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MysteryKat25Participant
*passes out cookies*
I feel your pain, that was pretty much me the other night when I came in here looking for some CS solace.
I am encouraged by the use of “important” and “awesome” in regards to the Hook / Emma interaction for this upcoming episode. Adam used both to describe *some* scene, no idea what but I’m hopeful.
I completely agree that it was WAY too fast for her to be over everything that’s happened so I firmly believe it was a last second – I think you’re dying – kind of thing, cause she really seems to believe that.
Once he’s back we’ll either have had her broken but hopefully coming around and getting close to Hook in the meantime, causing a real triangle to form that people can actually SEE for once (tired of being told it doesn’t exist!) OR he’ll be back sooner as opposed to later / she’ll pine away for him if there’s even a glimmer of a possibility – which Hook will totally understand, especially if they all believe him to be dead since he went through all of that with Milah & I think he’ll be understanding / patient for a bit (bring on softer Killian!)
Kinda hoping NealFire is back sooner so that they can go ahead and get their shot out of the way but have it be awkward and show that there are still real issues to deal with that they haven’t completely addressed. She didn’t let him off scot-free when he said he was too afraid and that’s why he moved on – but did you notice he was STILL defending Tamara and was STILL saying that he missed Emma everyday but he was STILL going to marry Tamara!!! (Until she pointed a gun and shot him – he totally didn’t deserve that, poor guy has been through enough and I like him as a character but when it comes to her he is just as blind as a bat!)
It goes back to my earlier annoyances of him obviously enjoying the fact that Emma was jealous and giving the “oh isn’t that cute?” face while still professing his desire to marry Tamara to Emma, introducing her to HENRY, battling against Rumple about it even when Rumple pointed out he still loved Emma. I mean COME ON – if he were truly wishing he were with Emma, and he is now back in her life albeit not the way he originally intended…he wouldn’t have dragged Tamara into their lives, and seeing that Emma is jealous would make him think he still had a shot (especially after comments like “I hate seeing you have Tallahassee with someone else” and yet he was STILL defending her and getting on Emma for thinking she was the bad guy in all of this!
I really really think that their last second thing was because they both thought he was pretty much a goner and that they still felt things from ages ago but they haven’t had time to see what it’s like now. Kinda like on Lost where after 3 years -showtime, not real life thank goodness – Kate and Sawyer finally saw each other again but he had moved on to Juliet and was very much in love with her but on some level was still really happy seeing that Kate was alive but it became this weird awkward thing for a bit and then they just kinda went their separate ways but still had each others backs – I'm still annoyed by this because I am a HUGE Skate fun, but perhaps the writers will switch it up this time and let Sawyer – aka Hook get the right girl *fingers crossed*
I will love Hook no matter what and am trying to convince myself that as long as it’s done well and preferably not with anybody we’ve met on the show so far I can handle him being with someone else as long as it’s done right and is super convincing because I love him and want him to be happy but I really really want some CaptainSwan goodness cause it’s just been hanging there…forever…and he was supposed to be around last year and there’s no way we would have met Neal season 1 (grrrr).
I do like Neal (though I love the younger version of him more; Bae is adorable and sweet and kind and brave; Neal I have issues with on his decisions but I still mostly see his appeal, Bae is in there somewhere still) and I love the connection it gives to everybody through Henry but I want Henry’s happy ending to have everybody he loves around them and have them all find love too. Doesn’t mean his parents have to be together as long as they’re both happy and not pining away anymore.
I’ve read so many things about how Emma reminds Neal of Wendy etc etc. Well Hook reminded her of Neal which is the only reason she was afraid to trust him! But let’s face it, Hook is the master and taught Bae most of what he knows of his piratey/thieving ways! Go with the master…good Swan.
If Bae can be close to Wendy (and probably miss her desperately and if he’s Pan find a way to visit her and her descendants for awhile – likely true if they follow the story) and he can still move on with Emma…then why can’t Emma move on after all the stuff he’s done and find love with someone else? Why is that so wrong??
I get the appeal of SwanFire I do (minus their issues and if they address them and make it happen I’ll find a way to deal with it I guess) but I like the potential elsewhere too. I love Snowing and all but I don’t want a boring Snowing 2.0 (I’m still hopeful that once they’re in a different land they’ll become more like Snowing 1.0 which was way more exciting – I’ll adore them either way, but it’s why I’m not super invested in them! – Also we know it has to happen, they’re Disney canon).
