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Self-depreciation is a character trait of Snow. As well as naivety apparently when it comes to trusting random people you’ve never met before such as Zelena. Mean Snow was great when she drank the potion to forget Charming but normal Snow thinks everything is her fault. Even though she had no other choice but to kill Cora, Snow still feels quilt over it because that is what any normal person with a clear conscience would feel over taking a life.
When in doubt, quote Screwball The One OUAT Essay You Have To Read According to Screwball the main thesis for the characters of OUAT is that they are constantly reliving their worst experiences. With Snow, this is watching her mother die and knowing that she chose not to sacrifice another life to save Eva. Because Snow literally had her mother’s life in her hands but chose not to act, Snow feels forever guilty about things other people do toward her. They are somehow all her fault, hence the constant apologizing. Her constant need to throw herself on the pyre, so to speak, is born out of guilt for “letting” her own mother die.
Refer to my other comment to PoM. It’s not the trait that gets to me. It’s the consequences of her breaking out of that trait to help herself, and how Regina’s character is portrayed in regards to that.
Neal treated Rumpel pretty badly, but Rumpel deserved it. However, if when Neal was alive, every time he didn’t hug his papa hello, he got a kick in the knees until he did, that’s arguably the show saying “Neal should treat his dad better. This is Karma.” But that’s not what happened. Neal wasn’t punished for what he did to Rumpel. No one tried or succeed in hurting Neal physically or emotionally every time Rumpel wasn’t forgiven. That’s why fans understood Neal’s predicament. However, in the same episode, I saw people on the “Kill Snow” bandwagon, for hurting Regina (TMD). It’s all about how those situation are portrayed. Like at the end of a fairytale when you’re given the moral.
Edit: Nevemind, RG. I saw your comment up top. Yeah…that’s how it feels to me. I’m sorry it all came out in such a ranty fashion.
[adrotate group="5"]Self-depreciation is a character trait of Snow. As well as naivety apparently when it comes to trusting random people you’ve never met before such as Zelena. Mean Snow was great when she drank the potion to forget Charming but normal Snow thinks everything is her fault. Even though she had no other choice but to kill Cora, Snow still feels quilt over it because that is what any normal person with a clear conscience would feel over taking a life.
But that’s not my issue. My issue is the show making it seem like more than a character trait. It makes it seem like Snow is wrong. As I said above. There are even consequences against Snow when she doesn’t apologize or accommodate Regina. Yes, a normal person would feel terrible, but Snow has consistently done this long before Cora. It’s just exhausting. It’s a character trait if she feels that way. It’s the message of the show if every time she doesn’t feel that way, she gets a slap to the face, and the antagonist is victimized, and then immediately forgiven again as if it’s nothing, while Snow is still left to be looked at like a monster. So, the scene is still ruined for me, and as long as Regina only has a good word to Snow when she’s sorry, it just sucks.
Okay…I’m sorry you guys. I can’t like this. I’m sorry.
I should like this scene, but I don’t…I can’t even begin to stop rolling my eyes.
I enjoy all of the bonding and crap, but I’m tired of self-depreciating Snow. I have never liked her as a character, but even I can see that she has never deserved the emotional beating she gives herself for Regina.
I’d be fine if it felt more like a character trait of hers, but it doesn’t. It’s gotten to the point where I feel like the show is telling us that Regina does deserve Snows niceness more than Snow deserves Regina’s. There have even been consequences for Snow every time she doesn’t gut herself for Regina’s favor. How many times past and future has Snow’s lack of forgiveness made Regina cry, and feel under appreciated, and go back to being bad (even for a couple eps)? Too freaking many. How many times have they shown that Regina is completely “justified” in not caring about ruining Snow’s life through her actions or otherwise? Too freaking many. I mean, even when Snow kills an obviously evil Cora to save her family, because it hurt Regina Snow must apologize, when for some time now, the murder of her father has been pushed under the rug? As if someone murdering your only remaining parent shortly after you witness your mother’s death, you are supposed to break your back t rehabilitate that person?
