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We’ve had the opportunity to see Emma in every stage of possibility with Neal this season, and I have to think that’s for a reason.
That’s a really interesting observation, and you’re totally right, since the start of S3, Emma’s been through the gamut of potential realities for her life where Neal is concerned.
But then, they are still trying to tell it with subtext. They bothered trying to tell it that way in 3×19. Why? WHY lay out that Snow/Emma parallel with Zelena, of how terrible it would be for Snow wandering town looking for (dead) Charming and having no idea where he’d gone or what he’d given up in the process? Why sprinkle all of those pieces of story throughout 3×19 if this story is finished?
It is rather curious that if you look below the surface, Neal and SF IS still part of the story, despite the fact that at face value, he’s been largely relegated to the past. It’s all very confusing! What SHENANIGANS are they up to?!
One thing I was thinking about today was that quote from A&E about how they’re gonna give us a story that we never even knew we wanted in the last couple of eps. That sounds like a story that one might describe as being “bold”, and apparently Neal is meant to be a part of the “bold” story line.
I’ve also been wondering what role Henry might play in the finale, whether it might play into him being a special kid just like the Snowflake, and so maybe whatever Zelena thinks the Snowflake is capable of, Henry’s capable of it too, and it might be interesting if that somehow played into Neal coming back, so we’d have Neal/Henry resurrection stuff to go along with the Rumple/Neal resurrection stuff. Haven’t thought it through enough to come up with any sort of cohesive theory, I’m just saying, the plays on the themes might be something they’d work with. They do love their “cycles of abandonment in the Stiltskin clan” stuff, and they’d been working towards that with Neal and Henry quite nicely, (before they screwed it up) but maybe they decided it was happening too easily. So maybe the way to bring that storyline to its optimistic conclusion, they wanted to make HENRY the one who takes an action that brings him and his father back together and flips the curse of the Stiltskin men on its head for good. It’s not like they’ll have another generation of that family to add more layers to this story with, so they’ve gotta go all out with Neal and Henry to get that family curse resolved FOR THE BETTER.
MRJ should always be photographed holding children. *ovary explosion*
THIS! Good Lord!
[adrotate group="5"]If that’s revealed to be the case, then this story line will annoy me less, because there will be a consequence for them. The fact that a consequence wasn’t even alluded to in the ep where the thing happened doesn’t instill me with confidence though. If, in 320, during the fight with Zelena and the Monkey in the barn, Charming gets seriously injured and is lying there in crazy pain, unable to get up, and we see Snow in crazy sudden pain in the hospital, I’d be happy to see that.
Something else we know from WL is that there are beings out there who get really pissed when people go on living when they’re not supposed to. I’d love to see Nyx (or another being like her, I’ve been thinking of her like one of the Fates, so perhaps there are others) putting the smackdown on Snowing, but instead of “you must return the water” it’s “you must return that half of Snow’s heart”.
We’ll just have to agree to disgree, because the whole situation just feels contrived and contradictory to me.
Couple of things I forgot to mention in my last post, (forgive me, MRJ with a baby melted my brain)…
I am SO with all of you who are baffled by A&E saying that 3B is more fun. Apart from Regina’s redemption progress, there hasn’t been a whole lot for anyone to be optimistic about, frankly, the story as a whole is oppressive and depressing. And you could say that Zelena has been “fun” if you mean that she’s campy, scene eating goodness, but she hasn’t brought any optimism to the show that could be classed as fun and uplifting. So, yeah, I’m not sure where they get off saying that they’ve made 3B more light and fun than 3A.
And I’ve only listened to the first half of this weeks main podcast thus far, only heard up to the end of the FTL discussion, and just wanna saying thank you to RG for having stepped in for the discussion of the Curse scene. I listen to various podcasts, and none have really spoken about the ridiculousness of that whole situation, so I’m glad our side of the argument got a look in on this podcast. *COOKIES for RG*
I’m pretty sure time was frozen in Oz. The Curse seems to have affected almost every land by keeping it frozen: Wonderland, Fictional London, Storybrooke, The EF
Yeah, they’ve implied in interviews that the Curse affected ALL lands, I think what they mean is that time stopped in all lands. On OUATinWL, Ana was in WL during the Curse years, Will was in SB, but they were still the same age as each other, like they had been when they were together in FTL and then in WL back in the pre-Curse days. And Alice was in Fictional Victorian England and was still the same age as Will when they started the present day WL story. So, basically, time just froze in all the magical/fictional lands during the time of the Curse, which is why Zelena isn’t older even if she spent the Curse years in Oz.
As far as SQ goes, I’m one of the people who doesn’t believe that it has the basis to be a canon romantic relationship. I do agree that in the real world, sexuality can be a fluid thing, and for some people that absolutely means they’re bi. I don’t deny that sexuality is open to all sorts of different definitions, and over a person’s lifetime, that can evolve, and people can be gay, straight, bi, transgender, whatever, and there are people who maybe wouldn’t classify themselves as one thing rather than another, they’re just somewhere along the sectrum. And all of that is 100% fine. Honestly, as long as a person is happy in who they are and is having healthy relationships that don’t involve any kind of abuse, people can be with whoever they please because being happy and finding love is really all that matters at the end of the day.
