Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
The “angry” must have significance, given the italics. My best guess right now…Jefferson, the Mad Hatter.
[adrotate group="5"]@RumplesGirl wrote:
I agree about 1000%. I never saw Neal leaving Emma as vindictive of cruel on his part. It was necessary and it was incredibly brave of him. My question has always been: what was his other option?? A town of thousands were depending on her. Does your own personal happiness come before the needs of many? I’m a huge Star Trek fan so if I quote Spock: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one. Neal gave up his chance for his happy ending, to be healed with someone he truly loves, to save a town full of people
Self sacrifice is how he rolls. He was willing to go fight in a war for the greater good of many. He gave himself up to the Shadow in place of the Darling boys. And he gave up Tallahassee with Emma for the good of her family and everyone else from their world. It takes strength to be able to do those things.
(contrast that to Hook who left an entire town full of people to die to save his own skin. And yes he did turn around, but I did not read it as him turning around for Emma. He did it because he abandoned Neal once and now he’s dead and he has to honor Baelfire by trying to save Henry’s family and then Henry himself. Hook was very much like Rumple in this. In my head, it had nothing to do with Emma. They understand each other and they are alike, but he did not turn that ship around because of her. And not to say that Hook is without honor, but I just read that scene differntly).
Hook turning his boat around had nothing to do with Emma, unless you count the fact that she’s the one who told him about Nealfire being “dead”. It was when he looked down at the scratched out marks next to the ship’s wheel, and remembered what Bae had said to him right before he’d scratched the marks out, that inspired him to turn the boat around. He did it for Bae. Bae’s greatest wish in life was for a stable, safe, happy family. Hook had torn his family apart by taking Milah away, then he screwed it up again when he couldn’t convince him to stay on the ship with him. Now what remained of Bae’s family – his son, and his father – were in danger in SB. Bae would have wanted them to be saved.
This also plays into why I wouldn’t be surprised if Hook steps away from Emma when Nealfire shows up again, and he’s obviously still in love with her.
What Neal did hurt Emma, I agree. And they need to discuss that, but it was also what needed to happen. People act like Neal isn’t sorry he did it, but he flat out tells Emma at the beach that he hated what he did, that he never forgave himself. He is sorry but like Emma giving up Henry, Neal had to give Emma her best shot at finding her family and her true happy ending which has always been and will always be reuniting with her family.
Ah, delicious parallels!
Henry: You don’t have to be hostile. I know you like me – I can tell. You’re just pushing me away because I make you feel guilty. It’s okay. I know why you gave me away. You wanted to give me my best chance.
Emma: How do you know that?
Henry: Because it’s the same reason Snow White gave you away.
Emma: Listen to me, kid. I’m not in any book. I’m a real person. And I’m no saviour. You were right about one thing, though. I wanted you to have your best chance. But it’s not with me. Come on, let’s go.
If Emma hasn’t already realised that Nealfire did the same thing for her, I’m sure she will at some point. And if Emma and Henry can build a relationship even after she gave him away 10 years previously, and if Emma and her parents can build a relationship even after they gave her away 28 years previously, then the same can happen for Emma and Nealfire.
@KFChimera wrote:
H&K are quite clever with how they answer tweets or questions, and I think the earlier this month tweet that there is a “rhombus” not just a triangle definitely hints at quite a bit of complicated emotional drama to come.
Ah yes, the infamous rhombus, who will that 4th corner be? Gotta be a woman, because I don’t see them throwing a 3rd guy into the mix. I’ve seen suggestions that it’s the memory of Milah. Suggestions that maybe something will heat up between Nealfire and Mulan. My Hookriel shipper self obviously has an opinion. I think the most compelling would be an adult Wendy in present day, though. I could buy her carrying a torch for Nealfire if she’s found a way to keep herself alive this long to search for him. And K&H have said that one of the things Nealfire loved about Emma was that she reminded him of Wendy, so there could be some genuine conflict in him if Wendy pops up and wants to be with him. I doubt he’d be tempted in the slightest by anyone else at this point in time.
The writers could have chosen to have Emma “just know” that Neal was alive, rather than almost fatalistically accept his death (just like Rumpel did of course). They did a few other things too that could be the writers pitching a curve ball for Emma. I like the idea of Emma and Neal having a chance though to work through the issues that brought them together and tore them apart, but this separation suggests that might not happen until after she could fall for someone else.
Yes, I think that having everyone believe him dead has to be for a purpose, and after Nealfire’s declaration of love at the portal, if they ever wanna hook Emma up with someone other than him, they’ve gotta do it when she thinks he’s dead, or it just wouldn’t be believable.
