[sweetgrass]

I’ve been thinking of a couple of things I would like to see next season, but I don’t expect to see them.

 

1.  I would like for Killian to have kept drawings done by Milah and Bae while they were on his ship.  I would like to see him share some of Bae’s drawings with Henry and Rumple (kinda).  For Rumple, either Henry would show Rumple some of drawings with Rumple or Rumple hears them watches Hook and Henry go through some of the drawings at  Granny’s.  Belle might even ask if Rumple can join them.  I would like Rumple being snarky about all the pirate, pirate ship and even Hook drawings, but then get very emotional over a drawing of the old Stiltskin hovel with him spinning at the hearth when he was just a poor spinner with no power, but Bae’s papa, showing that Bae never forgot or stopped loving his papa.  I could see Carlyle (sp?) play the hell out of that scene.  I would then like it if Hook and Rumple talk about Bae and it deepens their truce.  See for me, I think Hook would know who Bae as a person was, far more than Rumple.   Rumple was too busy trying to secure Bae’s love and safety that he couldn’t see what Bae needed or really wanted.  Hook could and Rumple would want to know what his son was like.

You know I think I will write a fan fic on this.

2.  I like Hook and Regina being frienemies.  They are good together.  The snark flies well between them and they have similarities.  So the scene I would want is for Hook to ask Regina what she felt the morning after she thought she had killed Snow.  Did she feel empty like he did when he thought he had killed Rumple?  Hook may want to know to see how dangerous Regina is, but it is also a chance for Regina to show some regret and make her not so psycho.

 

 

[sweetgrass]

Count me in as someone who can empathize with Milah.  I wouldn’t have made the choices she did but I understand her and feel that fandom has generally been unfair to her and way too forgiving of Rumple.

Rumple killed Milah and maimed Hook because he wanted to, because he wanted to punish Milah for leaving him and Hook because Milah loved Hook and not him.  Rumple crushed Milah’s heart after she told Hook she loved him.  He acted in a jealous rage.  It wasn’t to get the bean.  Milah offered Rumple the bean in exchange for an amicable separation.  If Rumple cared more about getting to Bae than punishing Milah, he would have said they had a deal and  been done with it.  Instead, Rumple acted like he had a deal so that he could get close to the bean but never actually said he did.  Just like he never agreed not to hurt Zelena with Belle when he proposed.  For me Rumple was  always intent on punishing them. He probably was planning on killing Hook but Milah told him the truth and he couldn’t handle it.

Warning! The following is a long winded defense of Milah.  It may anger some but I think it needs to be said.

Rumple and Milah’s marriage was loveless on the part of both parties.  We never saw Rumple take Milah’s needs, welfare or happiness into account.   He didn’t truly love her.  If he did, he would have wanted and would have worked to give her a better life.  Rumple always got his way.  He was the one that decided that he would go to war; he was the one that  decided to doom his family to outcast status, he was the one that decided that they would stay in a town where they had no hope for a better life, and because he maimed himself that left Milah to do all the hard back breaking work.  She was probably the one that had to fetch the water (water weighs a lot and would have to be carried some distance in a pre-plumbing area) and do any other difficult physical labor.  She probably had to be the one to bargain with the other families to sell whatever she and Rumple had to provide, no one was going to deal with the coward himself.  She probably had to bargain hard and get very little of the worth of what they did because of the status Rumple chose for his family.  Make no mistake Rumple chose the status of his family.  He was an anchor around her neck.  She had to do everything herself and got no support from anyone only ridicule.  So she lashed out verbally at him.  I don’t have a problem with that.  I understand it.  The better option was to leave him and take Bae with her, but it looks like that option might not have been available in the EF.  The only thing left to her was to become: an alcoholic harpy (who probably would have killed herself or Rumple over time) or  leave Rumple.  Rumple wasn’t a partner to Milah; he made bad decisions and didn’t try to rectify the situation.  He expected Milah to meekly accept these decisions.  I don’t blame Milah for being angry. She has every right to be.  I don’t blame her for verbally lashing out at Rumple.   It’s weird to me how for many its ok for Rumple to physically lash out at anyone who made his life difficult, but somehow it is so much worse that anyone would taunt Rumple.  It’s not. Nothing Milah did in any way justified or even approached in magnitude murdering Milah.  As far as I am concerned, Rumple bears the lion share of the blame for the failure of his marriage.  I would say 80%.

My sister had a friend in high school, who was smart and creative.  Her father became a drug addict.  They lived in a nice house but over time, every nice thing they had was gone because the father went through the money, the retirement accounts, the savings, college funds, the  furniture, everything, leaving the family NOTHING. He was an anchor drowning his family, just like Rumple was doing to Milah.  Even worse, Rumple being the manipulative little sneak probably was passive aggressive and probably tried to guilt Milah for treating him bad  because he crippled himself.  Dude would not and does not get any sympathy from me because he crippled himself, just like the father abused drugs.

The only thing Milah did that was wrong was leaving Bae, but even then she left him with a loving parent, whereas Rumple basically abandoned Bae to an unknown world.  What he did was worse.  I actually don’t find Rumple’s childhood as an excuse for any of his actions.  Malcolm left Rumple with two kindly women who cared about Rumple before Malcolm became twisted Pan.