But if any show were to tell a story of two women who have only ever been with men, (and I feel like this far into the show, if either of them had been with women before, it would have at least been hinted at by now if it was an aspect of their personality they were planning to explore more at some point in future, as opposed to them being repeatedly portrayed as being with men), both realising at the same point in their lives that they were actually bi and wanted to be together, that’s a story that would demand a level of writing that I wouldn’t trust this particular show with. There’s only one writer on staff that I’d be prepared to say could handle such a thing, but this show is, on the whole, a collaborative effort by many writers, so there’s no way that Jane could be given exclusive control over writing everything to do with that relationship. This show so often brushes over the personal, emotional moments, unless they’re necessary to advance the big, twisty PLOT, and a storyline like this, with two people redefining their sexualities and coming to terms with the emotional stakes involved, just wouldn’t be done justice on this show. And because it’d be a halfhearted job, it wouldn’t come across as being believable for a huge chunk of the fanbase. And then we’re back to how people who are already against same sex relationships would have a foothold to nit pick and diss the storyline, which wouldn’t be productive.
As far as SleepingWarrior goes, I’ve never seen it as being reciprocal from Aurora’s standpoint because they’d already established who her true love was. I wouldn’t have believed her being interested in another guy any more than I’d have believed her being interrested in Mulan. I never once thought that Mulan had a thing for Philip, or vice versa. I wasn’t necessarily convinced that Mulan was head over heels for Aurora, but I could see where the SW shippers got the idea, and they hadn’t established any other true love for Mulan, so I wasn’t surprised in the least when it turned out she DID love Aurora, and I was baffled that people thought that Philip was the one she’d been about to confess her love for. I do think it was a cop out if that’s the extent of their same sex relationship storyline for the whole show, but I like to think they’ll do something else and have an actual, open, reciprocated, TL, same sex relationship at some point. I dunno how Jamie’s other show has been doing and if it’s gonna hang around, but I’m sure I read an interview where she said she’d be thrilled to come back and play Mulan again if it were possible. They’ve established now that she’s not straight, so it’d be easy for them to bring her back and give her a girlfriend and a TL story line and just have it be a natural progression of her already existing story line.
If they had the intent and the actor availability to use Glinda and Mulan again in the future in a significant way, and if they did want to tap into apparent Wicked subtext, perhaps THEY would make a good couple. They could explain Mulan’s absence in 3B as her having been off on a mission that was beyond the reach of the Curse. So one day she comes back, finds the Merry Men gone, and on her way to or from the Dark Castle (which was one of their hangouts so she’s looking for them there) she stumbles on Glinda’s door. Mulan’s pure of heart, so she can walk through. She vows to find a way to free Glinda from her banishment, and it ends up being their TLK that breaks that curse, but that can’t happen unless and until Mulan has the guts to take another chance, despite what happened with Aurora, (a callback to her comment to Neal about having faith in love and not letting your fear override that). That’s a fairy tale romance right there, (you could even possibly say it was a metaphor for coming out of the closet, considering Glinda’s been trapped behind a door for so long), and Glinda and Mulan with their strengths combined would have legit power couple potential. (And now I’m sitting here wishing they’d bring both characters back, but I’m relatively confident they don’t actually have immediate future plans for either of them.)
Off the top of my head Daniel? Was Cora going to spilt Regina’s hear and help save him she was the only one that could at that point?
If they wanted heart splitting to be part of heart lore, they could have shown Regina trying it after she’d mastered the art of heart manipulation. Maybe it wouldn’t have worked because she had too many black spots in her heart by then, but they could have introduced the concept to establish that maybe it’s a thing that could be tried. The way they did it just smacks of them needing a plot device so they could cast the Curse and keep Charming despite him actually dying.
The price of the curse was paid they just had enough change left over that both of them could live.
They didn’t have change left over IMO, they just got a full refund of the price, and if you get a full refund for something, that means you didn’t pay for it.
This was to keep the a happy endings Charming was willing to die to protect his family, Snow thought she was killing the one she loved to save their family. Regina didn’t do that before she sacrificed who she loved for selfish reasons that’s why there was a hole in her heart.
If that was their rationale, they should have made it more clear. They were paralleling a bunch of other stuff in this ep, so include a line where Regina warns them, the same way Maleficent warned her, another parallel, so it would have fit. And explain their rationale by having Snow reply that the motivation is different so perhaps the heart hole doesn’t apply. But they didn’t clarify that, so it just feels like another thing that makes this storyline feel contrived.
Interesting framing note – clip 2 opens prominently on a broken wheel. More wheel of time references?
Yeah, someone (thehollow I think) mentioned the wheel in chat right after this clip came out and my brain instantly went to our Wheel Of Time discussions.
Firstly…
OMG MRJ WITH A BABY! HOT MEN WITH BABIES ARE EVEN HOTTER (it’s a law of the universe)! THIS IS NOT A DRILL! OMG THAAAT PHOTOOO! *on the floor**ahem*
Secondly…
I LOVE SHATNER TO THE END OF THE UNIVERSE AND BACK! Glad to have someone of his standing in the Optimism Tent.Thirdly…
runaroundmacy, your description of Emma’s current state is so spot on! Dare I say, it’s like she lost half her heart since Neal died.