As for H&K’s responses to everything: they’re only asked about some stuff, like SQ on twitter – which is also where they get attacked about it. One of them said the other day in response to a particularly rude fan that if people asked about it they’d answer but they never get asked except on twitter. Honestly I think it would end up something like this “with this show never say never and never give up hope but so far we’ve seen them be at odds for a lot of big reasons. Regina has on more than one occasion tried to kill Emma and wipe out her entire family to take Henry away from them. Also we’ve only seen them be in relationships with men so far but you never know.”…I’m guessing that’s how it would go.
On the bright side as CS people I really don’t think we’re imagining things, especially after PaleyFest. I think a lot of other big stuff has to happen and I’m a little upset with what happened in the last ep because a) it was emotional cause I do like the charcters and b) it totally botched any CS hope for this season as far as anything truly fun and flirty since Emma will be truly broken especially with what else is happening but I think that Hook will totally understand that and find some awesome way to approach it and really help her, building a solid foundation of friendship to build toward something in the future down the line.
(Anybody else thinking of a Spuffy scene in Buffy where Spike was on his way over to Buffy's house wanting to kill her once again for treating him so horribly – which she totally did! poor Spike! – only to get there and see her crying and not even up to bantering because she was so upset as her mother had just died so when he got there he just sat and put his arms around her, knowing he'd do anything for her and only really hated that he loved her so much? Yeah I'm thinking Hook comforts Emma and we get a Spuffy-esque scene like that – minus the desire to kill her of course but Jane Espenson did love Spuffy and she was the most vocal about lots of people loving Hook and CaptainSwan – at least equal to the Neal / SwanFire lovers and she seemed the most excited in interviews mentioning CaptainSwan too. Hook is totally like Spike only he better get treated better than that down the line! I don’t want Sawyer 2.0, I don’t want Spike 2.0, I was HOOK 1.0 to get all the wonderful things he deserves!
Ok wow this has gone on long but I hope it helps cheer up any CaptainSwan people who are still upset / worried about what’s going on. I’ve had some time to calm down since the ep and I’m hopeful it sets up some really beautiful stuff for us down the road, whether Neal comes back right now or later on once CS has really had a chance to start (in which case it’ll be a triangle for a bit but she better go for the pirate).
Also, I swear if one more person says that Neal is a thief like Emma I’m going to scream (Hook is a PIRATE!)
So here’s some cookies for all those who love Killian Jones and want CaptainSwan to work! I really think it can and I stand by my “Killian is like Westley and Hook is the Dread Pirate Roberts” theory…I’ve always sensed a mixture of Westley and Captain Jack Sparrow and hello, another parallel: shepherd boy / farm boy? Oh yeah, I went there. Princess Bride reference! (Tell me he doesn’t sound like DPR-Westley…I dare you!) Hmm, wonder if Killian Jones is a title like DPR…and if so what is his real name? (Killian DOES sound like a piratey name and Jones certainly is because of Davey Jones – maybe it’s like the Beard thing…Blackbeard, Bluebeard, etc. etc.) If we get farm boy it’s totally like Charming!
Oh and the Charming punch thing? He got it out of his system pretty fast with Whale. It’s kinda his thing. Still waiting on him to get the full scoop on Neal though and punch him too. I mean really, he let your baby go to jail and she gave your grandson to the Evil Queen to raise, which is Pinocchio’s fault who also abandoned her and never got punched out either! CHARMING! Go back to your kickaxe swordfighting ways and get closer to your girl! (Ok, they did have a nice bonding moment but they haven’t gotten to talk about much at all ever! She was close to MM and they knew stuff about each other long before the curse was broken. She needs some serious DaddyCharming time and he hasn’t been that great at it since the pilot – still one of the best swordfights ever – so she obviously needs a man with swordfighting skills and who has that / likes a girl who can fight? Oh right that would be HOOK! (OK to some degree YOUNG Bae as well but I don’t think NealFire cares so much for that aspect and would be perfectly happy settling down somewhere quiet. Emma needs more adventure in her day (hello miss bounty hunter who can slay dragons!). Sure she wants her family and a more quiet life but so did Snow…and look who goes out to shoot a bow & arrow while listening to an ipod to blow off steam.
Wow I really ranted here but hope some of it helped! (This has got to be my longest post ever but I just love CaptainSwan that much!)
