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I really like Bae as a boy, he was great. But something happened to him along the way and I didn’t like Neal as much. Somehow I couldn’t quite connect Bae/Neal in my mind as being the same person.
That’s what was what hard for me to reconcile in season two. Baelfire and Neal felt like two completely different people for a string of episodes for me. Pretty much up until the season two finale and then finally, I saw Bae in Neal. But then I remembered that Adam and Eddie actually considered making Bae and Neal two separate characters for a bit but they decided, even after we figured out that they were the same character, to make them same.
[adrotate group="5"]You all have convinced me…I have Frozen on my *to do* list!!
I mean if Elsa may be harassing our Captain this fall, I better know a bit more about her (grin).And I can’t resist Broadway type songs!
***Always in search of a good flock***
I really like Bae as a boy, he was great. But something happened to him along the way and I didn’t like Neal as much. Somehow I couldn’t quite connect Bae/Neal in my mind as being the same person.
That’s what was what hard for me to reconcile in season two. Baelfire and Neal felt like two completely different people for a string of episodes for me. Pretty much up until the season two finale and then finally, I saw Bae in Neal. But then I remembered that Adam and Eddie actually considered making Bae and Neal two separate characters for a bit but they decided, even after we figured out that they were the same character, to make them same.
I wish they had kept Bae/Neal as separate characters. As great as MRJ is an actor, he brought nothing of Bae’s original character to the story (that’s my opinion, and I’m sticking to it). They could have waited to introduce Neal (and not as Emma’s ex) by having Dylan Schmidt come back for some backstory and as the actor is getting older, have him show Bae’s progression into becoming the adult Neal. As for showing Emma’s backstory in Tallahasse, any random actor could have filled that role, and I’ll bet you if that had been the case, all of the SF shippers would be hating on him for the rotten way he ditched Emma. But hey, being Rumples son earns you an automatic halo, no matter how abhorrently you behave.
I feel that way too Lola and I love Rumple, but no way I am ever going to give Neal a pass for leaving her. If I learned anything from the flashbacks in Tallahassee, it’s that it was a VERY traumatic experience for Emma and that, we as the audience were meant to sympathize more with her and understand why she is the way she is.
How do you do that? As a writer, I would compare and contrast Neal with another character who promised from the start that he would be there for her. And that character is Hook, who has not only promised to come back her but actually did, more than once too.
Remember, Neal could have gone after Emma in Broken after the curse was broken but he stayed away. And Emma knows that he knew about the curse. JMo confirmed that.
Lurker here, hi :). The finale was everything I hoped it would be, and I’ve rewatched it more times than I care to admit to. My favorite scenes were with past Hook. I loved Killian creeping around behind them, it reminded me of Moulin Rouge.
I can’t even with Saint Neal, so I won’t. I notice a lot of the people talking about rape culture and Hook being a misogynist, are the same ones who believe he stole Milah. Which he didn’t, she made a choice – which seems to only be okay for a woman to make as long as all the other women in the world agree with her. Apparently we all should just stay in loveless relationships because… history? Emma was walled off, the only way to break through that is by being there for her so that she realizes he isn’t going anywhere. He never forced her and she never said no. The one unwelcomed kiss – she kicked him in the junk. She is hardly a delicate flower. I don’t even know if I made sense, I’m annoyed.
First of all, welcome lurker @J!
I find it insulting, as a woman, to be “educated” and “informed” on the so-called “rape culture” inflicted on us by a fictional tv show. I’m sorry, should I and the thousands of other female CS shippers be handing in their “lady” cards because they disagree? Do you honestly think that Jane or Kalinda or Christine would let Adam and Eddy get away with any kind of misogynistic behaviour? The female writers are Hook’s biggest fans! The haters don’t get to define what other viewers, be it women or men, find offensive. And the aggression they’ve shown in harassing Adam and Eddy just goes to show what a bunch of idiots they are. I want to share a post I read a while ago by ladyhacksaway on tumblr that addressed the issue of the so called “Rape Culture” on Once. Maybe the haters should be reading this instead of passing around their crap as fact. It has some inappropriate language so I’ll post the link, but I want to share one (edited) paragraph, because it specifically applies to Hook.
It makes me really angry as a rape survivor, which is why I didn’t bother answering until I got multiple asks, to watch people cheapen and use the “rape culture” line as a defense so they can win a petty argument just to make people feel bad. Rape culture is a serious (edit) problem that involves my rapist not knowing he’s a rapist. You don’t get to (edit) throw around “Hook is a rapist” because you feel like you need some shitty social justice excuse to hate a character.
A/E have confirmed he IS NOT guilty of any sexual assault, and yet they don’t stop, because they aren’t interested in facts
You all have convinced me…I have Frozen on my *to do* list!!
