[kfchimera]

She wanted to die as Regina, but it is much harder to live without tapping into the Evil Queen’s bag of tricks. I am waiting for her to basically try to escape NL with Henry, while leaving the others behind. I’m not sure she’ll actively set that up–but I could see her taking advantage of the situation to do just that.

[kfchimera]

Milah is more plot device than character but there is interesting space to fashion a character there if they want, one who isn’t just a scape goat for Rumpel or Hook’s actions, but a complicated character in her own right (a mix of harassed Young Cora, bravery-seeking Belle, misguided mothering like Regina and old Cora, sacrificing Snow).

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

Cora was not a regular character, let alone one of the main stars, plus Henry Sr. was sacrificed early in the series as a plot point long before Cora became even a recurring guest star.

Rumple on the other hand, is one of the main stars, not just a regular. Grumpy is a recurring character, and while I’ll grant you Red was a regular in season 2, the plot shifted so she wasn’t given much to do. That’s possible for Belle too, but I see her more similar to Charming’s role. Snow is more the focus than Charming, but they try to find stuff for him to do. Same with Belle.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

Lando switches sides to help save the day after tricking them, he agrees to go on a search to find Han, just like Hook is now assisting with the search to find Henry. Either way though, Lando and Han both end up as heroes.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

I agree with RumplesGirl–there’s a huge difference between Moe’s actions and Hook’s actions, since the intent, method and results are all different. In English/American concepts of criminal justice, intent and results both matter. That’s why attempted murder usually gets a lesser sentence than murder, and there’s few actions that are considered criminal regardless of your intent (only example I can recall off hand easily is statutory rape). Why you do what you do matters almost as much as what you do, and in some cases, what happens because of what you did.

Belle was not willing to forgive her own father for attempting to erase her memories–so you might think there would be no way she would easily forgive Hook. Except of course, the only way she’d remember the circumstances of what she lost would be if she got the memories back. So in a way, she might have been more upset about the attempt by her own father (because how could her father have so little love and respect for her as to try that!), than the actual loss caused by Hook. I do look forward to seeing if they will have Belle reassess Hook’s “rottenness” at some point.

I’ve seen someone compare Hook’s actions in the finale to Han Solo–but to me, it was more a Lando Calrissian move. Hook helped set the fail-safe thing in motion, by helping GOAT, then turning on them, and stealing away with the last bean, after tricking the “heroes”. So Hook’s return and offer of aid is a bit tainted by that to me. Without getting into details from Empire Strikes Back, the point is, a short betrayal like that is something the audience can forgive so long as no lasting harm is done to the heroes. The results, the fact that there is no lasting harm, is what keeps us from hating the character, regardless if the character had some shifty intentions at an earlier point in the story.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

@Surayya wrote:

All the stories have similarities & differences- none are ever ‘by the book’ out right original versions,

Oh, I agree, some will be a bigger leap than others to pull off, but with the right scenario, just about anything could work out. I used the phrase by the book to mean Shang’s personality was Mr. Law and Order. I think you understood that, but just in case you didn’t, since you’re using the same phrase but in a different way.
It’s why I’m not “for” or “against” even ships we’ve seen a bit of, as things can change as storylines change and characters grow. Since they do have the True Love concept in the show, I feel safe (but maybe too safe that there’s not much to worry about) for Rumbelle and Snowing to never change and have the constancy of fairytale couples. Yet until we see a similar magical moment for another pair of characters, it is hard for me to put too much in the story unfolding in my head, lest the writers push a few walls around and the maze we’re being led through changes completely. Until the story ends, it is hard for me to know what was foreshadowing and what was a red herring.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

I agree with Keb. Emotionally, Hook & Milah had a bond. Enough of a bond that he wanted to make a family with Bae. From what we’ve seen, that ended up more of a “what could have been” then a true step-father/son connection between Bae and Hook. Although, we don’t know if we know the full story yet.