Ooo thanks for the reminder Obisgirl! I totally forgot about that! (Not a tumblr person) but it goes to show there are LOTS of Hook fans out there! More CaptainSwan fans are out there too, we’re just a little outnumbered here that’s all! (Some may like the actor but not the character, and some may just think he’s hot, but we know the real story and stand by our man and that’s all that matters. If Belle can love a Beast like Rumple and have that be supported then why not a little CaptainSwan love here and there? Am I right?)
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
Now if we could get some more sneak peeks ftom Sunday’s season finale I would be a happy person
Tomorrow is Wednesday, so we will all be on the look out!
I think Hook will end up switching sides and helping Emma, Henry, Snow, David, Rumple, Belle, Regina, Red, Granny, Anton, The Dwarves, possibly The BF. when he realizes GOAT have no intention of letting him live either
I agree, I also think he will steal one of the beans because somehow the CharmingStiltskins have to have one.
I agree and I like that idea! Should be fun to see Hook put some of those pirate skills to good use!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantInteresting theory.
My one question would be this then: why was so much left out of it (like Dr. Frankenstein?)
Also, anything that happens in the past happened (using Lost logic since these writers worked on Lost). That means that in the past Henry had some book to go off of to wake him up and get Emma, right? Cause if he didn’t, then how would he have grown up and snapped out of it to write the book and send it to himself (via MM?)
It’s certainly an interesting theory and we know they’re not afraid to do some time-travelling here and there, but I’m more inclined to believe it was the BF at this point in time.
As for Jane – she says stuff sometimes but then learns new things in the writer’s room that’s kept under wraps. The book is rather important so I have a feeling not too many people know about it, possibly nobody but H&K (I know Jane Espenson is an executive consultant or whatever it is now but H&K are still the showrunners and know more of what’s going on than any of the individual writers along the way).
So while it is unlikely…I would take anything not stated by H&K with a grain of salt….and even H&K are shifty sometimes (but in a good way…I like it most of the time. It means they have a story to tell that they want us to be surprised by, whether the promo department likes that idea or not).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantWow so many things to think about!
As far as plotholes go, they fill in gaps in the story later on when they have more time to tell it. It’s (usually) a tease for something to be revealed later on rather than a plothole. Most stuff gets touched on again later.
We don’t know anything about Rumple’s mother yet, just that he is the son of a coward and was raised by “spinsters.”
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@obisgirl wrote:
It’s almost Wednesday. It’ll be nice if we get some CS sneak peeks for next episode.
That would be fantastic! They will if they know what’s good for them to appease the other side of the fandom since they’ve done so much with SwanFire lately but they may worry about upsetting people who have seen reasons on screen recently to lean in one direction over the other.
We are supposed to get some “important” interaction with them, and H&K keep promising we’ll see them interact, Adam even said yesterday there’s an “awesome scene” for them so *fingers crossed*
There was so much hinted at during PaleyFest I feel like they knew something which means stuff happens this season (though I don’t know how after last week) but I hope we get something to live off of for the summer…
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI think the name thing is important which could be a key to Bae changing his name at some point (Baelfire sticks out like a sore thumb anyway but still).
Also – welcome to the head spinning of the timeline RG (I would have replied sooner but internet is being really stupid right now). I went through all the stuff you were thinking and then got to the sticking point about how long it has been for Rumple / Hook / Smee vs Bae.
As for the idea of the tracking thing – if he did try that and it didn’t work / Bae thwarted it and knew what to look out for in the future then he may not have tried it again, instead he turned to other means: the curse that took him ages to complete / find someone to enact, and the globe which helped narrow down things in our world.
The main point I was trying to make about the shadow being a tracker of sorts is that it would work only after Bae landed – so 100+ years of falling through the vortex – and then if Bae gets rid of it somehow it would have been a failure so of no use to him again in the future. If it’s tied to the name in any way and Bae figures that out, name changes to something Rumple doesn’t know and poof, it’s gone. Bae is definitely running from his past and a lot could have happened in Neverland with that shadow thing involved.
I’m pretty sure he at least changed his name because it’s so easy to follow but if he figured out that the thing could find him easily and put it together with his father (especially if Rumple does visit Neverland at some point – be it following a shadow tracker thing or needing squid ink from mermaid lagoon etc etc) Bae would panic and if he changes it to something new, Rumple would have no way of knowing other than his other methods not working.
The only reason the globe worked was because of blood – the one thing Bae couldn’t escape easily, and even that took Rumple a long time to get a hold of.
