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MysteryKat25Participant
@TheGoldenKey wrote:
Agree with both RumplesGirl and Slurpeez. Bae is the story. He’s the man we’ve all been waiting for. No way would they kill him off. He is Henry, Emma & Rumple’s happy ending! 😀
I will agree on two counts and somewhat argue/play Devil’s Advocate on the third:
1) Having him in Henry’s life is a good thing and will help him ultimately be happy I’m sure (he just wants his family back, I get it, but as his family has proven time and time again they are a very dysfunctional bunch. Not all of them get along, but on one point they can agree: they all love Henry)
2) Bae (along with Belle) are Rumple’s happy ending. He’s the reason Rumple put all of this in motion. Clearly there’s no arguing this.
3) The Emma thing…and no, for once I’m not arguing for any other ships (for either of them even though I have a few ideas). Emma is one tough cookie and can technically stand on her own (I’d like her to find love with whoever, even if the writers kill me with the wrong pairing for the 2nd time (still haven’t forgiven you Lost people, grr). BUT, nothing anywhere (so far) says that NealFire Pan has to absolutely be Emma’s happy ending. They have a lot of issues to work out. They clearly need to find a way to at least get along for Henry’s sake. And yes, in FTL first loves are usually true loves, etc etc. However, Emma is a NEW character and she grew up in OUR world where sometimes, that just doesn’t work out. If you can find a way to make peace with each other when a kid is involved and be there for him then great! Doesn’t mean they absolutely HAVE to be endgame (I feel that the fandom is pretty divided about this actually – their perceived “meant to be” vs please have something more original and less exactly like in FTL because they’re not in FTL, they haven’t spent most of their lives there).
If Henry is ever proven to be a product of true love (magically speaking: like Snowing & RumBelle and Aurora / Phillip have been proven in magical terms – curses being broken), then that’ll settle that. Until then, Emma is and always has been a NEW character with no pre-determined definite guy. They’ve always said they were throwing possible love interests her way and that she’s got a lot to work through etc. Also we’re a long way from endgame regardless.
Would it be sweet that the cause of the curse and the savior of it got together? Sure. Does it need to happen “just because they have a kid and it would be his happy ending”? No. Henry is gonna have to grow up sometime and just be grateful everybody in his family loves him even when they hate each other. That would be a real world fairy tale for some kids and our FTL characters are now in the real world. Sometimes settling for ok IS a happy ending, especially when the alternative is that your adoptive mom keeps trying to kill everybody else you love.
Looking back to last season when they set up the possibility of WoodenSwan it seemed sweet at first too: 2 FTL kids, abandoned in the real world, find each other again someday, he helps her believe in the curse and save everyone they love. That was before we found out that August royally screwed up…but it was still a sweet setup.
As was Gremma (oh how I miss you) in that their kiss showed Emma was willing to open her heart again, it gave him his memories back, etc, etc. Then you had the intense chemistry and strong belief from MadSwan because Jefferson too knew who he was & believed in Emma and her abilities when she herself did not. The list goes on and on.
Emma has been paired with just about everybody on this show and nothing has stuck. Is it probably endgame, sadly yes…but for right now I still enjoy the fact that we can see potential for Emma with more than one guy (yes some of us can see BOTH CaptainSwan and SwanFire, even if we have a preferance), and the fact that we don’t know going into it that it absolutely HAS to be so-and-so. All the other pairings you know have to eventually get together so there’s no real drama, no major shakeups, the true loves are the same as the ones we expect from all our Disney favorites.
With Emma there’s a chance for *gasp* shipping wars. As much as I hate it (especially since I do see potential in a lot of things – though I do defend the one most don’t only because I feel attacked for liking it), it means that we are all invested in the show. We care about the characters, we defend those we love, we see things through different filters and we look for clues pointing to why it should be one or the other and what makes sense to us. It gives us something to fight for. Even the canon True Love couples have their fans as well as those who hate them. To each their own.
