“Bleeding Through” – ONCE145

Ghost of Cora (3x18 Bleeding Through) Once Upon a Time podcast

In an attempt to find out what really happened in the past, Regina casts a simple ritual to summon her mother, Cora, after the Wicked Witch succeeded in stealing her heart. In the Enchanted Forest during the past, a man who claimed to be a prince asked for young Cora’s hand in marriage, only to get tricked, leaving her with a child.

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We only have four episodes left for the third season but what a mind-bending episode that was, and maybe a bit confusing.

Enchanted Forest (Past)

Jonathon the gardener (3x18 Bleeding Through)

Starting at the tavern in the past with Cora, it was nice hearing people cheering for Cora, which pretty much how we feel seeing her again. In the scene, young Cora said some essential lessons, “Act like what you plan to be, so I try to be a little better than what I am.” Where exactly is Cora at the time? Jonathan said that he has been visiting for a week. If he’s not from that kingdom, then where is he from?

Young Cora and Leopold (3x18 Bleeding Through)

Clever reference when Jonathan said that he will turn the straw into gold. Perhaps that’s where Cora got her idea in “The Miller’s Daughter”? Then again, did she not learn anything from Frozen to never marry someone you just met that day? But poor Cora, clearly she was duped by the man who claimed to be a prince two weeks later, and was left alone and pregnant. However, a real prince, Leopold, came to rescue young Cora. How old was Leopold when we saw him later? The two actors look the same age but how old exactly was he when we later saw him in another episode?

Moreover, Leopold said that he and Eva has been engaged since she was born. It seemed that Cora and Leopold actually liked each other, so did Leopold even loved Eva? Or did they eventually fall in love with each other?

This also pretty much confirmed that Zelena’s father was neither Leopold nor Rumple.

I hope there isn’t anything more to Jonathan, because I enjoy having him be just some random guy. Although something tell me that there could be something more, but I really hope they don’t go that route.

— Sage_Of_Earth

Is there more to him than just being a random gardener?

I’m totally okay with him being a random jerk, but I’m hung up on HOW magical Z is. How does a jerk gardener and the miller’s peasant daughter produce the most magical creature of all time? I’m sure we’re done with the storyline, but it does make me wonder if he could be a wizard of sorts.

— ArtseeDiva

How did Zelena get all her powers? Is this Jonathan guy have magical abilities of some sort? Hopefully, we get some answers to this particular question in the remaining four episodes.

King Leopold mentioned that Princess Eva was from the Northern Kingdom. Is this before The Miller’s Daughter? If they knew each other then, why didn’t they recognize Cora in the Miller’s Daughter when Eva tripped her? Or where they simply ignoring her at the time? How long have Cora and Eva known each other? There seems to be a bit of bitterness in Cora’s expression at the mention of her name.

Where were their kingdoms located exactly? If Princess Eva was from the Northern Kingdom, South of that could be where Prince Leopold’s kingdom was located. South of that is also possibly the same hall where Princess Eva was laid to rest, the same tower where Rapunzel met her family after being rescued by Charming. South of that is Prince Henry and King Xavier’s kingdom, where Cora met them in the Miller’s daughter. Perhaps Cora was banished into another kingdom for lying to Prince Leopold and went to King Xavier’s, where we picked up next in The Miller’s Daughter? A map would definitely be helpful if Adam Horrowitz and Edward Kitsis can provide us some. Here is a brief map of the Enchanted Forest that we got from the episode, Skin Deep. Can you make out their kingdoms by looking at how the castles look like?

Tactical map from "Skin Deep" (1x12)

Tactical map from “Skin Deep” (1×12)

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Young Cora admires her ring (3x18 Bleeding Through)

Much to young Cora’s excitement, Princess Eva discovered her secret and told Leopold of what’s to come down between Cora and the gardener. In the episode “The Queen Is Dead,” Cora said to a dead Eva, “It won’t be just you I’ll destroy, it will be your legacy.” This just proved why Cora had such bad blood with Snow’s mother. Furthermore, the innuendos in this episode wasn’t too family-friendly for a theme. Is it right that Eva told Leopold of Cora or was it completely justified? After all, Cora has been keeping her pregnancy to Leopold the moment they met. If Cora did love Leopold, why didn’t she just tell him of her condition. He would have even helped her for sure had she been truthful to him.

