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December 8, 2014 at 10:26 am in reply to: FAVORITE AND LEAST FAVORITE MOMENTS from this episode 4X10 SHATTERED SIGHT ? #292439
Keb
ParticipantI just liked it as a callback to the 1937 film. I enjoy those campy callbacks a lot (I guess that’s why I’ve liked having the Frozen cast on).
And I don’t see it as a hit on people with disabilities, because they were all being mean to each other. We know that the dwarfs love and accept Dopey as he is when they’re themselves.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
December 8, 2014 at 10:06 am in reply to: Is Anyone Else Confused & Bothered With Rumple's Storyline? #292435Keb
ParticipantI think also we’re meant to see Rumple and Hook through the other character right now. Both of them have been filling in for us the side that’s been mostly absent this season: Rumple pointed out Hook’s dark side when they were playing blackmail games (which Hook started, to be fair), and Hook is desperately trying to bring out Rumple’s good side in time to survive or at least protect Emma.
It’s a fascinating dynamic and I think it would be all the richer if we actually saw any sign that Hook still has a dark side beyond Rumple’s influence or any sign that Rumple still has a good side at all. But those scenes are hitting the cutting room floor or being hidden as tiny one-note bits (Rumple bringing Belle flowers, Hook telling David at the ice wall that what he’d do is trap everyone and then kill them one by one). What we’re actually being shown is Wooby Adorable Pirate vs Nasty Lying Villain, so we have to grasp at the gold straws like Anna to work out anything that makes sense.
Still, the idea of looking at Rumple through Hook and vice versa DOES have rich possibilities for understanding the characters better. I think right now they are both seeing an uncomfortable reflection of themselves in their longstanding enemy, though we’re hearing more of it from Hook. Hook seems to recognize that at least some of what Rumple’s doing, he’s done similarly–like when he condemned Eric by making BB walk the plank so he could get his ship. And I think Rumple is treating his puppet with slightly more compassion than we saw the last few times he tried to kill Hook (veeeeeeeeeery slightly, but I see it). Like, when Hook asks that Rumple spare Emma & Storybrooke…he actually does give Hook a half-reassurance. He gives Hook a chance to say his goodbyes. It’s not exactly kindness but he’s not being as cruel as he could be (and might even feel justified in being given their history).
Both of them recognize that while Rumple’s enjoying the fact that he gets to have some vengeance mixed in with his purpose, he’s not just toying with and killing Hook for fun–he’s got a goal (freedom from that dagger) that makes sense to both of them. (That goal at least makes sense…it’s the “world domination,” which I’m putting in scare quotes because I’m holding out hope there’s a better explanation, that doesn’t.) I think that recognition is why Hook’s pleas to Rumple’s better half have nothing to do with himself. He knows he’d do the same thing if he were in Rumple’s place.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
December 8, 2014 at 9:22 am in reply to: Is Anyone Else Confused & Bothered With Rumple's Storyline? #292431Keb
ParticipantI agree…and I had a whole bunch written here and lost it.
But basically, his taking that potion was the most OOC thing to ever happen in this show, and that’s including everything that happened in Quiet Minds (which was pretty OOC for both Neal & Rumple). His only investment in Emma’s future was her promise that Bae forgives him…and a man who spent centuries changing things so that he could get to Bae in the first place would trust himself to find a way to fix everything else.
Meanwhile, S4 Rumple’s compassionate side has been almost entirely invisible. We saw it in 401 and then it vanished into cut-scene world. We have zero reason to root for him because his motives (beyond Ultimate Power and the more understandable freedom from the dagger) are not even hinted at–it took four episodes before his desire for the hat made one bit of sense. They’ve done this with Rumple before–in S1, it took a long time before we could see any of his plans, but then we were right there with Emma trying to untangle whose side he was on, and it felt consistent even then.
Now it doesn’t feel consistent at all; even at the height of his powers, Rumple never wanted world domination in FTL. He was content to have his lonely little castle and make his deals and spin his straw–he had power and wealth and a goal, and he could leave the rest of the world alone as long as they weren’t pestering him or furthering his way to his son. What made us love him is that underneath, he just wanted love and his family. What made it possible to forgive him time and again was that he almost always gave his victims a choice, even when he knew what choice they’d make, and when he didn’t–it was clear that his lashing out was due to his own self-loathing. It all came back to his heart and his son.
Now, the few scenes where we see him loving his wife and grandson are cut, and instead we get shown how he’s willing to hurt the adorable puppy pirate and his sweet (but prickly) girlfriend…to…do what? We aren’t being reminded of how much Zelena hurt him, so even his desire to be free of the dagger (which makes sense in context of the series as a whole, but not S4) falls flat. We aren’t seeing how he could have a better life outside of Storybrooke, so his desire to leave with Belle & Henry (even to escape DQ’s curse, which is now no longer a threat) doesn’t make sense. Maybe nobody likes him, but they like his wife and grandson and the rulers of the town named their son after his son. He has a chance to be comfortable and happy there with Belle…and he doesn’t want that why?
