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Before we all begin talking about fav/least fav, Matt and I have one request. Any conversation about ethnicity and Lily/Agnes are not allowed in this thread. We have one already open. Please take that part of the conversation–if you are interested in it—there and NOT here.
Any attempt to discuss race and the Lily/Agnes situation will be deleted
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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
One more round of baby stuff. Done in Deborah Norville Premiere Yarn “Tea Roses”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Maybe the ink turns one into a caricature version of themselves.
Lord, keep it away from Snow and Charming then. They’re already pretty cartoony.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I like Mathew’s theory that it could even be BOTH the lilith myth and Swan Lake/Black Swan theory combined. But I do think there is in fact a Swan Lake connection, especially with August.
Well so do I. I think that’s far more likely since A and E like pop culture as well as mythology and I do think there is a Swan Lake connection, I haven’t said otherwise. I think just it’s a more tight connection than just Lily’s name and her supposed role in the film as the titular Black Swan (which she’s not, ultimately). I think it has to do with what A and E have said, if Emma goes dark (as she is), then Emma is the Black Swan, and Lily as the “ultimate evil/antagonist” is more a distraction until the big reveal. That doesn’t change anything you find about August.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Also, if you look up the cast list for Black Swan on IMDB or WIkipedia, Mila Kunis is credited as “lily/THE BLACK SWAN”–FYI Who cares about the actual plot of Nina being her own black swan.
You’d rather trust a list on a website than the actual plot before your eyes? She’s listed as the Black Swan because Nina sees her as such. Because to Nina she is the Black Swan and was set up in the narrative to be such (in the movie it self, Lily is also cast the Black Swan for the in show ballet) but is ultimately a red herring to the real Black Swan, Nina’s own psychosis and breakdown leading her to almost literally transform while dancing.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Agreed. I also think that the magic of the ink transformed her exterior to more aptly reflect her interior, which is of course, dark & evil.
I’d buy that. We’ve seen similar situations: ie, taking on the Dark’s One’s curse transforms not only the soul but also the outside to reflect what is now housed within.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Dr. Whale for instance is named after the director of the Frankenstein films, and Regina simply means Queen in Latin. There doesn’t have to be this deep exact parallel.
You’re right. There doesn’t. But Lilith + pentagram + apparently super evil lends itself to the mythological reading whereas Regina meaning queen in Latin is straightforward and without any hidden depth.
But you seem to be forcing this idea that if there is a connection to another story, like Black Swan or Swan Lake, there has to be a direct parallel:
You’re the one who’s connecting Lily/Emma/August to a ballet…I’m responding in kind. I’m not forcing anything that you haven’t set up in the first place
But I disagree, I don’t think there has to be a direct parallel to the movie. I think there is a small connection to the SWAN LAKE ballet and story on which the film is based and the name is just taken from the film just as Dr. Whales comes from the director of Frankenstein. That’s it. There are TONS!! of these minor connections and references scattered about the series, from random allusions to One Flew Over the Couckoo’s Nest to The Great Gatsby, neither of which have full parallels.
1) Trust me; I know all the references, though I disagree with the idea that the parallels are just small tiny ones. If you’ve listened to the recent podcast, I went on for some time about the Great Gatsby parallels and actually had to stop myself because we only have a certain amount of time.
2) You seem to be of two minds. You’re suggesting right now that it’s just a tiny little connection that you found. That’s fine. BUT in your OP you state
This could mean two things: Either it’s just a wink and a nod to Swan Lake and Black Swan, or maybe Lily is the real Emma and maybe the two were switched as babies. This would tie in the Odile disguise story line of Swan Lake and would explain why Emma looks more like Maleficent with her blond hair than the Charmings.
Another Swan Lake connection is August. Apparently Swan Lake was inspired by the German fairytale author Johann Karl AUGUST Musäus. This ties in with August’s connection with Emma Swan and the book. The show has also been glossing over August’s connection with the book and whether or not he is/was an author or if he’s ever written anything.
Which suggests that you think your tiny connection has a broader implication, ie: Emma is not Snowing’s daughter.
So which is it? Is Lily from the Black Swan and it’s only a small connection or does her name and the story as you see it have a larger part to play.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I have to agree with POM. I don’t think they were trying to portray her as a 20 year old. IMHO, I think it was her naivety, in regards to the outside world, and her excitement of finally being free of that attic, is what they were going for.
I think they were trying to make it muddy, as it were. They need her to be different–to appear younger in demeanor I guess is a good way to put it–but not get caught up in the pesky timeline issues.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
