[Phee]

@Crimson Angel wrote:

A.W.B = (A Wooden Boy.)

For all the talk about the significance of names on this show, that interpretation almost always gets overlooked, but I think it’s the most fun fact about his name. 😉

The wooden dog is something he made, learned toy making from father.

It was a donkey, ie: the animal Pinocchio turned into at one point in his story.

Mr. Gold will die and Emma will kill him with the knife, thus becoming the new Dark One. This will be the favor Mr. Gold asks for in return from her.

I don’t think the dagger contains any power in Storybrooke. August certainly didn’t have much luck commanding Mr Gold to do anything when he was holding it. So I don’t think if anyone killed him with it, there’d be any power to transfer. Basically, his Dark One curse no longer exists at this point in time.

@Crimson Angel wrote:

Just another point, maybe the reason for August needing to move fast is because by Emma coming to Storybrook his illness is advancing just like the clock. Something that wouldn’t have happened until her return.

This reminds me of a comment that's been made that the finale will have a “clock ticking moment”, (possibly not exactly the right wording). In the pilot, Emma came to down and time started advancing. Maybe in the finale, Emma will believe and August's illness will stop advancing.

@AngieBelle wrote:

I think the dark magic that Rumple gained has blackened his soul. He was a good man to begin with but when he gained evil power, it was only his love for Bae that kept that spark of humanity in him.

Agreed. It wasn’t his intention to be evil, he just wanted to be able to keep his son safe and free the kids from war. In “The Return”, he was still at the stage where he was justifying his actions by saying they were done with the good intention of protecting his son. But really, he was doing some not so nice stuff. I can’t hold him completely responsible for that stuff though, because the curse was corrupting him and he had no way to fight it.

@hjbau wrote:

Rumpel wanted power when he was just a man. He was a coward when he was just a man. And he was a murderer when he was just a man. And he is still that same man now that he is the dark one and it is not good.

He wanted power only so he could do good with it, and didn’t realise the implications that power would have, I can’t fault him for that.

I don’t believe he was a coward before the curse took hold. If not wanting to fight in a war makes one a coward, then sign me up for the coward club. If I’d been a young man in the US when they had the draft lottery, I’d have been one of the dodgers sneaking over the border into Canada.

He was cowardly in “The Return” when he refused to give up his powers and follow Bae.

His killing of Zoso was a pretty unique situation. Zoso had tricked him into it because he wanted it to happen. I doubt when Rumple stabbed him, he was looking at him as though he was human, he just thought he was an evil monster who deserved to die.

@*The Looking Glass* wrote:

I agree with all of this. I also liked when Mr. Gold apologized and confessed his sins to August. It was so honest and heartfelt. In that moment, it showed that Mr. Gold truly wanted to change. Him giving August the dagger was a grand gesture of sacrifice and forgiveness. He chose power once, but now he’s choosing his son instead.

Robert OWNED that scene. Eion was great in it too. They both brought the angsty goodness. My heart was well and truly wrenched. 🙁

I think that if/when ( 😉 ) he’s revealed to be Pinocchio, re-watching that scene from August’s perspective adds a whole other wonderful layer to the way it was written and acted, because he was projecting his own emotions of his relationship with his own father. Both he and Mr Gold were sorting through their emotional father/son issues with each other, instead of the people they really desire to do it with.

[Phee]

@daybreak_fairy wrote:

Another thing I was thinking about her is the lying issue. She said “We don’t do that.” (lying) when Rumple called her a liar, but not doing something & actually been incapable of doing it are 2 different things.

As soon as she said that, I instantly flashed back to Emma saying to August, “That’s exactly what a liar would say.” 😉

@romantic_sheep wrote:

This could easily be me reading too much into word choice, but I just found her use of “right” instead of “good” kind of interesting.

I don’t think you’re reading too much into it at all. Found her choice of words quite intriguing. Gets me wondering just how many shades of grey there are in magic. Obviously there’s the dark stuff, and the light stuff, but I’m thinking things get hazy in between. If your intention is “good”, can you dabble in a little “bad” magic to get there? Does the end justify the means? Can you be on the “right side” of any given situation, even if you do things that might be considered slightly less than pure in order to help the cause, should the situation call for it? I think BF is the type who would answer yes.

[Phee]

@snowfan wrote:

OK so no one actually said anywhere that Bae came to our world . . . That leaves A LOT of options open.

Blue: But I can send him someplace where he won’t be able to use his powers.
Bae: Not a jail. I want to be with him, like it used to be.
Blue: Not a jail, young one. Just a place without magic.
Bae: But magic is everywhere.
Blue: In this world, yes. You see, what ails your father is specific to our realm. His powers do not belong here. You must go where you can escape this wretched curse.

My initial interpretation was that she meant they’d be sent to a land where Rumple’s particular magic would be void, but not necessarily that the whole land would be magic-less. But taking her words at face value it does seem she said a world without magic.

Now that I’ve had the time to think about it some more, I’m wondering if that portal was to one specific world, or did it have the potential to send the entrants to any of several lands, depending on what that person’s needs were?

So if Rumple had have gone through, the need was for them to be in a land without magic, so they likely would have ended up in our world.

BUT, when Bae fell through alone, did the portal determine a different destination for him, based on his needs, now that he’d lost his parent and had essentially become a Lost Boy?

So I’m not giving up on my Neverland theory just yet. 😉

@EastOfTheSun wrote:

But I kind of think if Rumple made the curse, its logical that he would want to be transported to the exact place where Bae was transported to, Since Rumple is all about the fine details I think he would include this in the curse, to be 100% sure he would be able to find him…

There may not have been a way for him to research that properly though, especially if Blue Fairy was trying to twart his efforts and keep him from discovering too much info. He may have found our world, the one without magic that he THINKS Bae was sent to, which is why he set the curse up to send them here.

