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Holy smokestacks, our thread is chugging along nicely atm, so many thoughts & discussion going on, it’s great 🙂
I can only skip though quickly atm (so much to do, so little time to get it all done!), but will throw in my 2cents worth about the book & story it tells (cant wait to read the rest later tonight…. what else are Friday nights for lol 😛 )
As far as I can conclude about the the book, it only seems to tell the stories set & based on Snowing’s EF kingdom characters- so no SB, NL, Wonderland based character stories are told- so I’m with @jenven.
I do think the point of Killy’s story not seeming to be in the book, is a good one, but I think it just adds credence to the theory that the stories contained with-in the book are only those directly related to Snowing themselves, which is why Killy & Emma appear only after their adventures- because they then helped to tell the Snowing tale.
I think this could be a good question to ask Adam to be honest, just to see if we can get some official clarification on it. But as of now, it is my opinion the book tells the tale of those involved in Snowing’s story up until the curse hit & that’s it.
EDIT: LOL, just saw everyone’s covered my points on the book in previous posts…. I should really learn to type faster :p
[adrotate group="5"]I’ve wondered that too, how much Emma and her family know about his past. (I’ve also wondered whether Emma knows about Milah and why exactly he and Rumpel hate(d?) each other so much.) And for that matter, I’m curious about his past as well. He said his father was a fugitive and abandoned him, but if presumably he did have to have come from some sort of noble family to be a Naval officer, how did that work? I’d love to see more information about that, although I don’t think it’s likely unless it has some relevance to whatever is going on in present-day Storybrooke. Gah, looking forward to next season so much!
Did you guys see?
<--- I changed my icon!!
It’s not the best but once I find a better pic, I’ll replace it again.
EDIT: LOL, just saw everyone’s covered my points on the book in previous posts…. I should really learn to type faster :p
Confirmation is always good 🙂
I’ve wondered that too, how much Emma and her family know about his past. (I’ve also wondered whether Emma knows about Milah and why exactly he and Rumpel hate(d?) each other so much.) And for that matter, I’m curious about his past as well. He said his father was a fugitive and abandoned him, but if presumably he did have to have come from some sort of noble family to be a Naval officer, how did that work? I’d love to see more information about that, although I don’t think it’s likely unless it has some relevance to whatever is going on in present-day Storybrooke. Gah, looking forward to next season so much!
Okay I’m going on my Hornblower knowledge here (so historically who knows if its very accurate, but since we’re talking fiction anyway it prob doesn’t matter). I don’t think you had to be noble to get into the Navy. If you were young enough you could start as a Midshipman (lowest commission) and work your way up the ranks. In the Hornblower series he was the son of a doctor with no connections, but he was well educated. This is how I imagine both Killian and Liam. Liam seems a little bit older so he went to the Navy first and Killian wanted to be like his big brother and prob went into the Navy once his father ran off.
If one is to engage with the primordial forces of darkness, one must expect a little social awkwardness
Going back a page or two because I just got done reading!
I believe the Jolly Roger “set” may have been dismantled just for storage for the season hiatus.
I think there is a good chance we could see Hook and his lady love going off on an adventure to get it back. SOMEONE had a bean to trade for it, so it is still out there! (It would be wonderful to have them set sail to service the PLOT and an escape from everything getting turned into an instant Popsicle by Elsa,… or would that be OOC of the new Elsa?? grinnnnn)
As far as the AU of St Neal goes…the participants have created a very petty, toxic environment. It reeks of morose jealousy, encouraged delusion and graceless resentment. It is ultimately…very sad.
Be glad it has nothing to do with the continuing success of OUAT and our enjoyment of the adventure!
***Always in search of a good flock***
Oh on Hook’s “good” clothes, if it was me, I’d simply assume he was loaded- what with being a well known pirate with a reputation & all 😉
As for his dancing… I could be wrong here, but I do believe that back in the ‘old’ days, pretty much everyone knew how to dance, as that was simply the way people meet the opposite gender- at dances. I mean even Rumple knows how to dance…. or am I projecting headcannon as fact there … (I’m sure we’ve seen Rumple & Belle dance…havent we????)… Oh, Cinderella will work just as well if we havent- she was a slave/maid, yet knew how to dance well enough that a prince didnt know she wasnt ‘royal’ born.
Ok- so I’ve been writing this over the last 1&1/2hrs or so, in between clients (so if it seems a tad disjointed in places, sorry!)…
I also have a Question, that I think is worth diving into, since the thread is on a roll (although I know to topic has been discussed before). There is David’s TL must be fought for quote:
“True love isn’t easy but it must be fought for because once you find it… It can never be replaced”
Now I think we are pretty much ALL in agreement that that it’s not impossible to love again after losing a love, so thats not the point of this question.
My question is given this pretty definitive statement, what does that mean for Regina & Daniel- where they in fact actually TL? Or simply “truly In love”. The same goes for Rumple & Milah, Rumple & Cora, Hook & Milah, Emma & Neal.
I mean in each of the above examples, the love they had can & has been ‘replaced’, so was it actually TL in the 1st place?
- Ie.
- Rumple & Milah~ Milah could never help Rumple over come being a coward, nor being selfish & Rumple by the same token could never help Milah see her family meant more than her desire for adventure & far away places.
- Rumple & Cora~ Cora could never help Rumple lighten the darkest sides of himself- she encouraged it, Rumple could never help Cora quench her thirst for revenge & power.
- Hook & Milah~ Milah could never help Hook bring out the man of honor he was/is- she encourage his pirating life style, Hook couldnt bring out the best in Milah (being there for her son… not sure wht else to say there as we dont really have a lot to go on with her, she was more plot device than anything).
