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Found some random cool stuff as I was looking up various things so wanted to share!
Swans – Swans usually mate for life, though ‘divorce’ does sometimes occur, particularly following nesting failure.
Pegasus – Pegasus was sired by Poseidon (who is “the God of the Sea”)
So it’s interesting that Pegasus was used for how Hook initially got to Neverland because not only is it a flying horse, but it’s roots come from the sea which, as we know, is a large pirate of our wonderful captain! (It’s also something that relates very much to Emma as she is often shown with unnecessary items nearby like ship paintings, ship helms, model ships etc and the castle she was born in is surrounded by water. She also likes to live in places that have water nearby, as that was her one question with regards to going to Tallahassee – “Is it near a beach?” Ironically it apparently ISN’T near a beach, unless you consider “near” to equal “about an hour if not more” which doesn’t quite sound like what she had in mind to me.
Emma is drawn to the sea as much as our captain is, even if she has her feet on land most of the time. It makes for a beautiful compromise, don’t you think? Be near it, have occasional adventures on the ship, but have roots and a home to go back to, surrounded by people who love you. After all, Hook was once in the navy but he likely had a home somewhere before the ship became his home after turning pirate. (I can’t wait til we learn more about his pre-navy days! I hope we get something earlier than that even though I loved Good Form. Young!Killian FEELS!)
Since most of the characters on the show are looking for love & happiness & family, I don’t get the argument that he wouldn’t be happy sticking close to shore if it meant being loved. He’s been on his ship for ages, much of it spent practically alone, and wants family and to be a part of something way more than he wants to sail around. It’s his forte, it’s what he’s good at, but there’s no way he abandons someone because he can’t sail 24/7. He’s been at sea for so long but he seems to like his time on shore as well (he used to stop in taverns, he spent a lot of time in the jungle as well as on his ship in NL, he was fine wandering around town and now he’s coming back and being praised by the heroes for helping I’m sure. He came back to help save the town when he had no reason to other than what Emma said, and he KNOWS that Emma is not gonna run off with him and leave her family behind. Yet he still loves her and is sticking by her. Yeah he’s totally gonna throw a fit if they don’t run off and play pirates together. Cause you know his ENTIRE ARC this season hasn’t been about him becoming the better version of himself and the man he used to be before he turned pirate. Nope. Not at all *eye roll wouldn’t begin to cover this so insert whatever you wish*
I also don’t see Emma saying they can’t go for a ride sometimes and put those skills to good use. She likes being near water and I’m sure Henry would love it too. They can have grand day trips and still come home most of the time, sometimes inviting the extended family as well. Plus he’ll have those skills regardless which could come in handy if they ever needed them again. It’s a beautiful compromise (which is basically what relationships are anyway, right?)
I also found the swan stuff interesting because Emma is the product of true love and is supposed to be drawn to it even more than most and the idea that swans love and love deeply to the point that they “usually” mate for life except in extreme cases like nesting failure, I found it even more interesting. She’s taken a LONG time and understandably so, to move on from her first love because she DOES love deeply and it’s taken until now to see someone get to her to the degree that Hook has. She’s starting to realize that even though she thought her first love was the one, that maybe that’s not the case. Swans may mate for life the majority of the time, but under extreme circumstances, which hers were, they sometimes find love elsewhere. Obviously Swan is just the name of her foster family and she’s not a real swan, but I like the symbolism. (It also goes as a nod to the Swan Princess and the Ugly Duckling – it’s a perfect name for her all around on many levels, but Emma is Emma).
I love the symbolism of the Phoenix as well since that’s where Emma was jailed and it was her lowest point and she came back from it. She’s overcome so much and is a stronger person today than she was back then and her life wouldn’t be the way it is now without that. As Grumpy says “I need my pain. It’s what makes me who I am” and that’s true of EVERYONE – our experiences shape us and we evolve over time based on them. Emma was the one who actually did TIME in Phoenix for the theft of the watches and this was where her struggle and fight and lowest points were (namely giving birth to Henry while shackled to a bed and not even being able to let herself hold him because the idea of losing him would be too much). So she most definitely “rose from the ashes” in Phoenix and left, still hoping things would be the way she thought they were supposed to, but slowly and surely becoming the awesome woman we know today.
