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MysteryKat25Participant
Thanks for all your comments Jasmine! Ranting and preaching to the choir is having the desired effect I think – we’re all bonding over the good stuff and keeping each other sane!
I’ve been perusing the #CaptainSwan hashtag on twitter and finding some other good stuff as well. Just noticed this video too (not that I entirely trust the ABC promo department, especially since this was to welcome us back from the midseason finale before Neal appeared in present day but I do have hope – even if they did introduce Hook as a huge villain originally *smacks forehead* silly people, assuming the writers will follow the original stories haha).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fa8IT1_zd2A (Promo about the show & it’s couples..I spy CaptainSwan…)
Come to think of Hook’s original promo didn’t they describe him as a CHARMING swashbuckler? (perhaps it was a subtle hint that Emma will find “her” prince charming and that he is in fact one Mr. Killian Jones aka Captain Hook?? (OK I might be grasping at straws here, but at the moment I’ll take anything I can get!!)
I realllly want to know what Killian was like pre-Milah / Neverland. I want to know the man and not just the pirate facade.
I remember when some were saying that Emma needed a man more like her father, a shepherd not a pirate. *Cough* Dread Pirate Roberts *cough* (who doesn’t love Westley??) – I’ve said all along Hook is a cross between Captain Jack Sparrow & Westley in his Dread Pirate Roberts days – now I want to see just Westley, err…Killian – especially if there are any parallels to Charming!
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@Shack1212 wrote:
Not sure if Neverland only wants boys. The shadow took Wendy in the first place after all. The only explanation for that if they were really targeting boys, is if it was planned ahead of time that Wendy would want to go back and this would lead to Bae’s sacrifice.
The shadow wanting a boy is key in some way however.
I agree – it had no problem taking Wendy the first time and she was gone for at least long enough for Bae to worry he’d never see her again. I wonder what actually happened while she was there.
Typically the Lost Boys WANT Wendy to stay with them, so it’s weird that they wanted a boy and I think it may have been a setup to get Bae somehow. If the shadow pan got information out of Wendy and/or observed that Bae was the one that didn’t want her to go with it etc etc maybe it knew that Bae would be the one to go and not John or Michael so they swapped Wendy for him.
It’s all a very strange twist and I’m curious to see how it plays out.
Right now I want to believe Wendy but who knows, maybe she did what she did to protect her brothers and wasn’t as genuine with Bae / was manipulating him into sacrificing himself. I don’t WANT to believe that, but given the poor kid’s track record with anybody he cares about….
Hard to trust any character at just their word on this show, even if you want to believe what they’re saying. Harder still when they’re new, but I would like to think that Wendy is sincere. If she did play him it was to save her brothers but I still wouldn’t be too happy.
I’m still bothered by the fact it didn’t want to keep her though. Traditionally the Lost Boys want a mother, someone to sing for them and tell them stories and sew their clothes. They’re happy to have a female presence and look up to her. Seems odd if they’re all crying for their mothers that the shadow pan doesn’t try to appease them by keeping a girl there to take care of them.
I’m more and more convinced that the shadow is trying to force its hand-selected “friends” to not abandon him, which leads back to the might be a darker part of Bae theory since he has major abandonment issues (though I don’t see him leaving Wendy so easily except for a good cause – although if it was shadow Bae and it wanted its body back or something weird like that then maybe I guess, but I would think it would just try to convince Bae to come along and save/join Wendy, not leave her so who knows.)
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
GOAT thinks they are serving a higher purpose, they honestly think what the Home Office asks them to do is the right and noble thing. So like so many villains on this show, I don’t think we can just flat out call evil or crazy. (Just give me Tamara’s story already!)
I wanted Cora’s backstory as much as I despised her but I’m not sure I really want to watch Tamara’s unless it’s extremely compelling. The last time we got an episode that had flashbacks for her it really wasn’t one of my faves.
The only reason I’d want to see Tamara’s story is to wrap it up and get rid of her.