I have a wild theory that Jonathan is going to turn out to be the Scarecrow. My reasoning: Jonathan is a gardener (Scarecrows go in gardens/fields); when he revealed himself as being a bad guy to Cora, there was what looked like a pitchfork beside him; can’t remember the direct line, but Cora mentioned something about his brain, taking out his brain (the Scarecrow wants the Wizard to give him a brain); Jonathan gave Cora a straw ring. So I think that Zelena, through the Wizard, found/finds out who her father is and as punishment turns him into a Scarecrow.

Please tell me someone else saw all these connections?

— Stacie

Did future Zelena turn his own biological father into a scarecrow as punishment? When Cora left baby Zelena, baby Zelena started to get emotional. Does that trigger the tornado? But if she could magic even as a baby, then why the need of the jeweled shoes? Why not just transport herself to where she needs to be? Why did Cora left the baby in the woods instead of giving it away or leaving it at a doorstep?

Before Cora left baby Zelena, Cora said something like, “I must give you away, to give me my best chance”, clearly twisting the line Emma told Henry in one of the earlier episodes back in the first season, where she said that she wanted to give her son his best chance.

Back to the tornado that happened that swept Zelena to Oz, is it possible that cyclones come for those who feel unloved, much like Peter Pan’s pied piper where the music is being heard only by young boys who feel unloved?

Ok, so one thing that I have been trying to wrap my mind around…is Zelena the Product of True Love?  As they’ve touched on, the Product of True Love is born with magic, as we’ve seen with Emma, and it’s clear that Zelena has had magic since birth as well, but Jonathan and Cora were clearly not in love with each other, so is true love in a romantic sense only plausible at the least of the two people being soulmates because if so then that would explain why Zelena was born with magic.

— DeAndre

How did Zelena end up having natural magical abilities? If Emma being powerful was because she was born out of true love, is it possible for Zelena to be the exact opposite?

Well I think that the twister was summoned by present Zelena while trying to change the past and prevent Cora from abandoning her baby self. The past was already changed.

— TheSwanPrincess

This episode disprove one of our theories that the baby seen in ‘It’s Not Easy Being Green’ was Snow and Charming’s. Still, why is Snow and Charming’s baby so important to the Wicked Witch’s plan?

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Storybrooke (Present)

Basket of apple's at Regina's door (3x18 Bleeding Through)

Moving on to the present, Zelena visits her little sister by bringing her green apples. Despite tormenting Regina, Zelena seemed to inspire Regina by telling her that she doesn’t appreciate everything that she has, which later pushed her to finally take a risk with the man with the lion tattoo.

Zelena told Regina that she doesn’t know what really went down with their mother’s past. Does Zelena know what happened? If so, how much does she know?

Arrow pointing to Roland's face (3x18 Bleeding Through)

Out in the woods with the merrymen and Rumple, we finally get to see Friar Tuck, a man of the ax. Rumple, on the other hand, had a strange mix of evil and reluctance when trying to get Regina’s heart from Robin Hood. How did Rumple and Zelena know that Robin Hood had Regina’s heart?

Regina, on the other hand, was very understanding even if the Dark One and the Wicked Witch had gotten what they want; looked like Regina truly is reformed. Or is she? On the other hand, Zelena is controlling the Dark One using the dagger, what if Rumple just said ‘No?’

I hope Rumple finds a way to over come the dagger’s control. love is the most powerful magic of all and is strength Maybe by sheer will power and his love for Belle will help him fight against being controlled long enough to grab the dagger. Like Knave did when he broke through the invisable wall to kiss Ana.

— HooksGirl

Belle holding Lumiere in pawn shop (3x18 Bleeding Through)

Regina then goes to Mr. Gold’s shop and ransacked his shop to hopefully find the candle that could help her stop Zelena. At first, Belle seemed uncooperative, even having sort of a delayed-reaction dealing with everything that she went through in the past. It was nice though that Regina apologized to whatever she did to Belle.