 

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

I only watched the last two or three episodes of Wonderland.   I had a question:  Is it possible that Hook and the Knave know each other from when Hook went to Wonderland to kill Cora?

Also I think I read some where that Will had a sister that drowned in a lake.  Is that right?

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

Agree POM and epona.  I was fairly indifferent to Neal and only started to warm to him at the end on Season 3A.  I felt for him and truthfully want MRJ to have a successful career, but the way some of SF act, it makes me hope that Neal never comes back to the show in flashbacks or anything else because it will only wind them up for another round of Hook bashing.  It’s like they hate Hook and blame him for Neal’s death.  They take any word or action of Hook and twist it into something very ugly.  For example “I will win your heart” becomes I will ignore your wishes and make mine.   “I will win your heart” is a phrase that I’ve seen since I was a kid and always took it as “I will become/show you that I am the kind of man you can love”.  Nothing dastardly about that.  When Hook offers to step aside to give Neal a chance with Emma, I thought that SF fans would be over the moon with happiness and like Hook.  Instead they were angry with Hook for giving Neal fair warning that if Emma was not able to let go of the hurt Neal inflicted on her, then Hook would purse her.  I think it was good of Hook to clearly spell out his intentions.   Neal doesn’t get dibbs on Emma because he knocked her up over a decade ago.   Hook being steadfastedly at Emma’s helping her, becomes he’s harassing her and forcing himself on her.  No matter that she sought him out on occasions.

It is hard for me because it not only impacts my view of Neal but of Rumple as well.  Because so many of the SF fans are hardcore Rumple fans (so much so I thought initially it was their love of Rumple that was buoying their love of Neal) that it makes me root against Rumple’s happy ending.  POM you give me hope on that front, since I know you are a hardcore SF fan, so who knows maybe I will like Rumple again.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

Given how A&E are such Star Wars fan boys, I think that Elsa will freeze Hook, Emma will need to rescue him and when he thaws out he might be blind temporarily.  I wonder if the scene of Hook looking at the mirror in Rumple’s vault will have any significance because in the Snow Queen an evil mirror causes problems.  I haven’t watched Frozen so I can’t speculate too much on how it impacts StoryBrooke.  I don’t see Elsa being evil or getting a significant others.  Little kids relate to her too much.

I think Regina will become a bitter again.  I can see her trying to make Emma’s life difficult.  I can see her being the reason Hook gets frozen.  I see Henry being a modulating influence.  It will be interesting to see how Henry treats his two mothers.

I think Rumple will feel guilty about deceiving Belle, especially since she will be all lovey dovey.  Out of guilt I see him pulling away from her.  Belle will figure out he has lied to her.  There will be angst.  She realizes she needs to be away from Rumple.  Hopefully, we will see her develop a life outside of Rumple.

For Emma, I hope to see her bonding with her parents, especially her mom over her sibling.  I want Emma and Hook to have at least two episodes where they giddy happy in love — holding hands, kissing — before everything gets crazy again. I want to see Rumple and Regina being snarky about it.

By the ends  of the season, I hope that Hook has developed hobbies or interests outside of Emma. I hope that Henry and Emma encourage him.  The original Hook was supposed to be very smart and Barie would later state Hook was member of England’s most elite university.  Hook  loved music and literature.  Even in Peter Pan the movie, Hook played the piano.  Since Colin loves music, it could be a good and easy fit.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

Seriously loved it. I loved how all the main characters were involved and used  in the story. I loved the minor stars cameo (Red, Archie, Grumpy).  There were two little things that I would change but can totally live with:

1.  Moe’s sudden change of heart.

2.  Naming the baby Neal.  I think its weird that the baby is named after his sister’s ex.  Very weird.  But a smart move because Rumple may be more protective of his son’s namesake.

The Rumbelle wedding kinda cracked me up.  I was having Charmed flashbacks to Pheobe’s and Cole’s wedding, and Belle’s wedding dress was interesting.  I did like what they said to each other it was touching.  I also thought it appropriate that it was a very small wedding.

I loved that Aurora was fine and from what Grumpy was saying, it sounds like her baby is ok.

I loved that except for that moment when introducing themselves to Midas Hook was pretty smart.

I loved the Snowing relationship.

I liked how they worked in Blackbeard.

Actually, there was one more thing I wasn’t totally happy with.  I really didn’t want Hook to give up his ship.  His ship is such a part of him.

I am interested to see how Regina acts next season.

ETA:  Totally loved Katherine with Charming.  She was awesome and I loved how she kinda cowed him.

 

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

  Too bad. We’ll be enjoying it while the haters can hide in their gloomy caves or whatever, only coming out to harass Adam (cause you know that’s already started). Apparently  A and E are now promoting  abuse because the show is having Emma “give in” to Hook after saying NO to him repeatedly. I didn’t hear any No’s from Emma, who is perfectly capable of shutting down permanently and painfully anyone   who messes with her. Where do people come up with this crap?