Most of the time, knowing how these writers are, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and say wait for the story so we at least understand where they’re coming from whether we like their reasoning or not but with her, ugh I’m just ready for her to be gone!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantVery good questions KFChimera and great point about the characters perception versus ours. After all, a villain doesn’t think of himself as the villain, but the hero wrongfully accused.
It makes sense if they consider magic a plague and want it contained though I still have trouble understanding how they are ok with taking out all the other non-magical people in the town without a 2nd thought.
Regina is the worst possible magic ambassador that’s for sure (well, other than Rumple of course but he can contain himself *most* of the time. Regina uses magic just to search through a purse for crying out loud! Addict much?)
I’m definitely curious about who else might be a part of the Home Office as somebody important is likely calling the shots. I seriously doubt some nobody we’ve never heard of is in charge.
The bean could be going anywhere, that is true. We've seen it travel to a few places now and in general they seem to go wherever the person is thinking of when they throw it / jump into it. If it's just thinking and depends on the thrower, then Tamara could have sent Neal anywhere and/or specifically thought of the EF but it could also be that that's what NEAL thought of since it was his home long ago. If they think of somewhere else to go when they take Henry, who knows where they're going! I think the concensus has mostly been NL just because we know the Jolly Roger should be able to get back there but that begs the question of how as well. Do they have the 3rd bean? And the ship is a safer way to transport so many people? Does somebody overhear where GOAT are going? AHH so many questions!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
Interesting. And, ah, “the Others.” S3 of LOST was my favorite because of all the OTHERness (Ben Linus was my Rumple before Rumple was my Rumple).
Good way of putting it!
I remember when I first watched it last year (I’ve been through Lost twice now, in short bursts of time since the 1st OUAT winter hiatus) that Ben would make me so angry sometimes but was oddly compelling (and now I adore Michael Emerson too – I watch Person of Interest as well where he is essentially the good twin of the two! lol).
By the end of Lost I found myself oddly OK with Ben, to the point where he’s one of my favorite characters even though people think I’m nuts til they’ve seen the whole thing but there’s just something about him! His journey was a long one though and that was without magic (ok a little cause that island was weird but not Rumple-like magic at least).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI completely agree TheGoldenKey! So many awesome possibilities and I could see her being Jane or Tink (Tink would definitely be awesome to see!)
I always felt so bad for Tink in “Hook” – she spent forever loving Peter knowing that he would always gravitate back to Wendy (and her granddaughter, whom he married in that version).
Tink has one of my favorite lines ever in “Hook” – “You know that place between sleep and awake, the place where you still remember dreaming? That’s where I’ll always love you, Peter. That’s where I’ll be waiting.”
I hope if we see Tink that she’s awesome. There are so many possible ways to approach that character!
The Home Office has gotten rather dark hasn’t it? I get them being upset but it better be something huge that set off the people who are running things if they’re OKing all this stuff & giving the orders!
I sympathized with Owen but when he turned into Greg he did get rather creepy didn’t he?! I like Ethan Embry too but he does kinda weird me out as Greg a little. Kinda glad we’re not supposed to like him very much. At least the other villains are compelling. I’m ready for GOAT to get out already.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantJust wanted to remind everyone of another video that is keeping me sane right now along with the one Jasmine posted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GqfKYS-gAFk Tangled CaptainSwan Style 😀
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantThanks for the link Jasmine and ditto the sentiments regarding Obisgirl as our official cheerleader!
As I said somewhere (and I’m getting all discombobulated trying to remember where at this point), it reminds me of Lost in the sense that Kate was with Sawyer pretty early on and for awhile and then ends up with Jack even though they barely had any positive screentime other than being jealous once in awhile and having a few cute moments early on before being on opposite sides a lot of times. So perhaps SwanFire having some of those moments now means that it won’t be endgame down the line.
I agree with the idea that perhaps Emma will think him dead for awhile, long enough to move on again (just like after Graham) and that she’ll probably have finally opened up to Hook around the time that Neal comes back into the picture and she may be torn at that point.
