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MysteryKat25Participant
Good points Dimileto.
As much as I love SB I kinda hope they don’t so that people don’t get *quite* so much behind the scenes things out so fast. I like speculating about the next ep, not what’s happening 5 eps from now as it spoils a lot of the theorizing fun in between / makes some people not really want to watch until the ep that sounds the best to them is around and it got really frustrating especially early on this season. (Not to mention the constant “Colin hasn’t been seen” threads when somebody was supposed to die).
People always forget about green screen work too and if they had more on green screen – with a higher budget courtesy of not having to rent / redress Steveston all the time the green screen stuff might be better…- then maybe people would actually watch live more too if they weren’t sure they knew pretty much the entire episode weeks in advance. With how much we speculate over everything we know, sometimes there’s a little too much known about episodes so I could see this being a positive – a frustrating one because we want info, but one that makes the overall viewing experience + the ratings better in the longrun. If it can keep us guessing more that’s a good thing.
I agree that it wouldn’t make sense to have everybody leave (and there’s no way everybody would fit on the JR either, unless somebody shrunk them all or something which would be stupid), so hopefully we’ll focus on our main cast in NL.
I don’t see them killing off the rest of the town because we know that, big characters or not, they are all from fairy tales and that would be too sad to wipe them all out of existence. I like the idea of hte barrier being broken down but them choosing to stay there. They could have some characters (like Granny for instance) who choose to stay in SB and hold down the fort while the others go after Henry.
It makes sense that only the core cast is on the boat because they are all family or serve some useful purpose in going. I just hope they explain why Red is staying in SB and not going with them (as far as we know). I know the actress has another gig but is supposed to still be seen from time to time (assuming the pilot is picked up) so we have to accept the fact that Red isn’t tagging along even though a wolf might be useful to have help….like in that other sneak where just Charming & Hook are fighting GOAT, but we have to make allowances for the actress too). I just want there to be logical reasons for those who remain. IE: if Snow asks her to stay and protect the rest of the town or something. Ruby was never too thrilled at the idea of going anyway until outsiders became a threat. If that threat is neutralized by them going elsewhere, then she can live a peaceful existence in SB until the time comes where that is no longer the case. Snow trusts her more than most so I could see her telling Ruby it’s ok to stay here and keep an eye on things while Snow goes off with her family. There’s MORE than enough “cooks in the kitchen” that will be butting heads on the journey as it is. I could see Granny, Ruby, the dwarfs and Anton staying behind to keep everybody else safe as long as they don’t feel threatened by being there anymore (ie: failsafe is definitely dead and the outside world isn’t attacking them. We have no reason right now to believe they went along and they’re all very trusted by Emma and the rest).
Seriously, can you imagine Rumple, Regina, Snow, Charming, Emma, & Hook in tight quarters? All with a different idea of how to save Henry? Of how to do…basically anything? There should be some good drama and I’m looking forward to seeing this group a) have to work toward a common goal and b) hopefully this will give them all a chance to actually TALK.
The one thing I did like about earlier in the season was that the separation from everybody else forced Emma & Snow to bond. We need her bonding with Charming too so hopefully we get that a bit more in S3 (and a little less of Snow being patronizing…I think Charming is trying to balance out the parental units attacking Emma and forcing her to get close to them so he stays back a bit more knowing that Snow likes to push things. I think they’ll naturally come together in the near future (start of S3 probably) but we saw a little bit of that recently too so that’s good.
I was hoping for more of that to happen when Cora sent Emma & Neal to a random spot in the woods as I figured they’d have to walk back and actually talk but that didn’t happen. Perhaps with the group of core cast together, people will get a chance to really talk.
That being said…if the titles are any indication of the proper directions of how to get to Neverland, I don’t think they’ll be on the ship for very long. The directions pretty much say you’ll be there in the morning (unless Hook tells them differently and says that those are just “guidelines” in which I will crack up at Captain Jack Sparrow-Lite).