If Emma hadn’t experienced that, she could still be a thief, or her crimes could have escalated, or something entirely different could have happened and she’d never have become a bounty hunter or a sheriff or come to SB or found her family. Take any of that away, and the Emma that we know and love now isn’t the same person. It doesn’t mean she’d have been bad and we wouldn’t have liked her. It just means that the one we have today was shaped by certain huge moments in her life that she has overcome and fought back from those (specifically with a jail in Phoenix being a catalyst) to become who she is today – a woman who is so many wonderful things and is strong and independent and respected and tough and is loved by Killian Jones for everything about her.
It’s so interesting to see where different things might have come from or what additional meanings they might have. I feel like our Swan has gone from the ashes of the Phoenix to the heights of the Pegasus as it looks like even without the help of a Pegasus sail like last time, they are flying the Jolly Roger home to Storybrooke.
It’s literally a flying ship – representing both the heights of the clouds and the depths of the water, and the journey of a girl who was at her lowest of lows is now at her highest of highs, having finally realized how loved she is and going home and rescuing her son from NL. That high won’t last until we actually save Henry which hopefully doesn’t take TOO long, but *right this second* she IS at a high point, and a big part of that is Hook who has been by her side and “truly helpful” during this journey: making sure she knows she’s loved ON TOP OF all the other stuff that was equally, if not more so, important.
Our ship sails (and flies) itself guys! (Sometimes even literally)
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Thanks! I figured I’d have to dive back in to figuring out my paint.net program. This looks like it should be loads easier! I could have some fun with this….now to narrow down ideas!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
If it is connected to Charming’s side, there’s a slight Oz connection to the name Ruth. A woman by the name of Ruth Plumly Thompson continued to write Oz books after the death of L. Frank Baum.
From what I’ve been able to find, many of her books still credited L. Frank Baum so some titles in some locations come up with both names. I’m a bit unclear as to all of this and it could be a stretch, but we did have Whale as a nod to Frankenstein so…anything is possible.
I really want to know what Charming’s father’s name is though. Ruth, David, and James are all Biblical names but I feel like there’s more of a connection to something else and we didn’t get hardly anything on his dad other than that they gave up James to King George. Literally the only things we know is that “true love follows this ring” that Ruth passed down to David who found TL with Snow, and that a gypsy made Ruth’s special necklace that can predict the gender of a future child. Where did she get all these things? How does it all tie in? (Of course gypsy makes one think of Esmerelda but the only person we’ve seen matching that description was killed rather quickly by Regina during her magic training days). So where does the dad fit in?
It wouldn’t surprise me if she is somehow related to Henry though (since everyone seems to be these days!). I agree that we need more on Charming’s side but it’s definitely possible it could be from Snow’s as well. I completely forgot we had another slippers reference. Then there was that weird thing about Rumple taking Snow’s necklace for “wasting his time” – did she say that was her mother’s? I can’t remember what if anything was said about it.
I don’t think it matches the one Rebecca is wearing at all but it could be a connection somehow. It seemed rather odd and we know Rumple doesn’t just grab things by happenstance, there’s usually a point to it.
Just throwing things out to see what sticks!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Thanks Stelio, I’ll take a look!
I found an amazing edit yesterday on someone’s pinterest but couldn’t find the source and didn’t want to just start using it and upset someone. I’m hoping to pick a theme/design to give it some direction and then create it myself cause I’m always envious of the awesome graphics this fandom makes and feel like all I contribute is words, but I’ve been meaning to do it for awhile so…we’ll see!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
The first Oz book was sold to MGM so they can’t use anything that was specifically from the 1939 movie. The other books were public domain and bought by Disney ages ago, and of course there’s the recent movie.
There are MANY differences between the 1939 classic, and the books / recent movie etc etc.
It’s why when Jefferson mentions the slippers he does not colorize them (they are silver in the book, red in the movie). It’s also why many of us were puzzled when Neal threw out a line about ruby slippers because I’m pretty sure they won’t be able to use them.
Some things are standard for Oz-related stuff and can be used outright but since we all know the story from the 1939 movie, and of course they’re hoping we know the recent movie, they have a whole bunch of stuff they can use that we’re not remotely familiar with unless we’ve read the books and I could see them doing that. (For instance in the books it wasn’t a dream, Dorothy’s age was different, etc etc. It’s also why so many were confused with the recent movie and struggled to connect with it more I think. Most are used to the Oz from 1939 but much of that was what the studio decided to do with it).
I was actually coming here to post the thing about her outfit. It does look like a modern/updated version of what we’re used to seeing Mrs. Gulch wear! The jacket looks a little greenish to me and of course there’s that medallion.