At this point, if Regina slapped Snow in the face, and hurt her hand while doing it, Snow would apologize for her face being too hard. It gets me even more because Snow was a kid to Regina, yet she’s still being treated like everything this woman did is her fault.
I’m not saying that Snow should shun Regina. I just think it’d be better if she treated Regina the way she treats Rumpel. It’s the “I accept you, and try to stand by you because you are my family, but you are a bastard, and It’ll take me a minute to like you like that” kind of treatment. It’s realistic, and human for goodness sake.
Or at the very least, just once, I would like her to not take it upon herself to apologize for Regina’s situation. She’s been doing it for the entire show. I’m tired of seeing it, and frankly, this conversation being based on her apology again completely ruins any happiness I would have had at Regina having character growth.
But you know what? Now it doesn’t even feel like Regina’s getting character growth. It just felt like Regina was once again content in having Snow admit that she was “wrong”. It’s the same game over and over again. Town likes me, I’m fine. Town doesn’t like me, I’m going to kill them with my mother. Why do you think they were able to play that fake out of her becoming evil again when everyone thought she’d cast curse no. 2? Because she’s already done it enough to make a fake out!
This is the same thing I felt about Rumpel not growing because Belle was being his conscience too much. So now, I’m putting this onto Regina, as well. I will not consider Regina redeemed or developed in any way in regards to Snow until she decides to take responsibility and maintain her goodness even when Snow and everyone else in the galaxy is saying “I’m not sorry, and I shouldn’t be”.
Sorry guys. I had to rant. This was three seasons of rant sitting on my chest. Sorry.
I don’t think we have any reason to believe that Regina was in hiding from Rumple…Cora didn’t need to hide her, as she’d gotten out of the contract (and possibly done some further mischief we don’t know about to Rumple–there still feels like some missing history). And let’s see…Cora was living a rather public life as Prince Henry’s wife (and thus we can infer a princess in her own right). Oh, and she marries Regina off, again, rather publicly, to a KING. Rumple was probably quite aware of all this. Keenly aware. Intensely aware. But he was clearly not aware of Zelena until he found her in Regina’s chambers.
I think that the contract gives even more weight to my theory. The show would have a serious issue if they didn’t address the fact that Cora DID NOT escape her contract. What she did was basically what Cinderella did. You heard it. The deal was changed. Cora can’t say “Oh yeah, we mutually agreed on a new contract, but I don’t feel like it anymore. So, I’m not paying.” She can’t get around it, and can’t amend it.
Also, there was barely ever a time at which Regina was any place Cora wasn’t aware of until the day Cora was pushed through the mirror. It was more than hinted to that she almost literally kept Regina on a leash, sometimes to the point of force. Yes, Cora put her daughter on display for her own personal gain, but Regina was never out of the way. So, for all intents, Cora was guarding her.
The day the letter was left for Cora could have been the day that Regina’s mother had let her guard down, and Rumpel finally got the chance to make a plan, and get near to her. I still believe that Regina found the letter in Cora’s stuff, after the “murder”.
I don’t know…I just kinda think it would make more sense than Regina somehow getting to Wonderland before she even knew magic like that, and finding the letter there. Then, they’d have to explain why Regina didn’t question her mother’s belongings being there, or why Cora didn’t make a move while Regina (or someone who knew Regina) was in the vicinity. Even if that wasn’t the case, what people are suggesting about getting the letter to/from Wonderland would take a little time to explain well. Most likely, time that A and E won’t spend because they’re focusing on everything else. I’m just scared of crowding in more plot points, and contrived writing.The only way I’d see this as being Zelena’s is if Regina somehow got to the letter before it was sent to Wonderland. Even so, I enjoy more the idea that Zelena was so desperate that she’d even mistake her sister’s praise for her own.
But that’s the thing. It doesn’t say that this letter was sent while Regina was being trained. “Finding” someone doesn’t mean actually meeting them.
It could have been that Rumpel finally discovered Regina’s location, and decided to gloat about it to Cora. He could have sensed the magical power in Regina, before their meeting even occurred.
