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I don’t think that’s right either. Like I said before, if Hook was killed off I would really have to force myself to continue watching the show but I fell in love with OUaT before I started shipping any of the couples or had a favorite character so I WOULD make myself keep watching. I know that eventually I would get into it again and would find a new couple to probably ship.
I’m sure I will end up hurting any SF shippers who read this, I don’t mean to but I’m sure I will. We’ve talked a lot about how we often feel like we are watching a completely different show than the SF shippers because we don’t see any of the same things that they see when it comes to a romantic relationship between Emma and Neal, or Neal being much more than a plot device. I think this is especially hard right now. I honestly still feel that there was nothing in the show that was ever done to make anyone think that Neal and Emma were going to end up together and I still don’t feel that Neal’s character was ever developed at all. I think all things Neal really took place back when he was Bae or when it was shown what he did to make Emma so closed off and emotionally scarred. So to me having Neal die was emotional because it was acted well and it was Henry’s dad, Rumple’s son, Emma’s ex, etc. but it didn’t really CHANGE anything that was currently happening or that was going to happen. But because the SF shippers seemed to see all this stuff that we just never saw, his death is something that has such a MAJOR impact on the show and has COMPLETELY changed what they thought was already happening and what was going to happen that OUaT isn’t even the same show anymore. That is really sad to me but I still don’t think it’s right to boycott the show because, quite honestly, I still don’t see how anyone could believe that Neal was a major character on the show. I think the IDEA of Neal might have been a major character but Neal himself was not. And I think that the SF shippers might have been shipping the IDEA of Neal with Emma not the actual character that A and E had created with her. So much of what they talked about was the relationship that they had back when Emma was 17 – that relationship didn’t exist anymore. And there was talk of hope and family – but they were NEVER going to have a happy little family because of Henry’s messed up family tree/past adoption/sharing with Regina/what about when Regina gets married situation anyway. And hope for what exactly? That you can get back together with your ex-boyfriend?? Why does hope only mean going BACK to something and not TOWARD something? So I thing a lot of the shock is from seeing things that just were not there.
Now, I completely agree that the death was handled way to abruptly. No Neal at all, then he is back for an episode, then he dies in a really weird way saying he FINALLY understands what it means to sacrifice???
But I don’t like that people are trying to get together a boycott. And these are the same people who complain that A and E only do things to make the fandom happy and that they should tell their story and not listen to the fans. Yet when they don’t get what they want they are boycotting now??
[adrotate group="5"]And I think his DEATH made her stronger. She said in the Echo Cave in a WAY that she was hoping he was dead but when she told Henry his father was dead and that she was going to find the person who did it there was a strength to her as the Savior that hasn’t been there for awhile. His death has given her a PURPOSE as the Savior again. I think these are all good things for CS. I think that Hook and Emma will both be mourning and bonding over Neal’s death AGAIN but in a different way this time since they BOTH had a chance to reconcile their relationships with him before he died and he isn’t part of Emma’s wall anymore.
Agreed.
LOL Surayya. Those Hook pics are hilarious. I really really really liked Hook this episode. He apologised to Belle- Yay!
He made up with Neal and admitted they’d been silly fighting over a woman- Yay! I don’t have a bad word to say against Hook this episode. What I hope for now is that the writers won’t immediately rush into CaptainSwan. Both Emma and Hook need time to mourn and grieve over Neal (I’m not entirely convinced he’s completely dead dead until we get some official confirmation). If they jump the gun too early with CS, then it makes it look like Hook is being a bit of a douche and making his move whilst Emma is down and emotionally vulnerable. After all the character development Hook has had this half of the season, I don’t want it to be ruined by the writers trying to push CS too early.I’m with you there- I do not want to see them rush into CS at all & this is coming from a CS shipper whom has been waiting for it to offically happen since 2×06 lol
Good morning everyone. Hope everyone survived the aftermath that was last nights episode. I watched the 7pm airing and really liked the episode. Tried to avoid the chat after that though. We knew the death was coming and I’m glad Neal got the chance to die a hero, but I thought the whole thing was too rushed. I can certainly understand why SF shippers are upset, I would be too. The writers had three previous episodes to build up to this. There;s going to be some bad blood for a while. Give everyone a chance to mourn. Enjoyed the CaptainFire scene even though it felt like they were just tying up loose ends. Hook with Belle was hilarious. Belle has such a big heart and can forgive anything, but I’m happy that she called him out on what he did to her. Poor boy doesn’t know how to apologize with any grace. Emma and Neal chatting in the woods was fantastic. Emma baby had a genuine smile going on! They left off in a good place emotionally. Regina and Robin were just so hot together. Really looking forward to more of that. That Wicked Witch need to die a miserable death after this. Bring it, greenie!