Speaking of the candle, the first candle that Belle picked up first was actually Lumiere from the episode, Quiet Minds. Moreover, the ‘Liberace’ reference was also of Wladziu Valentino Liberace 1919–87, a U.S. pianist and entertainer.

Regina told Belle that she protected her heart from being controlled. How?

So, hearts are annoying. The problem is that, while the concept is cool (albeit slightly twisted), it is never definite. So, it’s first defined as being able to be ripped out to crush it. THEN you can control it. THEN you can speak into it. THEN you can speak while holding it (from WL). THEN you can cast an enchantment to stop people from ripping it out (which, WHY DID REGINA NOT DO THIS TO HERSELF? SHE DID TO HENRY! IS THERE A RULE THAT YOU CAN’T DO IT WHEN YOU’RE OVER 18?!). THEN you can cast an enchantment to stop people from controlling you with it. Next, you can cast an enchantment to stop people from crushing it. I bet you this. But why can’t they have clear heart rules? Why are there so many loopholes? Why is this the only show in which we can discuss the laws of magical hearts?

— Corbin

How did Regina protect her heart from being controlled? Can the heart be summoned?

Speaking of summoning, Regina asked Emma, Hook, Charming and Snow to join her in a séance to speak with her mother in the hopes of finally getting some answers regarding Zelena. Some expressed some discomfort about resorting to witchcraft by performing a séance instead of using magic. Although technically, both magic and witchcraft are bad, we found some interesting answers from Yahoo! Answers.

Doing the séance was like playing Clue. Did Hook bump the table on purpose?

Zelena with Regina's heart (3x18 Bleeding Through)

At the same time, Zelena was preparing for finally having Regina’s heart. She said that Regina’s is a battered heart. What exactly does she mean?

Zelena's box closed (3x18 Bleeding Through)

Zelena’s chest says, “To: W. B. S … 14-25-27th … West” Joel did some digging and come up with the following:

I can’t make out exactly what it says but it looks like it could possible be an address of some sort.
To: W.B. – only thing I could think of is Warner Bros., the production company of the 1939 version of The Wizard of Oz.

Under that it looks like it says 1425 – 27th, not sure what this could be, but at the bottom it clearly says WEST, as in Wicked Witch of the West

***Completely random side note: I plugged “1425-27th West” into google maps and the first thing that came up was an address for 1425 27th Street, West Vancouver. This address is 40 minutes away from Steveston, where Once Upon a Time is filmed. Here’s a picture of the house at that address. Looks very Storybrookey.

IMG6446

— Joel

The way Zelena is treating Rumple reminds us of how Regina controls the huntsman back in the first season. Zelena told Rumple that “Magic doesn’t fail. People fail.” She also told him that her plan was to actually go back and change the past, even dangling Baelfire in front of Gold’s face to try and make him cooperate.

As Snow helps Regina, the door suddenly blocked out, as if Cora was trapping them inside. Both also got a nice apology to each other, even admitting that it was complicated.

Magical hole in Regina's wall (3x18 Bleeding Through)

It was great what they were doing with Regina and Snow; how they’re relationship is starting to mend, Regina being protective of the baby as soon as the missing door opened, Regina’s first instinct was to protect Snow’s belly. It was very endearing seeing her protect Snow from her mother; very much like how she was turning back into the old Regina before she met young Snow.

It was cool what they did with young Cora when her face was revealed from the missing door. They make her look a bit like Barbara Hershey.

Why is Snow and Charming’s baby so important? Clearly, the baby was conceived in the Enchanted Forest and was to be born in Storybrooke, making her a baby of both worlds. Not even Emma can claim as she was conceived and born in the Enchanted Forest. Does Zelena have some spell that she can only cast in Storybrooke with the baby?

When they were discussing baby names, where did they get Emma’s name anyway?

Maybe the reason it has to be this baby is that it will be born during the dark curse? That could make it special somehow, like a “cursed baby”. It would explain why Zelena wants Emma to lose her magic: Emma, as the saviour, is the only one who can break the curse. And if it’s broken, the baby won’t be cursed anymore and the time travel spell won’t work. It also explains why Zelena cast the curse in the first place.

— HeartofDarkness

Angela suggested that the new baby is going to be Dorothy. Thoughts?

