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I completely understand where both of you are coming from….and more than likely we may see the Robin and Marian thing in a Robin Hood Flashback Episode….but as for OutlawQueen getting to know one another on an emotional level, I think they already covered that back in 3B, but it was just behind the scenes. It was left completely up to the viewer how they probably got to know one another, but now that I think about it…we did have that during their Smores Lunch Date.
I think that for someone like Regina, that developing relationship needed to be shown rather than happening “behind the scenes”. “Behind the scenes” is a lazy way to write a romantic relationship unless the writers are intending for the relationship to be a “reveal” ie a villain goes home after a hard days work of villainy to loved ones showing a softer side or it is revealed that one of the heroes is having a romance with a villain and is a mole etc. Every other ship on the show has had some sort of build up. OQ kind of went from 0-60 in seconds. In Skin Deep, the episode which is responsible for RumBelle, there are several time jumps so although RumBelle technically progress from first meeting to TLK within that single episode, you are still shown the touchstones within that relationship: the first meeting, the developing friendship, the emotional connection, the TLK. Later episodes then fill in the blanks. For OQ, Robin just jumped into “you’re hot” territory on first meeting Regina without any reason for doing so. He didn’t even get a “you’re not as bad as I thought you were” moment which should’ve been something that happened especially considering Regina’s reputation as the “evil queen”. Even in Storybrooke when everyone was memory less, Robin was still at it, despite it being the first time he met Regina as far as they knew. Had they developed that relationship in the EF to a meaningful level then I could accept Robin and Regina being “drawn” to aka like Snowing were drawn to each other in season 1. However, as far as I could tell the OQ relationship didn’t develop much beyond Robin thinking Regina was hot and Regina telling him to go away. So Regina suddenly reciprocating towards Robin in Storybrooke seemed a little out of left field because there was no set up for it.
Though…I must add that Fate and Destiny play a large role in the show, and it had always been Robin and Regina’s fate to end up together. It was never truly her fate to be dark or corrupted, I kinda think that was always supposed to have been Zelena, hence Rumple’s “First Born” Child Prophecy…Regina’s fate was aligned to have a happy ending with Robin Hood.
I dislike the whole fate/destiny/soulmate thing that has been tied to OQ. Not only does it suggest that people aren’t in control of their own lives, choices and decisions, but it also makes a couple forced rather than allowing them to come together organically. SwanFire was strongly hinted to have been fate/destiny and that didn’t end well. I think the whole “pixie dust said so” is bad writing because it basically says to the audience that they have to support this ship because “it’s fate” rather than supporting it because the characters have great chemistry etc.
And I think because of the Soul Mate Bond thing…Robin and Regina shared an instant connection which is why they progressed faster than any other ship, they’re not just True Loves, they’re Soul Mates….souls bound by Fate and Destiny to end up together. Which is why they had such instant trust: Regina trusting Robin with her heart/Robin trusting Regina with Roland….and really Sympathy or Compassion: Unlike everyone else, Robin saw past the whole Evil Queen moniker, and saw the redeemed woman underneath. He’s never once thrown her past back in her face, and even though he knows she’s responsible for Marian’s death, he understands that she was a different woman back then, and that she wasn’t like that anymore.
Again this is something we should’ve seen. There are a lot of reactions we should’ve seen but didn’t including other story points. I think OQ should’ve had build up like Snowing and RumBelle had build up and not been fast tracked because of the “soul mate” thing. We never got to see Robin’s conflict between his new love for Regina and the revelation that she originally killed Marian, and because of that Robin kind of looks like a douchebag for being completely unbothered by it.
What I would’ve liked to see:
Marian: Regina killed me!
Robin: Oh no! What do I do? I love Regina but I loved Marian and Regina is the reason why I lost Marian. I’m so conflicted! What should I do?What we got:
Marian: Regina killed me!
Robin: Okay then. I’m off to bang Regina in her crypt.Even in the Enchanted Forest, they really had instant chemistry that wasn’t oblivious….they were really acting like two children on the playground who mess with each other because they probably like each other. Like Lana & Sean said…”It was a lot of sexual tension that they really didn’t know how to be adult about.” All that probably came from once again, the Soul Mate Bond.
Again, would’ve liked to see them progress into something meaningful in the EF hence being drawn to each other in Storybrooke. The soulmate thing is just an excuse not to spend time developing the relationship properly and in many ways weakens and belittles the ship itself and other ships on the show. The acting like children was okay for the first couple of weeks/months but by the end of the missing year they should’ve progressed, not been still at square one.
I understand that but…
In a normal, real-life situation, Robin I think would react very differently to learning that Regina killed his wife. I don’t think he would take her back with open arms. Marian’s not only his wife but the mother of his child. This is also the same woman he would have walked through fire for.