[Phee]

@TheOnionGirl wrote:

I guess I just don’t see what’s so bad about it. I mean, they turned annoying Disney Snow White into a butt-kicking renegade and no one has a problem with that.

I think turning the cutsy Disney Pinocchio into August would be kind of awesome. 🙂 If he also was sent to our world 28 years ago, he’s had nearly three decades to turn into his own person … a writer, a motorcycle aficienado, a person who’s spent all the time away from his beloved parent and his very world, a person who might have known that he could, one day, be killed by the curse’s effects, a person who knows exactly who to blame for the curse (Regina and Rumple). A man who knows perfectly well that this world he’s in thinks FTL and its people are nothing but silly stories for children. And he’s the only one who knows otherwise.

Cutsy, heck. I think that Pinocchio couldn’t be blamed for taking names and kicking butt.

Yes, I think August is wonderful and that him being Pinocchio would be wonderful, so I agree with you, I’m not sure why so many people seem so anti the possibility.

@jondavidcarroll wrote:

I’m desperately hoping that he is a very important character. I’m not saying Pinocchio isn’t important, I just don’t think all the obvious signs of him being Pinocchio would satisfy all the hype that they’ve built up over this guy.

Obviously we all have a different perspective, but IMO his being Pinocchio would be INCREDIBLY signifcant and would be a VITAL point to moving Emma towards believing, therefore him being Pinocchio would be a significant driving force for the overall plot of the show. I’m not sure how a character could be more important than that at this point in time.

@jondavidcarroll wrote:

Last week’s promo, for this episode (The Return) led us to believe that Mr. Gold said TO AUGUST, “I think you’re here to try and kill me.” And he wasn’t even talking to August in that scene. His words mumbled together and the editors knew they could fool us. Even more, I bet Jane Espenson is laughing her you know what off right now that she fooled us on Bae. And I’d put money on it that they’re tricking us again with the next promo.

What was in the promo for The Return was the scene in Archie’s office where Mr Gold says, “I think he might be here to try and kill me,” followed up by the shot of August confronting him. They never showed him saying those words TO August. And when I heard Mr Gold say that in the promo, I automatically assumed that wasn’t what August was trying to do at all.

[Phee]

On the one hand, I think Sidney’s chances of death have now increased, because Regina really has exhausted her need for him now. He’s taken the fall for Kathryn’s disappearance, so if he’s sitting in jail, he can’t work for her any more, and there’s still the chance he’ll break and tell the truth to Emma.

But if Sidney dies, even if Regina sets it up to look like he took his own life because of his crimes, would Emma believe it? Could be a very risky move for Regina, but it might be a chance she has to take.

Regina breaking the mirror in the promo may be an indicator of what’s to come for poor Sidney.

[Phee]

I think he called Mother Superior.

Though every time I see this thread title in the list of active topics, I feel the urge to say, “Ghostbusters!” 😛

[Phee]

Not sure if I buy into this theory yet, but I’m not ready to write it off just yet either.

The big glitch for me is if Mr Gold deliberately procured Henry for Regina because he was Emma’s son, then surely he’d have known who the kid’s father was too, right? But he’s certainly never acted as though he feels that Henry is his grandson.

Also not sure I like the idea of them turning sweet Bae into the guy Emma has painted as being kind of horrible, though it’s true her perspective of the situation may have been off, or what happened to him may have changed him.

@rumplegoldfan wrote:

I think when she realized that Rumple had found a way to enact the curse she managed to get Emma and Bae together but then found a way to pull them apart before Bae knew that Emma was pregnant. She wouldn’t care if it appeared to Emma that Bae was a loser – she just cares about the end game.

This theory makes me buy into the possibility of it. Could certainly believe it if Blue Fairy interfered somehow to set it all up.

The other big glitch is the age/time issue of course, and we don’t even know yet where Bae ended up when he went into the ground, so he may not even be in our world.

I can see this becoming the next BIG debate once we have August’s identity resolved. 😉

[Phee]

I was thinking the tree was in our world. If Emma goes into a tree in FTL, it’d be reasonable to assume she’d be inside a tree when she pops up in our world. The blast is the force of her arrival, blowing a hole in the side of the tree so Pinocchio can pick her up. The fact he wasn’t in the tree himself, and was already there, suggests that he wasn’t transported via the tree/wardrobe, but via some other means before Emma came through.

[Phee]

Is it next Sunday yet?
How about now?
NOW?!?!

So super psyched for this ep. As I’d suspected, August is gonna lay it all on the line and spell it out for Emma. Can’t freakin’ wait for that scene!! 😀

Is that the side blasting off a tree? And then Pinocchio peering inside the hole? To find baby Emma perhaps?

[Phee]

@weedith wrote:

This kind of brings us back to the question of what it means for the curse to be broken. It doesn’t seem likely that they will all go back to FTL because then it would all be for naught as far as Rumple is concerned. Are we to believe that Mr Gold has been looking for Bae all along? Or does breaking the curse simply mean they are able to leave Storybrooke so THEN Mr Gold will be able to leave and look for Bae?

I’m not convinced that Bae ever came to our world, but it seems that Mr Gold believes he did, so yes, it would make sense that he needs the curse broken so he can leave Storybrooke and search for his son.

@hjbau wrote:

I disagree. I think this episode made it clear that Emma does have magic. That is what August said. He needs to get Emma to believe so that he will help him.

I think that the “magic” he personally needs from her, is simply for her to believe, which will break the curse and stop whatever is killing him.

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