Love this post & I feel the same about Regina & Robin- cant wait to see more!
From reading one of the A and E interviews from today I get the feeling the way they are going to handle the CS relationship is to let it just continue to happen naturally the way it has been so far during 3B where people have been tagging gifs with things like #already married. In other words, they aren’t even going to really verbally address it – it’s just to be that they are going to realize that they are in a relationship without even knowing it – because they really already are. They are already a team, they read each other like an open book, they can talk to each other with their eyes, etc. Now I think they are going to really bond over Neals death and their concern over Henry, and I think Hook is going to step into a father figure role to Henry more for Neal than for Emma. So I don’t think the romantic element is going to be rushed at all. I think something will still happen that will require a TLK and that will be the moment either Emma acknowledges she loves Hook, or Hook finds out that the kiss he tried only didn’t work because Emma didn’t have her memories.
Ok I’ll just say it what does this death to as far as our ship is concerned?
I don’t think it really changes much *in the show* because Neal was never a barrier to CS just as Hook was never a barrier to SF. At most it will slow it down due to grief/mourning and respect for Neal. Personally though I wish Emma would have chosen Hook before a Neal death because that sets up a lot of problems within the fandom. Obviously not all SF fans are like this but there was definitely a lot of “fan service”, “Once Upon a Hook”, etc. comments last night, particularly on Twitter. Hopefully once things settle it will get better. It makes me sad that there is so much hate in the fandom. I don’t mean to rub salt in the wound to any SF shipper that happens to look into this thread but…..what I found curious is that a lot of people have said that they established Neal and Emma as TL’s this episode and I just don’t see it. I know Belle said something about that but that doesn’t make it so. Neal even admitted that they never found Tallahassee. Perhaps it would have been selfish to leave Neal/Rumple as they were to keep Neal alive but I don’t see Snowing making the choice that Emma did, which knowingly resulted in Neal’s death. Why wasn’t TLK even tried? I know he told Rumple he loved him but did he tell Emma he loved her? The death and how it happened just makes me more nervous about the potential wedding
There was some of that talk in chat as well (on a number of occasions, which prevented me from going in there after offering all the hurting fans condolences) 🙁 I wish people weren’t so keen to take their anger out on another character. Sorry to any SF’s who read this, but if it had been Hook to die, I wouldnt be blaming Neal for his death or talking about boycotting the show (I dont think anyone here said they were going to do this, but I do know it has been said elsewhere)- it’s like the crap storm that was SQ last season, all over again on twitter (after hearing about all the hate, I sent Adam a thanks for another great ep. Its sad Neal died, but trust them as it’s their story to tell, tweet).
Haven’t watched the episode yet but I have been saving gifs and I monitored tumblr last night during the east coast airing because I was editing my True Love meta. From what I’ve seen on tumblr though, it looks like Neal finally gave Emma the closure that she needed, and his blessing that he wants her to move on and find happiness again. This is what Emma wanted in Ariel, to move on because like Regina, it’s too painful to continue clinging to the past. And Emma said herself that she wished Neal was really dead because it would be easier for her than the face all the pain all over again. I do feel like now since Neal gave her the OK to move on and be happy again, she will be more receptive of Hook’s feelings and will allow herself to love him. Even more remarkable is that Neal finally accepted that moving on is what Emma wanted. And I think Hook will respect Emma’s grieving period and be there for her, console her when she needs it but definitely not push her into a relationship. He is extremely patient when it comes to Emma and will give her space.
Agreed & it’s what I want to see myself 😉
On the side not, when Neal asked to be alone with Emma in the hospital, did you guys notice Emma looking at Hook like ” it’s ok babe, we’ll just talk”. And when Hook was walking away Emma had to look back at him XD… so married
LOL I noticed it as well- I thought it very fitting since they arguing like an old married couple last ep 😉
oh I forgot to say with all the SF = TL & Belle confirmed it talk- Belle doesnt know everything! She said Hook/Killians heart was rotten to the core- WRONG!!!!!! & just how wrong her assessment is has been in show! Hook/Killian’s problem is his ability to love & feel deeply- far deeper then Rumple ever has shown he is capable of to date. If Killian is rotten to the core, then so is Emma, Regina, Charming & anyone who wants/seeks vengeance against the one who not only murdered someone they truly loved, but also maimed them in the process. Belle might be book smart, but she doesnt have all the answers in love & life, nor are the correct answers for her, the correct answers for anyone else (it’s never been, nor ever will be a ‘whats right for one, is right for everyone’ kind of show).