For some it may be that they loved each other before (before they both changed drastically I might add) and that they have a kid and therefore it should be about Henry’s happy ending. And who knows, perhaps the show really is about Henry finding Emma, saving his world and bringing his family back together. I just hate the idea that toward the end of season two we’re defining endgame absolutes that haven’t been proven to us yet. If Henry is proven the product of true love then fine, it’ll get predictable like all the other pairings, and it’s just the journey. I’m ok with that. I like the journey so far, wherever it may go.
Alllll that said I actually am happy that Neal ended up being Bae for the sole reason that it does create all of these other possibilities, makes this whole big family crazier, and that Henry will be able to have all of these people in his life because his dad is from FTL too and not just some random outsider who won’t want to stay wherever they end up.
Let’s take things one step at a time and just enjoy whatever parts we enjoy and relish in the fact that Neal is Bae for awhile, without tacking on absolutes. Just my 2 cents.
PS: Sorry to anybody I upset, I’m just a firm believer in waiting til we see proof (I don’t take dead bodies from Cora’s lips seriously til we see them *cough* Lancelot *cough* and I don’t trust in absolute true loves unless it breaks a curse). Not trying to be mean-spirited or direct hatred at a ship I actually do like – at times (contrary to popular belief). I just tend to be more vocal about one over the other because there are more defenders of SwanFire than there are of CaptainSwan, at least around here.
My main desire is actually for a less predictable path when we haven’t had to rule that out yet. Anything that is shown to us I’ll gladly take into consideration and revise my thinking on in the future. Here’s hoping I don’t resent endgame *curse you Lost* (in other words, whoever ends up with whoever – for any pairing on the show – better earn it. The show needs to MAKE me see it and GIVE ME REASONS it makes sense. I can play Devil’s Advocate all day, just give me something to work with definitive and don’t rule anything out until then – that’s my motto. All’s fair game until it isn’t.)
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@HappyEndings wrote:
You know what is weird remember when Ruth told David that the grain merchant daughter is available for marriage and since Cora is a Miller’s daughter I wonder if this just a parallel of maybe something else ❓
I’ve been questioning the grain merchant’s daughter comment as well. I keep running into the young Cora (once we found out for sure it wasn’t possibly Regina) and she was obviously not with Charming who would have been young at the time so kept hitting a brick wall.
The parallel story idea makes much more sense! I’m hoping that it’s addressed at some point unless it was just intentionally vague and only there to show that Charming didn’t want to marry for anything but love and eventually had to (almost) make the sacrifice. I keep feeling like it’s not a throwaway though.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
The flashback before the end of the season = Hook’s story after Milah dies as the season finale? Maybe even before he met Milah and his time in Neverland.
“What can you tell us about what’s coming up towards the end of the season?” “Episodes.” Oh Adam…
The one new character helping out another story = Robin Hood? in 19?
I’ll take either of the Hook timelines. He clearly had a mind to go to Neverland to get the time he needed to find a way to get revenge which begs the following questions:
Was he there at some point in the past?
Was Milah ever there with him?
Did he only learn of Neverland after Milah’s death / the element of “time” became important?
If so who told him he should go there? Smee?
While he was in Neverland, what happened? Who were his friends? His enemies?(Ok, that last one is definitely the point of doing the episodes to begin with but…inquiring minds want to know!)
Personally it sounded like he knew what kind of place it was so he had to have heard it somewhere and/or been there before in which case why leave?
Also: it would interesting if he were once there as a child…a lost boy if you will (would explain his sympathy for them in Tallahassee) and then perhaps went back ONLY after Milah’s death…when he was filled with rage and revenge, possibly on NealFire Pan who is the son of the one he loves as well as the one he hates leading to an epic Hook vs Peter Neverland storyline!
I am also intrigued by the idea of Robin Hood (though I gotta say, I love the fox version so whoever plays him has a lot to live up to). Will be interesting to see where RH fits into everything if / when they do bring him in. Looking forward to it.