So we may only get a short amount of time with them all trapped together but it could still be very amusing / enlightening for the different combinations we might get. (Look how amusing Gold on a plane was and there wasn’t much of him sitting there at all but that face was priceless. Now we have a group of antsy people including some who have never been to Neverland, all coping with loss and fear and a mission. So many feelings!)
The wording is definitely interesting and since it is an H&K ep I hope that it was done for a reason. Also, I totally forgot about Alexandra! *smacks forehead* But yeah, let’s not do a repeat of child taking care of child in a world all alone. (Though I think he’d do a better job of it than Pinocchio did, especially since he knows the consequences of that. The only thing I loved about young Pinocchio was the cuteness when he actually was still with baby Emma. Then it all went downhill).
As for Tamara I’m not sure we’d get confirmation either way because if she goes through a portal then she’s not exactly around to either be saved or die with the rest.
I’m kinda liking the idea of the core cast going off for awhile and not seeing SB for a bit and then them coming back. Still not sure about the failsafe though because usually if you show something like that is around, you use it. At some point it does get used and I don’t think on this show that it won’t come into play somehow. The candle did, the de-aging thing Rumple mentioned to Smee did (in a roundabout way courtesy of Blue but it still happened) etc etc. So I feel like it pretty much has to go off eventually…hmm.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@TheGoldenKey wrote:
Agreed Kat. Perhaps the line should have said “wasn’t my ONLY stop”. Just one more teeny tiny thing to make us go crazy throughout the summer hiatus ๐ Which brings us back to him also saying he is a couple of hundred years old. We are missing years here as well, but that’s another discussion for the other thread dealing with Bae & Wendy’s timeline.
Ah, THAT was the thread I was looking for to explain some of the stuff that came up in the livechat about the timeline. Thanks! (Short version: supposedly somebody said it was the 19th century he landed in which means sometime in the 1800s which means the portal probably worked like the others have so far and he didn’t miss any years, just landed. The main issue with this is it still LOOKS like early 1900s and then of course there’s Big Ben being in existence which ALSO leads it to be early 1900s. *cue head-scratching*)
I agree that it should have been wasn’t the ONLY stop, that would have made FAR more sense. (They should know by now how we overanalyze stuff, how did they miss that?).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantThis was my issue before because I was such a big proponent of him going to Neverland and everybody said there’s no way he did because it’s a land without magic.
Then this week, everything I said about him coming here first and then getting transported to Neverland, just like Wendy and everyone else in the stories of Peter Pan, is shown and makes perfect sense OTHER than the fact that he made some weird comment about it earlier on.
All season long I’ve been fighting for Neverland because it DOES make sense that he came here first and then went there because we know how people from London travelled back and forth in that story. There wasn’t anything that didn’t make that possible from the traditional Peter Pan story.
But now we have it and it’s still confusing! If it weren’t for that one stupid line of NealFire’s it would all be fine because it would make sense. The only way it doesn’t is if it’s some alternate version of London but then how the heck does that fit in with anything?
Who wrote the episode with that line in it? I swear somebody just didn’t catch it and thought they were being so clever hinting at Neverland without realizing that they were actually contradicting earlier stuff and that he did come here ever so briefly before going to Neverland.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI could see that RG. He’s gotta win Bae’s trust somehow though and right now Bae is sitting in the brig hating pirates and blaming them for his childhood. In his eyes, if pirates hadn’t killed his mother, his father wouldn’t be the way he was and he would have grown up with both his parents. He probably even thinks that Milah would have been able to do what he couldn’t and convince Rumple not to use the Dark One powers.
I think something has to happen for Hook and Bae to go from I hate pirates to let me teach you how to drive the ship and swordfight.
That’s not to say that something doesn’t happen very shortly after that clip but I feel like he has to learn that info soon. Otherwise why wouldn’t he take the first chance he got to hop off that boat? (Depending on how far out at sea it is he may worry about the curse of the mermaids but still, he has to learn at some point if he’s going to tell Hook how much he hates him one minute and then be buddy-buddy the next.)
