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@Midnight Dreary wrote:
YOU ARE THE DESTROYER OF DREAMS!!!
Duuuude, that should be MY line for this thread. Stop stealin’ my material. 😉 😆
@obisgirl wrote:
Most fairytale characters-real world counterparts are the opposite of who they are in fairytale world. Pinocchio was honest because if he wasn’t, he nose would grow long as a puppet. August hasn’t been honest about why he is really there.
The way you put it there, August is the opposite of Pinocchio, unless I’m mis-reading what you wrote? Or did you mean how Pinocchio did tell lies, even though he wasn’t supposed to? Which makes him the same as August, who says he doesn’t tell lies, even though he does? Yes that trait does make both personalities the same. BUT, the theory that August is Pinocchio depends on him having escaped the curse, otherwise he wouldn’t have aged. So if he escaped the curse, he also escaped the personality reversing effects of it.
@obisgirl wrote:
Why would Gepetto use the tree as a test run for his son? That would be extremely selfish or him,
I think that if Pinocchio did escape, be it via the tree or by some other means, it wasn’t just something that Geppetto did on his own. He wouldn’t risk the life of his son, and potentially stuff up the saving of their saviour, just to do a test run. Any escape by Pinocchio would have been orchestrated by either Blue Fairy, or Rumple. Both of them had a motive to get Emma away safely, because Blue Fairy obviously wanted the curse eventually broken by Emma, and I believe Rumple does too. It’s probably more likely that Blue Fairy had a hand in any Pinocchio escape plan though.
From the preview, the Stranger is confronting Mr. Gold in the woods and he has the dagger! Now, ask yourself, why would Pinocchio want to kill Mr. Gold? They have no connection whatsoever. Secondly, from caps I have seen of that moment, he looks especially troubled to be pointing the dagger at him which leads me to believe that he is conflicted.
We don't know for sure yet what that scene is actually about. It certainly looks like August is confronting him, and then we're given a line from Mr Gold saying “I think he's here to kill me”, but promos can be notoriously misleading.
There would certainly be conflict between Mr Gold and August if he's Bae, and I agree, it'd be fabulous to see that play out, and I do hope that we get to see Bae in our world at some point, even though I don't think this will be it.
As for why Pinocchio would want to kill Mr Gold. Well, if he was a child in Fairytale, he'd have heard about Rumple and what a bad guy he is. I also think that if Blue Fairy did sent Pinocchio away, that she gave him this task. Gave him the picture of the dagger we see him with in The Return (BTW why would Bae need a pic of it if he'd seen the actual dagger before?) and said that one day he'd have to find this dagger and use it against Rumple.
August appears to be a very chilled out, peaceful kinda guy, almost got a hippy vibe about him. I don't imagine he'd relish having to confront someone with a dagger, so no matter who he is or isn't, that explains why he looks troubled in that scene from the promo.
If the Stranger added his story to Henry’s book, he wouldn’t have needed to do that if he is Pinocchio because Pinocchio is already in the book!
True, but we don’t know exactly what August added to the book yet do we? Might have been something that had nothing to do with him. Might have been that he was adding in bits of stories that had to do with Rumple. If, as I’ve suspected, the full extent of Rumple’s deeds weren’t in the book, maybe August added them in, because they’re clues that Emma will need if she’s going to break the curse.
Pinocchio DID not start out as a human. He was a puppet so it only makes sense that he would have reverted back to being a puppet in the real world or perhaps, the form he was originally in before he was carved into a puppet.
Like the personality reversal mentioned previously, if Pinocchio escaped the curse, there was never a chance of him reverting to puppet form. If it turns out he didn’t escape the curse, then yeah, I could buy it if he were a puppet again in Storybrooke. Though I’m not sure why they wouldn’t have shown us that by now if that’s all there was gonna be to his Storybrooke story, if he was gonna be an insignificant character. They coulda just shown him sitting in Mr Gold’s shop next to Geppetto’s parents.
when the Stranger comes into possession of the dagger, look at where he is in that scene when he summons him: in the woods!! Which is an interesting parallel to when Rumpelstiltskin used the dagger to summon the Old Dark One in 1×08 “Desperate Souls.”
That scene will be a wonderful parallel to the scene from Desperate Souls, and I can't wait to see it.