At Granny’s Diner, Emma seemed to be having so much fun using her magic. But so far, Emma hasn’t displayed any “color” magic. When people ‘poof’ things, there is normally a color smoke. But not Emma.

Zelena talks to Rumple at dinner (3x18 Bleeding Through)

One of the things that has been brought up during Zelena and Rumple‘s dinner was her revealing her plan of travelling back in time to reunite him with his son, Baelfire. However, it was so courageous of Rumple for trying to steal his dagger back as he was buttering her up. Clearly, he knew deep down that Zelena still liked him.

I think Rumple should be the one to kill Zelena because he is the one that lost the most because of her. Charming’s lost his courage, Regina’s lost her heart but Rumple lost his son. Zelena was certainly giving Rumple an eyeful in that dress. I don’t think she’d fall for his schemes again, Zelena’s a bit of a bunnyboiler, when she feels wronged by someone, she will go out of her way to make their life as unpleasent as possible.

— PriceOfMagic

Will Rumple be the one to kill Zelena? He is the Dark One and lost the most because of everything that Zelena did, after all.

Regina and Snow having a heart-to-heart as they were cleaning up again after Cora possessed Snow to show her what really happened was probably the best make-up we’ll get between Regina and Snow.

Snow told Regina feels things deep with her whole soul, even without her heart. Despite not having her heart, Regina was still able to love. Will this be how she can defeat Zelena? By being stronger even if the Wicked Witch holds her heart? Does that what makes her special?

I think that Zelena will succeed in getting all the ingredients, including the baby, but Regina’s resilient heart will resist the spell. After all, Regina still kissed Robin, and appeared to still feel for him even when she didn’t have her heart. Also, I predict a Rumbelle reunion in either the next episode or episode 20. No idea if they will or not, I just think they will. Hopefully it doesn’t end with Zelena ordering Rumple to kill Belle…again. That would be depressing! And I might cry. But, that’s beside the point! When it happens, remember that I used my foresight to predict the future! ;)

Thanks for doing a fun and entertaining podcast! You guys are awesome! No one in my family really like Once, so having someone to share my random theories with is awesome! And Jenny, having you back for the initial reactions was great! :)

— Charis

Is Regina’s resilient heart the key to defeating the Wicked Witch? Or is working with Emma, the savior, more powerful? How can Regina feel something like this love without her heart?

Where was Henry in this episode? Peevesie from Indian thought this episode was brilliant for one reason — Henry was not in it. Well, they did mention him.

Joel shared two pictures on Regina’s wall in her study/library, which were done by the same artist and both depicting scenes of Greek/Roman mythology.

Emma and Hook in Regina's house (3x18 Bleeding Through)

bernard-picart-semele-is-consumed-by-jupiters-fire-1731-408436

There is a picture on the wall behind Emma as she is entering the room where Regina is about to summon Cora. The picture on the wall is a painting by Bernard Picart entitled “Semele is Consumed by Jupiter’s Thunder” (1731). Jupiter is the Roman equivalent of the Greek god Zeus. In Greek Mythology, Semele was a mortal woman that Zeus fell in love with and began to visit in secret, felt only as a devine presence, because as a god he could not truly reveal himself to her without consequence. Hera, Zeus’ wife, discovered this relationship after Semele had become pregnant by Zeus. Being jealous, Hera disguised herself as an old woman and befriended Semele who then confessed to Hera that Zeus was her lover. Hera tried to convince Semele that she couldn’t possibly be involved with Zeus and placed doubt in Semele’s head. Being curious Semele asked Zeus for a favor. Zeus told her that he would grant her anything that she desired. Semele asked Zeus if he would reveal himself in his true form to her. Zeus asked her not to make this request because he knew what the consequence would be. But because he had made an oath to Semele, Zeus showed his true self to her and she instantly was incinerated. (This is the scene that the picture is portraying). Zeus however was able to rescue the fetus from Semele and he sewed the fetus into his own thigh. That child was Dionysus, or in Roman Mythology Bacchus.

Neat story and all but how is it relevant? There are vague similarities with this week’s backstory involving Cora: Scandalous pregnancy, jealous wife/fiancé, forbidden love and heartache.