We never actually *saw* the Wicked Witch of the East and there is always some debate of course, even though the same actress was Elmira Gulch / Wicked Witch of the West but I’m curious to see what they’ll do with Rebecca. She has Glinda’s hair, yet seems more Gulch-ish (which would be West) but actually WEARS green (instead of looks green – at least with what we’ve seen so far) which points to Evanora. That said, if we’re going with iconic music, I would guess West.
I’m so excited it looks like we’ll be getting Oz stuff! There have been SO many references and they’ve been there from the start! Can’t wait to see what she does with it!
I’m guessing her first appearance has to be 3×13 (pretty sure that’s what they’re filming right now which is why they released that info since she’s obviously being seen and photos get out) and that makes sense with it being “Witch Hunt.”
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I need a new icon and want to make a banner but I can’t decide what I want it to look like! So jealous seeing all the awesome ones around here but haven’t made up my mind what I want yet. I hate being indecisive!
Love all the artwork though! Wish I could do stuff like that. Very impressive!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
Good point about Eric! Agree on so many of these questions, I’m racking my brain trying to figure out how it can still be possible but I’m inclined to think that Jasmine is the daughter of the man who became sultan after Jafar went after his father.
With regards to where Agrabah is and how one get to it, I’m inclined to think he went by sea and it was just a different kingdom type thing. Though it does seem to be off in the desert though so not sure exactly how they’ll tie all that in. I can’t remember if Agrabah was specifically on the map of realms or not, but I’m fairly certain there was no portal jumping to get to it. (My brain hurts trying to figure this all out and admittedly I haven’t paid quite as much attention to OUATIW as I do with the main show so I’m not positive).
I like the idea that it was a reasonable chunk of time before the curse and that everyone was under it. Agrabah I’m 99% positive is in the FTL world and not off on its own like WL or NL so that would make sense.
I’m sticking with the next sultan being the one who is Jasmine’s father. She may have been a kid when he took over and was still mostly raised in the palace, but nothing says she had to be born there. I really want to see her and Aladdin someday! It’s tough watching Jafar ride around on a magic carpet when I wanna see my favorite street rat! (Though Jafar does look better on it now than he did when we first saw it! So glad they fixed his hair and the cgi may have *slightly* improved).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I think so too Phee.
Before this ep I liked the guy in the cage. He seemed very threatened by Jafar’s existence and I think it has more to do with reputation than it does with switching up the heir thing. (Typically he wouldn’t be able to, though I suppose we can suspend disbelief for the way of the world in Agrabah maybe but it does seem weird). I feel like he was more insulted that the kid upstaged the heir he wants them to be impressed with.
Why he can’t love him and actually tried to kill him I’m not sure. He seemed so nice before that, but his son was a brat and a coward, and he was bound and determined not to ever love his son who had done nothing to him so I’m wondering what the motivation behind that was for sure.
It probably does come back to the mother in some way but I’m not sure exactly how she fits in. Could it be an anti-magic thing? The mom had it and did something to Jafar and Jafar has it, but the Sultan and Mirza don’t. Perhaps he didn’t know she had powers and considers his son some kind of abomination because of it.
As for Aladdin and Jasmine – I keep trying to figure out how/where they’ll fit in. I really really can’t believe that we won’t get them eventually. I refuse to believe that. And all of this, even with OUATIW, is part of the Once universe and they’re showing us it’s in Agrabah like Sidney. So it’s still part of the world that we’re used to playing in which makes this all very confusing. On the one hand, I’m THRILLED cause it means that Sidney isn’t the only genie. There’s also Cyrus and others, so we haven’t met “our” genie from Aladdin yet.
I’m confused though because I do expect Jasmine’s father to be a sultan in Agrabah. So when does her story take place / how does it fit in? We’ve seen this guy be sultan for agessss and only recently was dethroned and we don’t know who stepped in (Mirza is down for the count) but that was still likely fairly recent.
So how do we have Agrabah and a Sultan but no Jasmine connections? Surely they won’t completely eliminate one of the most popular princesses! So I’m struggling right now, I really am.
I don’t think that Alice and Cyrus are taking the place of them really because it would be a weird Aladdin/genie combo guy + Alice/Jasmine. I’d like to think that they’ll give us Jasmine properly. I’m just not sure where, based on what we know right now, she fits in unless her father wasn’t always the sultan but perhaps took on the job very recently when whatshisname was abducted and his heir killed? It doesn’t seem like Jafar went in and took over himself and claim the throne. He’s much too preoccupied with bothering the Red Queen and trying to hunt down genie lamps/bottles to change the laws of magic. So who’s the new Sultan?
