The Captain Swan thread!

[obisgirl]

Before Neal’s death, I’d reached the conclusion that SwanFire couldn’t realistically get back together romantically because there was too much water under the bridge for them. You don’t just forget the hurt and pain someone caused you to the level that Neal hurt Emma.

That’s generally what we’ve been saying all along.

It’s a shame that they didn’t keep Neal alive to show that he and Emma could be good parents to Henry even though they’re not together.

I agree. It would have been to see them at least as co-parents. But as Regina pointed, one day, Henry’s going to have more family than he can handle.

[Killian Jones]

From the previous Once Podcast episode, for Quiet Minds:

Daniel J. Lewis: As far as making predictions, between the SwanFire and Captain Swan ‘shippers, the Captain Swan ‘shippers have been more correct in their predictions and theories of what would happen, things such as…she cites multiple examples..but certain things like they’d been theorizing that there would be a kiss between Emma and Hook, and there was a little spoiler that Emma [Jennifer Morrison] said something, ‘When you get to kiss someone on-screen, it’s always fun.” Everyone assumed that meant Hook [and it was]. Jeremy: I love that a kiss is an event with spoilers and articles…and what not. Daniel J. Lewis: But there have been several things where, yeah, it does maybe look like Captain Swan ‘shippers are more correct in their theories and certainly deserve recognition for interpreting the show correctly in certain directions. But I know that’s not without error.

I was in the show chat when this happened & it was so uncomfortable lol. Yeah when it comes to stuff with our ship we’ve been good about predicting it’s direction. The show has been very good to our ship. It’s just that how it read was that CS shippers are smart and SFers cant’t see past the end of their nose. What’s worse is when it was said right in the middle of the episode dealing with Neal’s death. So it also came off like we were celebrating that he’s no longer a threat to our ship. Just bad taste, I felt so bad that I apologized to the whole chat. I predicted Neal’s death I know there were others that did too but it just didn’t seem to gloat about it when many SFers were in mourning and that’s how it looked like a giant “I told you so.”

[Jenna_B]

I haven’t really listened to the podcasts, but from what I gather, those comments are surprising? That though they didn’t really talk too much about the ‘ships, if/when they did, they seemed to lean a little more toward SF than CS?

I don’t know. It’s an ego boost to say “yeah! we were right!” but I’m sure when Jen said “it’s always fun to kiss someone” I mean, really, it was a 50/50 shot it was going to be Hook. That much was obvious to everyone, I’d think. I think when it comes to Emma’s ‘ship stuff, really, you’ve got a 50/50 shot. So if CS is actually where they decide to go, then yeah, we’re going to be right. If they decide to bring in another love interest, our chances of calling shots correctly could go down dramatically. (Not to, you know, poop on our parade, but especially when others are upset, it’s probably a good idea to remember the situation objectively…) That doesn’t make me upset that we have been right though…!

I think if Neal wasn’t your favorite or one of your top favs, it was hard to see the death coming? Honestly I don’t know. PoM, I agree, I kind of thought the writing was on the wall. I think that’s why I was so upset they crammed Neal and his character progression into one episode. It would’ve been awesome to see Emma & Neal co-parenting and establishing that ‘we were good once” earlier than 2 minutes before he dies.  I really would’ve liked to see CaptainFire come together earlier than the same episode as well.  Frankly, showing that during 3A would’ve been a much more satisfying way to handle the ‘triangle’.  And you can still have that and show the ‘triangle’ suspense.  Instead of going in the opposite, super awkward direction.  And it’d probably have better set up Neal’s quest to get back to his family.  But I digress.  (Seriously, A&E – you too take care of the fights and explosions and whatnot and let Jane handle the touchy feely stuff.  Like ALL the time.)

Ok so I managed to apparently just lose an entire paragraph.  It just went poof!  So if I post and there’s something spoilery that’s not blocked, I apologize now, dear mods!!  Cause it poofed just as I thought “Oh, shoot need the tags!”  Geez.

[surayya]

@surayya, you don’t know how badly I fangirled when I heard that. I like collecting various CS related reviews this season and as much as ‘ships aren’t really discussed on the podcast since it focuses on the show in general, it’s exciting to hear that stuff when it comes up. And to hear actual civil conversation too.

Oh I’m right there with you!

I had actually stopped listening to the podcast for the most part- as was sick of all the SF stuff being discussed, but Hook & his story lines being glossed over or not mentioned at all. So when they give us a shout out now, it kind of gives you a mega buzz 😀

[surayya]

Just looking at the CS pictures (very nice surayya) and the one that caught my eye was the one of Emma talking about Walsh saying “As usual, he wasn’t who he said he was and I got my heart broken”. What immediately stood out to me was the “as usual”. It suggests that Emma is now used to guys fooling her into thinking they’re something they’re not eg Walsh let Emma think he was a great guy when in reality he’s a flying monkey. As far as we’re aware, Emma has had 2 meaningful relationships so far: Neal and Walsh. (I’m not counting Graham because he and Emma weren’t really together before he died). For something to occur “as usual”, it would mean it has to happen more than once. Therefore when Emma is talking about Walsh not being who he said he was, Emma is also talking about Neal. I believe Neal’s death was planned from the start of season 3. There are little signs throughout 3A that point to it such as: Neal using Roland as shadow bait (demonstrating reckless risk taking behaviour)
Emma saying to Neal “I wish you were dead”
Neal saying to PanHenry that he’d always be there for him (Tempting fate just like “Everything’s going to be okay”, “it can’t get any worse” and “I’ll be right back”)

I agree & also with @obisgirls post- in hindsight, you can see the trail of breadcrumbs leading up to to Neal death.