@Midnight Dreary wrote:
I’d also like to add that Mr. Gold told Leroy in episode 1×14, “Dreamy,” that he hated nuns. And of course, when he says “nuns” he really means fairies. And after watching Desperate Souls and Skin Deep, it’s made quite clear that most of Rumpel’s decisions are motivated by the love. In his case, that would be Bae and Belle. So the fact that Rumpel holds so much hatred for the fairies tells me that it probably has something to do with the fairies. Maybe they took Bae off to Neverland to protect him from Rumpel. That may also be why he was so desperate to get his hands on the fairy wand. Maybe the only way to gain access into Neverland is by using the wand of a fairy.
Right now I’m totally digging the theory that Blue Fairy sent Bae to Neverland to protect him from Rumple. I think he’s still there and we won’t see more of that storyline until season 2. Love the idea that that’s the reason he was after the fairy wand!
I posted a youtube link over in the spoilers section where Robert is talking about the Rumple/Bae relationship and he says it doesn't exist yet in Storybrooke, and also said that he'd just finished shooting The Return. So either Mr Carlyle isn't telling the whole truth, or there's nothing about August being Bae in The Return. He also says we'll see where Bae has “gone to.” This makes me think that they're waiting till they have the Peter Pan rights and then they can set up a connection between Neverland and Storybrooke in season 2 and that's when we'll see Mr Gold reunited with his son somehow.
[adrotate group="5"]@Beauty & the Beast wrote:
I wonder what kind of reaction Belle will have to seeing Mr. Gold again? I still can’t shake the feeling that she’s been brainwashed to either forget about him or to hate him.
I like the idea that Regina has her heart locked up in a box, (well, not like it, coz it’d be super sad, but I like it as a plot point). There wouldn’t be any brainwashing needed because Belle would be numb and wouldn’t remember anything of their love.
I think it’s safe to assume that everyone from Fairytale is in Storybrooke. I personally doubt that anyone from any other magical lands, like Wonderland, ended up in Storybrooke, (which means I suspect Jefferson found a way back some time before the curse hit). But that dark cloud that came with the curse looked like it was tearing the whole land up well and good, so I’m thinking everyone in its path got swept up and plonked down in Maine.
@slurpeez108 wrote:
The fact that the writers’ purposefully created a character who made a speech about driving everyone crazy guessing his identity and agenda is good writing.
They’d be loving that everyone is getting worked up about this issue. LOL *poking my tongue out at Adam and Eddy in case they lurk by* Well played, gentlemen. 😛
@slurpeez108 wrote:
I maintain that his name Wayne Booth is a reference to the literary critic who coined the phrase “unreliable narrator.” It makes me think that this character is a symbol of the creators of the show, who may also try to throw us for a loop.
It’d be one helluva coincidence if that’s not where they got his name from. I think the “unreliable narrator” bit plays into his character quite nicely with the fact that he altered the book, which tells the stories that the show is based on. I also wonder if they used the name August because the Brothers Grimm had a close friend who helped them with collecting their stories, and his name was August von Somethingorother. That totally fits for a character who’s had something to do with writing the book of fairytales.
@Surayya wrote:
Lol Phee, it is hard case how we can all read totally different meanings in to exactly the same images
It’d be a terribly boring world if everyone saw everything in exactly the same way. 😉
@Surayya wrote:
The blue fairy has been shown as an uber ‘good guy’ helping the FTL folk in one way or another, yet she suddenly becomes a ‘bad guy’ & lies about something so important (saving everyone) to everyone who trusts her?
I think she’s been shown to be a character who will do what needs to be done, even if it won’t win her friends. She had no qualms about stomping on Nova and Dreamy’s love with all the talk about how it simply COULD NOT happen, there’s just no way because it’s not the way the world works and she wasn’t ever gonna budge on that opinion, no matter how heartbroken they’d be, they just had to suck it up and get over it.
Much like she told Snow and Charming they’d have to suck it up and get over it that they’d be separated for 28 years. In the end, it’d all work out, and they’d be together again, and their separation was ultimately a temporary sacrifice for the good of ALL. If Blue Fairy did something to send Pinicchio with Emma, I believe that would have been her same line of thinking. She had to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes right now, so that the plan would work out in the long term. If she didn’t pull the wool over their eyes, the plan may fail and they’d all be doomed in the long run.
@Surayya wrote:
Also why on earth send a child through the wardrobe to watch over Emma, its not like a kid can keep a baby safe & protect it. Wouldnt you send a teenager or young adult through for that job, so they could then teach, train or help her.