In a way, I saw the Tamara storyline as Neal and Emma’s version of the Abigail/Katherine & Siren storylines. The difference is, Neal did not get that blinding realization moment that he doesn’t love the “Temptress” until after she shot him and Emma came to his rescue. So I’m wondering, does that mean he failed, or does it mean the plot kept him from being able to pass the test, because it is not over yet. If you want SF as endgame, you see it the latter way. Charming’s ordeals were over relatively quickly–in a matter of episodes anyway. There’s always the possibility that the writers mean something with the differences.
Frankly, I dunno how even those who don’t ship SwanFire could consider what happened between them at season’s end to be any kind of closure to their storyline. On the contrary, they finally both admitted to deeper feeling and confusion, and then they were immediately torn apart. No matter who you ship as endgame, that was a blatant storyline setup for those issues to be properly addressed whenever they’re reunited.
@RumplesGirl wrote:
While I do think SF are end game, I think it is first very important that Emma and Neal become people in their own independent right. I don’t want the message of this show to suddenly be: Emma’s abandonment issues are healed by a man! It wouldn’t play out well in my eyes.
And it would be especially unbelievable if her abandonment issues were instantly solved by a man who she feels abandoned her. She’s got a lot to come to terms with in her life as a whole. Baby steps.
Emma needs to learn to trust again and Neal needs to move past Tamara and also mend his relationship with his father. Once they’ve become less damaged people, then they can be together. This is why I’ve always said that CaptainSwan has to happen, he can help Emma open up and again trust before they both realize that the relationship isn’t meant to be. (I stand by this though the portal scene in SSTR really threw this idea for a loop).
Agreed. Though I obviously don’t follow the thought through to the same conclusion that CaptainSwan shippers do, they’re certainly right that the characters are similar and as such they get each other. That’s spelled out in ASOTM when Emma says, “You and I, we understand each other, look out for yourself and you’ll never get hurt, right.” Then she makes her impassioned plea and he (pretends to) buy into it, then the moment everyone else has cleared out he asks, “Why are you really doing this?” because he can read her because he’s the master of the ulterior motive.
I can see them becoming good friends…with benefits for a little while at least…because they’d each see the other as a safe haven of sorts. Emma’s been reeling from the uncertainty over her relationship with Neal, both past and present. When they met up again in Manhattan, she was full of questions about if any of it had even been real, and wondering what was going on in his head. She already knows how Hook’s brain operates, so he’s safe to get close to. From Hook’s perspective, he hasn’t let himself be vulnerable with a woman for over 200 years. Emma already understands him, so he can safely bond with her.
CaptainSwan happening would benefit each of them individually, be an effective transitional relationship to give them each a confidence boost so they can tackle other relationships in the future.
If they do become really good friends, and then that “moment” happens where it escalates to a sexy level, I totally cannot hold Emma at fault for that, coz, well, you’ve all seen him, right.
The biggest argument against SF I see is that people really don’t like Neal. They think he’s a bad guy because of the choices he made (like letting August talk him into sending Emma to jail). Neal and Emma need to have open and honest discussions about that and come to an understanding (though I think Emma in many ways has already forgiven Neal because she got where she was supposed to go, a place she never would have gotten to if Neal hadn’t done what he did) before anyone not on the SF boat accepts them as together.
People who really dislike Nealfire will always dislike Nealfire, no matter what. It’s interesting how different people can see the same story and interpret it in completely opposite ways, but life would be boring if we all saw things the same.
Had Nealfire stayed with her…
He wouldn’t be able to straight up tell her, “Hey, so here’s the deal, we’re both from FTL and came to this world via magical portals, and your parents are Snow White and Prince Charming, (and my dad is Rumplestiltskin, I know he’s not typically thought of as being a dad, but trust me, long story, but trust me), and you’re the “Saviour” who has to go break a Curse that’s imprisoning everyone from our homeland by trapping them without their memories in a town in Maine.” She’d have had him committed, their relationship would have ended, no one in SB would have ever gotten saved, and she never would have found her family. Everyone loses!He couldn’t stay with her and not attempt to tell her, because it would have been a massive and personal secret he’d be keeping from her, and that would have made him miserable, it would have come between them, and if he refused to tell her, it would have driven them apart.
He’d also have had the temptation to not tell her because he was scared of being reunited with his father. And it’s not really fair on Emma to keep her away from her family, just because he’s scared of being reunited with his. That would have eaten away at him every day, and again, it would have driven them apart. By letting her go on her Curse breaking journey, he was leaving himself open for that inevitable father/son reunion he was so dreading.
There was simply no way that they could have remained together at that point and be happy. They were screwed, and he was the only one with all the info, so he had to be the bad guy. He has a history of sacrificing his own wants for the good of others, as shown with the Darlings. Nealfire haters call him a coward for leaving Emma. I’d say it was an impossible choice and a brave move on his part.
@KFChimera wrote:
I really do want there to be more to BF, but at the moment, I don’t think it is going to happen.
