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MysteryKat25Participant
So glad I finally hit on a theory that people like! I was just rambling on about stuff and then it hit me that it would totally make sense!
As for the timeline of it all, we know that Rumple knows a thing or two about mermaids since he mentioned them with regards to the squid ink so surely he encountered some when he went to get that.
Regina also knows his power with mermaids because she went to him in Skin Deep for the sole purpose of asking for his help with a certain mermaid problem she was having.
Since mermaids are in Mermaids Lagoon in Neverland, it is a logical magical realm for him to have gone to in order to get some to probably write the curse with, as well as put on the parchment in his cell further down the line.
We know it took him a long time to get everything into motion and it certainly took ages to find the right person and train them so they could enact the curse so he could have gotten the squid ink at any point along the way.
What do you want to bet that if Rumple DID go to Neverland at some point that he involved Jefferson somehow? It would be a great fill in the gaps someday episode when SS has a little bit of time. We’ve already SEEN Rumple employ Jefferson to try to get different things for him from other realms, why not take him to Neverland? Does Neverland have a door or is it strictly by bean portal? In which case how did Rumple get to Neverland cause it obviously wasn’t by bean or he would have just gone after Bae – plus the beans are all gone. Hmm….tiny issue. Any ideas?
I really like the idea that that’s what causes Bae to flee from Neverland! I’m thinking he’ll do something to free the Lost Boys who want out, spend at least some time as a pirate, and if he IS close to Hook at this point at least (he’s still 14 remember, he could easily idolize Hook at 14 and then grow up and not like him much if that’s the case – we still don’t really know), he would probably explain that he is leaving and here’s why which would explain why Hook made the comment about Rumple’s son not wanting to be found!
EUREKA! I think we’re all onto something BIG and can I just say that I love that it builds on the mermaid mythology since it’s being hinted at more and more and we’re getting Neverland stuff?! 😀
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantGood point RG. I partly think it just worked out that way though just because it’s happened in other episodes. I’m trying to remember which one it was but I remember seeing Barbara Hershey’s name at the beginning of the ep and then didn’t see her until the end (almost forgot about it by the time she showed up…) but I know with Lost etc that was a problem (especially in S6) when it was pretty obvious by the opening credits who would be a surprise had we not read the names.
(This is part of the problem with being obsessed with a show to the point where you know who every actor is by name and actually notice credits at the beginning).
It’s still weird so many names were left off the press release though. Have they been wrong any other episode where they didn’t list somebody?
I know we have the reverse problem sometimes because regulars are always listed but not always seen but I don’t remember an ep where somebody wasn’t listed in the press release. Sometimes they’ve used other character names that don’t give away big reveals but not ignoring them altogether…
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantThanks to all of the above Obisgirl!
Three cheers for Obisgirl for keeping us calm & sane!
*Definitely need to watch Snow Falls & then Tallahassee*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@RumplesGirl wrote:
I had a really great answer for everything you typed Kat and then I hit the wrong button. Bullet point:
–In 204 Rumple yells at Milah for leaving Bae, but she and Hook do not know that Bae has been lost to Rumple as well.
–I think Hook is going to end up being the Hero in the PP story line, along with Bae as a reversed “Peter” while the Pan is the creepy shadow. (still don’t know why he wants boys though)I hate when that happens! *gives cookies*
Thanks, couldn’t remember since it’s been awhile since I watched the Crocodile – I knew he yelled at her for leaving Bae though.
I agree that Hook is going to be a much better figure at least for awhile than people would naturally assume given the way he is traditionally portrayed. I look forward to it!
Still not sure why the shadow from Peter Pan is now this creepy being who steals boys. Very odd.
Usually Wendy is the desired person and her brothers are just there because the Lost Boys want a mother figure but they aren’t trapped and begging to go home to their own mothers. It seemed very odd to me and I wonder if the shadow was actually just trying to force Bae to go along with it, counting on him wanting to save Wendy’s brothers.
On the other side of things, it seems like the shadow is creating its own little family of a sort and doesn’t want anybody to leave him/it. That’s the main link I had to the idea of it being some kind of dark side of Bae in not wanting to be abandoned ever again but that still seems weird too.