Honestly I thought that’s what would happen when Tamara first entered the picture as Neal’s fiancee, that Emma would move on to Hook, something would break up Neal & Tamara, and then there’d be a real triangle but we haven’t had any of that. Figures they’d have her first love look like he was dead instead of having her actually choose and/or have to address the past before actually choosing.
There’s no way Emma would have let him off the hook for all of that so easily. She was clearly still hurt by everything that happened but she doesn’t just forget and forgive, it takes her awhile. (And even if you can remember caring about someone way back when, things change over the years and when you finally see that things have changed and they’re not what you thought they were and idyllicizing in your mind for years, it wears off and you move on. SwanFire didn’t get to address their stuff or have a real go of it now to actually see if it worked. Which means, everything that happened last night was the buildup in their minds of how things should have gone if they picked up where they left off ages ago but without making any significant progress regarding the things that kept them apart before. Get that in order and I’ll think about it. Otherwise Hook is still my choice!
The only thing I really don’t feel good about is all the “fate” “destiny” stuff they keep throwing around, along with characters like Rumple & Henry blatantly shipping it. I feel like they’re telling us that if Rumple or Henry wants it then it has to happen and I just don’t see why that’s the case. The use of those words throws me a bit too but I’m hoping that over the years of the show they change things up a bit. After all, Belle says she chooses her own fate, so why can’t Emma? She’s been through so much from everybody else manipulating her her entire life, Hook offers a freedom that nobody else can.
Depending on how he is with Bae when we see that (so excited!) and the lost boys (though not necessarily the sinister ones…maybe the crying ones), he could be very good with Henry if given the chance. I think he’ll drop the facade he’s had up if he spends enough time around Emma and the Charmings, working with them and not constantly worrying about being betrayed (Emma, do not tie him up again and leave him somewhere! He WANTS to work with you, trust him!), then he might become the Killian he once was.
I hope we find out what he was like before he was a pirate – wonder if he had a story similar to Bae’s where he was found by somebody – Davey Jones perhaps?. He might actually be very good with children and I don’t see him begging Emma to go away with him and leave Henry. He saw how hard she fought to get back to her son once and he helped her before she locked him up. He also knows what happened to the last woman who he convinced to run away with him. I don’t think he wants to repeat history.
If he can get in with the good guys and not feel like he’s going to be betrayed but at least heard out by people (they know he wants to kill Rumple but nobody’s exactly trying to see it from his point of view – Emma’s the only one who’s seen a softer side of him, namely pointing out the tattoo), then maybe just maybe he can keep his sense of adventure but put it to good use, protecting Emma and her loved ones and fighting alongside her (they DO make a good team after all!).
As upset as Henry might be to begin with (he’s still a kid right now, he may be older when endgame comes around) he may actually learn to enjoy Hook’s company. Henry liked swordfighting with Charming and Neal, I bet he would enjoy learning a thing or two from a pirate. It would be kinda cool if they got along, especially if Hook & Bae had a nicer relationship back in Neverland.
Hoping that Henry grows up a bit and gets over his everything is black or white thing. Look at his family: how can he NOT see shades of grey in everyone by this point? Emma lied to him once and suddenly she was as bad as Regina? (Whom he still loves and believes in every time she wants to change and then gets hurt again I might add). Perhaps Emma CAN and WILL choose her own fate but keep everybody in Henry’s life and he’ll grow up and realize that his dysfunctional family loves him and that will be enough (it’s not enough for a kid though).
I really do love young Bae with Morraine and now Wendy so perhaps there’s somebody that would be good for him that we just haven’t met yet. He may be off who knows where for awhile and find himself torn too, missing Emma and trying to get back to her but also feeling close to someone else. I could totally see that happening (especially since he was so close to finding her again and then went off with Tamara of all people and had no problem introducing her to Emma as his fiancee and rubbing it in her face that she was jealous but he was STILL going to marry Tamara and that Tamara couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the bad stuff happening until she oh I don’t know, TRIED TO KILL HIM!)
