The Captain Swan thread!

[MysteryKat25]

In case anybody does venture over to Tumblr…

There are some people intent on crashing our tag and telling us stuff from Lost that backs them up (especially now that MRJ is a regular) so that SF will happen and that CS will end up like…(spoilers in case anybody wants to watch Lost which I recommend):

Skate – I love Sawyer & Kate and we had LOTS of hints for them in the first few seasons. Then Sawyer jumped off a helicopter so that the rest would be safe and Kate could take care of baby Aaron and all he asked was that she go make sure HIS kid was alright back home & taken care of as well. Then Sawyer mistakeningly thought the helicopter blew up, he was left stranded on the island with Juliet – they eventually fell in love so that 3 years later when Kate returned he was still happy to see her but he ended up with Juliet.

I get why people *might* think that the new Skate is CaptainSwan because we seem to be getting them early, they understand each other / are similar / have a strong connection. But does the jumping out of the helicopter to make sure that Kate gets home and is able to take care of the various children in his life sound familiar to anyone??

I was worried about the Skate vs Jate comparisons because I loved Skate and it didn't happen. However, based on the stuff we've already talked about plenty in this thread, I feel very strongly that CaptainSwan is a huge possibility. Even when Skate was happening full out, there were still clear signs of the jealousy on both Jack Kate's parts etc so it was subtle but there and I got used to it but didn't love it. On Once, all of the jealousy stuff on Emma's part is (hopefully) over because she has more info to go off now and that was pre-really connecting with Hook. Or at least reconnecting and seeing the good side of him that she CAN trust.

So then we get to CaptainSwan who are very similar and this is still early on and that worried me a little…until I thought more about the portal thing. Neal was basically saying you have to be safe, you have to get back to my kid so he doesn't grow up like we did, I love you. Now…Sawyer basically said the same to Kate (although it was whispered) and THEY DID NOT END UP TOGETHER. Time passed with him thinking that Kate was dead, he moved on with someone else who became the love of his life, as much as he was happy to see Kate alive and well later on.

So OUAT-wise…Neal went through the portal to save Emma so she could be there for Henry. Just like Sawyer with the helicopter (ironically Sawyer's ex/mother of his kid was named Cassidy). The only difference this time is that Emma is the one who thinks he's dead and not the other way around. Even getting major CaptainSwan hints right now, I don’t think by any means that it shows what will happen later on regarding the SwanFire stuff. I really do think we will get CaptainSwan and the portal gives me a little bit of hope. It’s closure for her and time will pass and even with a *forced* love triangle, it should go back to CaptainSwan in the end.

MM in that quote I shared from above doesn’t want Emma to revert to the person she was before. I think being around Hook, Emma will be able to embrace who she is today and not want to go back to what she once was. Just like Neal didn’t want to be turned into a 14 year old again. As many characters have made mistakes, most (basically anybody other than August…) do not want to go back to a different time but are embracing who they are today because of what they’ve been through (think Charming’s speech in We Are Both). All of these things give me hope.

Eventually Neal will find someone else, though I think he’ll come back and see CS spending time together and get upset. I just hope by that time Emma has found herself and can identify the differences between her relationships with both guys.

[obisgirl]

so, I finally watched the episode.

Hook pulled a Han Solo and he came back. He didn’t have to think about it for 11 years. It probably took him a few minutes, seconds even. But he came back. Not only that, you know what happens in the Star Wars books right? Han and Leia eventually get married and have three kids together. And if Hook is anything like Han, Hook and Emma will probably “hook” up and maybe, one day, get married and have their own little CS babies… 😆 😆.

Emma’s speech to Hook in Granny’s diner reminded me Claire’s speech to Peter in Heroes season one episode, “The Hard Part.” Where she said that Hook could be a part of something. I think that really hit home with him, because his father abandoned him and I really think, he desperately wanted to make a family with Baelfire and abandon his revenge. He wanted a family, to be a part of something special. And he probably remembered that.

[MysteryKat25]

Agreed Obisgirl! And love your Han Solo analogy!

Neal regretted everything and waited to NOT go back to her for 11 years!
Hook regretted it and went back in mere minutes!

One would have had nothing to do with her had he known who she really was
The other admires the woman she is today and appreciates her for it and he CAME BACK FOR HER

Let’s think about this, shall we?

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[surayya]

@MysteryKat25 wrote:

Agreed Obisgirl! And love your Han Solo analogy!

Neal regretted everything and waited to NOT go back to her for 11 years!
Hook regretted it and went back in mere minutes!