Also the shadow can go back and forth but I suppose it would be quite scary to people and hard to make friends with, although Wendy didn’t seem to have a problem with it.
The story of Peter Pan has definitely been dumped on its head! I’m looking forward to exploring more of Neverland to get some answers but I’m definitely expecting a kinder Hook than many are. He may be a pirate and teach Bae to be a pirate but I’m not sure he’s the villain of the story except from Peter / Lost Boys point of view (and since they’re described as “sinister” it may well be them that cause a lot of the problems and not the other way around). They turned other stories upside down like that. After all, to paraphrase Anton since I can’t remember the quote, it’s the victors who write the books. To Peter Pan, I’m sure he is the hero, but in this case…who knows.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantWow you’re right! I totally didn’t notice that MAP weren’t listed either! Hmm….
Does this mean that…*gasp* they’re actually trying to keep SOMETHING under wraps for once?? They’ve never done that before but….wow, a conservatively edited cast list. Interesting!
Now I do know that sometimes people just say don’t bother putting me in the list because then it gives away the surprise (since credits now roll at the beginning of the episodes, including guest-starring). That’s rare these days but I’ve heard of it happening (can’t remember who now or which show grr) but if the surprise is big enough sometimes they say for the good of the reveal blah blah.
That being said I doubt it would happen with that many people so I’m surprised that they’re not listed but it does beg the question of who else isn’t.
I’m not sure if you have to have your name at the beginning to get credit for being in the episode (I would think so and I don’t think it really happens retroactively) so I’m not sure why anybody would actually want to do that or be ok with doing that unless it’s just so massive or a tiny little cameo where they’re seen but not heard – I think you have to have a line of dialogue don’t you? – but it is rather odd given the pictures we’ve seen of MAP that none of them would have lines.
Now wasn’t there some speculation about a stand-in for Mulan and her face being covered because the actress is super busy? Maybe they don’t have lines after all but are seen. Still weird.
And then there’s that new person who wasn’t listed at all either but we know she was cast so I have no idea. Handful of sinister lost boys but none of the rest of these? Last year they were hyping Jamie Dornan like there was no tomorrow!
IF they are keeping things significantly under wraps than I applaud them. Job well done.
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI too wonder what is so special about Happy’s axe or if Greg just meant it’s a dwarf axe and the particular dwarf doesn’t matter. Hmm…
I also agree that Hook is just going with the flow right now and finding out what he can. He does not sound remotely convincing as being 100% on board with their plan. I have a feeling he doubts whether even wiping out SB could take down the Dark One and I don’t think he wants to harm all the innocent people who have done him no wrong. His only target is Rumple or things that would ultimately hurt Rumple (and even then he doesn’t kill anybody: he saved the fish guy by kicking him into the water, he rescued Aurora’s heart only after having to use it as the ace up his sleeve to survive Cora, and yes he shot Belle (grr) but he knew that Rumple would heal her and hopefully soon she’ll get her memory back *fingers crossed*)
I really don’t see him being on board with mass murders like say, Regina or Rumple who are so focused on the specific thing that they want (usually a person – poor Bae and now Henry have all of that weight on their shoulders) that they don’t care what they have to do or who they have to wipe out to get them in their lives (silly villains, thinking people will love you if you kill everyone they love).
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI agree that Rumple has a soft spot for children. I don’t think he’d ever get so dark as to try to harm a whole group of them. Unicorns were bad enough, that would just destroy him completely.
One of the things that’s been bugging me, especially since Bae apparently gives Hook his real name is that we know at some point Bae doesn’t want to be found by Rumple (and Baelfire sticks out like a sore thumb if anybody asks have you seen him? lol), so perhaps Hook does know his story and helps hide / protect Bae from Rumple.
Granted if he hadn’t done that then the curse would never have needed to happen because Bae didn’t stay for too long in a land without magic if he sacrificed himself for the Darling children and went to Neverland.
The timelines are the only thing bugging me right now (and I’m sure spinning heads everywhere!). We know that Rumple spoke with the Blue Fairy and learned that essentially the only way to find Bae was to create a curse. We also know that Bae was only in our world for 6 months + a few weeks with the Darling family and then sometime around then Rumple killed Milah and Hook went to Neverland. All of that happened in a short amount of time and then Rumple spent ages creating the curse he fully believed he needed in order to get to Bae.