Wow! I saw that and was angered.  Really? CS promotes a rape culture? Really?  Hook has never forced himself on Emma and never would.  He has placed her and her family above his own needs/desires, even though they still treat him with suspicion.    Hook has expressed complete faith in her and wants her to fully accept herself.  he wants her to lead a fully her life based on truth and embrace her potential, not to sink herself into a world of self deception that robs her of her heritage and true potential.  I also agree that he has not been pestering her for a date or a relationship.  Emma has sought him out to watch over Henry and flirted with him in the diner.

DO NOT READ IF YOU ARE A MAJOR RUMBELLER…(no spoilers, but HYPOCRISY ALERT)

 A lot of these people are the same ones that promote RumBelle.  You know the relationship where the guy literally forces the girl to leave her family, keeps her completely isolated, has her sleep in a dungeon, later keeps her from reuniting with her family (probably because he doesn’t want her to know he beat her father to a pulp and to limit the options Belle has to live without him and which denies her her heritage and family), lies to her about not killing, kills all the time and not in self-defense, never puts her above his own needs (whether for power or vengeance).  If you like Rumbelle, I don’t see how you can have a problem with CS or see it as worse relationship when it comes to a treatment of women.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

Completely agree, Jenna_B and RumpleGoldFan.

The fan service argument used to drive me up a wall, especially since RumBelle is clearly the ship that was created because of the popularity with the fans.  Hook was made a regular before his first episode even aired unlike Emile.

The argument that bugs me right now is that Neal died to make way for CS.  That I don’t get.  All Emma has to do is make a choice and that is the ship that sails.  If A&E want CS, Neal wasn’t going to stop that.  If any story required the death of Neal, its Rumple’s and Rumbelle’s arc.  It is the only way to keep Rumple interesting and hopefully breathe some life into Rumbelle as Belle will finally have to truly acknowledge Rumple’s dark side.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

I went in with low expectations, like I’ve done for the last episodes and ended up enjoying the episode.

I saw the mega spoilery excerpt with Regina taking down Zelena so that might have prepared me. I like the underlying message that  everyone has a choice to become a better person and embrace a better future.  I think it is realistic that some people can’t embrace a brighter future because they can only see themeselves by how they have been previously defined.  Zelena grew up with a “father” that always thought her magic was evil.  Zelena internalized that and can’t see herself as something other than evil.   I liked that Rumple told her nothing would change because she was the same person.  I liked that Regina refused to be defined by Zelena.

However, while I feel most people deserve redemption and opportunity to grow and change, I think that people should also be held accountable for their deeds and face the consequences of their actions.  That is where I have trouble with Regina becoming the bearer of the strongest white magic. It’s way too much and far too soon.  Actually, I don’t think Regina or Rumple should ever be capable of white magic.  Through her use of dark magic, Regina has gotten everything and I actually found it rich that she would lecture both Rumble and Zelena about seeking revenge,  especially since Regina is now good because she got her son and a new love (Robin).  Her experience shows the exact opposite.  If Zelena had killed Henry you know Regina would want revenge as well.

I think the writers need to do a better job making sure that everyone gets to shine when they take down a villain.  I want the non-magical people that bring down the villain.

I think the thing with this show is that if you go with the flow and not think too deeply it works.  The cast is stellar.  I loved the pained expression on Rumple’s face when he is hugging Belle.  He knows what he is going to do will break her heart and that pains him, but not enough to stop him.  Belle has always had a huge blind spot when it comes to Rumple.  Hopefully this will open her eyes and she can become a more interesting character.  Rumple has always played her by doing things behind her back, so to me this is more of the same.  And hopefully, Rumple goes back to being his sneaky manipulative self.

I actually think that the planned Rumple arc is why Bae needed to die for story reasons.  Rumple works best when he is being manipulative and when he is mostly pursuing his own interests and Carlyle wants to play tormented evil Rumple.   Rumple reverting to his darker impulses makes sense with Bae’s death.  It also makes the Rumple Belle relationship interesting.

I loved Charming in this episode, although his suggestion that Emma take Hook was not a bright one.  Hook is the one person that can take Emma’s powers.  I did like that Regina and Emma erected a magic barrier.

I felt for Hook at the end as he watched the Charming family.  Hook can’t catch a break no matter what he does.

I liked the Oz flashbacks.  I wonder if the totems also represents the witches –love/heart, brain/wisdom, innocence/baby charming and I forgot what Glenda was but wonder if it ties into courage.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

[sweetgrass]

the original airing of Good Form was hurt because the World Series was at the same time for some of the time zones.  So it didn’t do well initially.

jolly roger was odd because it did crack the top 20 of all shows watched that week according to Adam’s tweet, but the ratings were lower than before because of spring break.

i also think that most very casual viewers will give an arc 4episodes to see if they like where the arc is going and if they want to watchh the rest.  I think never land started to drag in the 4th episode which then impacted Hook’s episode.  I the the old west confrontation between evil and wicked was a little anti climatic.

Keeper of Hook and Emma's smoldering first kiss, a certain Pirate's sauciness, the Evil Queen's snarkiness, Grumpy's gruffness and a drop of true love to make it all go down smooth.

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