One would have had nothing to do with her had he known who she really was
The other admires the woman she is today and appreciates her for it and he CAME BACK FOR HER

Let’s think about this, shall we?

Exactly & could maybe account for some of the uber CS hate 😉

[surayya]

With their Skate references wouldn’t that just back CS up more tho…. (unless I REALLY need to go back & watch Lost again 😕 ) Jack & Kate weren't 'together' in the beginning, just attracted to each other & they fought it (Like CS), Kate went to Sawyer- who she could relate too, Then to Jack who she was scared of having a relationship with because of who she could be with him. Or are they thinking Jack = Neal & if so, how so? The way I see it is Kate & sawyer had the 'dark' past's- sure Jack had one too, just not quite to the same level. Jack is supposed to be the good/lighter guy & paired with the darker girl (like Sawyer was the darker guy paired with 'lighter' girl)- in our case, it's the good/lighter girl (Emma) with the darker guy (Hook)- not (supposed) good/light Neal with good/light Emma. I want Neal/Regina to happen (cause there's no one else around for her yet)- she needs someone to “be” light for, yes she need's to want to be good, but she needs a reason to “stay” good & who loves her for her above all others- she cant get that from Henry- he loves both his mothers & his father, & rightly refuses to 'choose' one over the other in love. At the end of the day they ALL want the same thing- love & family to love & be loved, I hope they all get it 🙂
Totally agree with you on Neal/Sawyer portal/helicopter parallel.

[surayya]

Reading between the lines of this interview http://onceuponatime-fans.com/season-2-2/kecks-exclusives-once-upon-a-time-loses-its-little-red-to-cbs It seems the Neverland stuff is a whole new idea, conceived during beginning S2 😯 Could it be what (I think it was) Kat or was it obsgirl, was referring too- in Hook being made a regular early S2 maybe!?

[MysteryKat25]

Surayya – I’m not sure who they’re comparing to who at the moment! I would hazard a guess that they think Emma/Hook = Kate/Sawyer because they are so similar which means they think she will end up wtih Neal who I suppose they think is Jack. That works if you're bending the way of thinking so that your coupling pairs out but as I've just pointed out Neal basically pulled a Sawyer just now the portal vs helicopter thing. Honestly both guy could probably be used as Sawyer because of the thieving angle etc. I feel like I always end up in the Skate version of things where it doesn't ultimately happen but at the same time I have way more hope for CaptainSwan (and more reason to hope frankly) than I did with Skate. I think the portal scene being so similar to the helicopter scene is prime reason to either toss Lost logic out the window, or follow it down the rabbit hole and say that it points to Neal NOT ending up with Emma because Sawyer didn't end up with Kate in pretty much the exact same scenario. Whatever leads to CaptainSwan happening and being endgame I'm all for so whatever floats your boat. Just don't tell me my ship doesn't work because you cast Neal as Jack without paying much attention!

I think with regarding the S2 / Neverland stuff, they were excited to get the rights (finally) but had already revamped S1 around not having them so Hook may or may not have been a huge part of their plans other than they wanted to show him and have him connected to the Rumple / Bae storylines and then they loved what they saw in the Crocodile & Tallahassee (and really who can blame them) and that storylines may have shifted. I think once they saw what he could do they realized how awesome the NL storyline could be and moved that up a bit too probably.

I know a similar thing happened with Lost regarding Ben Linus – when we met him he was supposed to have a min-arc pretending to be Henry Gale…they loved Michael Emerson so much (as do I!) that they made him the leader of the Others and look how important / integral to the plot he became! They know a good thing when they see it. 😉

I’m glad that they saw just how electric and layered he can play Hook because it opened up a lot of story options for them. I remember the feedback from the writers being interesting around the time of Tallahassee and I have a feeling since it struck such a chord with people (and launched 2 ships…) that they probably moved a lot of stuff up to bring those options more to the forefront. Thank goodness they did that with Hook though I can’t imagine just ditching him after Tallahassee!

There were obviously issues later in the season with Colin’s leg and everything that benched him for a bit and gave Neal a lot of screentime and in some cases (not saying shippers aren’t loyal but…), people that are torn or borderline torn pretty much like whatever is getting screentime at the moment. If you love both / see both pairings, you’re more and more torn when you’re getting a lot of time with just the 1 and then the other comes back and you like that one too. Neal has gotten a lot of screentime which has helped promote the SF pairing a lot because screentime usually = importance and we’ve been seeing more of one than the other. I think the finale balanced things out though and was very positive on the CaptainSwan front and hopefully next season wil be a bit more balanced or skew the other way to give Hook a chance to win people over too….