Where it gets interesting is when you look into Dionysus, the child to be in this picture. After doing some research I ran across several very interesting comparisons between Dionysus and Rumpel. Not saying the writer’s are using mythology, these are just some simple similarities.

  • Dionysus was the god of fertility and wine and was considered to have a dual nature. On the one hand bringing joy and devine ecstasy the other being brutal, unthinking, rage. Thus, reflecting both sides of wine’s nature. If he chose to, Dionysus could drive a man mad.
  • Dionysus is closely associated with the concept of rebirth. This is because he was born from his mother, sewn into his father’s thigh, and then reborn from the thigh. Rumpel’s rebirth was not out of a leg but rather he was reborn in the black goo.
  • After his birth, Dionysus was raised by nymphs. Rumpel was raised by spinsters.
  • In Greek Mythology, Dionysus was the one that gave Midas the power of his golden touch. Once Upon a Time has not explained how King Midas got his golden touch, but I think it’s safe to say Rumpel had something to do with it.
  • In some versions of the myth, Dionysus was the father of the god Pan. This one is a little backwards.
  • Dionysus was later married to Ariadne. In some versions of the myth, Ariadne ran away with Theseus after Ariadne was already married to Dionysus. Theseus was the son of Poseidon, god of the sea, and was a known sailor. Theseus has strong comparisons to Hook and the fact that his father was Poseidon plays strongly with the idea that Hook’s father might be Davy Jones.
  • Also found this interesting but some myths say that Persephone was Dionysus’s half sister. Persephone, the queen of the underworld, was also known by the name Kore. The English translation being, Cora.

This picture was also used in the episode Manhattan in Regina’s bedroom. Prop department has to get the most out of it I suppose.

— Joel

 

Purple smoke around Regina and Snow (3x18 Bleeding Through)tdm23-182

The second piece of art is also by Bernard Picart depicts the story of Pygmalion.

Pygmalion was a sculptor who carved a woman out of ivory and named her Galatea. The myth says he was not interested in any of the local women but his statue was so fair and realistic that he fell in love with it. In time, Aphrodite’s festival day came, and Pygmalion made offerings at the altar of Aphrodite. There, too scared to admit his desire, he quietly wished for a bride who would be “the living likeness of my ivory girl”. When he returned home, he kissed his ivory statue and found that its lips felt warm. He kissed it again and found that the ivory had lost its hardness. Aphrodite had granted Pygmalion’s wish. Pygmalion married the ivory sculpture changed to a woman under Aphrodite’s blessing.

— Joel

Do they really have enough time to defeat Zelena or are they too late to stop the Wicked Witch? Is being united against Zelena enough to keep her from going back in time? Is Regina’s resilient heart enough to defeat her sister? With only four episodes left before the season finale, where could the story still go? Share your thoughts by filling in the comment section below or join us over the forum to share your theories regarding “Bleeding Through.”

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Spoilers

  • Episode 19, “A Curious Thing” was written by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz and directed by Ralph Hemecker.
  • Zelena threatens to kill Henry.
  • Things will begin to heat up between Robin Hood and Regina.
  • We get to finally see Glinda the Good Witch of the South!
  • “A Curious Thing” features Sunny Mabrey as Glinda.
  • Sarah Bolger, Julian Morris, Leroy Arenberg, Beverley Elliott and Christopher Gauthier are back to reprise their roles as Aurora, Prince Phillip, Leroy/Grumpy, Granny and Smee.
  • From the promo, Glinda is seen in silver dress but doesn’t know whether her magic is strong enough
  • It seems they are back in Oz.
  • The curse seemed to be cast by an unlikely source. Did Glinda herself cast it, sacrificing Dorothy (or herself) in the process?
  • Or did Rumple and Neal cast it themselves?
  • Aurora and Phillip are coming back, probably to explain what Zelena exactly wants with Snow and Charming’s baby.
  • Zelena is also seen touching Snow’s belly.
  • In the present, Zelena talking about how she needs to start killing people.
  • It looks like Zelena might be holding on to Henry, after which a bright white light and fire is seen around her
  • Chances are CaptainSwan MIGHT get another kiss.
  • For next week’s episode, Kansas, Entertainment Weekly showed the first sneak peek of the Royal Baby, which is going to be a boy.
  • TVLine just came out with a small preview that we’re probably going to see Dorothy in 3×20; there is a picture of a girl in a white and blue checkered dress, talking to Glinda.
  • Zelena and Glinda are both wearing the big necklace but they are white.
  • The girl is also seen talking to a de-greenified Zelena
  • Anastasia Griffith, the actress who plays Princess Abigail, is also coming back for a future episode.