*deep breath* Bring on CaptainSwan!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
It would tie up a lot of loose ends if it was the squid ink from Neverland and both Rumple and Regina needed it. It would tie up:
1) The squid ink story
2) The certain mermaid comment
3) The history of Jefferson and Regina (at least some of it)
4) If Rumple went to NL and Bae found out, it’s the perfect reason for why Bae would flee back to our world.Agreed on all counts! Now we just have to figure out Rumple got there and when in the timeline as well. If he took him til 1991 or so (I think that’s the date it was decided Bae came here), why did it take him so long?
There’s also the question of when/how did Regina solve her mermaid problem since she & Rumple weren’t exactly on good terms after her speech about Belle…
It would tie up the comment from Hook though who seemed to know that Bae wanted to stay hidden from Rumple and that it wasn’t just an offhand comment like “wouldnt’ anybody?” kind of thing. He genuinely seemed to know something which ties back to his earlier comments about the Lost Boys in Tallahassee. I think Hook too has a soft spot for children (good ones at least – sinister 16 year olds that could be focused on hurting him / his new friend Bae could be another story entirely lol). I like the idea of twisting it around though.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantTheGoldenKey – I love the idea that she is Jane! When I realized the girl playing Wendy was 19 I agree that we’ll see her aged up a bit and it would make sense that by the time Bae comes back (it may take him awhile to save the Lost Boys and learn to travel back and forth, befriend Tink etc etc, who knows) that she would be older and have a daughter of her own.
I don’t want Tamara to be related to anybody! OK, OK, she probably has to be and it’s looking likely that it’s Robin Hood & Marian but I’m having a hard time believing somebody so awesome has such a rotten kid! (Also who is that woman in the picture with Tamara?)
I’m on the fence about Wendy starting the home office – it does connect especially since this was the first episode we saw her in and she might be jaded about magic after seeing the shadow pan reject her and try to take her brothers, eventually taking Bae away from her but then again if he manages to come back then why would she be so bitter about magic? Although at that point I guess it could be that he’s still so young and she’s had to grow up without him, but then I would think she’d be jealous of Jane getting to know him then and he apparently broke ties with the Darling family at some point (perhaps after seeing that Wendy grew up) because he was off on his own and pursuing Emma after that so no more Wendy (or Wendy’s daughter, granddaughter etc etc).
I always loved Bae with Morraine and now with Wendy so I kinda wish he somehow had stayed there for a bit longer / had some connection to her in some way. At one point I wondered if maybe he was drawn to Wendy because she reminded him of Morraine and was possibly a descendant of hers but he didn’t exactly get a lot of time to explore that angle either so it’s probably nothing even though we saw her and she was named twice / was a close friend of his.
The Home Office certainly sounds very snobby against magic and has recruited various people along the way but it does come across as very cult like so I hope the Darlings weren’t involved at all and that Bae sacrificing himself for them didn’t change them toooo much to where they’d be willing to kill a whole town of innocent people just to get rid of magic (at least Henry only wanted to blow up a well! The kid seems sane now somehow lol).
I’m not giving up on the NealFire Pan theory yet though I wish he’d gotten more time with Wendy / her daughter etc etc if he is in fact Peter Pan. It feels disjointed somehow in that he lost track of all of them, and meanwhile this Home Office is running around being the Anti-Magic Police Squad.
Bae doesn’t like magic for obvious reasons but he would never condone what they’re trying to do now and neither would Henry. If the Home Office was created by characters we know and love, I hope there’s a plausible explanation as to why they went so dark and are now willing to do horrible things. If it’s been around since the time of the Darling children then it may have trickled down through the generations and gotten really ugly in the last 100 years, not to mention new recruits who are clearly psychotic, but whoever is in charge and giving the orders not only recruited the psychopaths but is giving them the order to move up the plan to use the failsafe and destroy SB so somebody high up is a little nuts too…
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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