That is definitely a fair point. Though I posted in another thread today that the wardrobe only looked child size, but yes, someone a bit older than Pinocchio could have squished in there. Would you accept the superficial reasoning that they had to be close in age so that they could cast a hottie for Emma to potentially hook up with when they were adults and they could become the next gen supercouple of the show? LOL
@Surayya wrote:
Its also hardly a big deal sending the savior through if others can go as well (if they start breaking fundamental rules like that which set the situation up in SB, then I’ll be another who wont bother the with the show anymore as every other rule they’ve set up, like the curse itself, will become moot if rules we’ve been told (repeatedly – remember snow & charming kept reminding us before & after the birth ‘only one can go through’), is really just lies
I don’t think Pinocchio being sent as a protector, who has grown into August who is the motivator, takes anything away from Emma being the saviour. If the most important person in the equation were August, then he’d be running around breaking the curse on his own right now. Instead, he’s dropping hints and guiding Emma towards clues that will hopefully help her believe, because if she doesn’t, then the curse won’t break. It still all comes down to her. And really, without August starting to give her little nudges in the right direction, she’d kinda be a lost cause as the saviour right now. I think it’s reasonable that Blue Fairy suspected that that would be the case, and that Emma would need help if she was ever gonna believe and save them all. I don’t think that would take anything away from the integrity of the basis of the show.
@Surayya wrote:
Im not going to go into the whole ‘is a baby considered a being in of itself while still inside its mother’ debate (thats a massive kettle of worms & not really for this forum),
Now you mention it, I guess it can be a contentious issue, oops. That particular debate never occured to me, just coz we’re dealing with a very late term pregnancy in this case, not a woman who was newly preggo, which, yeah, people can take some serious sides on that issue. Not a debate I intended to raise at all. 😕
@Surayya wrote:
I dont really have a preferance for August being someone As long as its plausible & makes sense! lol)
Obviously I’m quite definitely on a particular team on this matter. LOL That said, if he’s NOT Pinocchio, I’ll be totally fine with whoever he IS, like you say, as long as they make it plausible. IMO, Pinocchio is the most plausible theory, but if they show me something different in a believable way, I’ll totally buy it.
@LisaFromOH wrote:
Also, people keep pointing out that Snow was manipulated into telling the secret. That is true, but Regina doesn’t know that. For all Regina knows, Snow searched out Cora in order to tell her. Regina knows her mother is manipulative, but she does not know that Cora manipulated Snow into telling the secret, only that she is capable of doing so. Regina did not know Snow well enough to know that she would try to keep the secret and after this point her opinion of Snow is already prejudiced.
That’s a fair point, she didn’t know for sure how that conversation happened. It wouldn’t have been a stretch for her to put 2 and 2 together and realise that Cora had manipulated Snow, but in the heat of the moment when she found out Snow had blabbed, she probably wasn’t thinking that deeply about it, she just had a snap reaction.
@rumplegoldfan wrote:
In some ways has the curse actually caused Snow to provide Regina with a new love?
Ya know, it kinda has. Too bad for Regina that she’s failing at the mother – child relationship she’s been given the opportunity for.
@slurpeez108 wrote:
I agree with the assessment that Regina took out her anger on the easier target because Regina couldn’t take on her mother or her magic at that stage. I think we’ll see that in another episode: how to do magic.
Yes, I’m hoping we’ll see Regina unleash some rage on Cora in a future ep. That will be fabulous!
At this stage I’m going with the idea that Regina didn’t get her powers in exactly the same way that Rumple got his, I’m thinking she just stole her mother’s powers (perhaps with some help from Rumple?) and banished her to Wonderland.
@rumplegoldfan wrote:
I just watched the episode again and I have this nagging feeling that somehow (and I KNOW the timeline doesn’t seem to make sense) that Cora was Rumple’s wife. In the scene in the stable right after Cora ripped Daniel’s heart out she is giving this big speech to Regina about everything she has sacrificed for her and she ends it by saying something like “Love is nothing. Power is more important. If you have power you never have to depend on anyone every again.” It just sounded so similar to when Rumple kicked Belle out by saying “My power means more to me than you” as a way of trying to deny that he loved her – as if he heard something similar said to him in a hurtful manner in the past. And based upon what the guard said to Rumple about his wife leaving him because he was a coward who ran from a war – Rumple was a stable-type guy like Daniel who Cora clearly detested and said she had worked her way up from that kind of life, it could be that she felt that Rumple being a poor “coward” was someone she couldn’t depend on so she needed to become powerful. And that could be the reason she left, and Rumple told Bae his mother was dead instead of letting him know what she is really like.