I know some hate when the cast gets more bloated but a) the Neverland characters don’t count in this because I firmly believe if they had the rights last year they would have been there sooner (the creators love Peter Pan and we saw a Tink lawn ornament in the pilot for crying out loud! yay for Disney copyrights!) and b) It’s not Snow White, it’s Once Upon A Time and I love seeing other classic characters be brought to life (as long as they’re relevant to the plot) so bring on Robin Hood!
PS: Am I the only one who squealed at the announcement of the last two titles for the season? So excited for the May episodes!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@ItachiIshtar wrote:
@TheGoldenKey wrote:
Hey, Hook could easily turn out as Peter Pan and blow the whole Bae/Neal/Peter Pan theory right out of the water. Wouldn’t that be the redeeming quality that makes Emma openly warm up to him?
Don’t want to see it happen because I’ve been theorizing about it being Bae for over a year now. But, one never knows and has to be open to some things.
But Hook is already a grown up before he goes to Neverland. Peter Pan is supposed to be about a teenager. He’s the boy who NEVER grew up, which is a big reason why I am against Bae being Peter. If Bae is Peter, that would mean Peter grew up. You could argue that the movie “Hook” got away with making Peter grow up, but I still wouldn’t be a fan of the idea.
Understandable (although I loved the movie “Hook”) but given how these writers like to turn stories on their ears (hello Jacqueline), I wouldn’t put it past them to have Peter grow up. It would also lead to the possibility that Hook at one point befriended Bae (whether he knew who he was or not) and perhaps his original revenge plan on the crocodile was to steal the love of the son he let go of. Wouldn’t put it past him and hey, it almost worked for Dustin Hoffman, right?
The Hook is Peter theory is interesting as well. I’m thinking it has to be one or the other and that would certainly be an interesting twist but I’m still leaning more toward NealFire Pan.
I am pretty positive that Bae ran off to Neverland, changed his name to Peter (Rumple was looking for someone with a unique name, I’d change it too), and then somehow got here and changed his name again so as to once again lose the trail. Bae would have had to grow up at some point and the lost boys don’t normally grow up either so…unless he grew up, then spent time in Neverland like Hook did as an adult and was a pirate on his ship (which would be an interesting twist), he’s gotta be one or the other and the connections pointing to Peter make sense so far.
If I had my choice of Bae stories…he’d have somehow saved Morraine and still be that sweet boy somewhere else and far away from being Neal / involved with Emma / Henry’s father (way too predictable in my opinion and therefore probably endgame) but that’s clearly not an option.
I really liked Bae and Morraine. Given that we saw her and heard her name many times I’m kinda hoping she’s more like his Wendy in the sense that in some versions Peter finally comes to his senses about Wendy but not until she’s older (or in this case probably long gone given the passing of time unless she somehow escaped to Neverland as well – which would also be an awesome twist) and then he ends up with her granddaughter whose name was Moira which is what Morraine reminds me of.
Now that I think about it, it could totally be a play on words as well (probably a stretch): connecting “more RAIN” and “WINDY.” I shall dub Peter & Wendy FORECAST if this is the case.
It also wouldn’t surprise me if Tamara turned out to be Tinkerbell for the sole reason that she’s engaged to Neal right now. Tink is usually in love with Peter but doesn’t get him in the end (that should appease the SwanFire fans that I just upset)
Either way I am more than ready for more Hook storylines, preferably ones that don’t involve him being tossed to the floor and used by absolutely everybody. Hopefully we’ll finally get to see more of the sweet, charming, fun side we saw in Tallahassee. He seemed to genuinely have felt sympathy for the lost boys so I’d like to see that backstory and see how much of that was real as well as seeing a new twist on his story. I’ve been anxious for Neverland since the character was announced.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@TheGoldenKey wrote:
@RumplesGirl wrote:
@TheGoldenKey wrote:
Hey, Hook could easily turn out as Peter Pan and blow the whole Bae/Neal/Peter Pan theory right out of the water. Wouldn’t that be the redeeming quality that makes Emma openly warm up to him?