Then, Regina possibly found Rumpel’s letter to Cora after she’d “killed” her. This perhaps, softened her resolve, and made her strive more toward magic, knowing that Rumpel admired what she could be.
I wonder where her magic came from if it’s just the Scarecrow, or a random guy. Magic can be either learned, or given though spells or curses, as far as I’ve seen. Zelena was magically powerful since she was a toddler. That’s not a thing to happen without explanation. So, I don’t think the dad is Rumpel, but I do think that her dad is an incredibly magical being.
I may be the only one, but I still believe that the letter is about Regina. I think this whole thing is a fake out. We saw first hand that Rumpel just thought of Zelena as a fly to be played with, and then swatted away. He really showed no interest in her due to her annoyingly obsessive behavior. He had this attitude toward her like “You’re fun and all, but I already have a child to find and raise. Don’t need another one. Shoo.”
So, I’m thinking that this letter was sent to Cora before Rumpel knew that Regina wasn’t Cora’s first born. Thus, there will be a revelation when Rumpel reveals to Regina that the letter really was all about her. Of course she’ll find her inner strength, blah blah.
Anyone else think so?
Is it bad that I completely agree with you, Mickstemp?
You just took the words out of my mouth. As soon as the show closed, this was every thought that came to mind. I also respect everyone who believes differently, but I can’t justify the poor handling of Neal’s death. I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one.
My only issue with it being the AU wherein Regina was never born, is that Hook has changed also. For Hook to be all chipper like he is (and possibly have two hands), something waaaaay before Regina had to happen.
Well, if he stays dead, I completely agree with marty mcfly. I posted this in “Hope? Maybe?”, but I have to put it here:
…His death didn’t belong in this episode, because it was just a tack on to it. Everything felt very rushed, and Hook was already acting like Neal was dead before he’d even died. It was like they were just trying to get it over with. I feel as though they ended Nealfire as if he could have never existed at all, when that isn’t true. There are four plot making characters in this show:
Rumpelstiltskin: The man who created the curse, to save the child he abandoned.
Regina: The woman who cast the curse to avenge her lover.
Baelfire/Neal Cassidy: The child who was the cause for the curse. Who travelled through dimensions to save himself, to save his family, and escape making his father’s mistake.
Emma: the child destined to break the curse, and free a town of people from enslavement.
Even if the show didn’t promote Nealfire as much, his death was still insultingly played down, and ignored any of the significance he had. It’s been revealed that MRJ didn’t have other arrangements, and it was just plot that killed him. So, now I feel that there was no excuse to not give Neal a better goodbye. I guess that the only way they can fix this now is through the impact of his death on everyone else.
Knowing that MRJ didn’t have to leave just makes me angrier about the execution of his death. It almost feels now as if they were just trying to hurriedly move him out of the way for someone else. I’m sorry, but the quick “Oh, yeah, Emma. I know we have true love, and all, but you can be happy without me” bit right before he kicks the bucket is a message to the audience. Now, I can’t help but wonder if he’s been taken out of the picture for a ship. If so, why do that? Neither of them had to die for that. Making it an easy choice, by killing one of the prospects (who happens to be her true love, a son, the father of her child, and the child that the reason for this show) is such poor writing, it amazes me. He died for almost nothing. Zelena was on the brink of being caught even without Rumpel’s contribution. Yes, they’d be joined for a bit. Yes, Rumpel would have been crazy, but the Charmings always find a way, and Belle is practically a genius.
Especially the grossness factor. You have killed Nealfire so that his true love can be with the man who had an adulterous affair with his mother, and was a pretty sizeable reason that he never knew her. Effectively having Hook “saving” lovers from Neal and his father? It’s just…*shiver*. I like Hook now. I didn’t at first, but he’s a good guy now. But, that is still just a terrible thing to do. What is the moral here? Even if Neal didn’t end up with Emma, it would have been better than death.
That, is of course, if that’s the case. Even if not, there’s still no excuse for this bad send off.