Hook may try to be kinder to him the moment he realizes who Bae is whether Bae understands why he softens or not, I just don’t see how Bae would willingly go and learn how to be a pirate so fast unless something big happens, like Hook reacting to who he must be.
On the other hand, maybe Hook just softens and gives him a regular room and just says something like “not all the stories are true” and leaves it at that for now with something for Bae to think about and then Bae ventures out and explores and Hook takes a moment to teach him how to drive or something and they start bonding just a little bit (we know that at some point Hook teaches Bae to drive the ship because he knows how later on).
So they could have little tiny almost bonding things with Bae still being leery / resentful until something big happens (like if the ship is attacked and Hook makes a point of protecting him or something and they get into a big thing about it and he says something about Milah – either that or Bae will run into him some time when he’s looking at the tattoo or something and Bae will see it, that could happen too).
I have a feeling that things are still SUPER raw for Hook as this is early going for losing Milah and having her son suddenly appear is going to flood him with all kinds of emotions. He may get very sentimental / very quiet (like he did when Emma saw his tattoo) and he could very well be looking at it sometime soon after finding out who Bae is and then Bae sees it.
I agree Lisa – I think that fight is how Hook is able to swipe a bean. We’ve seen he’s good with it before (even if he did lose a hand in the process, poor guy couldn’t catch a break) and we know the good guys need one at some point.
I like the idea that he triggers Belle’s memories by trying to give her up because he’s so down and feels unworthy and that she’s the one that convinces him to help. I think you’re right about the Henry angle too because that is all he has left of Neal now and if there’s one thing Rumple doesn’t allow it’s people messing with his family. I’m surprised he hasn’t gone after Tamara yet but this is just his initial reaction, he’s absolutely gutted and he blames himself. He needs to snap out of it for a second to get some justice and I think the Henry stuff will do just that. He’s already lost Neal (or so he thinks) and I don’t think he’s ok with losing Henry.
Which reminds me…did Snow say that “anyone not born here” will be killed? Does that mean that Henry would be all by himself in SB? He’s the only one born in the outside world….I feel like there was a reason that Snow explained it like that but there aren’t many people around that weren’t born here other than Greg and Tamara as far as we know at least. So SB gets wiped off the map leaving Henry with GOAT regardless? That’s not a good plan either, Rumple should realize that (though he’s admittedly not thinking straight right now).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantSo many good Hook sneaks! So many! *happy dance*
Ok seriously there is SO much stuff, especially in that one with Bae – curse of the mermaids? Hook know who he is. HE KNOWS! You can see it in his eyes! Bring on that softer side of Hook – seriously everybody keeps saying he'd be rotten with Henry but they haven't seen him interact with a kid yet, just flirt his way around to get what he wants which is why they don't think Emma is special (even though she IS). Showing him with young Bae gives him so many potential bonding moments with Henry down the line, SO MANY!
Also happy he has clearly chosen a side. He's fighting with Greg pretty hardcore to get the failsafe, he showed up to fight WITH CHARMING BY HIS SIDE, etc etc. He's one of the good guys! Finally! They'll all have work to do but I'm looking forward to seeing how things went down at the apartment earlier on, especially after Charming punches him in front of Emma…sadly I don't think she'll ask Charming why he never punched Neal because of the current circumstances, but maybe someday that double standard will come into play. You'd think DaddyCharming would be more upset about that! But at least we know they work together later on!
Charming must trust Hook enough to definitely be on his side rather than taking Charming into a trap…why else would he agree to go with Hook by himself to the warehouse or wherever (cannery?) to fight with Greg & Tamara? CHARMING MUST TRUST HOOK – or perhaps he just trusts Emma's judgment…can we please get Emma saying “Trust him” and something along the lines of the last time she trusted him she wouldn't let herself but she should have, and then get a little apology in there about making him work with Cora? – it could be one of the only flirty moments between them, especially since I'm not sure when he'll know/pickup on/ find out that something is wrong regarding Neal.