Ooo! Ooo! What if….Rumple DID go to Neverland but he wasn’t actually LOOKING for Bae? He may have needed something from there (like say, squid ink? Which apparently only Rumple & mermaids! can get?) and maybe that is when Bae changed his name, hid from his father, and possibly got the help of Captain Hook!
I suppose it could be a bit like in “Hook” where Captain Hook becomes like a father to young Jack for a bit, putting on a baseball game for him when his father never went to his games etc etc, just on a longer, bigger scale.
Bae was always ready and willing to fight in the Ogre Wars, it was Rumple who didn’t want him to. I think Bae is a lot like Milah in enjoying stuff like that so I could see him latching on to the pirate lifestyle for a bit, and he certainly keeps his thieving skills later in life, whether he remains friendly with Hook or not.
Moderator’s Edit: Spoiler tag around something revealed in a promo for next week in a non-spoiler thread. Thanks–RG
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantI mentioned the press release in another thread a second ago but it does appear that Hook at least knows who Bae is, whether that’s mutual or not. Should be interesting to see how their relationship evolves (I think he’ll teach Bae how to be a pirate, swordfight, drive the ship etc. before things turn).
Interesting casting for Felix, I still see him as more a temporary leader than Peter but we’ll have to see.
I was surprised by the cast listing as well…happy to see the dwarfs but I fully expected Dr. Whale to be back for 2 reasons: 1) We saw him ever so briefly so why bring him back for just the one short scene? (I suppose more could have been cut but sheesh!) and 2) the science vs. magic debate – he should be involved with that big time.
As for the Robin Hood and Marian thing – I coulda sworn we read somewhere that they were going to be a part of the last 4 eps and we haven’t seen or heard anything – I have a feeling they’ll just be mentioned somewhere. Still hate the idea that Tamara is somehow related to RH as I love him and don’t want to have to hate his daughter but she is psychotic no matter who she’s related to so if I must, I must!
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25ParticipantWhen Rumple was getting ready to kill Milah didn’t he rant about her leaving Bae and mention something happening to him? I haven’t had time to rewatch this season even though I love that ep so haven’t seen it in awhile. I feel like he said something about Bae being gone though so Hook may have known at the time.
Also there was a press release today stating that in the finale, “Hook discovers his connection to a young Bae after he rescues him from the sea and soon realizes that the Lost Boys are in hot pursuit of the boy” so it sounds to me like the name does ring a bell.
Full press release found here: http://www.onceuponafans.com/apps/blog/show/26187587-and-straight-on-till-morning-abc-press-release
It is interesting that Bae keeps using his real name so I wonder when he changes it. I’m still on board with the: takes on the shadow, becomes the pan, frees the children, escapes to our world and needs a name that doesn’t stick out like a sore thumb if at this point he is hiding from Rumple (Baelfire is too easy to track, we don’t know for sure if he ever goes by Peter Pan yet but either wold be silly in our world hence eventually changing whatever his name is to Neal).
Young Bae I adore you but you are so trusting with the giving of names. Do you know who your father is??
Hoping based on the promos and my gut instinct from Tallahassee that Hook will take Bae under his wing for a bit, teach him the ropes (even if that means how to be a pirate for awhile) etc etc, probably because of the connection to Milah. He may hate Rumple and Bae is his son but he’s also part Milah and Hook couldn’t hurt the shawl, I don’t see him going after the boy right away unless he just flips out and blames him for Rumple going off the deep end and attacking him and Milah. Bae should be immune for a bit I would think (plus he has to learn to drive the ship, swordfight etc, so they may start out on the same side).
I second the notion that Neal conveniently was removed from the scene when Hook might start interacting with the main characters again. I want to know what their current relationship is now! We didn’t get much at all with Manhattan other than that NealFire was fine with tying Hook up but since they’re both essentially pirates that may not have any underlying theme to their relationship at all (oh silly pirates). Bae learning to be a pirate from Hook though totally explains why Neal was a thief. (Not that young Bae wasn’t to a degree but it was more food for a starving boy, not watches).