Somehow this reminds me of something from the movie Clueless. This movie is in turn based on Jane Austen’s novel Emma. There is an odd family relationship that happens. Cher (the “Emma” character) has a step-brother named Josh. Josh’s mother married Cher’s dad, but they divorced pretty quickly. We are told that Cher and Josh never really shared a daily routine as brother and sister, but somehow, Josh had a connection with her dad that lasted even after the divorce. Her father says “You divorce wives, not children”.
So even though Cher resents Josh and doesn’t consider him more than a “former” step-brother, her father still considers him his step-son, despite the very brief marriage. If you haven’t seen it, I’ll spoiler the rest, plus it is a little off-topic from Hook and Bae’s relationship. Josh and Cher end up dating. In the original novel, the relationship is different because Emma falls for her older sister's husband's brother (her brother-in-law), but he was looking out for her more like an Uncle or older brother. Either way, there's no blood relation there, but to different audiences the already existing close family connection sometimes draws criticism. I felt that Hook might have wanted to be a step-dad to Bae, and like Cher’s dad in the movie, feels this still long after the connecting relationship is over. Unlike that movie though, Bae has not been shown to feel the same.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

@Surayya wrote:

Well actually I pointed out a couple of similarities ‘In the Story’

Yes they both have fathers, who fought in wars. They both had issues with their fathers. Then there are differences. Shang respected his father, and worried about living up to his expectations. Neal didn’t respect his father and was abandoned by him. Shang lived by the book, Neal probably stole the book. Shang was reserved with his emotions and Neal …let’s just say on this thread, gets called whiny. My point about Hookriel existing prior to the show and prior to Hook appearing in Once is to show that some fan thought of combining those two without the incentive of removing a character to promote a different ship. On the surface of it, which is the only way to judge a crack pairing because of course, no one has seen the interactions, Neal/Mulan really feels more like something to bolster CS than something anyone would be interested in seeing absent CS. This is the CS thread of course, so that’s a perfectly fine reason for you to say you’d prefer it--but we’ll have to agree to disagree about whether there’s any more appeal to the concept than clearing the deck for CS. Hook probably appreciates a cleared deck, but he can work with clutter as he’s a pirate after all. 😆

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

Shang doesn’t have a lot in common with Bae. Other than dark hair and eyes, I guess, but Bae is not a soldier as Shang was. If they’re going for a mash up, I guess they could pull something with MAP having to fight the Ogres, and Mulan is the general, and Bae the recruit, but I’m pretty doubtful. I won’t say it couldn’t happen, but it doesn’t sound as nifty to me as getting a better understanding of the Milah situation/closure, or Hookriel (since that was around before the show, and the season started, since there’s the shared love of the sea for pirates & mermaids) or the snarkfest that could be seeing Regina on the prowl again like with Graham.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

[kfchimera]

I agree with RG about Hook’s drawing of Milah. Unless we’re supposed to assume the same artist drew both pictures, because it is a picture not a photo.

That might be important, since photos can be mass produced and duplicated much more easily than a hand drawing perhaps. If that is the Lost Ones only copy of the drawing, it might make sense to have someone dedicated to guarding it so it does not become tattered/lost/ruined. Outside of the show, as RumplesGirl said, the viewer needed to see the picture, but the plot required that Hook not know about Henry (or at least, that the viewer should think so). So Felix didn’t have it with him, and only compared later on.

We don’t know PP only works at night-he may only work in the dark, which is not the same thing (nice dark cave in the big mountain, maybe?). We’re assuming a lot of things right now, but we should be careful with not taking those things as facts when we don’t know. It could turn out still that the HO is separate entirely from PP, but just considered SB small issue compared to using Henry in some way to elimiate PP. Or, yes, it could be that the HO is controlling/using PP. Or that Pan IS the HO. For all we know–GOAT are working for some 4th party, who is using the HO to get to Pan for their own agenda. That’s too convoluted to be an-all-at-once reveal, but if it is something revealed layer by layer, it could work too.

“If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -- Lewis Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland & Through the Looking-Glass

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