At this point with how they’ve shown everything in the show and how important things are *technically speaking* with the quotes, the looks, the symbolism, the flashbacks and how they affect present-day etc PLUS all the interviews, the major hints at PaleyFest and the fact that the writers were so fired up about the CaptainSwan chemistry from Tallahassee, I will be very very upset and really not sure what to think if it doesn’t end up happening or be longterm. Not because of my love for the ship, but because we were given a number of legit reasons TO ship it. It’s not just they look good together, or their chemistry leapt off the screen. We saw the same thing for Mad Swan because the actors were interested in each other and are now dating. It’s more than that (and far less shallow than just thinking they’re hot together even though they are).

All of the things I mentioned above have given us reason to believe that within the mythology it’s a legitimate ship to follow based on how they’ve done everything else. If they’re yanking our chains I’m going to be ticked.

Even having a preference I stayed mostly neutral early on and tried not to get my hopes up because I could see storywise why both work and why both have fans (I still get the why part). That being said we haven’t been shown all that much in those *technical* ways, nor have any interviews really done much other than point out that Emma is still reacting to this love from a decade ago and she has some built up issues because of it and is a little jealous (completely understandable, he is the father of her kid and she didn’t get closure before – at this point I feel like the portal was her closure).

MRJ in his interviews from last week kept answering things the way the fans pretty much wanted: there’s still a chance with Emma, he cares about her, he gave her up so that she could be with her family, he was afraid she’d never forgive him etc etc. That’s fine, most of his fans want to hear he can still be with Emma, I get that. Everything an actor says has to be taken with a grain of salt but the interesting thing here is that the next batch of interviews he changes things a bit. He focuses on shipping happy endings. And not painting the writers into a corner and saying specifically what he wants. And the fact that Bae’s main focus is family. Not specifically Emma. FAMILY (which I firmly believe IS Bae’s main focus – he wants to be near Henry, he wants to find a way to reconnect with Rumple etc. He wants to belong and not be abandoned again). I think this second batch of interviews is interesting especially because of the “not painting writers into a corner” thing which makes me wonder if it’s possible if they saw he was answering one way and said “wait a minute, please don’t make it sound like they have to be together because we have other things in mind.”

Now, that may or may not have happened, it’s just a bit change that I noticed in one interview late in the season when most of his interviews he mentions SwanFire rather than Bae just wants a family. Mentioning the writers made it seem to me like maybe they keep changing things up and while anything is possible, he may have originally been pitched the role as son of Rumple, father of Henry, and then after Tallahassee I think they started playing on the SF thing because it struck a chord with so many people. Remember last season, we all were pretty much set to hate Henry’s dad because of how Emma talked of him but then Tallahassee gave him a ton of sympathy because he didn’t want to leave her, he just tried to do the right thing (and I think we all know how I feel about his storyline after that encounter with August. GRR too many reasons not to go back to him even though I adore Bae).

So…basically things change along the way. I think BOTH guys were brought into much heavier focus than originally intended (wasn’t this season supposed to be throwing a lot of suitors at Emma?), but I’m glad that we’re getting that. We can’t really get rid of either, especially if CaptainSwan is going to have a chance. We don’t want Emma to have to go for choice B because choice A is dead, that doesn’t work at all. Bae is obviously important to the fabric of the story since he was the reason for the curse and he’s important in the Rumple & Henry storylines regardless of who he’s paired with (I’m hoping for him & Regina personally – especially now that it looks like she’s turned a corner and if she can stick with it, could be good for him and vice versa).

That interview encouraged me by his thing about not wanting to force the writers to do what it sounded like he was saying they would (ie: encouraging too much SF love because there’s at least a possibility it’s not going to happen with where they are in the game now). I noticed with Meghan’s interview about leaving that her thing was kinda changed mid-season because they shorted Snow & Emma’s being away, and then they geared up toward Neverland etc etc, and with how the end of the season played out (especially the finale with SO much CaptainSwan stuff in it that wasn’t flirty or full of innuendos but was legit, character-driven moments that are real and substantial and callback to earlier things and build on them as we’ve discussed at length) I think that things DO change mid-season sometimes and that this may be one of those.