Cant wait to read this (after I’ve finished catching up here)- thanks for sharing @Jennifer!
so I dont talk OUAT with anyone – because my family is not interested and would think me nuts, I do my fanfiction and forums alone, I watch OUAT alone, low, i squee silently and my husband is one of those super unobservant people who could probably use a seeing eye dog when looking for the butter or other staple in the pantry… to my amazement my obsession but be bigger than i thought as my husband walks into the kitchen last night just as i finished drying my eyes and getting ready for a re-watch and asks me … ” how’s Hook?” so after I shook off my deer in head lights look – but couldnt wipe off my big huge grin. I filled him in on the episode and my feelings on a CS wedding. Needless to say he will NOT inquire again and I will only have you my fellow CSers to talk to. lol
That was very sweet of him & a very hard case situation your other half put himself in lol.
yeah… just really wished that Neal’s death came after CS have a few more moments. Especially after Belle declaring that SF was true love and Neal not contradicting it. so know its going to be that Hook is taking advantage of her… even though Emma has controlled their relationship from the start… he may flirt but he makes no moves and allows her to make the decisions. Oh… and I dont want this to seem anti Neal – but I didnt like how he thanked Hook and asked how he liked being a ‘hero.” as if Hook was doing him a favor and wouldnt have done it anyway if he had the chance on his own. and what??? he wasnt a hero when he offered his services as transportation and guide on Neverland to save your son???? Huh? soooo annoyed at that. but I liked hooks response about neal being a villian. Hook stated a fact but seemed understanding of how that could happen
I totally agree with this all well- I also wanted an out right Emma chooses Killian number before Neal passed (we might already know she decided on Hook/Killian ages ago (that was what her “good” was after all)- but it would have been easier for everyone if Emma simply admitted even to Henry/Charming/Snow that she ‘liked or had feelings’ for Killian, or even had Regina say point blank everyone see’s you feel something in return for him etc.
I too was a little annoyed with the selective memory on the show- Hook was a hero for much of NL, was it not the actions of a hero to allow the person who maimed you & murdered your love in front of you “safe passage” & transport in order to save another persons child, to knowing choose to go back to a place they never intended to return to ever, turn down Pan’s offer of an easy way off of the island by killing Charming, to then insist on giving Charming the choice to be ‘saved’ or not- knowing if he went back without Charming, he’d get the ‘blame’ for his death, to turn down the temptation of having Emma to himself, at Neal’s expense- Hook is the reason Neal is alive to do anything after all, if Hook had stayed silent about him being alive, he’d have died in echo cave or still be stuck in NL when everyone else left it :/
I feel really bad for how hard the SF folks are taking this. I know I would have been DEVASTATED if Hook had been the one to die. I know these are all fictional characters but we all get so emotionally attached to them – it feels very real to them right now. I wish there was something I could do to make them feel better but I guess just staying out of their way so they can grieve together is the best thing to do. I really hope they don’t stop watching the show. I know a lot of them are also Rumbelle fans so I hope they will be able to find fun in that ship again, or maybe OQ will give them a new ship to enjoy. I know it is really hard for them to even consider finding any joy in the show anymore. I have to admit – if Hook died I would have to force myself to continue to watch the show because my heart wouldn’t be into it anymore. Anyway, didn’t want to be a total downer but I just feel really bad for the Neal fans right now – kind of helpless, you know?
Agreed, I think all we can do is give them space & time to come to terms with it all.
I get what you mean about Hook dying & not having the heart for it anymore, I’d feel the same, but taking out your anger over Neal’s death on Hook isnt cool. I just hope it dies down shortly & we can get back to not walking on egg shells again.
