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The person who answered the above question, also pointed out that comparing Rumbelle & SF doesnt make sense, as they are so different in intent- the closest thing to SF is Rumple/Milah – here’s the link (the gif set shows uncanny parallels & it really struck me how often the show has directly paralleled CS with Snowing & SF with Rumple/Milah- from lines of dialogue, to situation/choices)
http://anti–swanfire.tumblr.com/post/95157957496/rumsy4-obisgirl-boyfriendhook
Also I think part of the problem with SwanFire is that Neal didn’t get a lot of screentime in his own right. Screwball Ninja has a fantastic essay on Neal and screentime. http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/76569212095/whats-the-deal-with-neal-or-why-nealfire-gets
I wrote my own answer to that question in the SF thread:
I think the answer to your question comes down to screentime and more specifically Rumple and Emma got a lot more screentime than Belle and Neal did respectively. With Rumple and Emma being the more prominent character in their respective relationships (though hopefully Belle’s screentime will continue to grow throughout season 4), the audience is more likely to take their side if that makes sense. For example, the audience has got to know Rumple pretty well over the last 3 seasons, more so than Belle who we don’t know much about prior to Skin Deep. Therefore when Rumple screws up and he’s really sorry about it, the audience wants Belle to forgive him and reunite with Rumple even though they acknowledge Belle has every right to be angry at him but still, they want RumBelle to kiss and make up.
With SwanFire, Emma was the more prominent character in that relationship therefore the audience is going to take her side. In Emma’s view, Neal abandoned her and left her to go to prison and had a negative view of him therefore the audience sides with Emma rather than Neal. Lack of screentime has been Neal’s enemy from the start. In fact Screwball Ninja has a brilliant essay on Neal and the lack of screentime.
The same thing is probably going to happen with OutlawQueen. Regina has had more screentime than Robin and Marian put together, therefore the audience is more likely to side with Regina in that scenario. Most people are convinced that Marian is going to end up dead again which is a shame, but the audience has been led to sympathise with Regina over Marian so they want Regina to get what she wants.
[adrotate group="5"]All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThe person who answered the above question, also pointed out that comparing Rumbelle & SF doesnt make sense, as they are so different in intent- the closest thing to SF is Rumple/Milah – here’s the link (the gif set shows uncanny parallels & it really struck me how often the show has directly paralleled CS with Snowing & SF with Rumple/Milah- from lines of dialogue, to situation/choices)
http://anti–swanfire.tumblr.com/post/95157957496/rumsy4-obisgirl-boyfriendhook
Those are very interesting parallels and actually add another dimension to SwanFire: Neal was playing out his parents’ marriage subconsciously.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI wrote a long meta about Neal/Bae’s episodes since their debut. It’s never been posted but the gist that I found in writing that meta, the build-up on Neal’s character relied heavily on his past with Rumple and the stand-alone Neal episodes, like Tallahassee and Quiet Minds where we got flashbacks of him, were either Emma centric or Rumple centric episodes. Tallahassee was Emma’s backstory; it was to help us understand Emma’s issues and Quiet Minds, for the most part, was a semi-Rumple centric episode (to explain why Rumple was crazy when we first saw him again in 3B). Neal has never really had a stand-alone episode to fill in the missing gaps in his history without the interference of other characters.
Questions like, when did he leave Neverland and get back to our world? How long was he back in our world when he met Emma?
What was his job in New York when we saw him in Broken (you need a job in New York in order to live in an apartment and pay rent).
I would have liked to have known how Neal felt about his father murdering his mother. We know how young Bae felt when he learned the truth but we never once saw a confrontation in Storybrooke between adult Neal and Rumple over what happened to his mom.The conclusion I came to in writing that was never posted, is that the character of Neal was never meant to be an important character outside his relationships with his father and Emma. From his time with Emma, we understand why she has trust issues and his relationship with his father, why Rumple did what he did to enact the curse.
The person who answered the above question, also pointed out that comparing Rumbelle & SF doesnt make sense, as they are so different in intent- the closest thing to SF is Rumple/Milah – here’s the link (the gif set shows uncanny parallels & it really struck me how often the show has directly paralleled CS with Snowing & SF with Rumple/Milah- from lines of dialogue, to situation/choices)
http://anti–swanfire.tumblr.com/post/95157957496/rumsy4-obisgirl-boyfriendhook
Also I think part of the problem with SwanFire is that Neal didn’t get a lot of screentime in his own right. Screwball Ninja has a fantastic essay on Neal and screentime. http://screwballninja.tumblr.com/post/76569212095/whats-the-deal-with-neal-or-why-nealfire-gets
I wrote my own answer to that question in the SF thread:
I think the answer to your question comes down to screentime and more specifically Rumple and Emma got a lot more screentime than Belle and Neal did respectively. With Rumple and Emma being the more prominent character in their respective relationships (though hopefully Belle’s screentime will continue to grow throughout season 4), the audience is more likely to take their side if that makes sense. For example, the audience has got to know Rumple pretty well over the last 3 seasons, more so than Belle who we don’t know much about prior to Skin Deep. Therefore when Rumple screws up and he’s really sorry about it, the audience wants Belle to forgive him and reunite with Rumple even though they acknowledge Belle has every right to be angry at him but still, they want RumBelle to kiss and make up.
With SwanFire, Emma was the more prominent character in that relationship therefore the audience is going to take her side. In Emma’s view, Neal abandoned her and left her to go to prison and had a negative view of him therefore the audience sides with Emma rather than Neal. Lack of screentime has been Neal’s enemy from the start. In fact Screwball Ninja has a brilliant essay on Neal and the lack of screentime.