I think they liked what they saw in Tallahassee and brought the SF aspect to the forefront a bit more rather than just having Emma have issues with Neal because of all that but then his main focus would have been Rumple and Bae. Instead we got hints of him still wanting Emma (even though he was bound and determined to marry the psychopath Tamara while giggling that Emma was jealous but whatever). I think they brought him a bit too far front with that as a “potential suitor to Emma” but hopefully they can convincingly show her as being stronger now and not wanting to revert back to the person that she was.

No matter what happens they’re probably going to tick off half their fanbase which means lots of people threatening not to watch, others being determined that Emma & ____ is just a stepping stone (one way or the other) etc etc. Not everybody is going to be thrilled about how the pairings worked out (just like on Lost, goodness knows I wasn’t happy but I found a way to deal with it and still love the show).

I sincerely hope both guys find love with *someone* and that we can be happy for them as I love both characters, but if they set up too much stuff in favor of one *cough* CaptainSwan *cough* and then screw it up it’ll be a slap in the face – likewise if they keep portraying Neal as a puppy dog who keeps getting kicked and Hook as the guy who keeps taking things away from him, I can’t say I would blame his fans for being upset either (even though I see things from a different angle being a huge Hook & CaptainSwan fan). I think ultimately we need Emma & Neal to have an argument that ends up probably being a screaming match but somewhere down the line him realizing too that he & Emma were right 11 years ago and not now. He needs to SEE that and own up to that or we’re going to have to hear about it for forever (just like I would assume CaptainSwan people would rally together should all our foreshadowing of something real and lasting be for naught). They’re not setting up CaptainSwan as a fling (that ship sailed once Neal was “dead”). What we’ve seen so far is setting it up as an epic true love tale like all the rest. (And in none of those does the Disney princess revert back to being the timid girl she started out being I might add…)

Sorry for the rant, I didn’t have internet overnight (grr!) and I guess it all built up in wanting to respond!

Really need to go back and find interviews relating to Tallahassee to see what was said but given where the season ended up…I think they like CaptainSwan’s potential…a lot. 🙂

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[Killian Jones]

Just got a vision for the opening shot for season 3 based on that drawing :). Imagine a close up of the lense of Hook’s spyglass so we’re all made to think it’s Hook but they pan back to show it’s really Emma holding the lense and she’s dressed in an awesome pirate outfit now with Hook standing behind her and he tells her something like… “I told you before you’d make a hell of pirate”

So this is how people start wrting fanfics lol

[MysteryKat25]

@steliokontos1 wrote:

Just got a vision for the opening shot for season 3 based on that drawing :). Imagine a close up of the lense of Hook’s spyglass so we’re all made to think it’s Hook but they pan back to show it’s really Emma holding the lense and she’s dressed in an awesome pirate outfit now with Hook standing behind her and he tells her something like… “I told you before you’d make a hell of pirate”

So this is how people start wrting fanfics lol

That is EXACTLY how it begins!

I’ve only ever written any for Tin Man and that was ages ago but I am planning on doing some this summer for CaptainSwan for sure! It’s time I put my rambling to good use and I need to do my summer writing challenges anyway and hopefully get something edited and sent out by the end of the year…. Basically instead of just rambling on in here (sorry guys! I don’t realize just how much I write sometimes til I have to keep scrolling :S), I can aid the fandom a bit better hopefully with some fanfic to tide us over instead. After all anybody seeing this thread basically agrees anyway (for the most part) or at least tolerates it enough not to say anything which basically = me preaching to the choir when I go on a tangent (sorry!!!)

I will say though that seeing all of the things that people have brought in here about the things they’ve noticed that help make us feel a part of something legit rather than the freakouts that I (and maybe some others) were having awhile back and every little bit helps show we’re not delusional so I am all for that! (Can you tell that word really bugged me the other night? I love a good discussion and I know it’s going to take a LOT to ever get anybody to like it – I hope the finale helped people like Hook a little more and I think it might have – but every little bit to help US feel like WE have a real chance is a good thing. This time next season I want to see a lot more support for CS and more people switching over and being able to say we were here all along and believed in it). *Fingers crossed*

Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.

[obisgirl]

@steliokontos1 wrote:

Just got a vision for the opening shot for season 3 based on that drawing :). Imagine a close up of the lense of Hook’s spyglass so we’re all made to think it’s Hook but they pan back to show it’s really Emma holding the lense and she’s dressed in an awesome pirate outfit now with Hook standing behind her and he tells her something like… “I told you before you’d make a hell of pirate”

So this is how people start wrting fanfics lol

I like that. 😀

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