc & blossomed into the hero prince (& I’m not keen on Hook becoming another villain!) or keep it in the universe of the Peter Pan story..ie a lost boy, Pan or Indian, otherwise we start to loose major characters out of other stories & it all becomes very confusing trying to keep track of who is really who & who they relate to, along with when, where & how!

FWIW, Barrie wrote that, “Hook was not his true name. To reveal who he really was would even at this date set the country in a blaze.” And there’s a telling of Hook’s story that writes him as the illegitimate son of royalty:

According to the (non-canon) novel Capt. Hook: The Adventures of a Notorious Youth, Captain Hook was born the illegitimate son of a nobleman, “Lord B”, and an unnamed woman Hook has never met (however, throughout the story, there are multiple clues in the way characters act and react that the unnamed woman may in fact be the Queen). Denounced by Lord B, James Matthew is brought up by a Shakespearean actress he calls Aunt Emily. When he is fifteen he unwillingly attends Eton College as an Oppidan scholar.

Yes, I realise that that particular publication isn’t Neverland canon and isn’t something they’d have the rights to borrow from for Once, but that idea, combined with Barrie himself saying that there was a scandalous secret to Hooks true identity, has had me wondering for a while if when we get the story of Killian’s youth, it may be revealed that he was actually born of a noble bloodline. Ships aside, just speaking as a straight up Hook fan, I think a backstory like that for him would be really interesting.

That would certainly be a great backstory. It would definitely pull me in to see the overturning of his nobility into the gold-stealing pirate that he is now. What a wonderful twist. I would love to see the transition from nobility to thief and sailor.

@Phee wrote:

Finally, speaking as someone who is actually a Hookriel shipper, I think it’s over the top, obscenely, undeniably romantic if a man who has given his life to the sea ends up having a true love who was born from it.

Yes, it is undeniably romantic. I am not averse to the idea, but to me, I think Emma is meant to have Hook, and to throw noble blood into the mix of things in his backstory, only makes me squee at yet another parallel between Hook and Emma. If that all unfolds like this, I will die a happy CS shipper.

@Phee wrote:

But this isn’t a Hookriel thread, sooooo *paddling away now*…

😆 😆 😆 😆 Haha, that is too funny! Nah, we don’t bite…at least not too hard 😉 hehe.

No, I definitely see the possibilities. Oh, and since you are a Hookriel shipper, just wanted to share a YT video I like, in case if you haven’t come across it already. Think of it as an olive branch 😀
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq8cQ0eTwNs&list=PL9C057CC013041FC0&index=90

Keeper of: Hook's eyebrow action, Emma's eye-rolls, David's sarcasm, Snow's "She's kind of out of town" to Tiny, and Rumple's "Not telling."

[surayya]

@Jasminegirl84 wrote:

@Phee wrote:

But this isn’t a Hookriel thread, sooooo *paddling away now*…

😆 😆 😆 😆 Haha, that is too funny! Nah, we don’t bite…at least not too hard 😉 hehe.

The Hookriel’s are trying to escape using CaptianSwan’s dinghy 😆 😆 😆 (Sorry grew up with my Grandfathers yacht & spent heaps of time sailing NZ waters- ship humor is the after effect 😉 )

[jasminegirl84]

@Surayya wrote:

@Jasminegirl84 wrote:

@Phee wrote:

But this isn’t a Hookriel thread, sooooo *paddling away now*…

😆 😆 😆 😆 Haha, that is too funny! Nah, we don’t bite…at least not too hard 😉 hehe.

The Hookriel’s are trying to escape using CaptianSwan’s dinghy 😆 😆 😆 (Sorry grew up with my Grandfathers yacht & spent heaps of time sailing NZ waters- ship humor is the after effect 😉 )

What is a dinghy? Edumacate me, dear, for I grew up on the “waters” of suburbia in Chicago, and by waters, I mean concrete and asphalt 😆 So, the closest I’ve gotten to sailing is Lake Michigan by dipping my toes in there 😀

Keeper of: Hook's eyebrow action, Emma's eye-rolls, David's sarcasm, Snow's "She's kind of out of town" to Tiny, and Rumple's "Not telling."

[moraha]

@Jasminegirl84 wrote:

I also want:
1) Emma and David to have a real daughter-father moment.. I have been wanting one and haven’t quite seen them completely bonding like her and MM have.

2) Neal and Hook interaction. Whether it be over Emma, or just to see the history they have had in the past…clearly they do since Neal recognizes him and knows how to steer the Jolly Roger.

3) A Henry an Grandpa!Rumple hug. Preferably, with Henry calling him gramps in the process.

4) Mulan showing more emotion and depth…if possible with her character backstory.

5) Aurora reuniting with Philip.

6) Robin Hood backstory.

7)ooooh, and the best one: Daddy Charming yelling at Neal for abandoning Emma. I know JMo was wanting Charming to do something about it, even though it hasn’t happened yet.

Yes, it’s all of that for me +
– I want Hook to meet Henry – I think they’d be really getting along quite well. 😉
– Aaaand of course I really wanna see Hook (no – Killian!! 😉 ) and Emma talk, actually talk – about life, about love, about everything – and then I want Emma to realize what a great man Killian can be and that she actually really likes him (I think Hook already knows that he likes Emma a whole lot… ) 😀

I think they made us CS-Shippers wait loooooooong enough!

[kfchimera]

A dinghy is a small boat, like you might row to shore when you can’t dock a larger boat.