Which leads to the does he know Neal is the boy he once knew as Bae? question. We may get everything we were wanting jampacked into one ep but I think that we'll FINALLY have an episode that is centered on HOOK based on all the sneaks! I hope we find out how Hook feels about Bae in modern-day too and that he & Emma can bond over it – maybe swap stories on the ship? Cause this could very well be a shared loss as well as a loss that Hook understands all too well.
Maybe this ep will help people see a little of what we’ve been saying is there. I got into a debate last night after the podcast and they basically called Hook / CS people “delusional” because they don’t see how there was any setup at all in Tallahassee for a CS pairing. I swear they think we’re 1 step above SQ people *sigh*. I think this ep will force people to see a different side of him, even if they hate that it does that. Then maybe, just maybe, they’ll have to agree that something is there for people to see, even though they prefer the other – you know, like we’ve been doing with SwanFire.
I’m greatly encouraged by the sneaks today! Now give me some Hook & Emma interaction. Pretty please?? (Since they've described it as “important” and “awesome” I'm going to say we probably won't get it until the episode just because it could be something HUGE and super spoilery but *fingers crossed* we get some moments on Sunday regardless!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantCompletely understandable Phee! I'm starting to get more on board with the idea because it's Hook that is saying there's a “curse of the mermaids” so it would make sense that is the one who is shown differently. The only issue I have with it at this point is if he spent 100-200 years in Neverland …and Neverland time makes it seem like even longer than that….why haven't they gotten together already? Has there been some poor mermaid just pining away for 200 years? Or have they just not run into each other because he avoids mermaids? He hasn't been there for too long when he's warning Bae about them but I feel like if we see him meet Ariel in the past, she'll have waited one heck of a long time to have him and it brings me back to one of my issues with SwanFire which makes it hard for me to defend for Hookriel. It's just so depressing but I could see unrequited love for sure. Unless they haven't interacted much or have a more complicated relationship, I'm just not sure how waiting around for hundreds of years for somebody who did something to push you away or ignored you is true love. This version of Ariel sounds like it's going to be a lot darker and have some interesting storylines to it, but I'm not sure how if they were both in Neverland it hasn't happened already – and if it has and they have a complicated past then that's been going on for a reallllly long time and if after 200 years it's still not working give up already.
I like the possibility and I see the potential (again with a little * just because we haven’t seen her cast yet, know the age, see them interact etc etc, though I do have a couple of concerns. The quote was certainly interesting though!
I agree about the not too many eligible bachelors in Neverland idea though. And his name very well could be Eric and he changed it to Killian – more piratey. It’ll be interesting to see where they go with it and where in the timeline it happens…
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantWow, just….wow! I came back and there’s lots more sneaks than expected!
Rumple & the Charmings – that whole scene was just…*sniff*; we see Emma telling Henry (once again off to the side, just seeing it while somebody else is in focus but I think that actually works well and we’re bound to get Henry’s reaction later on, poor little guy) and Rumple…poor Rumple.
Rumple, I know you’re hurting and you DO have a lot to answer for because of all the things you did to get him here but NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO STOP DOING MAGIC. You need to save the rest of your family! Bae would not want them all to die because you blame yourself at the wrong time.
Hopefully he’ll channel some of that toward a more appropriate channel, ie; Tamara and save the self-loathing for later.
Hook & Charming – yay, they’re working together! Did they really think that Greg was by himself and they had him cornered? Really? Tamara is the dangerous one here guys! And you apparently know this from Emma since you told Rumple that Tamara shot Neal. *sigh* At least they’re fighting TOGETHER and Hook, though once again on the floor *double sigh* is fighting to get the failsafe from Greg so he’s obviously chosen a side yay!!!
Hook & Bae – SO MUCH IN THIS! Where to start….
