The Captain Swan thread!

[Killian Jones]

^^^ I had the same look on my face as Killian when Emma let the girls out to play in that scene lol

[Epona_610]

Yes, yes, and yes to all of the above! I too have been trying to understand some of where of those with opposing viewpoints are coming from, but it just gets out of hand so quickly. I’m guessing there are a couple of rational arguments in there somewhere (I admit I do have to cringe at the scene in Rumpel’s old cell in “Queen of Hearts”), but amidst all of the hypocrisy and hyperbole I can’t seem to find any.

And it’s true that one of the worst things about the rape-culture accusations is that that IS a real problem, and this kind of thing just makes light of it. Ugh.

[surayya]

I wish they had kept Bae/Neal as separate characters. As great as MRJ is an actor, he brought nothing of Bae’s original character to the story (that’s my opinion, and I’m sticking to it). They could have waited to introduce Neal (and not as Emma’s ex) by having Dylan Schmidt come back for some backstory and as the actor is getting older, have him show Bae’s progression into becoming the adult Neal. As for showing Emma’s backstory in Tallahasse, any random actor could have filled that role, and I’ll bet you if that had been the case, all of the SF shippers would be hating on him for the rotten way he ditched Emma. But hey, being Rumples son earns you an automatic halo, no matter how abhorrently you behave.

Amen!

Remember, Neal could have gone after Emma in Broken after the curse was broken but he stayed away. And Emma knows that he knew about the curse. JMo confirmed that.

This is going to sound very catty- but right now, in this instant (after seeing some of the crud being touted about), I dont care- Gosh, you forget- We’re supposed to have selective memories, remember?! He’s Rumple’s son & got teenage Emma pregant, so we HAVE to love him, forgive him no matter what & hate any other suitor for Emma- no matter if they’ve clearly been shown from the word go that they are the better person for her in every way, shape & form 😉 :p

[ellemo78]

Epona_610 said:

I admit I do have to cringe at the scene in Rumpel’s old cell in “Queen of Hearts”

I agree, it’s not his best moment, I admit.  But you can tell Hook was already a little taken by her in the Tallahassee ep – he was glad she was the one who volunteered to go with him; the way he bandaged her hand *swoon*; offering her his hand to take once the compass was found and they were about to leave – and her leaving him with the giant just made his heart that little bit harder. So yeah, it wasn’t a nice thing to say, but she started it 😉

If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness

[surayya]

I find it insulting, as a woman, to be “educated” and “informed” on the so-called “rape culture” inflicted on us by a fictional tv show. I’m sorry, should I and the thousands of other female CS shippers be handing in their “lady” cards because they disagree? Do you honestly think that Jane or Kalinda or Christine would let Adam and Eddy get away with any kind of misogynistic behaviour? The female writers are Hook’s biggest fans! The haters don’t get to define what other viewers, be it women or men, find offensive. And the aggression they’ve shown in harassing Adam and Eddy just goes to show what a bunch of idiots they are. I want to share a post I read a while ago by ladyhacksaway on tumblr that addressed the issue of the so called “Rape Culture” on Once. Maybe the haters should be reading this instead of passing around their crap as fact. It has some inappropriate language so I’ll post the link, but I want to share one (edited) paragraph, because it specifically applies to Hook.

Yes, that is a very good point raised by someone the victim of such a crime… Brings a whole new level of totally idiocy to the haters arguments… I sometimes wonder if they even bother looking up the definitions of some of the crimes they accuse Hook of…. I mean I have yet to see Hook “hate” a women because she’s a women, yet that is the definition of a misogynist!LMAO!
I always find it entertaining (to a point) to point out how interpretations & meanings can be easily mistaken in todays culture, when talking to other shippers- or even just people in general tbh.

For instance When we say CaptainInnuendo, we are referring to captain of “sexual innuendos”- of which these have acquired a specific meaning, namely that of a “risqué” double entendre, by playing on a possibly sexual interpretation of an otherwise innocent uttering. Ie. “We need to go deeper” can be seen as both a request for further inquiry on any given issue or a request to go deeper into an orifice.

This is different than straight innuendo, which means “an indirect remark about somebody or something, usually suggesting something bad, mean or rude; the use of which is often used to express disapproval.

Now add in context & Hook obviously hasnt used innuendo’s to “express disapproval” of any women he’s meet- it’s actually been quite the opposite- does that make it acceptable, not really- esp if it isnt wanted/ taken for what it is (ie. Snow), does it make him a noble man- of course not, but nor does it make him a misogynist or rapist either.

I mean seriously, if you are going to hate on something or someone, at least get the base ‘facts’ at the core of your argument/s straight 1st.

[Epona_610]

@ellemo78  (I’d quote your response but I can’t seem to get it to work!) Yeah, I agree–he was pretty clearly hurt and lashing out. I’d be pretty mad too if someone I’d thought I was working with turned around and left me with a giant up a beanstalk! Not that I can really blame her either after juxtaposing those events with the huge betrayal she’d suffered in the past.

But if someone were already on the anti-Hook side of things, I can see citing his little discourse there as a point against him. Not that that compares in any way to leaving the person you claim to love to serve time in jail for your crimes because someone shows up claiming that you’re in the way of her fulfilling her destiny and then not coming back after said destiny had been fulfilled even though you swore you would…ahem.