- Regina & Daniel~ Regina could never help Daniel be more than a ‘stable boy’/servant & Daniel could never help Regina accept her mother for what she was & let her go to be happy.
- Emma & Neal~ Emma could never bring out the courage to face his father & stop running from his past, nor the man of high moral standing Bae was & Neal (this one gets tricky, because it’s not so much bringing out- other than the ‘bad girl’ /criminal side of her, as the bad side of Emma that he ultimately solidified with-in her that was the issue) caused Emma major trust issues, self worth doubts, increased issue with loving others/being loved, solidified her walls to almost insurmountable levels & he encouraged her need to ‘run away’ from pain.
Does this mean IF heaven forbid OQ broke up for real (& I simply cant see that happening long term), would that be it, they could never really be that happy again?
I honestly know that ALL our TL couples are the best versions of themselves when together & thats really what kind of defines it for me, so if TL is broken, does that mean that person cant ever be that ‘best version of themselves’ again? & is this why & what makes TL couples so special, they readily have the capacity to transcend the worst parts of themselves, to overcome whatever odds they must type thing?
- Ie.
- Rumple & Belle~ Rumple increases & encourages Belle’s self worth& feeds her desire for adventure; Belle increases & encourages Rumple’s good/light side & feeds his desire to be worthy of love (I’m intentionally keeping them simple since this isnt the Rumbelle thread 😉 ).
- Robin & Regina~ Robin increases & encourages Regina’s deep need to be love, be loved & treasured as herself; Regina (not sure yet as we dont really have a lot of Robin back story yet tbh)
- Killian & Emma~ Killian increases & encourages Emma’s selfworth, trust levels, opening up to love, dropping her walls, he brings out Emma’s ability to face up to what scares her, accept being a hero/ the savior & he allowed Emma to find the one thing she’s been looking for her whole life “Home”; Emma increases & encourages the hero, gentleman, man of honor in Killian, she brings out his ability to love deeply & selflessly, accept he no longer wants to be a ‘pirate’/villain (of sorts) & allowed Killian to find his “family”
It’s pretty much win-win in the above 3 couples- I dont think I need to even touch on Snowing since they are fairly obvious lol
I would think that peasants wouldn’t know the same dances as wealthy people…but heck, what do I know? It’s hard to try to look anything up anyway since we don’t have real dates to work with or anything. Although I think I need to rewatch “Good Form”, or perhaps just all of 3A, lol. It’s lucky that the rest of my family is so far behind on OUAT that we have the entire third season still on the DVR. 😉
As for the True Love thing…I think I had a vague theory, but it all gets befuddled by the fairy dust showing Regina her TL. Because if that was before Robin even met Marian, then either those two (Robin and Marian) weren’t TL or it’s possible to have two TLs/soul mates out there at once. It’s tough to say!
In regard to Killian knowing how to dance – likely he learned it as a naval officer. In 17th-ish century society (in our ‘realm’ anyway!) knowing how to dance was of utmost importance if you were an officer. Knowing how to act in polite and high society was practically as important as knowing how to fight, sail a ship and all those other soldier-y duties. Since the EF realm is somewhat like that society, I would think that’s where he would’ve learned how to become a gentleman, developed his code of honor, and learned the waltz! That’s my headcannon anyway.
In regard to the ‘true love’ concept. This is something MP and I were talking about briefly in chat the other day. I think a main theme of S4 is going to be defining the concept of ‘true love’. We’ve defined ‘hope’, ‘family’, and ‘home’, so I think taking on the concept of love and true love is a natural progression for OUAT.
My own personal opinion regarding ‘true love’…I have a hard time believing in the concept of ‘soul mate’ and ‘one true love’. I think each initial pairing did truly love each other, at the time. I think the OUAT definition of ‘true’ love vs ‘truly’ loving someone will center around that very question – does this person bring out the best in the other? The early pairings Surayya mentioned all indicate no, they did not. Which is why they were doomed in some way or another. Had Daniel not died, would he have been as complex and strong a person as Regina will ultimately need in a true love? I don’t know. Milah fed Hook’s pirate side – and we’ve seen that the pirate, nor the officer are the true Killian. The true Killian is somewhere in the middle, and I don’t believe Milah could have loved that person. Rumple and Milah – ok, she was just brutal to him, so yeah, if she didn’t get on Hook’s ship, I think sooner or later she was out of there, it was just a matter of time.
Robin, however, is unafraid to meet Regina at her most fierce. Belle gives Rumple that unconditional love someone as fragile as the ‘coward’ Rumple needs to gain strength without depending on the Dark One. As we saw in the finale, Hook was able to lose himself in his pirate life after Milah died; but when he thought he lost Emma forever, he realized he could not hide behind that mask anymore, and it compelled him to continue working to find the person he truly wanted to be, and that would be worthy of Emma, even if he could never see her again. Those loves are powerful. They don’t diminish the earlier loves – because each early love taught those in the relationship valuable lessons and greatly shaped who they are now. But true love is going to last, is going to support you, and is going to grow and change and encourage each partner to become the best version of themselves.
@epona_610. I agree. I think peasants had too tough of a life to have time to learn waltzes and such dances. I would think their dances would be more festive and less proper.
@jenna_b. Good point… A naval officer would be expected to be a gentleman and have such skills to interact in polite society. I think you are right with a son of a doctor but that would be a middle class. So hook would still be educated due to his station. I really hope they go into Killian’s background in s4. Sooo curious
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