There are lots of gaps to be filled in with Neverland and the shadow but I think that shadow specifically wanted Bae.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantWell hmm…I almost had an answer and then my head started spinning again.
*Rumple lets go of Bae
*Bae lands 150 years later in Victorian London
*6 months later Bae meets the Darling children
*Bae spends “weeks” with them
*Shadow takes Wendy to Neverland
*Shadow returns Wendy in exchange for one of the boys
*Bae sacrifices himself and travels to Neverland
*Bae is picked up by Hook & SmeeHere’s where I thought we were onto something and then got all discombobulated again. Bae fell through a verrrry long vortex so Rumple DID have a long time to work on his magic, be tracking Bae, coming up with various things etc. But then where does all the Hook stuff fit in?
*Hook meets Milah when Bae is a small child, they run off together
*Rumple becomes the Dark One
*Bae goes through the vortex
*Not much time passes (we think) and Hook kills Milah & cuts off Hook’s hand, causing Killian Jones to become Captain Hook
*Hook goes to Neverland
*Hook pulls Bae out of the waterNow, that seems simple, but the question is the timeline: how long has Hook been in Neverland at this point? We keep saying it can’t have been long after the Milah thing and because Bae is still 14 etc, reducing the timeline massively, but if it’s been 150 years for Bae then presumably it’s been the same for Hook (although time apparently passes differently in NL, BUT he went to Neverland a long time ago back when Bae was first 14, soon after he started his trip down the very long rabbit hole – I mean vortex).
So is it possible that Hook’s been hanging out in Neverland with Smee for a very long time at this point? Rather than the short gap that we keep supposing? I still think the Milah / hand thing probably happened not TOO long after Bae went through the vortex but at the same time Rumple could have learned a lot of dark magic before that happened and then he had 150 years to develop enough to possibly send some kind of magical tracking device after him in an attempt to find him which failed (in which case why didn’t the shadow just take him and run instead of going to Neverland unless Neverland is key in getting him back to the other realm – ie: our world doesn’t have magic so he can’t use a realm jumper from there). Also it sets up the idea that Hook possibly helps Bae avoid his father, like if he either goes to Neverland or the shadow thing is a magical tracking device of some sort and he manages to destroy it or conquer it or merge with it but be in control and get out of Neverland.
Oo what if…Rumple sends the magical tracking device shadow….Bae eventually merges with it (could take some time: learn to be a pirate, avoid land, fight against it etc etc + Neverland times works differently) then that alerts Rumple, he goes there after him but Hook helps hide / protect him and then Bae flees to a world without magic (our world again) and the magical tracking device shadow is mute because of the no magic thing? Then perhaps Rumple stays to collect squid ink etc etc. (There were discussions going on about this in the Rumple / Neverland thread and this just gave me an idea about it).
Anyway lots of questions but I do think the shadow wanted a specific boy (though maybe it by itself can’t tell which one but knew him to be staying at the Darling house?) and did what it had to in order to get Bae to Neverland for the next phase of the plan.
Wow my head is really spinning now!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@TheGoldenKey wrote:
@Belle wrote:
This is kind of a crazy theory, but when I heard that the shadow was only looking for boys, I thought what if Rumple had this whole island orchastrated to find Bae.
It reminded me of when King Herod ordered all the babies two years and under to be killed because Jesus was the prophesided king. Except for Rumple is looking for his son so he is ordering the shadow to collect all the boys in our land around the age of 14.
Rumple wouldn’t have found Bae because he was with Hook. If Hook found out that Bae was Rumple’s son, he wouldn’t have let Rumple find him.
Just a crazy idea!
Slurpeez mentioned this theory on another thread and I have to agree with her. I love this theory!
While K&H have said that both Bae and the shadow showed up at Wendy’s at exactly the same time they did not say that it followed Bae through the vortex at the same time. Only that magic followed him through. That could have been 6 months later.
Maybe Bae finally telling Wendy his name was Bae, out loud, triggered the shadow to seek him out in that home. It’s a good parallel to the real Rumpelstiltskin tale, where they find out his name when he sings it out loud around a fire.
Gosh, Rumple as the real, behind the scenes, leader of the Lost Boys. What fun! 😆
Oh wow I hadn’t thought of that! The name thing could very well have been a trigger of some sort. I doubt he told anybody that before while he was roaming around stealing food to eat.