Jennifer – that article was HILARIOUS. Thank you! I hear you, @Rumplegoldfan. I don’t think people will boycott, @Jennifer. Well…they might. And honestly, if you lose favor with the show, don’t watch, that’s your prerogative, but in the end this is an ensemble show. I like certain characters, love others…except for Pan and the WW, don’t really hate any (and really, I love to hate the WW!) – but I watch the show for the show, not just for Hook and/or CS. If they had killed off my favorite, yes, I’d be mad and sad. But I’d still watch. Because I’m here for the story. I think when you have shows with a large ensemble, you almost have to keep yourself from falling too in love with one character – because anything can happen. It’s not like when it’s the Joe Schmo Show – without Joe Schmo, there is no show…(ok, that’s a lot of rhyming, sorry for that!) I do feel for those that are hurting though. I do hope they come back when they’re ready. I am certainly not trying to belittle anyone’s pain or sadness. I liked Neal, and I am feeling a little spoiled because my favorite was spared. So I am conflicted. I’ve been angry from the beginning that Neal’s storyline felt the least fleshed out and most contrived. Why did he HAVE to leave Emma and let her go to jail? Never got a good answer for that one. What was Neal doing during the 11 years he was separated from Emma/Henry? Dunno, they never really let us know. How are we supposed to understand that he loved Tamara and intended to marry her but loved Emma and wasn’t going to stop fighting? Ok, that’s just sloppy writing. And I am miserable about not getting some quality CaptainFire!! MRJ acted the heck out of what he was given though. People are going to hate what they hate and see what they see. But I liked how they handled Neal in relation to CS in this episode. He seemed…to understand CS, and that it is going to happen. Maybe he knew he was going to die – and I’m not entirely sure he knew…? Maybe because he loves Emma and wants what’s best – and realizes there’s too much that’s happened with him and Emma to really ever go back? I don’t know. But I did get the sense that CS will happen, Neal would be supportive of it, and we will see CS respect and honor the fact that Neal was important to both Emma & Hook. I’m looking forward to Hook & Henry bonding next week…but at the same time, not looking forward to it. You know there’s going to be backlash. But like this episode, I guess you just have to watch out for the hate and dismiss it… I will say, I am quite happy this forum didn’t seem to fall apart at it’s seams after yesterday’s episode. There was a lot of emotion, and it was tense at times, but I didn’t see any real disrespect or accusations when I was on. That made me happy.
Jennifer – that article was HILARIOUS. Thank you! I hear you, @Rumplegoldfan. I don’t think people will boycott, @Jennifer. Well…they might. And honestly, if you lose favor with the show, don’t watch, that’s your prerogative, but in the end this is an ensemble show. I like certain characters, love others…except for Pan and the WW, don’t really hate any (and really, I love to hate the WW!) – but I watch the show for the show, not just for Hook and/or CS. If they had killed off my favorite, yes, I’d be mad and sad. But I’d still watch. Because I’m here for the story. I think when you have shows with a large ensemble, you almost have to keep yourself from falling too in love with one character – because anything can happen. It’s not like when it’s the Joe Schmo Show – without Joe Schmo, there is no show…(ok, that’s a lot of rhyming, sorry for that!) I do feel for those that are hurting though. I do hope they come back when they’re ready. I am certainly not trying to belittle anyone’s pain or sadness. I liked Neal, and I am feeling a little spoiled because my favorite was spared. So I am conflicted. I’ve been angry from the beginning that Neal’s storyline felt the least fleshed out and most contrived. Why did he HAVE to leave Emma and let her go to jail? Never got a good answer for that one. What was Neal doing during the 11 years he was separated from Emma/Henry? Dunno, they never really let us know. How are we supposed to understand that he loved Tamara and intended to marry her but loved Emma and wasn’t going to stop fighting? Ok, that’s just sloppy writing. And I am miserable about not getting some quality CaptainFire!! MRJ acted the heck out of what he was given though. People are going to hate what they hate and see what they see. But I liked how they handled Neal in relation to CS in this episode. He seemed…to understand CS, and that it is going to happen. Maybe he knew he was going to die – and I’m not entirely sure he knew…? Maybe because he loves Emma and wants what’s best – and realizes there’s too much that’s happened with him and Emma to really ever go back? I don’t know. But I did get the sense that CS will happen, Neal would be supportive of it, and we will see CS respect and honor the fact that Neal was important to both Emma & Hook.
THIS!!! Great post 🙂
I don’t think that’s right either. Like I said before, if Hook was killed off I would really have to force myself to continue watching the show but I fell in love with OUaT before I started shipping any of the couples or had a favorite character so I WOULD make myself keep watching. I know that eventually I would get into it again and would find a new couple to probably ship.
I’m exactly the same.