I think it’s hard for the creators to realize just how unsympathetic they’ve made Rumple this season. In their heads, they’ve got all the backstory AND all the scenes they’ve written, filmed, and cut only at the last minute. In their heads, Rumple shows love for Belle (who appreciates it) by encouraging her to pursue her librarian career. In their heads, Rumple spends time talking to Henry about memories and pain. These aren’t just headcanons–they published these scenes after they were nearly included in the episodes. But if you don’t watch anything but what airs, there’s almost NO compassion or love being shown from Rumple.
His horrified reaction at Hook’s accusation that he’d let Henry be condemned with the rest of the town doesn’t make sense because all we got of his relationship with his grandson is two short scenes–operation mongoose and the furniture polish. There’s no love shown there and it doesn’t establish a relationship that overcomes what he’s willing to do to Henry’s family in the same scene. It matches my headcanon of how he’s always felt about Henry, but we’re not seeing it in the show and especially not in this arc where it seems to matter.
(On the note of cut scenes, aside from the fact that the majority they’ve shown us have been about half of Belle’s screen time hitting the cutting room floor, we’re not seeing Belle’s motivations either–or some of Hook’s that I think may become important soon. Why is Belle so devoted to him? Who knows! But I’m quite sure they cut a bit where she gives him the dagger in 409 because Hook’s assertion that Belle truly loves Rumple seems to come from that action…all we get is a hug. What? And then he’s got a dagger in front of her and it doesn’t make sense. Are they so desperate to cut all of Emilie’s scenes?)
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantI’m quite expecting to be shattered emotionally with whatever they do next week. A&E are VERY good at wrenching cliffhangery finales, and now that they’re intentionally writing two a season…
3A’s was pure pain.
I think we’ll get a bit of happiness for our Frozen cast as we say farewell (I am going to miss Kristoff’s bickering SO much), but I’m expecting that fans for Rumbelle, CS, and OQ are all going to be in tears of either pain or rage in the last 5 minutes of the episode.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantWell, given that we’re bouncing around in time, it may be that we’re seeing her at the height of her powers instead of somewhat defeated as we saw her in S1.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantWell, you heard his plan for compensating for Storybrooke’s destruction: He was going to sell it as he saved her and Henry cuz that’s all he could do, and be a hero to them. He’s GOOD with words and persuasion. He’s trusting in that, I think, to keep her going along with his scheme, whatever the heck it is.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantBelle’s in it. So. I’m going to allow that to make me happy right now.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
Keb
ParticipantThe motivation IS a mystery and I hope they at least give us a taste of it next week…if not explain it as they unravel his plan enough that the poor Hookers don’t spend the entire hiatus dreading poor Hook’s imminent demise.
I’m not sure what they’re going to do with this finale. I will say the finales are always the most challenging to timeline, though–they cram a LOT into them, and as they did tonight, bounce around a lot more in time.
The stars thing at least explains why Hook’s still breathing and Rumple didn’t race out of town before the curse came. He needs his magic to keep his magic.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
December 7, 2014 at 9:25 pm in reply to: FAVORITE AND LEAST FAVORITE MOMENTS from this episode 4X10 SHATTERED SIGHT ? #292347Keb
ParticipantAlso, all the applause to the casting department (and the young actors) for once again making me blink in disbelief about two different people playing the character–there was a moment when Young Emma’s expression was just SO Emma I had no trouble believing that it was a continuous character, even only two years before the Emma we see stealing a stolen car.
Keeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
December 7, 2014 at 9:12 pm in reply to: FAVORITE AND LEAST FAVORITE MOMENTS from this episode 4X10 SHATTERED SIGHT ? #292337Keb
ParticipantFavorites:
–The battle in the jail
–The dwarf trying to get Dopey to talk
–The snow falling and breaking the spell
–Helpful timeline year guides (first guess: DQ found out that Emma had a baby in prison and decided to wait in Storybrooke…would be fascinating if Pinocchio got involved in that, and that’s my new headcanon)
–DQ managing to be creepy and still loveable all at once. Cleverly done.
–The star alignment thing explaining why Rumple’s time scale felt off–why he’s both rushing and hesitating at the same time. Works for me.Least favorites:
–Not NEARLY enough Henry.
–Hardly any Belle at all
–I wanted to see more Hook trying to catch Henry scenes tooKeeper of Belle's Gold magic, sand dollar, cloaks, purple FTL outfit, spell scroll, library key, copy of Romeo and Juliet, and cry-muffling pillow, Rumple's doll, overcoat, and strength, and The Timeline. My spreadsheet: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6r8CySCCWd9R0RUNm4xR3RhMEU/view?usp=sharing
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