So I’m hopeful that the new sultan who may not ever even be seen on this show, is out there somewhere and his daughter is Jasmine and that we’ll see them eventually.
I’m going to give myself a t-word headache trying to decide if any of this is possible or not. Agrabah should have been under the curse so perhaps the sultan and his daughter and her love and his genie etc etc are in SB somewhere. We don’t know for sure if WL was cursed too but it would help with the age issue if it was.
So hypothetically, a long time ago in Agrabah, Jafar captured his father the sultan and took him to WL. There was great upheaval in Agrabah, they got a new sultan who happens to have a daughter named Jasmine. They are likely in SB unless Agrabah was under the dome (doubtful) so we may see them yet on OUAT.
Meanwhile in WL…ack my head hurts. Were they cursed? Were they not cursed? I’d say 30ish years happened between the flashbacks and now but was there a 30 year pause in the middle of all that? There kinda had to be but then the Alice timeline gets even screwier so I’m confusing myself again. *brain freeze*
I really hope we do see Jasmine and Aladdin though. I’ll be very upset if we don’t get them somewhere eventually!
Don’t get me wrong, I love Alice and Cyrus, and Jafar is a compelling villain and of course I love the Knave, but all this talk of Agrabah and I want to see the real Jasmine and Aladdin!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
One more thing – Alexandra and Emma aren’t that far apart. Emma wasn’t in SB all that long before Alexandra was born. We also don’t know for sure how far apart the big Snowing wedding was, and Cinderella/Thomas’ wedding, but the kids themselves aren’t that far apart so I’m not sure you’re getting this 2 month thing from as far as Snowing pregnancy and Cinderella’s wedding.
Ashley could have gone into premature labor or something as well, but pretty sure that Emma can’t have been in SB too long before she was born which means that the two weddings are closer together (or at least could be).
So even if Snow was pregnant before the wedding and knew about it, their wedding could have been shortly followed by Cinderella & Thomas’ and Alexandra came shortly after that, putting her not too far behind Emma.
That whole section of the timeline needs work for sure. Cinderella’s stuff happened very quickly with Rumple’s help and I’m fuzzy on the details, it’s been awhile since we’ve seen her. I know Snowing were at her wedding but then we jumped forward just like we did with Snowing. We need to fill in some of those gaps and hopefully we do fairly soon! I can’t even remember how/why Snowing actually knew Cinderella in the first place much less to tie them all together. We know they were friends because we saw them at the wedding and then they helped with the Rumple problem, but my mind is drawing a complete blank about anything else that might give us a better idea of where things come together.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
I think we’ll know for sure by the end of 3×10. I’m thinking it’ll be a line somewhere or possibly show Charming’s reaction to finding out he’s going to be a dad (I hope we get a scene like that!)
Wow a lot of things happened between LotL and the pilot. I still think that Snow could have been pregnant before the big wedding (they were already married so even if it’s just a little bit / enough to guess maybe) because I feel like they had that moment in the pilot for a reason BUT lots of things have changed from the pilot too though so it could have just been a random thing.
If we’re going to get down to where we say we think it’s the day after the wedding then it could easily have been sometime shortly before it as well. I agree that the timeline with Cinderella gets a bit dicey though.
I’m sure *someone out there* knows how many days passed between the pilot and 1×04 when Alexandra was born, but even with that there’s always the possibility that she was a little premature or something. There’s not a HUGE gap between them and we don’t know exactly when a lot of stuff happened, but there are a number of factors.
I agree it’s likely to have happened around the time of the big wedding though. I just thought it was interesting since we know for sure they were married for awhile before that, and the irony struck me when I saw the pics of Ginny back in that wedding dress now that she IS pregnant since I thought a long time ago that maybe just maybe Snow was in the pilot.
So we shall see! Maybe we’ll either see some time pass and get to see Charming find out or there will be some line that clues us in like “Do you think anybody noticed?” which would be funny, especially considering the fact that Ginny IS pregnant. I’ll be very curious to see what scenes from the pilot we’ll see again and IF they do the hand thing again.
Mostly a crackpot theory more than likely, but one that should hopefully be put to rest soon. (And I really do want to see Charming find out! We know when he finds out it’s a girl but we don’t know when he finds out about the baby in the first place – at least none that I can remember and I feel like I would. We get so few father/daughter moments to begin with!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