An actual reaction from Robin would’ve been nice.
Robin/Regina would not possible in a real life scenario like that but for the sake of the show, the story and the relationship because Robin is supposed to be with Regina, Regina murdering Marian gets swept under the rug. And that’s more than a little disturbing.
I agree. I think 4A butchered Robin’s character because of how uncaring he seemed towards Marian and for the sake of OQ. Instead of letting OQ stand on it’s own merits, they are forcing the characters to act a certain way to make OQ happen and this is dragging down both characters. Robin’s suffered the worst because he’s not a main character, but even Regina has been dragged down by OQ particularly in 3B especially in Kansas.
I have no qualms with Marian. I think it’s sad she’s become a plot device but it’s also not the first time either that a first love (on this show) has become a plot device in order to prop up another character and make them look better too. It’s also not fair to the character of Marian as well. (Nealfire had more character development than Marian).
More definitely could’ve been done with Marian but as you say, she’s just a plot device. Henry has become a plot device too.
In a normal, real life situation…could any of Once’s ships happen? Belle was once Rumple’s slave…Hook is hundreds of years older than Emma…Neal left Emma to go to jail….Snow and Charming are probably one of the only ships that could ever happen in real life.
Yes and No. There are elements of all the Once ships that do happen in reality and there are elements that don’t happen in reality.
And we must realize that…the love he has for Regina and Marian are probably on two different scales. Regina is his soul mate, again bound by fate, Marian was probably his first love. Could Robin and Regina love each other more than they ever did Daniel and Marian…I don’t know, perhaps.
I have to strongly disagree with this for two reasons. Firstly, Marian and Daniel were killed. Had they lived, chances are that Regina and Robin would be very happy living with their other halves right now and would probably have never met. Regina/Daniel and Robin/Marian didn’t split up because they didn’t love each other any more, they were separated by death.
Secondly, by saying OQ love each other “more” or “better” compared to previous relationships, it completely undermines all the characters especially Regina. Why did Regina become so determined at getting revenge on Snow for Daniel if he wasn’t all that great compared to Robin? By that logic, Regina should’ve been thanking Snow and worshipping at her feet because Snow cleared the way for Regina to meet her “soulmate”. By that logic Regina was very ungrateful towards Snow. It reduces Daniel and Marian to just placeholders and it makes Robin look even worse that he married a woman and got her pregnant just to keep his bed warm until he met his “soulmate”.
Regina/Daniel and Robin/Marian does not diminish OQ, but to try and make OQ diminish Regina/Daniel and Robin/Marian only causes Regina and Robin to come out unfavourably.
Again…none of the ships on Once could work out in real life, and a lot of things are swept under the rug in every Once Relationships. Some things aren’t even found out (cough) Rumple killing Zelena (cough), we know what happened, and we can either stay focused on something that has now become insignificant, or we can just move on with the show. But I do understand how you feel because the fact that Rumple has got away scot-free with killing Regina’s sister irks me still.
I’m more irked that Rumple is the ONLY one that gets punished for his wrong doing whilst Regina and Hook get away with it scot-free. If it was a more even playing field the it wouldn’t seem so bad but Hook gets away with everything. I’m not too bothered by Zelena’s death in the sense that she treated Rumple like absolute crap so she kind of got what she deserved. In fact I was more bothered by her defeat by Regina and how patronising Regina was in that episode. However, Zelena’s an interesting character for me in the sense that there were times where I absolutely hated her then other times I sympathised with her. I think more could’ve been done with Zelena and she could’ve been fleshed out more.
And I think it’s safe to say that Regina and Marian are even now, so the whole “You murdered me” thing should be case closed because Regina has saved Marian’s life three times now, all at the expense of her own happiness. So they’re even now.
I don’t think you can point score over something like this because to say that Regina has done Y for Marian therefore X is wiped out doesn’t fully represent the bigger picture. Regina saving Marian only proves that Regina is a better person now than she was and that enables Marian to perhaps start on the road towards forgiveness. You can’t make Marian forgive and forget what Regina did to her just because Regina saved her. Marian has missed out on the first few years of Roland’s life because of Regina. Regina can’t turn around on Roland’s 18th birthday and say to Marian “Since I’ve let you be in Roland’s life for the past 14 years, the first 4 years you missed because of me are now irrelevant”. Regina’s actions should not be whitewashed. I can still root for Regina and acknowledge she’s done bad things. I would’ve much preferred for Robin to have acknowledged and dealt with the conflicting emotions over the Marian murder thing rather than just glossing over it and pretending it never happened.
That’s all an issue with the writing….though Marian has no major connection with anyone but Robin Hood, so of course she’s gonna be a background character with minor importance. We can’t cover the background characters because there’s not enough time in the show, so she’s not really a plot device used to prop up Regina, who didn’t need anyone to make her look good because she had already done all of her good deeds before Robin or Marian.