If the magic followed him though we still need the apparently short history of the shadow and how it got separated and went to NL instead of following Bae immediately (it can still travel between the two places so it’s not just a case of our world not having magic, though I suppose maybe, until the name triggered it, that magic wasn’t in our world and then the shadow somehow was able to travel back and forth between a world like ours and Neverland but again – we need shadow history to fully explain this because if it did come from Rumple / the vortex / etc. then why didn’t it go straight to Bae and why was it terrorizing the Lost Boys in a different realm?)
*head is spinning but I like the brainstorming along these lines! Nice idea!*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantThanks Obisgirl for addressing this!
Some of us see both but I agree, head-to-head shipping can get nasty. While I have a preference in that particular shipping war, I can see why others are passionate for the other side of it.
We are all Oncers and should respect each other.
Cheering when something happens for your favorite character / ship / etc is one thing. Celebrating that other ships are now sunk or seemingly sunk or probably won’t happen isn’t necessary.
IE: “Yay SWANFIRE feels!” is fine. Enjoy your moment by all means, I’m happy that you got something to be happy to go off of to keep you happy-ish for awhile (*passes out cookies for SwanFire feels after this ep*).
On the other hand: “Finally CaptainSwan is dead, haha” is mean and insulting to those who ship it. One is celebrating something you love and the other is mocking the pain of fellow Oncers and celebrating the fact that somebody else didn’t get what they wanted while you did. There is a difference.
This isn’t a competition to see who gets what they want. The only ones who have invested interest in any kind of competition are Neal & Hook. We do not “win” anything by picking the “right” ship other than avoiding heartache later on. Somebody somewhere will be happy about it, and heaven forbid the tides turn and the people saying “Deal with it” right now should have to not only dish it out but take it too.
It’s good that we are all passionate about the show and we’re never going to all love or hate the same things (although I think we can mostly agree on hating Tamara right now…) but we should still be respectful of each other. I can’t count the number of times after last week’s episode I saw stuff directed at CS shippers saying “SF is canon. Deal with it” (Sure SF is canon. Doesn’t mean there isn’t merit in the parallels they drew back in Tallahassee, nor does it negate any future potential now the road.)
There is no need to laugh at fellow shippers pain. The other night it was directed at CaptainSwan and I get that, but I would hope nobody was cheering that Gremma was over when Graham died, or mocking WoodenSwan people when August was de-aged. It crushed people of those fandoms and removed 2 of the potential Emma pairings but because it wasn’t one of the main 2 that are particularly viable at the moment, that kind of behavior either wasn’t happening or I just never saw it. I would like to think that had Neal died for real (I so don’t see that happening) that there wouldn’t have been CaptainSwan people shouting “finally he’s out of the way! so glad he died!”…just…no. Firstly that’s not the way to get the ship you want, and secondly somebody (a lot in that particular example) loves the character and the pairing and would be devastated. Why rub that in, regardless of the ship?
Not all shippers are mean or nasty about stuff and some of us (myself included) do see the potential in both SwanFire & CaptainSwan, even if we do have a preference but some of the stuff I’ve seen this week is sickening.The OUAT fandom is a family and it usually feels like a pretty darn good one. Right now it feels like we’re all in Kindergarten.
To each their own, enjoy the moments that give you something to root for whomever you chose (and whatever pairing you chose), just don’t dance around on everybody else’s toes. Celebrate the stuff you love. Don’t celebrate others not getting what they want.
“We must agree to disagree without being disagreeable.” – One of the things I love about this fandom, and these forums especially, is the discussions that we have about every angle of the show. We can try til we’re blue in the face to convince people to like what we like but at the end of the day, we’re a bunch of passionate fans analyzing a show we love, and all rooting for different outcomes. That’s what a fandom is and it’s usually a fun thing to be a part of. Let’s keep it that way.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@HappyEndings wrote:
You know I got to thinking about the 3rd bean, why would they need Hook’s ship if they have the 3rd bean, unless that Black Diamond is replaced with the 3rd bean instead or does Tamara/Owen still have the 3rd bean.
The 1st bean was used on Bae
The 2nd bean is used to leave SB with Herny
The 3rd bean ?Question: What was Grumpy’s orginal name ❓
Grumpy’s name was Dreamy.
3rd bean: It looks like GOAT will use 1 to take Henry so the 3rd one would be for everybody else which is where Hook's ship comes in – easier / safer to transport everyone all together on a ship. Plus I'm sure Hook would like to have his ship if they go to Neverland.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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