I’m sure I will end up hurting any SF shippers who read this, I don’t mean to but I’m sure I will. We’ve talked a lot about how we often feel like we are watching a completely different show than the SF shippers because we don’t see any of the same things that they see when it comes to a romantic relationship between Emma and Neal, or Neal being much more than a plot device. I think this is especially hard right now. I honestly still feel that there was nothing in the show that was ever done to make anyone think that Neal and Emma were going to end up together and I still don’t feel that Neal’s character was ever developed at all. I think all things Neal really took place back when he was Bae or when it was shown what he did to make Emma so closed off and emotionally scarred. So to me having Neal die was emotional because it was acted well and it was Henry’s dad, Rumple’s son, Emma’s ex, etc. but it didn’t really CHANGE anything that was currently happening or that was going to happen. But because the SF shippers seemed to see all this stuff that we just never saw, his death is something that has such a MAJOR impact on the show and has COMPLETELY changed what they thought was already happening and what was going to happen that OUaT isn’t even the same show anymore. That is really sad to me but I still don’t think it’s right to boycott the show because, quite honestly, I still don’t see how anyone could believe that Neal was a major character on the show. I think the IDEA of Neal might have been a major character but Neal himself was not. And I think that the SF shippers might have been shipping the IDEA of Neal with Emma not the actual character that A and E had created with her. So much of what they talked about was the relationship that they had back when Emma was 17 – that relationship didn’t exist anymore. And there was talk of hope and family – but they were NEVER going to have a happy little family because of Henry’s messed up family tree/past adoption/sharing with Regina/what about when Regina gets married situation anyway. And hope for what exactly? That you can get back together with your ex-boyfriend?? Why does hope only mean going BACK to something and not TOWARD something? So I thing a lot of the shock is from seeing things that just were not there. Now, I completely agree that the death was handled way to abruptly. No Neal at all, then he is back for an episode, then he dies in a really weird way saying he FINALLY understands what it means to sacrifice??? But I don’t like that people are trying to get together a boycott. And these are the same people who complain that A and E only do things to make the fandom happy and that they should tell their story and not listen to the fans. Yet when they don’t get what they want they are boycotting now??
I want to marry this post lol 😉 All this exactly!
I’m sure I will end up hurting any SF shippers who read this, I don’t mean to but I’m sure I will. We’ve talked a lot about how we often feel like we are watching a completely different show than the SF shippers because we don’t see any of the same things that they see when it comes to a romantic relationship between Emma and Neal, or Neal being much more than a plot device. I think this is especially hard right now. I honestly still feel that there was nothing in the show that was ever done to make anyone think that Neal and Emma were going to end up together and I still don’t feel that Neal’s character was ever developed at all. I think all things Neal really took place back when he was Bae or when it was shown what he did to make Emma so closed off and emotionally scarred. So to me having Neal die was emotional because it was acted well and it was Henry’s dad, Rumple’s son, Emma’s ex, etc. but it didn’t really CHANGE anything that was currently happening or that was going to happen. But because the SF shippers seemed to see all this stuff that we just never saw, his death is something that has such a MAJOR impact on the show and has COMPLETELY changed what they thought was already happening and what was going to happen that OUaT isn’t even the same show anymore. That is really sad to me but I still don’t think it’s right to boycott the show because, quite honestly, I still don’t see how anyone could believe that Neal was a major character on the show. I think the IDEA of Neal might have been a major character but Neal himself was not. And I think that the SF shippers might have been shipping the IDEA of Neal with Emma not the actual character that A and E had created with her. So much of what they talked about was the relationship that they had back when Emma was 17 – that relationship didn’t exist anymore. And there was talk of hope and family – but they were NEVER going to have a happy little family because of Henry’s messed up family tree/past adoption/sharing with Regina/what about when Regina gets married situation anyway. And hope for what exactly? That you can get back together with your ex-boyfriend?? Why does hope only mean going BACK to something and not TOWARD something? So I thing a lot of the shock is from seeing things that just were not there. Now, I completely agree that the death was handled way to abruptly. No Neal at all, then he is back for an episode, then he dies in a really weird way saying he FINALLY understands what it means to sacrifice??? But I don’t like that people are trying to get together a boycott. And these are the same people who complain that A and E only do things to make the fandom happy and that they should tell their story and not listen to the fans. Yet when they don’t get what they want they are boycotting now??
Thats good to hear- I havent caught up on any interviews yet, but I really like that Emma & Killian just sort of end up in a ‘silent’ relationship before either of them really realizes it or states it is official, kind of thing- As you say, since 3B they pretty much have been a couple- it just hasnt been openly confirmed (Regina’s NL “Boyfriend” remark not withstanding) & they arent sleeping together…. yet 😉
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