Anybody else thinking it’s the roundabout thing like in Lost with Sawyer teaching Cassidy (ooo connection!) to con, who then teaches Kate to con, who then is involved with Sawyer for a bit – and should have stayed that way grrrrr, rant for another day and another show though in this case it would be Hook teaching Bae to be a pirate, who then becomes a regular thief and helps teach Emma how to do so who may eventually be somehow involved with Hook but it will probably end up being another Lost thing where she goes back to the other guy she had major issues with before and was even engaged to for like…half an episode vs the seasons with the other guy she was better suited for ugh! (Though to be fair, I enjoy SwanFire MUCH more than I ever liked Jate so it has that going for it. I'm a Skater for life though. <3 Sawyer). I would hope that OUAT isn’t predictable in the sense that it follows Lost to a T and I don’t want to give up on my first choice of pairings anytime soon, especially based on something like that, but perhaps that link will give SwanFire people something to hold on to in their time of mixed emotions after the last ep *passes out cookies*
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
MysteryKat25Participant@KFChimera wrote:
The writers set up the parallel in Tallahassee so CS isn’t just a fan invention out of nowhere. There are clues and I really think there will be more to come on that front pretty soon. It’s unfortunate that fan to fan we can’t be a bit nicer and sensitive that people like different things but for every fan reaction there’s an equal and opposite fan reaction I suppose.
At some point, the writers will have to disappoint one faction of fans or another, but I really do have faith they’ll give us enough new storyline that we change our minds about what we think we want when it happens. (Perhaps Wendy will be a factor for Neal? Ariel for Hook? Harem for Emma?)
This a million times this! I was so sick last night seeing people jumping for joy that “CaptainSwan is dead” and seeing posts on twitter saying #SwanFireIsCanon #DealWithIt – for one thing it’s rude to fellow Oncers and for another it’s not just some fabrication in our minds!
I hate to use SwanQueen as an example because there is such a huge fanbase for that but it’s the easiest to follow with this example. SQ is a fan design because to this point, we have only ever seen both Emma and Regina in relationships with men. We have nothing that has been shown to us to suggest otherwise and they are still enemies most of the time. That being said some people DO see something there and it’s their right to ship whatever they want.
CaptainSwan DID have those moments in Tallahassee. In fact, the fact that Neal was the flashback tells me that that was Emma’s past impacting her present / future, clearly causing her to have major trust issues but even telling Hook that she wanted to trust him and couldn’t risk being wrong because of her past! It’s WHY she left him there in the first place. Neal was shown to be the past that she clearly needs to still deal with but it was still the past, just like everybody else on the show has had a past with someone else that has impacted their present / future. Hook needs to deal with his too – he’s still out for revenge on Milah’s behalf after all this time!
Hook and Emma are kindred spirits. They are both wounded souls who need to lean on each other and hopefully at some point they bring out the best in each other and the ability to love again. I know some were excited that Emma reminds Neal of Wendy but Hook reminded Emma of Neal only in a more positive light – ie: Hook did not leave Emma in jail or listen to what Pinocchio told him to do, nor would he have ever left her as he spelled out when she was in Rumple’s jail cell.
“A man unwilling to fight for what he wants deserves what he gets.” – that quote cannot be for nothing, nor can it just be a taunt to Rumple. It’s Hook’s way of life and Emma is the only person that has crossed him that he hasn’t completely betrayed so far. He never goes out for revenge against her, going so far as to ensure her friend Aurora is actually safe the whole time, I still swear he threw that swordfight but put on a good show (please have a line about that at some point) and only worked with Cora because he absolutely had to (thanks Emma for leaving him there to be cornered by her – he did try to kill her before she teleported out and then his life was on the line before the Aurora heart stuff but he protected it at least).
It’s just so frustrating to see so many negative things said when they clearly did parallel it all for a reason (not to mention that BOTH sides of the triangle have parallels to Snowing, whether others want to see it or not, they did set it up for a reason – I also love the parallels to Tangled, I really really do *will have to watch the CaptainSwan Tangled trailer on repeat over the summer (sniff)*
We are all Oncers, and sometimes our ships overlap or our favorite characters do something stupid but we love what we love and should be respectful of those that love something else, even if it’s against what we like. Can’t we all get along and ENJOY the show we love? Please?
Keeper of Hook's Trenchcoat.
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