Timeline impossibilities aside, I think it’d be interesting if this ended up being true. It’d mean that Rumple DID in fact get the miller’s daughter’s first born. No, he wasn’t magical at the time, and there was no straw spinning involved in the story, but it’d still be a shoutout to the theme of the original story. Considering they’ve injected Rumple into all the other stories, he probably doesn’t need his own told in the way we know it, so maybe it just never happened like that in the Once-iverse.
Maybe he was married to the miller’s daughter, and she had a son, but it was the result of an affair, (the Dark One implied that Rumple might not actually be Bae’s father). Rumple comes back from war labeled a coward and Cora takes off, either with Bae’s bio dad, or on her own, leaving the baby behind, (safe to assume that Bae’s mother disappeared when he was a baby coz he’s relying on Rumple’s info as to what happened to her). Maybe Cora came back at some point, after Rumple had become the Dark One, and ended up taking some of his powers? Have we seen Rumple do that trick that the Dark One did? Where he raised his fist and the magic controlled people? Zoso did it, Cora did it, but I dunno that we’ve seen Rumple do it? So perhaps Cora somehow stole just enough of Rumple’s powers that it granted her some sort of immortality? That’d solve the timeline problem.
@rumplegoldfan wrote:
– and when that happened her mother told her “Well played, I’m so proud of you.” Even more wacked!!!
What got me was when he told Regina she’d done something right for the first time ever. Gee, thanks mum. 🙄 Then it tuns out that that whole situation had been set up by Cora anyway.
@rumplegoldfan wrote:
I think that Regina and Rumple became acquainted because they both wanted to get revenge on Cora for how she had hurt them
I could totally see that a common enemy like Cora could bring them together. To pick up from the other theory I speculated on just above, maybe Regina goes to Rumple because she’s desperate to have some power over her mother and he’s all, “Ya know, she did this trick on me once where she stole some of my powers. Turn about is fair play, here’s how you can do the same thing to her.”
I always try to make sure that nothing specifically spoilery seeps into my general forum posts. Apologies if I ever have let something through.
Now that I think of it, I may have commented on an interview with Kitsis/Horowitz where they mentioned characters they want to use in the future, and that was probably in one of the general forums, but I didn’t really consider that spoilery, coz it was just speculation on their part, not official confirmation, and they were characters that everyone assumes will be on the show at some point anyway. If that stuff IS deemed spoilery by the forum powers that be though, I’ll be sure to avoid mentioning it in the future.
@hjbau wrote:
But the whole point was to send Snow through still pregnant so Emma would not have been alone.
@AngieBelle wrote:
I’m sure there will be a perfectly good explanation if it’s the case…maybe since Emma and Pinocchio were both children that is the only way it would work for two people, and they had to send a child to watch over Emma.
I haven’t watched the ep in a lil while, but from memory, the wardrobe didn’t really look big enough to have taken a woman who was 9 months pregnant, it was more child size. So it wouldn’t surprise me if Blue Fairy knew all along that Snow herself wouldn’t be going in that wardrobe.
Even if pregnant Snow HAD have gone through, the tree would have been protecting two, not one like Blue Fairy was telling everyone, so I think she wasn’t telling everyone the whole truth about whatever plan she was up to.
I wonder if the rules of the tree are similar to the rules of the hat: the same number have to come back through the portal as went in. Emma and August have both “come back” to the displaced Fairytale Land, (and so far, they’ve been the only two people from outside Storybrooke who have ever come to town).
@weebeastie wrote:
But I was struck by a thought, what if EQ has Belle’s heart in one of her little boxes? All she would have to do is squeeze…how do you think that would affect Rumpel?
Can’t believe I hadn’t considered that possibility before. Yikes, that would NOT be good. And I could totally see Regina having Belle’s heart stashed in a box. Would be the perfect way for her to control Mr Gold if he knew that she quite literally held his true love’s life in her hand.
I suppose Mr Gold would need to find a way to restore that heart to its rightful place. Which would have to involve magic of some kind. Which would put a glitch in his plan if his overall plan was to rid the world of magic as I’ve previously theorised.