I agree. Because of lack of time, characters like Granny, the dwarves, Whale, Archie, Red etc are now glorified extras. Since the start of season 3, we’ve been getting under developed characters because there’s not enough time to flesh them out more. Marian has fallen victim to that.
I agree with what you say about Regina doing good before Robin and Marian. Regina was awesome in Neverland. 3B and 4A I didn’t like Regina so much because I felt they made her very dependent on Robin in order for her to be good. Kansa is the worst Regina episode because, rather than being the strong willed independent woman we know she is, she needed Robin and Henry to give her a pep talk before she could suddenly do light magic which she has never displayed any inclination towards previously. Her “heroes don’t kill” line was very OOC and patronising for her. It would’ve suited Snow or Emma but not Regina. “You’re better than that” or “don’t lower yourself to her level” would’ve felt more in line with Regina’s character. To say “heroes don’t kill” then a couple of scenes later threaten to kill Zelena if she steps out of line was very hypocritical.
[adrotate group="5"]All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixCan’t believe I’m saying this, but I would like to see OQ sort of have a “let’s start again” moment and actually have them re-introduce themselves to each other and pretend 3B and 4A never happened so that they are literally starting with a blank slate.
The idea behind OQ is a good one (a second chance at love after the death of a true love), however, where OQ has fallen short in the show for me is the execution. I don’t feel like OQ have emotionally connected, they’ve just kind of been thrown together “because pixie-dust says so”. If OQ start again, not only does it give the chance for them to be honest with each other, such as Regina actually mentioning the Marian imprisonment thing and even adding that it was nothing personal against Marian but was just because Marian helped Snow, but it also gives them the chance to emotionally connect on an actual level.
Have Regina talk about her past as the evil queen, have her express remorse for some of the things she has done because she has grown as a person, have her explain the Marian thing. Have Robin talk about his feelings and how he’s been affected by the Marian thing and whatever he’s worked out with Marian now in regards to Roland. There are so many levels they could take OQ if they actually gave the time to meaningfully develop it as a romantic relationship instead of just calling the two characters a couple and throwing them at the audience saying “accept it”. I wouldn’t mind if they showed OQ on a date actually getting to know each other. I’d also like for Regina to get some of her snark and sass back. I get that she’s obviously going to be a bit softer around Robin, much like Rumple is softer around Belle, however, 3B and 4A made Regina a bit too whiny and pining for my tastes.
So in conclusion, I think OQ has good potential, and I could potentially ship it, if only the writers would let them emotionally connect on a deeper level than they are doing now.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixWhat I mean is that Jim may get a newborn daughter in the coming season(s) that the audience will know eventually becomes Batgirl, not that we will ever see Batgirl in Gotham because Batman does come first.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixJim is supposed to have a daughter that becomes Batgirl so it’s possible that they are sowing the seeds for that in the next coming season(s).
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixAre they making a conscious effort to dress Maleficent like Zelena? It’s kinda bugging me, because I’d prefer Maleficent to have a unique look, but almost every set photo I do a double take thinking I’m looking at Zelena.
I wonder if they do actually reuse costumes especially those of characters that are no longer on the show.
I was watching clips of Once on youtube and in the flashback to It’s not easy being green, before Zelena turns green, Zelena is actually wearing one of Regina’s dresses in the dark castle.
@Watcher Love your new banner of all the villains.
4B actually looks to be shaping up to be really good. With the exception of Cruella, all the new characters have ties to previously established characters. It actually looks like it’s going to be more focussed around the main cast rather than the guest stars, and potentially it could be Once getting a little bit of its form back.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixIt’s been confirmed that it is Emilie de Ravin in the background of that pic.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI think everyone prefers living in Storybrooke because of the modern conveniences. They had the year in the EF and since then nobody has talked about going back.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixFor those who have been guessing, it was Robert Carlyle who I was doubling. Never thought I’d double him, but it worked out okay.
#onceuponatime #makingmovies #stuntdbl #setlife#greatguy
So Rumple’s got a stunt double. What do you think is going to happen that requires a stunt double rather than RC himself? Obviously an action scene but what sort of action scene?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixWill Hades make an appearence here POM? Or any other deceased characters like Cora or Graham or Pan?
A few deceased characters will be making an appearance 🙂 Definitely Cora. Probably not Pan because story-wise I can’t fit him in naturally and I’ve already got Cora so I don’t think it’d do either character justice to try and stick both characters in. Graham, I’m in two minds about, I’ll have to see where the story goes and if he fits in or not.
Hades won’t make an appearance but will be referenced (if I remember when I get to that chapter), Chernabog will be alluded to.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