Don’t want to see it happen because I’ve been theorizing about it being Bae for over a year now. But, one never knows and has to be open to some things.
If he’s not NealFire Pan then I question every theory I’ve ever had cause I’m a staunch believer. And Adam already blew the Blue Fairy Puppet Master theory at least partway out of the water by telling us she didn’t have her memories in SB during the cursed years.
If Hook is also Pan this is my predicted reaction: O_____________________OI hear you! LOL! So many clues leading up to Bae/Neal/Pan. But one never really knows until we actually see it 😉 Hey, what’s a ship for the OUAT Trio as I like to call him. NeFiPan? Almost sounds like a Tai dish. 😆
I think NealFire Pan or NealFirePan are the main ones being used right now. I’ll be shocked if he’s not all 3.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantGreat point TheGoldenKey. The height thing was bothering me too but that would make perfect sense. Of course IMDB decides to not have heights listed for the two actors I need to know the height of but I think it’s pretty obvious that there’s a big difference. I love your theory that it’s somebody else entirely who is just enjoying Cora’s flirtation and it’s probably just the brother or something. Will be interesting to see how she reacts if that’s the case. We shall see!
The only good thing about changing clocks and losing an hour today? OUAT is an hour closer to airing!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@ItachiIshtar wrote:
Granny and Archie aren’t even in the episode, according the press release, so they’re really trying to hide the obvious.
Well that’s some consolation then. It would be cruel to pretend Archie died and then a few episodes later actually kill him off. That’s twice now they’ve faked us out on his death, we don’t need two in one season!
However it narrows down the possibilities and I am definitely still concerned about a couple other of our favorites, so hopefully it’s just a lot of misdirect and Cora will end up being the one just like we thought originally.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@myril wrote:
THR: How does she move her way up the ladder?
McGowan: Rumple plays a big part in that. He shows her how to get ahead. You have to watch the episode to see. It’s not Hollywood; it’s Once Upon a Time, so it’s a little more layered(emphasis added)
I love Rose McGowan just for saying things like that. 😎Agreed. What an awesome quote! She seems very down to earth in this interview. Can’t wait to see her back on TV this Sunday (I love Charmed).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI admit – I don’t usually get too emotional about the show (as much as I absolutely LOVE it) so it takes an extraordinary moment to actually choke me up instead of just finding it to be a moving scene.
After watching this sneak peak…just give Robert all the awards in the world right now. Seriously. The man is amazing and I can’t imagine anybody else making us feel this much for Rumple. Absolute Perfection.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantAnything said by an actor I take with a grain of salt because they’re only told so much. I do remember what Red192 mentioned about the creators wanting to explore the idea of what happens when you’ve lost your true love but they haven’t said anything about it being impossible and we know of very few cases on the show that they’ve actually called or we’ve seen magical evidence of true love.
I would include in these: Snowing (wakes from sleeping curses), RumBelle (Dark One curse), and Aurora & Phillip (wakes from sleeping curse – what is their shipper name??). These have been proven through magical means.
I made a point to not include any that have not been shown to us as definitive true love. That includes Ruby & Peter, Regina & Daniel (it clearly affected her, could have been, but I don’t remember any proof other than her want of revenge which leads to…), Hook & Milah (again, centuries of wanting revenge, has the tattoo, and yes Rumple suggested it was “twue luv” when Hook protected Milah by not saying she was alive and Milah tried to protect him but no magical proof).
So I hold out hope that those still living who have lost their exes to death are not lost souls forever. The show has shown what true love is capable of and it’s positive stuff. For the time being I hold the others as screwups and if they can manage to change their ways they will hopefully find true love. (This would include Red, Regina, and Hook).
I’m sure I’m leaving a lot of people out but things have definitely been hinted at or seen that some of these people have moved on or tried to move on and just haven’t had much luck (*cough* Red *cough*) and the writers are always saying they’re interested to see IF some of these people can turn their lives around and maybe find love again.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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