[surayya]

I was in the show chat when this happened & it was so uncomfortable lol. Yeah when it comes to stuff with our ship we’ve been good about predicting it’s direction. The show has been very good to our ship. It’s just that how it read was that CS shippers are smart and SFers cant’t see past the end of their nose. What’s worse is when it was said right in the middle of the episode dealing with Neal’s death. So it also came off like we were celebrating that he’s no longer a threat to our ship. Just bad taste, I felt so bad that I apologized to the whole chat. I predicted Neal’s death I know there were others that did too but it just didn’t seem to gloat about it when many SFers were in mourning and that’s how it looked like a giant “I told you so.”

I dont go into live chat anymore- so I didnt even ‘click’ that is when it would have been said. I feel for any SF’ers who took it out of context & maybe they should really have left reading that particular email until after this weeks ep- out of courtesy for the SF fans. I honestly think if anyone took offense, it should have been the podcast crew to apologise (for reading it out then, rather than a later date when things werent so emotionally charged).

It seems the shipping wars are even reaching into the podcast if an agreeing with an email by saying ‘yeah, these guys do seem to be having a run of correct interpretations lately’ is going to come off as ‘I told you so’. I mean it’s not like people were scared to say ‘Oh, I was totally right! Cora or Pan or Graham did die!’- plenty of people called ‘called it’ when those deaths happened (except maybe Graham). I think this time it’s worse simply due to all the shipping war hatred that has been flung around, so people are extra sensitive.

I’m still sad we lost Neal, but I wont feel bad for being correct about seeing it coming either.

 

I don’t know. It’s an ego boost to say “yeah! we were right!” but I’m sure when Jen said “it’s always fun to kiss someone” I mean, really, it was a 50/50 shot it was going to be Hook. That much was obvious to everyone, I’d think. I think when it comes to Emma’s ‘ship stuff, really, you’ve got a 50/50 shot. So if CS is actually where they decide to go, then yeah, we’re going to be right. If they decide to bring in another love interest, our chances of calling shots correctly could go down dramatically. (Not to, you know, poop on our parade, but especially when others are upset, it’s probably a good idea to remember the situation objectively…) That doesn’t make me upset that we have been right though…!

I agree with you here- we could start getting it wrong just as much as anyone else IF they decide to change story direction on us. We have only been correct so far, because we interpret the story telling as heading in our ships direction (although if we saw the story telling heading away from our ships direction, we’d probably notice that too) & I guess we have picked up more of the character’s bread crumbs that A&E have laid out with each episode. All it will take to change that is a 180 degree turn in story telling & we could just as easily be wrong.

[surayya]

Ok- so what are peoples thoughts on the whole Hook/Killian traveled back in time to save Emma thing?

Is the latest one I’ve seen.

I’m not really sure I buy it, but there are some interesting & well thought out theories out there (although the whole time travel paradox thing makes me go in circles & doubt it as a possibility on how it could work with-in the context of how most people have laid it lol)

[Jenna_B]

‘Cause seriously, I can’t handle thinking about the death anymore, I’m just going to post about one of my favorite scenes to date – Emma & Hook in her apt in NY Serenade:
~~

Anonymous
When Emma tells Hook, “Wait here,” before heading out to speak to Walsh, I always interpreted it as she cared about Walsh’s feelings there, not Hook’s. She don’t know Walsh was a monkey yet, and she didn’t want Hook to interfere in her conversation with Walsh. I’m not saying my interpretation is the right one, but to me it certainly changed the way I saw that scene between Emma and Hook.

~

Well no, I definitely don’t think she wanted him to interfere w/the conversation. LOL…Can’t say I blame her for that one. She didn’t know he was a flying monkey and she just spent 8 months of being in a serious relationship with him. Which she immediately made the choice to abandon the minute she got her memories back and saw Hook standing in front of her. That’s the point. She hated that she was going to break his heart, she knows what that feels like. I think she acted exactly as anyone in her position would. But the way she looks back at Hook and the way she was speaking to him was so tender and genuine. She cares about Hook’s feelings, she just got through confiding in him about how she’s feeling emotionally about the situation and what she’s going to tell Henry.

Hook and Emma, for all of their romantic moments, are friends. Like Adam said, Hook is Emma’s closest friend outside of her parents. That was important to establish first and I absolutely love it. I took that scene, even though it had loads of tension, to be more about Hook just being Emma’s friend and giving her support.

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http://the-lady-swan.tumblr.com/post/81834970803/when-emma-tells-hook-wait-here-before-heading-out

~~~~~~

I love how Emma says “wait here”. I never interpreted it as Emma telling Hook not to go up to the roof; rather, it was her way of saying don’t be gone when I get back. She’s ending her relationship with Walsh. If she was second guessing that plan, she would have gotten Hook out of the apartment. But no, she wanted him there, to be present when she came back after breaking up with Walsh. As awkward it may be. Because the foundation of their relationship is friendship and that friendship remains strong when things aren’t pretty or neat. Oh, how I love my ship!! Sigh. Swoon. Sigh.

[obisgirl]

As much as I hate watching the episode late,  I’m actually glad I don’t have to deal with the live chat when episodes come on.  But I’ve said it before (though probably not here) but there’s a bigger story beyond Neal’s death. There’s still more story to tell. Like the final battle that was mentioned in the pilot?

I actually like the podcast has mostly stayed away from ‘ships territory because it’s not a ‘ship oriented podcast.  It’s about the show and the story.

[surayya]

I think most of us have maintained that Emma & Killian would become close/best friends before lovers, as they do have that special connection going on & i agree with you on that scene @Jenna_B.

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