The same thing is probably going to happen with OutlawQueen. Regina has had more screentime than Robin and Marian put together, therefore the audience is more likely to side with Regina in that scenario. Most people are convinced that Marian is going to end up dead again which is a shame, but the audience has been led to sympathise with Regina over Marian so they want Regina to get what she wants.
Very good point & it definitely plays a part in I think.
You’ve kind of tempted me with what the SF feel about it – but not enough to brave the storm over there lol 😉The person who answered the above question, also pointed out that comparing Rumbelle & SF doesnt make sense, as they are so different in intent- the closest thing to SF is Rumple/Milah – here’s the link (the gif set shows uncanny parallels & it really struck me how often the show has directly paralleled CS with Snowing & SF with Rumple/Milah- from lines of dialogue, to situation/choices)
http://anti–swanfire.tumblr.com/post/95157957496/rumsy4-obisgirl-boyfriendhook
Those are very interesting parallels and actually add another dimension to SwanFire: Neal was playing out his parents’ marriage subconsciously.
Yes, I thought so as well.
Neal has never really had a stand-alone episode to fill in the missing gaps in his history without the interference of other characters.
Yes exactly & that’s why I find it so odd that some people have placed so much importance on him as a stand alone character to the story. Neal has almost been treated as a pawn in fleshing out Rumple & Emma’s back stories since he was introduced in S2.
The conclusion I came to in writing that was never posted, is that the character of Neal was never meant to be an important character outside his relationships with his father and Emma. From his time with Emma, we understand why she has trust issues and his relationship with his father, why Rumple did what he did to enact the curse.
Should have finished reading your post before quoting part of it lol 😉 Yep, 100% agree with your assessment… also wish like crazy those questions got answered *sigh*
Comments from tumblr:
Man could have run off and tried to get his revenge. Could have done anything he liked, high on pain medication as he clearly is. And what does he do? Go chasing down Emma Swan to show her the weird thing he found. “SWAN! SWAN! SWAN! I BROUGHT YOU A THING! LOOK! IT JIGGLES!!!!!”
Will never not amuse me. You literally did some sort of voodoo on the cuffs to get free, and instead of making a break for it, you go SEEKING OUT the woman who cuffed you in the first place. Boyfriend, your feels are showing and you aren’t even TRYING to hide them.
I think he has a thing for getting Emma to handcuff him to things…S4…bring back the freakin handcuffs!!!
What’s also funny is that Hook thinks Jello has medicinal properties. He understands very few things about our world but jello to him, is medicine. Mark my words, if Emma were sick with the flu or morning sickness, the first thing Hook would bring her is a bowl of jello because he thinks it’ll make her feel better. And I appreciate how the writers kept this affinity for jello in the show by showing him bring Neal jello in 3×15.
As many have stated already, my feeling about Neal is that he was created for Rumple and his main and most important relationship was with his father and their struggles with cowardice, and their history of abandonment that plagued both of them. It was always a father/son tale and journey. To the very end, father/son. Always. Rumple/Bae…Neal/Henry.
I feel that Emma’s connection to Neal was created to show how Emma became so emotionally hard and distrustful and why her walls were so damaging to her life. Their most tangible and hopeful creation was, of course, Henry. And he brought full circle the connection to Rumple. Without the bloodline ties with Henry, there wouldn’t be the soul searching of Rumple to redeem himself. (Aside from the irresistible fantasy, this is mostly a story of family relationships and struggles…fathers and sons, mothers and daughters, mothers and sons, fathers and daughters etc. etc. The love relationships are the oh-so-sweet icing.)
Emma and Neal’s journey ended, for most intents and purposes, when he abandoned her first TO jail, then afterward when he still didn’t have the courage to be accountable for his past actions. Running away from his father and their history was always far more important than how he had run away from Emma.
One other intent and purpose was to show the huge difference between Hook’s relationship with her compared to Neal’s. Hook refused to give up on her and desert her once he realized what she was struggling against. Indeed, the issues tormenting her reflected his own emotional walls in “cause”. Pain from a failed love caused both of them to live in emotional turmoil and grief. Once he loved her, it didn’t matter what he had to give up or risk. He would not abandon her. He chose loyalty and devotion. Polar opposite of Neal.
Tallahassee to me was a clear cut comparison of the end of Neal and Emma and the start of Emma and Hook.
There really is, in my mind, no comparing Rumple and Belle with Emma and Neal. Belle refuses to give up on Rumple and Neal gave up easily on Emma. Love is Rumple and Bell’s connection. Henry was Neal’s to Emma.
***Always in search of a good flock***
I agree with ALL of that @bo-peeps I think most people think of Neal’s introduction in Tallahassee, as another potential suitor for Emma but really, Tallahassee isn’t about that at all. It’s about Emma’s issues and why she has them and also, to contrast these two relationships she has with them. I never had a doubt in my mind that Emma would end up with Hook. And I think Jen’s interviews for season three cemented why she was going to end up with Hook and not Neal.
You’ve kind of tempted me with what the SF feel about it – but not enough to brave the storm over there lol
You do get some genuinely interesting opinions and posts in the SF thread. However there are some tumblr posts that appear there that do just make you facepalm and laugh because of the stupidity especially the one about Hook coming out of a strip club.
And then there are some tumblr posts that are genuinely funny like the Zelena nominating Hook for the ice bucket challenge one.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
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