Agreed. I’ve come to terms with the fact that all of the BigBadBlueFairy speculation was for naught. *sigh*
Love how you always manage to get exactly the right expressions in screencaps to fit perfectly with your captions. 😆
@KFChimera wrote:
There was never a clear statement that Smee was in NL or in FTL for the record.
The Crocodile “Mr. Gold: No, no. Not about Moe – your captain. Where is he?
Smee: I’ve never seen him in Storybrooke, I swear. For some reason, when the curse hit, it… It didn’t take him.
Mr. Gold: Then, where is he?
Yeah, I know Daniel has mentioned a couple of times in recent podcasts that Smee was in NL when the Curse hit, but we really have no indication of that as far as I can recall. IMO the above quote suggests that Smee was in the same world as Hook (FTL) when the Curse hit, thus his confusion as to why Hook didn’t also end up in SB.
Think I’m the only person who never expected Alice to be Grace’s mother. It’s because I’ve always hoped we’d get Alice meeting Jefferson at the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party, which had to have happened after he’d gone nuts, which happened after he’d left Grace in FTL.
@Gypsy wrote:
Grace’s mother, maybe? Was she his partner when they needed two to go to a world, she would wait in that world until say, Jefferson and Victor returned and then her and Jefferson would leave Victor in his world and retun together to EF? She got stuck in LWC? Could that be what Jefferson meant when he said Grace lost her mother beause of his job?
Nice idea! Hopefully they can get Sebastian back at some point to tell more of Jefferson’s back story.
@RumplesGirl wrote:
@Gypsy wrote:
They said OUATinWL was a stand alone show, so, to so closely intertwine them like that, it would seem that we would have to tune in to OUATinWL to get the backstory of a character that originated on OUAT.
Stand alone yet with crossovers timeline wise and character wise. But they’d have to time travel (I think) in order to make Alice’s sister Jefferson’s wife if Alice herself is set in Victorian England (but somehow the promo shows Granny’s diner). Ow. My head.
I feel like OUATinWL is a giant mystery right now.Oh bugger, a whole new t-word to try and wrap my head around. 😕 Anyway, yes, the OUATinWL promo definitely has what looks to be a scene in Granny’s Diner, so there is obviously gonna be some direct overlapping. And Beverly Elliot hinted on Twitter that she may be making an appearance in the spinoff.
@Demileto wrote:
Remember, we haven’t seen the whole of Pinocchio’s tale on screen, only the very end of it.
This is true. And given that Pinocchio/August is no longer a major player in present day, if they do want to go back and tell this part of Pinocchio’s story, they’ll need to connect it to the major plot somehow. With our heroes currently headed for a magical island, which suggests we’ll get flashbacks to what has previously happened on said island, it would tie everything together nicely if they make NL Pinocchio’s Pleasure Island.
I could see an ep where we have flashbacks of puppet Pinocchio in NL/Pleasure Island, paralleled with human August, as a child and adult in our world.
@KFChimera wrote:
I’m just saying–if original NL fairies are born from the first laughter of a baby then maybe, ultra dark OUAT NL fairies are born from tears!
Yes! Dunno if you’re the same person I’ve seen mention that on here before, (there’s so much stuff it’s hard to remember who said what), but I loved that idea when I saw it posted recently.
@RumplesGirl wrote:
But if Tink is evil and Hook is the foe of PP then I don’t know why Tink and Hook would strike a bargain. Originally, Tink is jealous of Wendy and her new friendship with PP which is why she goes to Hook, but Wendy wasn’t in NL long enough and PP wasn’t kind enough for them to strike up a friendship, at least not so far as we can tell.
Traditionally, Tink switches her personality back and forth because she’s so small she can only hold one emotion at a time. I’d like them to keep with that so we’d be questioning whose side she’s actually on. Maybe BF is always so sweet and helpful for this very reason, that fairies can only hold one emotion at a time, and she chooses to always focus on staying in that one mindset. But Tink may be ADHD fairy, so one day she’s friendly and will help you, but the next she’ll turn jealous and help your enemy. That would make her similar to Hook in a way, though he’s actually controlled and calculated in his decisions when he’s switching between teams.
@RumplesGirl wrote:
As to why the beans keep passing in and out of human existence…I have no idea. It’s possible that Tink took them for some reason but I don’t know why she or PP would want them as Tink could probably fly off from NL and PP has his Shadow (if it is his Shadow) can leave NL.
Unless and until we’re shown something different, I’m happy to assume that humans had largely used up the last batch of beans, and only the last few were gathered up by the fairies for safe keeping.
I just find it curious that time didn’t advance in SB and time also doesn’t advance in NL. Seems too identical to be coincidence, so I figure there’s gotta be a link in there somehow.
Rumple put a drop of twu wuv potion on the paper the Curse was written on, so I was envisioning something similar by calling something from NL an “ingredient” that formed part of how the Curse operated.