[surayya]

I’m not necessarily going to lump SF fans with anti-Hook fans. But I will address those that argue both points. The irony is, the anti-Hook/SF fans are incredibly vocal, probably more vocal than those that are pro-SF and don’t really care either way about Hook. Which is unfortunate. Because though I like Neal, I like him far less because of these ‘fans’ who feel the need to bash other characters on the show, especially the one they presume is competition for their character/ship.
The anti-Hook people want to argue that he’s a misogynist and will go as far as to insinuate or incorporate the concept of rape with him. I have enormous issue with this. Those concepts should NEVER be taken lightly. And we’ve discussed this, but I just have GOT to get this off my chest because it’s bothering me to no end, and god knows we’ve been faced with it thoughout the forum/fandom.

Let’s break a little bit of OUAT history down, and do a little math. Emma broke the curse 28 years after her birth. Henry was 10 when he found Emma. So…that means Emma was 18 when she gave birth to Henry. Gestation is approximately 35-40 weeks, so…even if Emma had Henry on the last day of her 18th year, she still was barely 18 when she got pregnant. Which also means Emma and Neal were either together for an EXTREMELY short period of time before she got pregnant, or they got together when she was 17.

We’ve never really been able to pinpoint Neal’s exact age but the general consensus is he’s about early-mid 20s when he and Emma meet. The most common age I’ve seen, based on his wanted poster and whatnot is 24.

Emma: 17. Neal: 24.
What does Neal ask upon their first meeting? He asks Emma, a 17 year old, out for drinks. Is this appropriate? No. She’s underage. He encourages the underage Emma to steal. Appropriate? No. Should a 24 year old know better and be acting responsibly? Yes. They obviously become a couple and participate in, ahem, relations, since a child is concieved in said loving relationship. HE’S 24. SHE’S 17. When you’re 30 and he’s 37, 7 years isn’t too much of an age difference. When you’re 17, I don’t care if you went to church every Sunday with your loving parents and siblings or grew up on the streets – the age difference is ENORMOUS. And completely, utterly inappropriate.

And the people who support this relatiomship, rationalize this relationship, argue it’s foundation is perfectly healthy, want to accuse Hook of misogyny and ‘rape’. Now, I’m not stupid. I know the Hook we first met was Captain Innuendo. And he didn’t direct this only toward Emma – he was an equal opportunity…’innuendo-ist’. And he did some pretty nasty things in the name of love and revenge. But he also realized the err of his ways, and consciously made a decision to change and to become a better man. Did that stop him from flirting with Emma? No. Why should it? Flirting – especially between two consenting adults (and to suggest it’s not consenting is nonsense) is not only acceptable, it’s FUN! And a part of modern day courtship! Emma could have said no. And the pirate with a code would’ve backed off. But she didn’t. She consciously included him and incorporated him into her life – in S2 when they left for NL, throughout 3A (I seem to remember a kiss in there somewhere – again, perhaps instigated by flirting but see my prior comment), and in 3B.

Ok. This is ridiculously long. But I’ve tried for so long to try to understand the ‘other side of the coin’ and have seen just a little too much ugly in return. But now it’s off my chest, so I feel so much better. Methinks I will watch our CANON COUPLE go to a ball, do some hiney kicking and true lovin’ with a much lighter disposition. 🙂

You said it sooooooo much better than I ever could @Jenna_B, I totally agree 🙂

& LOL @KJ – you guy, you 😉

[callmeLola]

^^^ I had the same look on my face as Killian when Emma let the girls out to play in that scene lol

@killianjones, you sir are a man of good taste 🙂

[ellemo78]

But if someone were already on the anti-Hook side of things, I can see citing his little discourse there as a point against him.

True enough. If you’ve already got a bee in your bonnet about a particular character *nothing* they do will ever be good enough.

Not that that compares in any way to leaving the person you claim to love to serve time in jail for your crimes because someone shows up claiming that you’re in the way of her fulfilling her destiny and then not coming back after said destiny had been fulfilled even though you swore you would…ahem.

Actually I never understood that. Why was being with Baelfire stopping her from fulfilling her destiny? Why couldn’t Neal have stayed with her and then taken her to Storybrooke when then time was right? And why was sending her to jail the thing to do? Did Neal dob her in, or was it August? And I never really like August, he seemed like a jerk. Either way, none of that made sense to me. Unless Neal really didn’t want to be saddled with her (after all, he was about to go to Canada without her).

If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness

[Epona_610]

I never understood that either–wouldn’t it be easier for her to fulfill her destiny if she had someone with her, guiding her or whatever? Isn’t that what August/Pinocchio was supposed to do when he went through the wardrobe anyway? I think A&E have said something like “he didn’t have any choice”, so maybe I’m missing something, but I would think that if you really loved someone you wouldn’t let some guy talk you into abandoning them. And of course he didn’t go after her either when he knew he could. Even if he really didn’t have any choice in leaving the first time, that choice speaks volumes.

Another random-but-related thing I’ve never understood: why on earth would that typewriter in a box with one sentence typed on a piece of paper do more to convince Neal than August just saying ” I know you’re Baelfire.” Either way, it seemed way too easy to convince Neal to leave. I know they only have so much time per episode, but still…

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