Ok so Bae, to start with, is being held captive but that actually makes sense as it’s a pirate ship and they don’t know him – at least they went to talk to him fairly early it seems, and he’s not tied up just being kept down there until they can analyze the situation – probably normal procedure on a pirate ship, never know who to trust, especially when you’re new in town and there’s a shadow stealing people all over the place lol.
Bae was rescued from “the curse of the mermaids” ?? That could mean so many things! Ideas so far:
1) The mermaids are a “curse” that Neverland has to endure (they are not nice creatures, though 1 *cough* Ariel *cough* could prove Hook / somebody else wrong
2) If you stay in the water too long / die in the water perhaps? Then you become a mermaid and are therefore “cursed” – perhaps in this story Ariel was once human, was somehow cursed to be a mermaid to survive and mermaids are inherently mean and she doesn’t want to be that anymore? Just a thoughtStill an interesting line and I can’t wait to see how mermaids factor in to everything (we are totally getting mermaids in S3! We have to, too many mentions of it lately, especially with Neverland stuff).
And then there’s the turning point: Hook realizes who Bae is. Hook realizes who Bae is. I seriously think that until this moment he has no clue what to do with this kid but he’s intrigued by him. Bae mouths off, has obviously had some connection to pirates before (even though he’s wrong about the circumstances) and isn’t afraid to say he doesn’t like them.
Hook asks what happened to his dad and he says he left him *sniff* and calls him a COWARD! The look on Hook’s face, I just…did you SEE that look?? Wonder if he’s going to tell Bae the truth at some point (probably – will help down the line for Neal not wanting to see Rumple again and it would be the TRUTH which Bae deserves to know. Kinda sad when you think about it actually – the pirate will be honest with him where his father failed to be. And we’re not talking Dark One Rumple lied, we’re talking pre-Dark One Rumple, when Bae was a boy and his mother was gone. He spent his whole childhood thinking his mother was killed by pirates.)
I really think that after that moment we’ll see Hook be MUCH kinder to him. I still don’t think he has a clue what to do with kids, but Bae is old enough that he can learn a lot of things like driving the ship and swordfighting so I think Hook will find a way to have some fun with it and hopefully teach him stuff (like more about the mermaids??). Hook couldn’t destroy the shawl because Milah made it. He just realized this is Milah’s son (and also the son of the man that he hates – BUT the key here is that he is Milah’s son too and I think that Hook will see a lot more of Milah in him than he does Rumple and will bond with Bae over what happened and they will get along for a time at least).
SO EXCITED to see Hook actually working with the good guys for once and watching him bond with young Bae is going to be awesome! So many feelings right now, so many!
I’ve been begggggging for them to show a different side to him so that people will stop saying Hook fans are delusional for seeing any ounce of goodness in him back from Tallahassee but the way he spoke of the lost boys gives me hope that he’s not really as bad as people think. We can’t presume to know what the OUAT version of a story will be just because we know the classics. Bring on a softer, gentler Hook and one who is fighting with the good guys rather than against them! (Oh and Neverland. Bring on Neverland too!)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantLoved that theory that came up in the livechat! It’s certainly plausible and would make that one pesky little scene have so much more meaning. The fact that August had to show it to him rather than say it may have caused the look Neal gave him to make much more sense!
It wasn’t just fear that somebody knew, it’s fear that Rumple could find him! It was almost…a silent threat from August in a way. Interesting!
Something else that was brought up and well-explained in the livechat (and I can’t remember who brought this up, grrr) but it was about the timeline issues that we’ve been having.
Daniel said that we never saw it on the show but it was confirmed elsewhere that Bae landed in 19th century London. That makes it the 1800s still and Bae did tell Emma that if he hadn’t stopped anywhere else he’d be a couple hundred years old.
I have minor issues with this just because it looks more early 1900s which is in line with the Peter Pan stories etc, and it just…looks like early 1900s to me. But, unlike I thought before it really doesn’t specify when all of this goes down.