I mean if Elsa may be harassing our Captain this fall, I better know a bit more about her (grin).And I can’t resist Broadway type songs!You will love the movie 🙂
The haters will always come up with ridiculous arguments, even if there’s canon facts out that contradict those facts. Like the argument that Hook is soft because he’s fallen with Emma. When Adam and Eddie said that Hook is not soft, he’s not a puppy dog and why is it alright for the haters to Hook soft when Rumple and Regina (two big villains from season one) also have their own true loves and are essentially redeemed as well? I don’t see anyone calling Rumple or Regina soft.
That’s why the hate and the double-standards honestly make me sick. I’ve been doing this fandom/’shipping thing for a long, LONG time but this is honestly the worst I have ever seen it.
I’m not necessarily going to lump SF fans with anti-Hook fans. But I will address those that argue both points. The irony is, the anti-Hook/SF fans are incredibly vocal, probably more vocal than those that are pro-SF and don’t really care either way about Hook. Which is unfortunate. Because though I like Neal, I like him far less because of these ‘fans’ who feel the need to bash other characters on the show, especially the one they presume is competition for their character/ship.
The anti-Hook people want to argue that he’s a misogynist and will go as far as to insinuate or incorporate the concept of rape with him. I have enormous issue with this. Those concepts should NEVER be taken lightly. And we’ve discussed this, but I just have GOT to get this off my chest because it’s bothering me to no end, and god knows we’ve been faced with it thoughout the forum/fandom.
Let’s break a little bit of OUAT history down, and do a little math. Emma broke the curse 28 years after her birth. Henry was 10 when he found Emma. So…that means Emma was 18 when she gave birth to Henry. Gestation is approximately 35-40 weeks, so…even if Emma had Henry on the last day of her 18th year, she still was barely 18 when she got pregnant. Which also means Emma and Neal were either together for an EXTREMELY short period of time before she got pregnant, or they got together when she was 17.
We’ve never really been able to pinpoint Neal’s exact age but the general consensus is he’s about early-mid 20s when he and Emma meet. The most common age I’ve seen, based on his wanted poster and whatnot is 24.
Emma: 17. Neal: 24.
What does Neal ask upon their first meeting? He asks Emma, a 17 year old, out for drinks. Is this appropriate? No. She’s underage. He encourages the underage Emma to steal. Appropriate? No. Should a 24 year old know better and be acting responsibly? Yes. They obviously become a couple and participate in, ahem, relations, since a child is concieved in said loving relationship. HE’S 24. SHE’S 17. When you’re 30 and he’s 37, 7 years isn’t too much of an age difference. When you’re 17, I don’t care if you went to church every Sunday with your loving parents and siblings or grew up on the streets – the age difference is ENORMOUS. And completely, utterly inappropriate.And the people who support this relatiomship, rationalize this relationship, argue it’s foundation is perfectly healthy, want to accuse Hook of misogyny and ‘rape’. Now, I’m not stupid. I know the Hook we first met was Captain Innuendo. And he didn’t direct this only toward Emma – he was an equal opportunity…’innuendo-ist’. And he did some pretty nasty things in the name of love and revenge. But he also realized the err of his ways, and consciously made a decision to change and to become a better man. Did that stop him from flirting with Emma? No. Why should it? Flirting – especially between two consenting adults (and to suggest it’s not consenting is nonsense) is not only acceptable, it’s FUN! And a part of modern day courtship! Emma could have said no. And the pirate with a code would’ve backed off. But she didn’t. She consciously included him and incorporated him into her life – in S2 when they left for NL, throughout 3A (I seem to remember a kiss in there somewhere – again, perhaps instigated by flirting but see my prior comment), and in 3B.
Ok. This is ridiculously long. But I’ve tried for so long to try to understand the ‘other side of the coin’ and have seen just a little too much ugly in return. But now it’s off my chest, so I feel so much better. Methinks I will watch our CANON COUPLE go to a ball, do some hiney kicking and true lovin’ with a much lighter disposition. 🙂
Ok. This is ridiculously long. But I’ve tried for so long to try to understand the ‘other side of the coin’ and have seen just a little too much ugly in return. But now it’s off my chest, so I feel so much better. Methinks I will watch our CANON COUPLE go to a ball, do some hiney kicking and true lovin’ with a much lighter disposition.
That’s why the hate and the double-standards honestly make me sick. I’ve been doing this fandom/’shipping thing for a long, LONG time but this is honestly the worst I have ever seen it.
And this is why I love this thread! AGREE, AGREE, AGREE!
This message was approved by my husband . . . who is a man.
And NOT a misogynistic pig even though he likes my boobs.HAHAHA @rumplegoldfan, I do believe I like your husband! And you can let him know that even I was impressed by Emma’s cleavage. If you’ve got a pair of perky girls, you might as well show them off.
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