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  • Jesse

    The Summer Palace is where Snow White and Prince Charming had their honeymoon in the flashback in Episode 3.10: The New Neverland. It is not King Leopold’s or Regina’s ‘pointy castle.’ It is just a getaway that King Leopold had built for Queen Eva.

    • http://DanielJLewis.net/about Daniel J. Lewis

      Ah, yes! Thank you, Jesse!

      • Jesse

        Sure! Loved the podcast – especially the ‘Love Is an Open Door’ clip. :)

  • CharmediAm

    Snow and Charming’s baby being the baby of both worlds is a stroke of genius and possible because Wicked (the musical) has already done it. Only with Wicked, it was Elphaba (the Wicked Witch of the West) who was considered as the baby of both worlds. Plus, in the musical, instead of being conceived and born in two different worlds, it was Elphaba’s mother and biological father (The Wizard) who were from two different worlds – Elphaba’s mother from Oz, and The Wizard, well, from our world. This is the reason why Elphaba was so powerful she doesn’t need to attend Madam Morrible’s seminar on witchcraft and wizardry (but she did anyway to hone her skills, perhaps). Magic came naturally for Elphaba, whereas Galinda/Glinda, while also intelligent enough to be accepted at Shiz, was not as powerful as Elphaba and even had to learn it herself. Glinda only became the most powerful witch in Oz once the Wizard left and the Wicked Witch defeated (or should I say, escaped).

    I mentioned this (the Wicked part) because this can be a path the show may go. Maybe Zelena wants the baby so much because she knows how powerful it is, enough even to take her back in time so she can change the past? Rumple said that she has already “deciphered the laws of magic” so maybe only a baby of both worlds has the power to do that.

    Also, Daniel, you forgot to mention King George’s kingdom. In the Pilot episode, when Snow said “Let’s take back the kingdom” she was referring to King George’s right? Or was it hers/Regina’s? Wonder where it’s located (King George’s)?

    • http://DanielJLewis.net/about Daniel J. Lewis

      I didn’t mention King George’s kingdom because it wasn’t relevant to this conversation about Cora’s locations.

  • Guest

    I was really surprised to hear none of you were familiar with Liberace, especially after the huge HBO movie last year, “Behind the Candelabra” starring Michael Douglas and Matt Damon.
    http://www.hbo.com/movies/behind-the-candelabra#/

    • http://DanielJLewis.net/about Daniel J. Lewis

      That would’ve been awesome to share if you emailed us beforehand.Faithfully,
      Daniel J. Lewis
      Grow your podcast from average to amazing! http://PodcastMasterClass.com

      • Karen Robichaud

        How would I have emailed you beforehand? I didn’t know you were going to talk about Liberace until I listened to the episode.

        • http://DanielJLewis.net/about Daniel J. Lewis

          We share the feedback information in every podcast episode and we welcome any theories and easter eggs you find.

  • Phee

    Regarding Zelena’s role in Neal’s death, when she interrupted the wake she said: “Did I miss the speeches? Shall I make one? I am, after all, responsible.”

    And yes Jeremy, what Neal did WAS dumb, and given his life experience with dark magic, it was ridiculously out of character to have him do what he did, which is why so many Neal fans are so angry over how they assassinated his character in more ways than one.

  • TimeSpacer

    Great podcast. I liked the description of Zelena’s trunk but I don’t think the “WBS” refers to Warner Brothers; the Wizard of Oz movie was released by MGM, not Warner Brothers. Maybe the initials refer to someone affiliated with the show who lives at or near the address given.

    • OnceABeliever

      In regards to the chest, with the initials on it, why is it not Walshs? I mean she prolly took his stuff when she turned him in to a monkey, so that just seems the most probable in my head…