I’m not full on Hookriel. My first thought on it was “Say Whhhaaaaat?”. Then I started to see the potential of giving Hook a displaced royalty background (I thought Barie’s line was a reference to someone born out of wedlock to a royal father/mother to a commoner….). I imagine him growing up between two worlds, sort of parallel to Ariel but yes, also Emma. Another bonus, it could add depth to his relationship with Milah without requiring screen time with that character. They’d have this parallel of being looked down upon by a rigid society not for her/his own deeds but those of another (coward husband/unmarried father & mother).

The one thing I think is true of CS versus Hookriel is that Emma is central to the story, and it would be hard to add Ariel as another central character without displacing some other character. Not impossible, but I think a large part of the appeal for CS for people is that Emma is already not just a central character (like Belle) but a main lead.

I’m not die-hard anything though–all I want is a good story with a smattering of romantic sub-plots alongside the action, adventure and drama. The comments about how Hook is now thinking of moving on after seeing Rumpel finding love (though I say Lacey with Rumpel is not love….!) make me think Hook is going to try to do the same pretty soon. It almost means people can stop downplaying the depth of Hook’s feelings for Milah, since there is not a “one love only” rule apparently in the writers minds. There was a tweet on that point recently I think.

EDIT: As I fixed a typo I noticed something–how old do people think Hook is in terms of his effective mental age? Chronologically yes, he is 300 whatever. I think he’s the same mental age more or less as when he went to NL.

@Suraya wrote:

I’m not keen simply because Ariel is supposed to be very, very young- like 16 young, which is to young to fall for a 30 something pirate (with 300 odd yrs of experiences) imo anyway (I’d rather her fall for a young Prince Eric than Hook)

Emma is only 28 years old –compared to 300 years of experiences that’s not much different than 16, which of course, isn’t a necessary quality for Ariel. Mermaids, like any fantastic creature, can also have an agelessness to them, especially if there’s a mash up of Neverland with Ariel ‘s story. Since this is a CS thread though, people are obviously going to prefer to see Hook as 30 in terms of his mental age, and a better fit with Emma, than with an immortal creature type personality for Ariel.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[Phee]

@Surayya wrote:

FWIW???? Not sure what this stands for 😕

For what it’s worth. 🙂

@Phee wrote:

As for Prince Eric, he really has no set in stone back story of his own, he just exists so that Ariel has someone to fall in love with. Having him be someone we haven’t yet met would make Ariel’s story disjointed from the major plot of the show, and as an Ariel fan, I’d like to see her get a better treatment than that. Making Killian a former prince, and then making him Ariel’s prince would connect Ariel’s story in quite nicely, and make her seem less random.

See I totally disagree- Has Robin Hood, Cinders, Red etc made the show disjointed? They all have stories in their own right, but they are connected to our mains story- they don’t have to take over characters out of each others stories to keep it all smooth- very few aside from Rumple have ‘taken’ over other FTL characters outside of their own ‘stories’.

With Robin, Cinderella, Red, they all had a connection to something that was happening with the story of a lead character. Looking at how things stand right now overall on the show, and imagining what may be in store for the end of this season and for next season, we're getting Neverland, definitely in flashbacks, and quite probably in present day as well. Kitsis was quoted the other day as saying, “Neverland is known for fairies and mermaids, and that will pay off.” And there's gonna be a scene before this season ends of Hook telling young Bae about mermaids, so he must have had dealings with them of some description. ( http://24.media.tumblr.com/e62f979970135a6eb0851b1b79660c8f/tumblr_mm31bhWmUa1rhuf8xo1_1280.png )

If in fact Ariel will be a Neverland mermaid as Eddy's quote implies, and they want to tie her story to the main plot of the show instead of having it as a stand alone story, they need to have someone from the main cast playing a role in her story. Main cast who we know for sure were in Neverland in the past are Hook and Nealfire. The other major player in The Little Mermaid is Ursula, and there's been speculation on Rumple, Regina, even Cora having been Ursula, so there's every chance they could tie Ariel to one of those characters to make her relevant. But Hook is also a legit possibility, given that we know he was in Neverland for quite some time and apparently knows something about mermaids.

I can see it’s something we wont agree on, as we have 2 very different perspectives on the subject 😉 & part of why I didn’t search out a thread (if there is one) or start a new one as I didn’t want to have to defend my view to full on Ariel/Hook shippers 😉

Yep, we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Neither of us is gonna change the other’s mind. I’ve never crack shipped any couple before, but God help me, once I started thinking about the possibilites for Hookriel, it sucked me right in and I ended up reading fanfic. Once you reach that point, you’re sort of a lost cause. 😆

@Jasminegirl84 wrote:

Even though I am not a Hookriel shipper, I still think Ariel would a wonderful past romantic encounter in Hook’s life: one of the women who wants adventure, and Hook can give it to her. I see the parallels with Milah’s wish for a bigger life.

Sounds like you view Hookriel in a similar way I do CaptainSwan. I may think that SwanFire is endgame, but I actually think CaptainSwan will be hot for a while in the mean time, and I’m OK with that, (which is why I lurk in this thread). 😉

@Jasminegirl84 wrote:

Oh, and since you are a Hookriel shipper, just wanted to share a YT video I like, in case if you haven’t come across it already. Think of it as an olive branch 😀
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rq8cQ0eTwNs&list=PL9C057CC013041FC0&index=90

That’s a great vid, thanks for the link! It will be nice when there’s an actual Once Ariel, so all the fanart and vid makers have the right face to stick in there. 😉

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