We’ve been thinking that Rumple is 300 years old but he might not be, that could have been a guess or limited knowledge at the time. Even in today’s interviews Colin O’Donaghue says “however old he is” in relation to Hook which makes me think that they don’t have actual years they’re going off of as far all of that goes. Sometimes the actors answer questions as they themselves see the characters, but ultimately if we haven’t seen it on the show then we just don’t know for sure (unless H&K specify and I don’t think we’ve gotten anything other than “centuries” for Rumple and 2 centuries is still centuries plural).
So technically…the portal may have acted like all the other ones we’ve seen and NOT travelled through time really but rather Bae just went straight to London. We know 6 months pass between him falling through and ending up with the Darlings, after which a matter of “weeks” (thanks for being vague >.<) also take place. Somewhere in those 6 months + weeks = when Rumple went after Milah and Hook. So…I was wrong earlier on my guess of how he ended up in the early 1900s and he probably didn’t really travel through time and space, just space in that particular vortex. We haven’t really seen anybody time travel much anyway, with the exception of Jefferson getting the apple for Regina. They do keep mentioning time though so it’s still a possibility for someone, but it seems less likely in the case of Bae. That being said time works differently in NL than it does in our world / FTL which seem to be running alongside each other. So who knows how long it felt like it was for Bae but it was still fairly quick travel more than likely. Unless they do say it was early 1900s which fits with all the Peter Pan angles of the mythology. I saw some dates earlier people were mentioning and I thought that’s when he landed but that doesn’t seem likely now… I really like the idea that the name is a trigger though and it brings Rumple to NL (he should be able to travel there no problem) and I believe that Bae does tell Hook his name; was in one of the promos so we may see this play out (how shocking would it be to see him randomly show up?).
I don’t think he’ll do that right away – he hasn’t been the Dark One long and it’s taken him at least 6 months + a couple weeks to do anything in the first place and Bae has to be found by Hook first etc, but down the line I think it could happen. Whether it relates to the shadow thing chasing Bae that remains to be seen, but I think the name is important. Rumple does traffic in them after all.
The other important thing to note is the fact that in Manhattan Rumple makes a point of saying that this isn’t the first time that Bae has run. We haven’t seen him EVER run from Rumple, so we need to see that play out somewhere and Neverland is the best solution. (If not from the shadow thing then maybe when Rumple shows up wanting squid ink and has a run in with somebody that Bae knows is nice and he sees Rumple treating them horribly and then is seen or something).
Random question about Manhattan – Neal was surprised when he found out his father was there, right? Who else was he running from at this point and will that have any consequences down the road? He was planning to stop stealing back in Tallahassee (and probably did so after what happened to / with Emma), yet he doesn’t have his name on the apartment buzzer panel and he runs at the first buzz? How did Tamara ever visit him, phone ahead and request an invite? WHY DID HE RUN IF HE DIDN’T KNOW IT WAS THEM??
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@astrawoid wrote:
I think it’s very telling that Colin had to bow out of his band and decided to take it easy this summer. Perhaps all in preparation for a busy fall schedule as a regular for season 3? ๐
I certainly hope so! I’m sure he missed a lot of gigs this year which had something to do with it too but since that’s still the case since filming is over I hope that’s what it means! (I’d like to think that if he said it was a 1 and done season they’d welcome him back with open arms…)
Bring on Hook & Neverland for lots of Season 3 goodness!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI was always awful in science (it was my one bad subject) and yet I love sci-fi stuff. Go figure!
As for the studies that is certainly interesting! Yay for more things backing us up. ๐
As for the guitar…I think it’s something about it being cradled in their arms. They’re very protective of their guitars and while they are technically strong enough to damage it they instead choose to make beautiful music with it and keep it very close to them. It’s like seeing a big strong guy with a very small child in their arms being protective and gentle instead of accidentally crushing it. It’s just….cute!
It also works on a talent level as well. I totally agree with the “sensitivity, talent, passion, and convinction” part!
I think the rest is just that we wish we could be held that close!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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